67443 réponses à ce sujet

[kareatix]

MegaBadExample wrote...

In ME2 Liara didn't ditch everything for Shepard either. Her work came first as well.

Kinda this ^

In ME2 Liara was too busy with work AND plotting revenge. And about her not judging Shepard - well of course she didn't, she gave his/her body to Cerberus so it would be a bit weird if she did.

[Stardusk78]

ncvbrp wrote...

So you don't think Kaidan/Ashley could sacrifice themselves for Shepard? Even if it's player choice, Kaidan could've sacrificed himsefl on Virmire to save Shepard.

It remains to be seen but the fact is that in ME3 we will once again see how judgemental the VS is compared to Liara.

[mineralica]

dstrawberrygirl wrote...

Wow - customer service, I contacted EA about BDtS DLC and got a reply within 2 mins with a link. Suitably impressed! Consider my previous question out of date

Sorry, didn't answer because didn't know.

Which EA was that? Because I still haven't receive answer from EA Russia on my question about Warhammer Online which I sent shortly after it's release;)

[siriusrambles]

--jacqui wrote...
I'm telling ya'll before I email the link to the man himself:

fangeek.com/2012/02/02/raphael-sbarge-jennifer-hale-qa-3/

I think this is my favorite one so far.  Thanks so much to all three of you.


@lady winde - I'm bummed I missed out on your livestream, but I love the finished product.

[MegaBadExample]

Stardusk78 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Vault N7 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Hardly but I have openly said many times that Kaidan is vastly superior to Ashley in terms of tolerability. Admittedly it might be nice to have a Sentinel aboard but who knows? and whilst I somewhat idealise Liara I find it a testament to the human imagination how much females idealise Kaidan. Either way, the VS will never be capable of the same love that Liara shows Shepard and for all we know it might be a human limitation and not their fault.

If that's how you feel then that's fine But people love different types of love (if that makes sense). The VS may not have hunted Shepard's body down etc. But they do love Shepard, it may not be Romeo & Juliet love but it's a love.

Liara's love in my mind (even though I can see why people love it) is too obessive for me.

I just cant explain it very well sorry

You don't need to explain because I understand. People confuse obsessive with unconditional. Liara's love is as close to unconditional as can be, not obsessive.Real life love is usually judgemental, critical and all the other stuff the VS brings to the table. It is very obvious that when people prefer the VS love to Liara's they are taking real life expectations and perceptions and projecting them onto the game. Clearly in real life no one loves like Liara does and the 'forget you' and move on attitude of the VS is much more common and realistic, if not casual. For example, they will always prioritise their Alliance duties over Shepard whereas Liara would (likely) never do that. So at the end of the day, yes, Liara's love is 'unrealistic' and certainly fantastical but it is far more powerful and impactful (and I admit that might have something to do with the fact that she is an Asari).

In ME2 Liara didn't ditch everything for Shepard either. Her work came first as well.

Initially but prior to that she chased him down to get him back. More to the point, Liara doesn't judge Shepard, both VSs presume to lecture him and tell him what he is doing wrong.

Look at it this way, the VS never knew you came back. Usually you die that's it. Then WOW BAM! Shepard's right there, alive and breathing on Horizon allianced with an known enemy. What were they supposed to think? Wouldn't you think they would doubt every single thing in that moment? Wow this guy/gal is back from the dead? Did he/she really die? Tell me, what would be the human way to respond to that eh? 

As for Liara, she wasn't mad, because she always knew there was the possibility of Shepard returning.

[Eshaye]

mineralica wrote...

Vault, or Zombie, are troll brains tastier or what?

Stardusk, coffee what I promised today:

*snip*

Have a nice day, ladies and gentlemen.

MMMMmmmmm coffee and a Kaidan hug anyone??? That sounds nice. :innocent:



emedeme

Modifié par Eshaye, 03 février 2012 - 06:56 .

[Anassiel]

Stardusk78 wrote...

You don't need to explain because I understand. People confuse obsessive with unconditional. Liara's love is as close to unconditional as can be, not obsessive.

as this may make sense in your case, it doesn't apply to me, as she acts in the exactly same way toward a Shepard who didn't romance her. And when she's so loving in an "unconditional" way toward a person who mostly ignored or even mocked her when they met, it starts to appear as obsessive to me. Don't get me wrong, i don't hate her, i can understand that people can be attracted to her and most of my Sheps are relatively friendly, but she just doesn't appeal to me. 

