67443 réponses à ce sujet

[leighzard]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

N7 scarf? Sounds awesome!

You lucky duckies all have things to occupy you in the coming months! I've been doing a lot of writing in my spare time, but I doubt that will help ease the pain of the two month wait. And I'm still trying to write a Mass Effect fanfic, but I just can't seem to get the right...feel, for lack of a better word.

Along with that, I'm trying to make a circlet for my Comic Con costume. Trust me, I understand where your frustration is coming from leborum Tin sheets, metal epoxy, crystal beads, steel wiring, metallic paint...this seemed so much easier in my head.

Edit: Just read that article, Crimson, and that's awful! Makes me worried about using an Xbox, especially since I sometimes won't use my account for months on end. At the very least, I'm glad the default credit card on there is expired...

Wow, that sounds exponentially more complicated than a scarf.  I feel lucky all I have to do is unravel some yarn every now and again.   What's your costume?  It sounds pretty and sparkly, which is always a plus.

I haven't had an ME dream since around Christmas.  And it was kindof disappointing.  Well, with demo arriving in a few weeks, I won't have to dream any more!


Edit: Almost ToP
For Sorrow...
http://kaidan-alenko...t.com/#/d3jca68
Kaiduck by evilsherbear

Modifié par leborum, 12 janvier 2012 - 01:16 .

[syllogi]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's an article I think might interest this thread:

The VS romance arc: an analysis, by someone named "Tropulastic".

Careful, the article contains spoilers.

The guy has good intentions, but I think he's giving the writers way too much credit when it comes to their thought process in regards to Horizon. They wanted players who romanced the ME1 LIs to move on to ME2 LIs, plain and simple. We're talking about writers who admitted that they didn't even consider the ramifications of making everyone expendable on the suicide mission. They may have had some vague plan to bring the VS back in ME3, but they didn't plan it very well. 

While I enjoyed ME2 for what it was, as the second part of a love story between Shepard and the VS, it failed miserably. 

[txmn1016]

leborum wrote...

Obsessively checking the internets for new ME3 info (slows time down), playing Bioshock (time neutral), replaying ME1 for moar Kaidanz (also slows time down), and... knitting ascarf! (speeds time, but adds +10 frustration penalty).  It will be rad.  It's an N7 armor stripe scarf.

And yes, I just said "rad"

Sounds like an awesome idea to speed up the time!  Might have to think of some other ME knitting project....:innocent:

[Ieldra]

syllogi wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Here's an article I think might interest this thread:

The VS romance arc: an analysis, by someone named "Tropulastic".

Careful, the article contains spoilers.

The guy has good intentions, but I think he's giving the writers way too much credit when it comes to their thought process in regards to Horizon. They wanted players who romanced the ME1 LIs to move on to ME2 LIs, plain and simple. We're talking about writers who admitted that they didn't even consider the ramifications of making everyone expendable on the suicide mission. They may have had some vague plan to bring the VS back in ME3, but they didn't plan it very well. 

While I enjoyed ME2 for what it was, as the second part of a love story between Shepard and the VS, it failed miserably.

I didn't say I necessary agree with that article, only that it's interesting. And in fact, Casey Hudson did say (in that pre-ME2-release chat linked) the romance was told in three acts and ME2 featured the second. Also, I don't think adding a dramatic downturn to the VS romance in ME2 was a bad idea as such, only the execution failed because it came across as character derailment, especially in Kaidan's case.

In the same pre-ME2-release chat, Casey Hudson admitted that the possibility of characters being killed would make things difficult. So in some way they did know, it's just that they probably didn't anticipate exactly how difficult things might become, especially with a bunch of 12. 

I don't know what to think about Bioware's writers. I tend to oscillate between thinking we give them too much credit and thinking we give them too little. Well, ME2 will make the picture clearer...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:17 .

[shepskisaac]

Klace wrote...

If Kaidan was a S/S Romance, I'd actually be tempted to roll a Male Shepard.

Less than 2 months till we find out :O:O *fingers crossed*

[Tropulous]

Well, I'm glad that you found my analysis interesting . By the way, I'm a girl

Now that some days have passed since I wrote that, I have to say I'm not too proud of the way some conclusions came out. I was rather tired of writing at that point, and I didn't fully flesh out some ideas in my head before setting out to explain them. So yeah, I'll have to remember that if I ever write a similar analysis again.

