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[karajgil]

Stardusk78 wrote...

karajgil wrote...

i think we're all getting a little defensive. stardusk hasn't said anything truly insulting. we're all just having a disagreement about who we think loves shepard more and how we view the characters of mass effect differently. i think that as long as stardusk doesnt start attacking kaidan in a way that is just meant to offend all us kaidanites,its fine for them to be here.

I am not insulting anyone. I am A) having a legitimate discussion about Horizon and trying to understand the interest in Kaidan.

i didnt mean you were insulting anyone at all, just that sometimes people in this forum get defensive when someone comes in and starts questioning them. they can sometimes see that as insulting.

i think that there is nothing wrong with a difference of opinions being expressed.

now lets all be friends:D

[Stardusk78]

Wrathra wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...


And what exactly was Shepard supposed to say or do?

What Shepard should have done was hand herself over to Alliance authority as soon as she was able to, not wander to the Citadel to say hi when she got around to it.  However bad ass you want to play it, Shepard was an active Alliance marine who was hanging out with terrorists. This looks very very bad, no matter how you spin it.

And she sure as hell shouldn't have said "Hey wassup!" to what was possibly her lover/friend/whatever after being dead for two years. (this is the fault of the writers, though, but even so...)

You're forgetting the urgency of the Collector problem. The Alliance only knew about it because Cerberus tipped them off. If Shepard had gone through all the 'proper' channels, Horizon would have been wiped out and the human Reaper would have likely been completely assembled (or grown?). I think that is the crux of the matter, yes, Cerberus are are really bad guys but at the time their interests coincided with Shepard's.

No, I'm not.  The Alliance was investigating the disappeareances already. The Council wasn't.    The council acutally makes it clear that its a human matter.  That's mentioned in news reports i think. Cerebus set the VS up on Horizon, but its not like the colonies were disappearing in a vacuum.

Horizon was actually attacked BECAUSE Cerebus leaked intel and the VS was sent there, if i remember correctly from that conversation with TIM afterwards, so one could argue that Cerebus was doing more harm than good.

Well, I have to give you the point on Cerberus leaking that but I did say they were bad guys. I suppose I just would have expected the VS to be a LITTLE more understanding without the knee-jerk reaction. Maybe I should change that, Cerberus isn't really evil BUT TIM is...

[Jenova65]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Seriously... this is the Kaidan support thread, say something nice or take it somewhere else.. please....

Many nice things were said and the Horizon discussion falls under the province of Kaidan discussion.

Not really by you though.... Let's be honest, you even have a rep for starting inflammatory threads about VS.... And tbh... I'm not a lesbian Liara is never getting anything from Shepard... but constantly stating why she is better than VS it's.... so.... 12 years old... It's a blessing that Liara has TheChris and SystemlordBaal as ambassadors because you are just making me want to hate her.... but I love those guys... so I can see beyond that...
@Gareth, thank you darlin', 

Anyway.. discuss Kaidan... you are welcome, but let's not constantly compare because Kaidan and Liara are aimed at different audiences... and we happen to admire VS for standing up and being counted... It is what we would EXPECT Shep to do if the tables were turned.... 

What do lesbians have to do with anything? that sounds inflammatory to be honest.

Liara is a woman... nothing inflammatory.... WTH?

[Stardusk78]

Jenova65 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Seriously... this is the Kaidan support thread, say something nice or take it somewhere else.. please....

Many nice things were said and the Horizon discussion falls under the province of Kaidan discussion.

Not really by you though.... Let's be honest, you even have a rep for starting inflammatory threads about VS.... And tbh... I'm not a lesbian Liara is never getting anything from Shepard... but constantly stating why she is better than VS it's.... so.... 12 years old... It's a blessing that Liara has TheChris and SystemlordBaal as ambassadors because you are just making me want to hate her.... but I love those guys... so I can see beyond that...
@Gareth, thank you darlin', 

Anyway.. discuss Kaidan... you are welcome, but let's not constantly compare because Kaidan and Liara are aimed at different audiences... and we happen to admire VS for standing up and being counted... It is what we would EXPECT Shep to do if the tables were turned.... 