[Stardusk78]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Vault N7 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Hardly but I have openly said many times that Kaidan is vastly superior to Ashley in terms of tolerability. Admittedly it might be nice to have a Sentinel aboard but who knows? and whilst I somewhat idealise Liara I find it a testament to the human imagination how much females idealise Kaidan. Either way, the VS will never be capable of the same love that Liara shows Shepard and for all we know it might be a human limitation and not their fault.

If that's how you feel then that's fine But people love different types of love (if that makes sense). The VS may not have hunted Shepard's body down etc. But they do love Shepard, it may not be Romeo & Juliet love but it's a love.

Liara's love in my mind (even though I can see why people love it) is too obessive for me.

I just cant explain it very well sorry

You don't need to explain because I understand. People confuse obsessive with unconditional. Liara's love is as close to unconditional as can be, not obsessive.Real life love is usually judgemental, critical and all the other stuff the VS brings to the table. It is very obvious that when people prefer the VS love to Liara's they are taking real life expectations and perceptions and projecting them onto the game. Clearly in real life no one loves like Liara does and the 'forget you' and move on attitude of the VS is much more common and realistic, if not casual. For example, they will always prioritise their Alliance duties over Shepard whereas Liara would (likely) never do that. So at the end of the day, yes, Liara's love is 'unrealistic' and certainly fantastical but it is far more powerful and impactful (and I admit that might have something to do with the fact that she is an Asari).

In ME2 Liara didn't ditch everything for Shepard either. Her work came first as well.

Initially but prior to that she chased him down to get him back. More to the point, Liara doesn't judge Shepard, both VSs presume to lecture him and tell him what he is doing wrong.

Look at it this way, the VS never knew you came back. Usually you die that's it. Then WOW BAM! Shepard's right there, alive and breathing on Horizon allianced with an known enemy. What were they supposed to think? Wouldn't you think they would doubt every single thing in that moment? Wow this guy/gal is back from the dead? Did he/she really die? Tell me, what would be the human way to respond to that eh? 

As for Liara, she wasn't mad, because she always knew there was the possibility of Shepard returning.

I agree, the VS has a human reaction. Liara loves Shepard more probably because she is NOT a human. But VS doesn't even give Shepard a chance to explain and just cuts him off, which is rude either way you cut it.

[kareatix]

Stardusk78 wrote...

I agree, the VS has a human reaction. Liara loves Shepard more probably because she is NOT a human. But VS doesn't even give Shepard a chance to explain and just cuts him off, which is rude either way you cut it.

I see what you're getting at, but I think you're assuming too much. We have no way of knowing how Liara would react in "horizon-ish" circumstances. If we want to find out how Liara would react in Kaidan's/Ashley's place, she would have to be put in their position - and Bioware is yet to put her in that position. Not sure if her being NOT human changes anything. It's a nice idea, but I don't see anything that would support it (and I haven't really noticed any ingame hints about Asari being capable of some "deeper" love than humans).

Modifié par kareatix, 03 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[Stardusk78]

kareatix wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

I agree, the VS has a human reaction. Liara loves Shepard more probably because she is NOT a human. But VS doesn't even give Shepard a chance to explain and just cuts him off, which is rude either way you cut it.

I see what you're getting at, but I think you're assuming too much. We have no way of knowing how Liara would react in "horizon-ish" circumstances. If we want to find out how Liara would react in Kaidan's/Ashley's place, she would have to be put in their position - and Bioware is yet to put her in that position. Not sure if her being NOT human changes anything. It's a nice idea, but I don't see anything that would support it (and I haven't really noticed any ingame hints about Asari being capable of some "deeper" love than humans).

Well the Asari 'melding/joining' is obviously a lot more powerful than the human penis in the hole deal. Clearly Asari and those they bond with are touched on a much deeper level. I freely admit that after ME3 we will have a much more complete picture of things but if the trend continues I think Liara will once again show stronger feelings for Shepard than the VS.