As for Horizon... you know, I remember this one series where a character did something that seemingly went against an entire season of character development; there was much fan rage and much writer bashing and much fanfic writing about "how it should have been done, dammit". Then the next season came around and hey, everything eventually made sense! It was very satisfying when it did, and it taught me that sometimes writers do things like that, and that sometimes we are too rash in judging things when we don't have the full picture.

I'm aware that Mass Effect is a different situation, and I know that the writers could have borked the execution of the VS storyline too much to save it. I'll give them all the credit they deserve when I play ME3 and I get the full picture, but for now, it's just that I prefer to remain hopeful that things will eventually make sense. Once ME3 comes around, if they do, then it will be pretty awesome. If they don't, hopefully the rest of the game will keep me too distracted to care. In any case, I prefer not to worry about it for now.

(Sorry for the intrusion. Sometimes I lurk this thread because hey, shirtlessness, but haven't found much discussion that interested me enough to post. Since I found my analysis was mentioned in the first post, I decided to chime in.)

Modifié par Tropulous, 12 janvier 2012 - 03:30 .

[sesheta255]

Tropulous wrote...

Well, I'm glad that you found my analysis interesting . By the way, I'm a girl

Now that some days have passed since I wrote that, I have to say I'm not too proud of the way some conclusions came out. I was rather tired of writing at that point, and I didn't fully flesh out some ideas in my head before setting out to explain them. So yeah, I'll have to remember that if I ever write a similar analysis again.

As for Horizon... you know, I remember this one series where a character did something that seemingly went against an entire season of character development; there was much fan rage and much writer bashing and much fanfic writing about "how it should have been done, dammit". Then the next season came around and hey, everything eventually made sense! It was very satisfying when it did, and it taught me that sometimes writers do things like that, and that sometimes we are too rash in judging things when we don't have the full picture.

I'm aware that Mass Effect is a different situation, and I know that the writers could have borked the execution of the VS storyline too much to save it. I'll give them all the credit they deserve when I play ME3 and I get the full picture, but for now, it's just that I prefer to remain hopeful that things will eventually make sense. Once ME3 comes around, if they do, then it will be pretty awesome. If they don't, hopefully the rest of the game will keep me too distracted to care. In any case, I prefer not to worry about it for now.

(Sorry for the intrusion. Sometimes I lurk this thread because hey, shirtlessness, but haven't found much discussion that interested me enough to post. Since I found my analysis was mentioned in the first post, I decided to chime in.)

I think the problem with Horizon is not so much that Kaidan (in this thread anyway, lol) was out of character, but rather Shepard taking derp pills before talking to him, and the cookie cutter approach Bioware took to the VS, 2 very different people in terms of attitude, experience, and reactions.  It's quite in character for Kaidan to refuse to join Shepard, although it can be argued that it's also in character for him to hear Shepard out.  The writing was on the wall in ME1 when Kaidan told Shepard he wouldn't be there if he didn't agree with what she was doing.  I actually like the fact that someone stood up to Shepard rather than falling to their knees and kissing her feet.

I really think Bioware expected everyone to throw Kaidan aside for the new shiny LI's in ME2.  Not only did they paint themselves into a corner with the sheer amount of LI/squadmates that could die in ME2 but they underestimated the popularity of the VS, especially Kaidan. 

[shepskisaac]

My opinion's the same. Not so much of a VS problem (although they REALLY could've written their lines differently, considering how microscopic their cameo was anyway) but Shep being railroaded into acting like a 'thehe wut?' idiot. I'm not even sure why was it necessary. VS couldn't/wouldn't join Cerberus anyway, I mean, the fact that they're Alliance is enough of a good reason why they couldn't. But I guess BW felt it wasn't good enough

Modifié par IsaacShep, 12 janvier 2012 - 03:56 .

[syllogi]

Tropulous wrote...

Well, I'm glad that you found my analysis interesting . By the way, I'm a girl

Now that some days have passed since I wrote that, I have to say I'm not too proud of the way some conclusions came out. I was rather tired of writing at that point, and I didn't fully flesh out some ideas in my head before setting out to explain them. So yeah, I'll have to remember that if I ever write a similar analysis again.

As for Horizon... you know, I remember this one series where a character did something that seemingly went against an entire season of character development; there was much fan rage and much writer bashing and much fanfic writing about "how it should have been done, dammit". Then the next season came around and hey, everything eventually made sense! It was very satisfying when it did, and it taught me that sometimes writers do things like that, and that sometimes we are too rash in judging things when we don't have the full picture.