What do lesbians have to do with anything? that sounds inflammatory to be honest.

Liara is a woman... nothing inflammatory.... WTH?

Oh, you were stating you are not a lesbian. I see.

[Wrathra]

Polyhymnia wrote...

No kidding. The first time I playing through Horizon, I was excited to talk to Kaidan but then heard the horrible responses Shepard was saying. It was a painful scene due to poor writing. However, I totally respect Kaidan's point of view and think more highly of him that he stuck to his beliefs/morals instead of running off with Shepard. Personally I hated the fact that I was forced to help Cerberus especially since most of my Shepards are sole survivors.

I tried to romance Liara once, and I just found it to be too creepy (I felt she was a little obsessive and I felt like a perv pursuing her); it just wasn't my cup of tea. I am glad that others like her or any other LI, but I simply prefer Kaidan.

The devs really dropped the ball with Shepard's dialogue on Horizon, it could have been so much more powerful.  And I can't romance Liara either, feels like robbing the cradle to me. She's too young emotionally (and I'm an old lady  )

Stardusk78 wrote...

Well, I have to give you the point on
Cerberus leaking that but I did say they were bad guys. I suppose I just
would have expected the VS to be a LITTLE more understanding without
the knee-jerk reaction. Maybe I should change that, Cerberus isn't
really evil BUT TIM is...

The VS probably would have been more willing to listen if Shepard's dialogue wasn't so horrible. But Kaidan mentions that Anderson stonewalled him when he questioned Anderson (don't know about Ashley), Shep wasn't given an opportunity to contact him, the Cerberus rumors,etc all together looks very bad, not to mention being dead for two years - it should ****** off anyone with half a brain, imo - so the VS's knee jerk reaction is totally understandable.

[EmzvasNormandy]

latun98 wrote...

Encounter: Chapter 16 is up. 

http://loraine95.blo...-chapter-1.html
http://loraine95.dev...er-16-283026425

Excellent chapter as always! I'm glad there'll be more :-)

Keep up the good work

[Jenova65]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Oh, you were stating you are not a lesbian. I see.

Well... yes.. what else would I be saying, lol............ 

[Stardusk78]

Wrathra wrote...

Polyhymnia wrote...

No kidding. The first time I playing through Horizon, I was excited to talk to Kaidan but then heard the horrible responses Shepard was saying. It was a painful scene due to poor writing. However, I totally respect Kaidan's point of view and think more highly of him that he stuck to his beliefs/morals instead of running off with Shepard. Personally I hated the fact that I was forced to help Cerberus especially since most of my Shepards are sole survivors.

I tried to romance Liara once, and I just found it to be too creepy (I felt she was a little obsessive and I felt like a perv pursuing her); it just wasn't my cup of tea. I am glad that others like her or any other LI, but I simply prefer Kaidan.

The devs really dropped the ball with Shepard's dialogue on Horizon, it could have been so much more powerful.  And I can't romance Liara either, feels like robbing the cradle to me. She's too young emotionally (and I'm an old lady  )

Stardusk78 wrote...

Well, I have to give you the point on
Cerberus leaking that but I did say they were bad guys. I suppose I just
would have expected the VS to be a LITTLE more understanding without
the knee-jerk reaction. Maybe I should change that, Cerberus isn't
really evil BUT TIM is...

The VS probably would have been more willing to listen if Shepard's dialogue wasn't so horrible. But Kaidan mentions that Anderson stonewalled him when he questioned Anderson (don't know about Ashley), Shep wasn't given an opportunity to contact him, the Cerberus rumors,etc all together looks very bad, not to mention being dead for two years - it should ****** off anyone with half a brain, imo - so the VS's knee jerk reaction is totally understandable.