[MegaBadExample]

@Stardusk

You can't say that Liara loves Shepard more, just because she had nothing to do with herself and went out to search for Shepard's body. Ashley and Kaidan had jobs, roles, commitments - they couldn't do that. And even if they could, I don't think they would hand Shepard's body over to Cerberus for them to basically experiment on however they please. They would most likely do the right thing/normal thing and give Shepard a proper burial, mourn and say their goodbyes.

Ashley and Kaidan both love Shepard. That is it. They do, a lot. If you paid any attention you might know how much Shepard's death actually crushed them. They might not go to the ends of the Earth just because Shepard says so. But you best believe, if Shepard is doing the right thing they will.

[Stardusk78]

MegaBadExample wrote...

@Stardusk

You can't say that Liara loves Shepard more, just because she had nothing to do with herself and went out to search for Shepard's body. Ashley and Kaidan had jobs, roles, commitments - they couldn't do that. And even if they could, I don't think they would hand Shepard's body over to Cerberus for them to basically experiment on however they please. They would most likely do the right thing/normal thing and give Shepard a proper burial, mourn and say their goodbyes.

Ashley and Kaidan both love Shepard. That is it. They do, a lot. If you paid any attention you might know how much Shepard's death actually crushed them. They might not go to the ends of the Earth just because Shepard says so. But you best believe, if Shepard is doing the right thing they will.

Exactly. Their 'love' is conditioned on all sorts of things, whereas Liara's is much less so. Also, as I mentioned above, the Asari melding process is a much deeper connection than human intercourse.

[yoshibb]

The problem with 'unconditional' love is that it gives off the impression that they lack all personal identity and personal morals. I would like someone who would agree with me, just not to the point that they no longer functions as an individual and all their decisions are based around me.

But at the same time, that's not Liara. She's focused on revenge to the point that she actually forgets about Shepard. Like in LotSB when after Tela and Shepard fall out the window, crashing to the ground, Liara doesn't even check to see if Shep is alright, just chases straight after Tela.

So if Shepard started following the Reapers, would Liara be ok with that? How about if Shepard had started working for the Shadow Broker? Just because she isn't upset about Cerberus doesn't mean that she wouldn't have problems with other organizations.

[Stardusk78]

yoshibb wrote...

The problem with 'unconditional' love is that it gives off the impression that they lack all personal identity and personal morals. I would like someone who would agree with me, just not to the point that they no longer functions as an individual and all their decisions are based around me.

But at the same time, that's not Liara. She's focused on revenge to the point that she actually forgets about Shepard. Like in LotSB when after Tela and Shepard fall out the window, crashing to the ground, Liara doesn't even check to see if Shep is alright, just chases straight after Tela.

So if Shepard started following the Reapers, would Liara be ok with that? How about if Shepard had started working for the Shadow Broker? Just because she isn't upset about Cerberus doesn't mean that she wouldn't have problems with other organizations.

Well, yes, Liara does do her own thing and has her own personality, maybe greater loyalty would be the right term, there might be some extreme cases where she wouldn't be but overall I am inclined to think she is.

[MegaBadExample]

Stardusk78 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

@Stardusk

You can't say that Liara loves Shepard more, just because she had nothing to do with herself and went out to search for Shepard's body. Ashley and Kaidan had jobs, roles, commitments - they couldn't do that. And even if they could, I don't think they would hand Shepard's body over to Cerberus for them to basically experiment on however they please. They would most likely do the right thing/normal thing and give Shepard a proper burial, mourn and say their goodbyes.

Ashley and Kaidan both love Shepard. That is it. They do, a lot. If you paid any attention you might know how much Shepard's death actually crushed them. They might not go to the ends of the Earth just because Shepard says so. But you best believe, if Shepard is doing the right thing they will.

Exactly. Their 'love' is conditioned on all sorts of things, whereas Liara's is much less so. Also, as I mentioned above, the Asari melding process is a much deeper connection than human intercourse.

Less so? Liara wouldn’t quit her role as an information broker for Shepard. It was always “Shepard help me hack this, help me stop him, help me save him.” and then after when you finally did all that. She still wouldn't quit her job as the SB.

And how do you know it’s deeper? Shepard and the VS could be having some really, hot, intimate, passionate sex. While Liara dry humps Shepard's leg, and flicks through Shepard’s memories like photo album. Eh?

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 03 février 2012 - 07:22 .

[llandwynwyn]

Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem with Horizon? I don't like how Bioware handled it, especially Shepard, but in essence the VS was right. Even if it hurted like hell.