I'm aware that Mass Effect is a different situation, and I know that the writers could have borked the execution of the VS storyline too much to save it. I'll give them all the credit they deserve when I play ME3 and I get the full picture, but for now, it's just that I prefer to remain hopeful that things will eventually make sense. Once ME3 comes around, if they do, then it will be pretty awesome. If they don't, hopefully the rest of the game will keep me too distracted to care. In any case, I prefer not to worry about it for now.

(Sorry for the intrusion. Sometimes I lurk this thread because hey, shirtlessness, but haven't found much discussion that interested me enough to post. Since I found my analysis was mentioned in the first post, I decided to chime in.)

Not an intrusion at all, and sorry for assuming you're a guy!  (You know, no females on the internet and all...)

I didn't want to respond in your own thread about your VS romance analysis, because I am definitely bitter and biased, due to feeling "cheated" in ME2.  I did get over it enough to enjoy the game, but as far as I'm concerned, they missed a huge opportunity to continue the VS romance, as evidenced by how Liara was treated in LotSB.  Thus, as far as I'm concerned, everything rests on ME3.  I've read all the spoilers, and I have my opinions, but I don't want to judge before I've seen it in game.  Hopefully I'll feel differently then, but right now, I still believe that the writers don't know what to do with the VS, Kaidan especially.  They know that some people like him, but I really didn't get the feeling that they know *why* we like him.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, and I don't want to discuss spoilers here.  I just don't think the devs should get a pass for ignoring a huge opportunity to create a satisfyingly epic second act for the VS's romance.  It's not the end of the world, and other than Liara, nobody is getting a real romance arc that spans all three games, so realistically, I shouldn't have expected that much, but I'm not going to hold my breath for a thrilling conclusion to the VS romance, when the last game left me so little hope.

[Fault Girl]

I love Bioware but I sometimes think that Horizon was an oversight, like they had forgotten about the VS. Even in the ME2 beginning they dressed Kaidan in pheonix armour. But I think ME3 will be awesome and cant wait to continue the romance with Kaidan.

[Tropulous]

Good enough then. We'll see how everything turns out in ME3. As I said, I've seen this kind of thing pulled off successfully in the past, and I think Bioware could pull it off here, so I prefer to remain hopeful

In any case, there will be plenty of Kaidan content in ME3, so that will be good

[Trinity Shep]

yoshibb wrote...

I have ME3 dreams a lot. It's horrible when I wake up and realize the game isn't out yet and I have to wait another two months.

Broke down and started replaying Mass Effect. I wanted to hold off until the end of February, but I literally have nothing to do, not even work right now. I love the first one, but the second still bugs me. Sad that I've really only played through it once. I just don't like the pace, the predictability, most of the squad members bore me. I finished ME tonight and I'm gonna start ME2 tomorrow. I still do love the beginning and end of ME2, it's just all the crap in the middle that bugs me.

I agree i feel the same way! ME2 feels too much like work, not play.. all the scanning, all the loyality missions, thats whats stopping me from making another character to play through ME, cause than i have to go through ME2 for the 8th time...

[shepskisaac]

Trinity Shep wrote...

I agree i feel the same way! ME2 feels too much like work, not play.. all the scanning, all the loyality missions, thats whats stopping me from making another character to play through ME, cause than i have to go through ME2 for the 8th time...

I will still have to go through ME2 at least one lol... Not even done yet with my second ME1 playthrough. No idea when I'm gonna pull it off, I'm busy these days, got the Sbarge gift to finish and other stuff. Guess I'll probably just end up importing my 1 ME2 save I have, with all the little things I missed in it

[Trinity Shep]

IsaacShep wrote...

Trinity Shep wrote...

I agree i feel the same way! ME2 feels too much like work, not play.. all the scanning, all the loyality missions, thats whats stopping me from making another character to play through ME, cause than i have to go through ME2 for the 8th time...

I will still have to go through ME2 at least one lol... Not even done yet with my second ME1 playthrough. No idea when I'm gonna pull it off, I'm busy these days, got the Sbarge gift to finish and other stuff. Guess I'll probably just end up importing my 1 ME2 save I have, with all the little things I missed in it

Im gonna wait, i was thinking of making another Shep but i decided ill play ME3 first cause i know im going to want to play them all over again after that anyways!

[JaerWolfe]

Ieldra2 wrote...
snip

I don't know what to think about Bioware's writers. I tend to oscillate between thinking we give them too much credit and thinking we give them too little. Well, ME2 will make the picture clearer...