Liara is decades older than Shepard but robbing the cradle? Once again, I think the VS romance represents the cynical real-life us and Liara's is a fantasy. In the game I prefer Liara's but I acknowledge that it does not exist in rea life. And here is my positive thing to say about Kaidan; he is a lot better than Ashley.

[rudenotginger]

Stardusk, I disagree with your definition of unconditional love. There are three people in this world that I love unconditionally, and I would never ever hand their body over to a terrorist organization even if it meant possibly getting them back. That's not love, it's obsession and desperation. Because the VS don't worship the ground Shepard walks on and hold on to their values and convictions doesn't mean they love Shepard less.

[MegaBadExample]

rudenotginger wrote...

Stardusk, I disagree with your definition of unconditional love. There are three people in this world that I love unconditionally, and I would never ever hand their body over to a terrorist organization even if it meant possibly getting them back. That's not love, it's obsession and desperation. Because the VS don't worship the ground Shepard walks on and hold on to their values and convictions doesn't mean they love Shepard less.

I agree.

Stardusk this is for you www.youtube.com/watch unconditional love my ass.

[Jenova65]

She is not my fantasy... I don't want to be loved like that.... EVER.... And I like Liara fine...

[lady winde]

Wrathra wrote...

The VS probably would have been more willing to listen if Shepard's dialogue wasn't so horrible. But Kaidan mentions that Anderson stonewalled him when he questioned Anderson (don't know about Ashley), Shep wasn't given an opportunity to contact him, the Cerberus rumors,etc all together looks very bad, not to mention being dead for two years - it should ****** off anyone with half a brain, imo - so the VS's knee jerk reaction is totally understandable.

This :|

I hate that there appeared to be no attempt by Shepard to contact Anderson (aside from the Citadel visits) or Kaidan to let her know exactly what was going on. If there had been some way she could debrief the alliance on what had happened. It would have been awesome to see the effects of TIM's rumors had in that effect.  Missed opportunity I think.

And the only thing I can wonder as far as contacting Kaidan/Ashley is that all her e-mails were intercepted (speculating since we can't actually do any of the sort in game).

Said it before but I really hope we have a chance to see Kaidan and Shepard deal with what's happened. Be it a heart to heart talk, argument, whatever. Followed up with the most awsomeness make up sex too, but hey one can dream. Right?

[rudenotginger]

Jenova65 wrote...

She is not my fantasy... I don't want to be loved like that.... EVER.... And I like Liara fine...

^ This.

[Stardusk78]

MegaBadExample wrote...

rudenotginger wrote...

Stardusk, I disagree with your definition of unconditional love. There are three people in this world that I love unconditionally, and I would never ever hand their body over to a terrorist organization even if it meant possibly getting them back. That's not love, it's obsession and desperation. Because the VS don't worship the ground Shepard walks on and hold on to their values and convictions doesn't mean they love Shepard less.

I agree.

Stardusk this is for you www.youtube.com/watch unconditional love my ass.

All human reactions, sure. No one here (except myself perhaps) is taking into account the possible differences in physiology, attitude and just by being a different species, in Liara. We view her from a human lense and because Kaidan is a human  it is easier to commiserate with him.

[Stardusk78]

Jenova65 wrote...

She is not my fantasy... I don't want to be loved like that.... EVER.... And I like Liara fine...

Intriguing. And why not?

[WhoKnew]

Emz_J wrote...

latun98 wrote...

Encounter: Chapter 16 is up. 

http://loraine95.blo...-chapter-1.html
http://loraine95.dev...er-16-283026425

Excellent chapter as always! I'm glad there'll be more :-)

Keep up the good work

I love this story, too! I've been reading it on my Kindle all week and am planning on reviewing once I get on my netbook. Great work. 