[Silver77nz]

--jacqui wrote...

I'm telling ya'll before I email the link to the man himself:

fangeek.com/2012/02/02/raphael-sbarge-jennifer-hale-qa-3/

Thanks again Jacqui your the best. Thank you also Raphael and Jennifer.:innocent:

[karajgil]

i think liara is rather obsessed with shepard because lets be honest, someone you love dies and maybe you would do anything to get them back. But if you really loved someone you wouldnt put them through the pain of coming back to life, of being dead for two years. it has got to be next to impossible to get over that. When you truely love someone you wouldnt do that to them. if you are obsessed with someone you would totally give their body to a terrorist organisation so that they can finish fighting an intergalactic war, possibly come back as a complete mockery of who they were before they died, and continue hero worshiping them.

basically i think what liara did was incredibly selfish. BUT I dont want to start a fight. the beauty of mass effect is that each player can choose to interpret things their own way because the way each player plays the game is cannon. there is no right or wrong way to interpret the game.

but seeing as this is a forum dedicated to kaidan, i'd tell you how it looks from here:D

[Stardusk78]

llandwynwyn wrote...

Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem with Horizon? I don't like how Bioware handled it, especially Shepard, but in essence the VS was right. Even if it hurted like hell.

How is the VS right?

[kareatix]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Well the Asari 'melding/joining' is obviously a lot more powerful than the human penis in the hole deal. Clearly Asari and those they bond with are touched on a much deeper level. I freely admit that after ME3 we will have a much more complete picture of things but if the trend continues I think Liara will once again show stronger feelings for Shepard than the VS.

I still see that as an assumption. There is no way to compare the force of Asari love (even with the melding) vs human love. I'm sure that in certain circumstances both kinds could be "tested" and the situations would have similar outcomes. Kaidan/Ash had to go through a lot with Shepard already, and I hope Liara will have a chance to test her loyalty too. Unfortunately, in ME2 Bioware wouldn't let us have more than 2 lines of response to what Liara did with Shep's body. Those who didn't approve of her actions didn't even get a chance to test Liara's loyalty in conflict (like with the VS post-Horizon), which is a shame cause it would be great for her character development.

Liara's love isn't unconditional either, it just hasn't been properly tested yet, that's all.

As for Liara being a bit obsessive - I can understand why people see her that way. Hell, I used to be a bit cross with her whenever she hit me with that "but I feel there's some kind of attraction between us too" (paraphrased) line after I told her I care for the VS. But I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Silver77nz]

Stardusk needs a hug:D:innocent: I'll be back later

[Wrathra]

Stardusk78 wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem with Horizon? I don't like how Bioware handled it, especially Shepard, but in essence the VS was right. Even if it hurted like hell.

How is the VS right?

I was fine with Horizon. I wish more people would have challenged Shepard about Cerebus and the resurrection, TBH.

Shepard came back from the DEAD and was working with a terrorist organization.  Anyone from the VS's perspective with a modicum of common sense would think Shepard was either insane or compromised. Why would the VS, a career alliance soldier (and possibly a spectre),  just committ treason (or at the very least be guilty of desertion) and wander off with Shepard? Because Shepard asked them to? That really doesn't make sense.


edit: clarification

Modifié par Wrathra, 03 février 2012 - 07:37 .

[Jenova65]

Stardusk78 wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem with Horizon? I don't like how Bioware handled it, especially Shepard, but in essence the VS was right. Even if it hurted like hell.

How is the VS right?

Dude... it is completely disrespectful to your friends to wander into their support threads and act like this... <_<
Respect people's choices, we don't go into Liara's thread and cause trouble, how about the same courtesy? I am asking as someone who has you on their FL 

[Eshaye]

llandwynwyn wrote...

Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem with Horizon? I don't like how Bioware handled it, especially Shepard, but in essence the VS was right. Even if it hurted like hell.

I don't mind it overall. The dialogue is severely lacking and does not feel adequate or satisfying. But it is a powerful scene and the fact that it's pissed off so many people is a credit to Bioware on how much they've made us emotionally invest in these characters.  


VS= Virmire Survivor  :happy:

Ooh Top! 


Maladi

Modifié par Eshaye, 03 février 2012 - 07:46 .