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[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Anyone else read my letter?

Modifié par Totally Not Swaggacide, 06 avril 2012 - 07:44 .

[sammysoso]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Anyone else read my letter?

I did, you did a great job, got the key point accross. Hopefully people at BioWare see it.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Reed

Did you read my letter?

I did, thought it was very well said.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Reed

Did you read my letter?

I did, thought it was very well said.

Thank you 

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

sammysoso wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Anyone else read my letter?

I did, you did a great job, got the key point accross. Hopefully people at BioWare see it.

Thanks

[ADLegend21]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

UGH this is soooo annoying!

I just get back on the Ship from the Citadel Coup and...

Garrus talks about how it's good to have Ashley back and how hard it must have been to point a gun at her...

Joker trashes Ashley about pointing a gun at Shepard and "almost letting the council die" (I hate joker now)

Traynor, Vega, and Allers all come to Shepard's cabin...

yet all Ashley has to say is, "Good to see you." ... nothing else... just that one line of auto-dialogue. How pathetic.

It's sad when traynor has more content than your LI.

Well traynor's scene is a friendship scene. It's Liara that comes to your cabin three speareate non love scene times. THough i does suck that Ashley does NOT leave starboard observations. Hell Kaidan does, and his first conversation is a cutscene conversation not auto point and click lines.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@ADLegend21
Wow that's bull

[Sgt Reed 24]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

UGH this is soooo annoying!

I just get back on the Ship from the Citadel Coup and...

Garrus talks about how it's good to have Ashley back and how hard it must have been to point a gun at her...

Joker trashes Ashley about pointing a gun at Shepard and "almost letting the council die" (I hate joker now)

Traynor, Vega, and Allers all come to Shepard's cabin...

yet all Ashley has to say is, "Good to see you." ... nothing else... just that one line of auto-dialogue. How pathetic.

It's sad when traynor has more content than your LI.

Well traynor's scene is a friendship scene. It's Liara that comes to your cabin three speareate non love scene times. THough i does suck that Ashley does NOT leave starboard observations. Hell Kaidan does, and his first conversation is a cutscene conversation not auto point and click lines.

You can make it more than a friendship scene...

but yeah, I was just expressing my disgust for Ashley not saying anything after such a big mission that she was even involved in. =/

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I know Reed it's so dumb

[CptData]

As I promised, here you go: have my Ashley-related letter for the PAX stuff:

Dear Bioware Development Team,


I'm one of the fans of the Mass Effect series and play this game since 2008, although I joined the community on Bioware Social Network much later. As much as I enjoyed the series in general, some points need to be discussed, maybe even criticised.
Since this initiative deals only with the romances and the treatment of certain romances in the final part of the trilogy, I won't write down a single word regarding the endings. That's another topic and needs to be discussed properly.

Although I support any romances provided by the game, my main focus is on Ashley's romance. I loved this character since Mass Effect 1, one of the most authentic and believeable characters in the series and most likely in games history as well. After Mass Effect 2 and a mostly sidelined Ashley and Kaidan (also known as the Virmire Survivor), I had hoped for a really rewarding romance conclusion in Mass Effect 3.

You promised to give loyal fans a special reward and cheating on Liara, Ashley or Kaidan might have some delicate consequences.
None of the promises were kept in my opinion: Liara's romance got the best treatment, but even she's not minding cheating on her in Mass Effect 2 that much.
Ashley and Kaidan mention something but the consequences are just one or two additional lines - and that's it. Moreover their romances are pretty much the only reason why keeping Ashley or Kaidan on board of the Normandy - there is no real friendship content for both of them like you have for Vega, Garrus or Liara.

Currently, the content of Ashley got a worse treatment than the one of Kaidan: the romance itself is crafted in a really beautiful way, however, there's a huge gap of content between the "Date" on the Citadel and the final climax romance scene - which can easily span more than 20 hours of gameplay. There's no additional content for Ashley, she has the least generic lines and acts too cold, too professional and too introverted. Not interacting with the rest of the crew is straight out of character if you compare her with the Ashley of Mass Effect 1. In the first part of the trilogy, Ashley was one of the most talkative characters, never held back her opinion and talked frequently in the missions. In Mass Effect 3, Ashley nearly has no lines in the second half of the game, has nearly no lines in most missions and does not tell her point of few after most missions.
In short: Ashley Madeline Williams in the third part doesn't feel like Ashley Madeline Williams in Mass Effect 1 - except in her romance scenes.

Games work best with a perfectly crafted illusion of a world you can dive in and "live" in that world as long as the game lasts. You created some of the most interesting and authentic characters and almost made the illusion perfect of dealing with real (human) beings. This illusion gets damaged in Ashley's case in the last part of the series since the aforementioned issues.

Since my focus is on Ashley, I won't go into details for most other romances like Jacob's, Thane's, Miranda's and Jack's romances. Let's face it: those romances got a really, really disappointing treatment in the eyes of their fans - and even I felt bad because of this.