[Polyhymnia]

I agree, Jenova. As for robbing the cradle, in ME, Liara exudes this schoolgirl innocence. So it seemed like I was taking advantage of her during the romance. Much like Garrus, Liara has been a good friend to my Shep. Then I understand why others prefer them to the VS, I do not. Frankly, I feel that both Ashley and Kaidan were written well that I connected with them so much more. It was hard to roll a male Shep but it was worth it for Ashley's romance. I am just really looking forward to the demo to see Ashley/Kaidan (though mainly Kaidan).

Modifié par Polyhymnia, 03 février 2012 - 08:42 .

[MegaBadExample]

Stardusk78 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

rudenotginger wrote...

Stardusk, I disagree with your definition of unconditional love. There are three people in this world that I love unconditionally, and I would never ever hand their body over to a terrorist organization even if it meant possibly getting them back. That's not love, it's obsession and desperation. Because the VS don't worship the ground Shepard walks on and hold on to their values and convictions doesn't mean they love Shepard less.

I agree.

Stardusk this is for you www.youtube.com/watch unconditional love my ass.

All human reactions, sure. No one here (except myself perhaps) is taking into account the possible differences in physiology, attitude and just by being a different species, in Liara. We view her from a human lense and because Kaidan is a human  it is easier to commiserate with him.

I'm just saying. Liara could have let Shepard go peacefully. But she was a tad greedy. There was no chance she/he could be brought back for sure, but Liara still handed his body over. Cerberus could've done horrible experiments on Shepard. Miranda could have implanted that control chip and so forth.

Where as, Ashley and Kaidan just let Shepard go. That doesn't mean they didn't love Shepard any more or less than Liara. Shepard was dead, and in Ashley case, she believed Shepard was in a better place.

[rudenotginger]

We get it. You like Liara better than the VS. Some people don't. Neither is "right" or "wrong". Why do you try so hard to convince us? It's ok to disagree...

[yoshibb]

I still don't get what the difference between the VS hating Cerberus and Liara hating the Shadow Broker is. If Shepard had left Cerberus and joined up with the Shadow Broker instead, Liara would've gone ape**** and probably would've reacted the same way the VS did on Horizon. In fact, they might end up trying to kill each other.

Is it so hard to understand that I value the individuality and moral strength of Kaidan more than I do the loyalty of Liara recovering Shepard's body and giving it to Cerberus? I mean if we want to talk about loyalty, Garrus and Tali drop everything and follow Shepard. Does that make them more loyal than Liara who didn't join Shepard on a suicide mission.

It's like when I got that email from Toombs in ME2. I was just wondering, what is Shepard really doing here? Kaidan just told Shepard exactly what I was thinking, but at the same time, he trusted her enough not to try and stop her. He knew she would be doing the right thing, he just couldn't be a part of it.

And then she blows up a 300,000 batarians and a mass relay. I think I'd be having a few questions when I saw her again. It starts out as a mission to take down a rogue spectre and now we're blowing up entire systems. It's a bit crazy to think about.

Modifié par yoshibb, 03 février 2012 - 08:45 .

[Oddlyotter]

Liara's relationship was handled much like Jacobs. It seemed no matter what I said a interest was started. Albeit, in Jacob's my femshep was the flirty one. But Liara seemed kinda creepy.

[Bekkael]

Clearly, there's not enough to keep forumites entertained these days.  Come on demo date, hurry up and get here...

I'm in a bit of a sappy/melancholy/pensive mood today, and this song resonates.




ChloroKitten


Sylianna84


Goha7777

[Stardusk78]

rudenotginger wrote...

We get it. You like Liara better than the VS. Some people don't. Neither is "right" or "wrong". Why do you try so hard to convince us? It's ok to disagree...

Not trying to convince anyone though admittedly constantly hearing from VS fans how 'creepy', 'obsessive' and 'immature' Liara is, is irksome.

[jdecker]

I like Tali better than Liara lol, Liara's voice makes me feel like I'm in Therapy, just give me my happy pills so i can go already!! lol I like Kaidan much more than both of them put together lol!! Is it March yet?