I'll bite on this comment since I make no secret of my disdain for Mac Walters writing abilities, although I will be the first to say I brush him with a very wide, liberal brush. Mr Walters does one character very well and he has proved quite successful at it. Wrex in ME1, the bad ass merc. When Wrex was not available for ME2 due to reasons of possible death, Mr Walters transferred his skills to Garrus who became a bad ass merc. He's also responsible for Aria, whom I personally find trite and cliched, but others like. In ME3, we will be introduced to James Vega, the bad ass soldier. It's a source of bemusement to me that a medium Mr Walters should excell in...comic books...he struggles with. I believe it is because when it comes to an overall plot arc, he is at a loss of what to do. His strength lies in the character who is abrasive, the in your face, take no prisoners sort. The character of Kaidan is the antithesis of the characters Mr Walters excells at and it shows. It showed on Horizon. It showed in the Genesis comic that I loathe. My biggest fear has always been that it will continue to show in ME3.

So...the overall romance arc. I both agree and disagree with the summary and I appreciate the points in it that made me pause and consider. I think an abstract idea of an overall romance was conceived of but that it lost itself in the execution..in other words, the idea was there but the details of how to do it were never properly considered. I will be generous and say I believe that it lost its importance during the development of ME2 when resources were needed more for gameplay and even other characters. First and foremost, Mass Effect is a video game and I give it allowances as such.

TL/DR: I think that if Kaidan had had a consistent writer from ME1 to ME3 the romance arc could have been pulled off more successfully.

[thelele]

sesheta255 wrote...

I really think Bioware expected everyone to throw Kaidan aside for the new shiny LI's in ME2.  Not only did they paint themselves into a corner with the sheer amount of LI/squadmates that could die in ME2 but they underestimated the popularity of the VS, especially Kaidan. 

I think so too. In fact, here's what Casey said from that same chat that was linked in that essay:

CaseyH-ME2: To Guest-552 One thing I'm really excited to see is the achievement data that will show how faithful players are to their ME1 love interest. And the best part is, even though I expect most (almost all?) players will cheat on their ME1 love interest, that decision too will come back to haunt them in the next game!

So yeah. I still really enjoy Tropulous's article; it's really well written. But I agree with others that Bioware totally failed with Horizon. For the Ash and Kaidan in the third game, I want at least to remain hopeful about one thing. well, semi-hopeful >_>

[Sialater]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
snip

I don't know what to think about Bioware's writers. I tend to oscillate between thinking we give them too much credit and thinking we give them too little. Well, ME2 will make the picture clearer...

I'll bite on this comment since I make no secret of my disdain for Mac Walters writing abilities, although I will be the first to say I brush him with a very wide, liberal brush. Mr Walters does one character very well and he has proved quite successful at it. Wrex in ME1, the bad ass merc. When Wrex was not available for ME2 due to reasons of possible death, Mr Walters transferred his skills to Garrus who became a bad ass merc. He's also responsible for Aria, whom I personally find trite and cliched, but others like. In ME3, we will be introduced to James Vega, the bad ass soldier. It's a source of bemusement to me that a medium Mr Walters should excell in...comic books...he struggles with. I believe it is because when it comes to an overall plot arc, he is at a loss of what to do. His strength lies in the character who is abrasive, the in your face, take no prisoners sort. The character of Kaidan is the antithesis of the characters Mr Walters excells at and it shows. It showed on Horizon. It showed in the Genesis comic that I loathe. My biggest fear has always been that it will continue to show in ME3.

So...the overall romance arc. I both agree and disagree with the summary and I appreciate the points in it that made me pause and consider. I think an abstract idea of an overall romance was conceived of but that it lost itself in the execution..in other words, the idea was there but the details of how to do it were never properly considered. I will be generous and say I believe that it lost its importance during the development of ME2 when resources were needed more for gameplay and even other characters. First and foremost, Mass Effect is a video game and I give it allowances as such.

TL/DR: I think that if Kaidan had had a consistent writer from ME1 to ME3 the romance arc could have been pulled off more successfully.

This.  Though I'm reserving a little more judgement till the final product's in my hands.  And now... back to working on Paragon since Kaidan's finally speaking.

[mineralica]

Tropulous wrote...

Good enough then. We'll see how everything turns out in ME3. As I said, I've seen this kind of thing pulled off successfully in the past, and I think Bioware could pull it off here, so I prefer to remain hopeful

In any case, there will be plenty of Kaidan content in ME3, so that will be good

You know, I doubt that any amount of Kaidan content will be "plenty" for me... hopeless addict, what to say:P

Modifié par mineralica, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:45 .

[yoshibb]

I have no problem with drama and turmoil in ME2. In fact, I find stories about that are the most interesting. The problem is that it's kind of obvious they half assed it. I didn't feel anger at Kaidan or Shepard, I was angry at Bioware. They really could've done the whole thing so much better. I've seen what their writers can do. I still get chills at the end of Mass Effect. I have never played any other game more than twice and yet I can count at least 7 or 8 playthroughs for ME.

So when I look at ME2 and people expect me to believe that Horizon was the best they could do to create "drama" I find it hilarious. Again no problem with Kaidan telling me he couldn't follow me under Ceberus and no problem with their relationship being strained and broken after two years and Shepard basically coming back from the dead.

The problem lies with how the scene plays out. With questions like "OMG, why didn't you call me?" it is just ridiculous.

That said from what a glanced over in the gameinformer, I am in love with what they are doing there and I can't wait to see that play out in ME3. I think that's how drama and conflict should be displayed. Part of me hates myself for reading it cause I think I would've loved the surprise in person, but the other part is so starved for more ME.

I mean let's face it, we've waited four years for new Kaidan content. I haven't looked at the leaked script, but I've been dying to see it. I've waited so fricking long. Oh my gosh, why is this game still 53 days away!

[DarkPsylocke26]

Me I think the game will be good. People always complaining about it, and they think it won't be good, but I do agree they could have done Horzion better than they did.

[Mel M]

I left Kaiden behind to die on both my ME1 characters. :-(

[Sialater]

Mel M wrote...

I left Kaiden behind to die on both my ME1 characters. :-(

Not too late to replay. 

[leighzard]

mineralica wrote...
You know, I doubt that any amount of Kaidan content will be "plenty" for me... hopeless addict, what to say:P

QFT

I don't like Horizon and I've decided I really don't like talking about Horizon.  That said, I do like talking about writing!  And though I only read the spoiler free version of Topulous's analysis posted in the forums, I very much enjoyed it.  It's rare to see so much active thought put into to a comment on the internets these days (present company excluded, of course) and the wannabe English major in me enjoyed the comparison to form.  I also enjoyed - and had a good chuckle at - Jaer's comments re:Mac Walters.  Too bad Drew had other things to do this time around.

I'm still confident that I'll enjoy ME3, it's a video game after all, so even if the writing isn't my favorite of the series, I still get to shoot aliens.  And I'm sure that I'll enjoy the story the BioWare tells even if it doesn't fully conform the my expectations.  And you know, I look forward to it surprising me.  That's part of a good story after all.

@Mel - at the very least you can use the comic to save him if you don't want to replay ME1

Modifié par leborum, 12 janvier 2012 - 06:15 .

[JaerWolfe]

leborum wrote...

mineralica wrote...
You know, I doubt that any amount of Kaidan content will be "plenty" for me... hopeless addict, what to say:P

QFT

I don't like Horizon and I've decided I really don't like talking about Horizon.  That said, I do like talking about writing!  And though I only read the spoiler free version of Topulous's analysis posted in the forums, I very much enjoyed it.  It's rare to see so much active thought put into to a comment on the internets these days (present company excluded, of course) and the wannabe English major in me enjoyed the comparison to form.  I also enjoyed - and had a good chuckle at - Jaer's comments re:Mac Walters.  Too bad Drew had other things to do this time around.

I'm still confident that I'll enjoy ME3, it's a video game after all, so even if the writing isn't my favorite of the series, I still get to shoot aliens.  And I'm sure that I'll enjoy the story the BioWare tells even if it doesn't fully conform the my expectations.  And you know, I look forward to it surprising me.  That's part of a good story after all.

@Mel - at the very least you can use the comic to save him if you don't want to replay ME1

Drew is currently on my bad list because of Revan. If you're going to do a half-assed job, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't bother doing it. If you're going to kill off characters in lame and utterly insipid ways, please leave the ones I like the bloody hell alone.

[leighzard]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Drew is currently on my bad list because of Revan. If you're going to do a half-assed job, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't bother doing it. If you're going to kill off characters in lame and utterly insipid ways, please leave the ones I like the bloody hell alone.

That is... too bad. 
I haven't read it.  Actually, I'm just playing kotor for the first time right now (in between knitting scarves, of course).  I had to see what all the fuss over Carth was about.  Maybe I'll just skip the novel tie-ins, then.

Edit: ToP!

By Shoko

Modifié par leborum, 12 janvier 2012 - 06:40 .