That's one of the reasons why I created this topic about "Romance DLCs" and a way how to deal with that issue. If you like you may have a read here:
http://social.biowar.../index/10921253


Thank you for reading my letter and best regards,

Michael Giertz aka CptData,
Neu-Ulm, Germany, 4/3/2012

Also have the second one I wrote on request by Visii:

Dear Bioware Development Team,

this is the second letter written by me regarding the romances and love interests provided by the Mass Effect series. I'm writing this letter on request by Visii, the user who started the initiative with this thread:
http://social.biowar.../index/10853184

This letter is supposed as general support for ANY romance, regardless if it's for my primary love interest "Ashley" or for Liara, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob and all the other romances I don't mention here. Again I need to promote my own thread so you, dear Bioware development team, get an idea why I feel like that and why I got requested to write a second letter:
http://social.biowar.../index/10921253

Again I need to point out you promised us fans closures for any romances. Again I feel the urge to point out this promise got broken or twisted in a way some (if not all) fans can't cope. They feel disappointed, not because they're whiny or too demanding, but the treatment of their favorite romance and character. I know we can be quite loud and express our feelings frequently and I'm well aware it's impossible to please all fans of the series - I'm just wondering how you managed it to make most fans unhappy.

As I said in my first letter, a good game creates an illusion to allow the player to dive in and experience the world as "real" (as possible). It's a major achievement for any writer to create authentic and believeable characters the reader of a book, the audience of a movie or a player of a game starts to care for and cry if they die or laugh in joy if they get a happy ending.
That illusion is created perfectly in Mass Effect 1 and 2 but falls apart for most romances and characters in Mass Effect 3. Mostly because the lack of content for certain characters but also by the way how you treated most of the romances.

Out of the bunch of sidelined romances, Jack got the best treatment if you do her mission, although her romance got reduced to very few lines. At least she lives.
Miranda got worse, since you can lose her easily. Also her romance finds a BETTER closure if she dies by the hands of Kai Leng then in the case she lives as well. And you can't officially break up with her without death waiting for Miranda in the end.
Thane dies, regardless of what you do, his "romance arc" doesn't feel any different from friendship path. How was it so difficult to give him a proper romance arc? Even if he's going to die, he still had the first half of Mass Effect 3 for some development: plenty of time to give him a fulfilling romance. Even if he dies.
And then we have Jacob. I think his treatment is unjust. Not only he's the only one who's moving on quickly - given the fact the third part of the trilogy is set just few months after the end of Mass Effect 2, Jacob moved on right after the crew got disbanded AND managed to get his girlfriend pregnant! It's also damaging his character: Jacob seemed to be a rather good guy with very high standards. Although the fandom of Jacob is rather small, it's not a reason to give him that kind of treatment. Since there's no way to prevent this development, Jacob's romance got a really railroaded closure.
In short: the romances for the four new characters in Mass Effect 2 got more or less dissatisfying closures.

There's another issue brought up by a lot of fans: female Shepard characters have less straight options (namely Kaidan and Garrus since the issues we have with Jacob and Thane) to choose from compared to straight male Shepard characters (who have at least Ashley, Diana, Liara, Tali and Miranda and Jack - I'm well aware you consider Liara not as "woman" - the fans seem to have a different opinion here).
Most of the romances seem to be created to please male fans of the series while female players get a, let's say, "different" treatment. The new romanceable male character is Steve Cortez - and he's available for male Shepards only. Yes, some female players also have male Shepards and can experience the romance, but what about straight female players with female Shepards? They only get Garrus and Kaidan - and both can die at some point in the series, leaving those players without any straight male romance option in Mass Effect 3. James Vega seems to be the obvious way out of this mess, but you decided to make him a "buddy" only.

Maybe I should stop here and write down some last lines.
With exception of Liara's romance and Garrus' and Vega's friendship, most of the other characters feel incomplete in one or another way. For the Virmire Survivor it's the second half of the game: Ashley and Kaidan have nearly no other content than their romances. The romances created in Mass Effect 2 got sidelined and treated with dissatisfying closures. Tali's role is reduced to the last few hours of the game, 'though it's understandable story wise. All romances have no real interactive content like calling them to the cabin, allow your LI to move in permanenty (so they resist in your cabin like in Mass Effect 2) - some of them just got "autodialogues". And, as I said before, Thane's and Jacob's romance feel railroaded since there's no way to get a different closure than "Thane dies" and "Jacob moves on".

No one demands all romances should get the same amount of content, the same story, the same treatment. That's not possible or would make them totally interchangeable, so the primary story for each love interest should be different. However, some basics should be the same, like some interactive content I mentioned before. Also, if you read the threads I mentioned earlier, you might get an idea what your fans wanted and hoped for before the release of Mass Effect 3. I'm well aware not all of that stuff can be introduced with a DLC or two and I know it was impossible to do so for the original version since lack of time and money in the end.
However, I hope I helped you to understand how we fans feel.

Thank you for reading my second letter and best regards,

Michael Giertz aka CptData,
Neu-Ulm, Germany, 4/4/2012

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Great letters Data did you read mine?

[CptData]

Where's yours? Must be missed that one

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

CptData wrote...

Where's yours? Must be missed that one

Its the last post on page 1029

BP93 edited it for me so it will be under his name 

[Sgt Reed 24]

Love it Data! ... Can I copy that as my letter? lmao

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

Love it Data! ... Can I copy that as my letter? lmao

LOL

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Yeah I know it's hilarious

[djmagic]

where is that picture from? Like who is it?

[Mr. Brainheart]

So are people turning this into the we hate Liara thread now? Just because she has great content and you're jealous of it? Because that is silly, really silly..(putting it mildly) This is the Ash thread statements like "I'd replace Liara by anyone" or something along those lines are not quote worthy and only widen the gap between threads for NO good reason.

You don't have to like her, but please...keep it Ash people..Her name's in the thread title for a reason.


Anyway frustrations aside, good job on those letters! I wonder if they'll have some effect..(although I doubt it, you never know.)

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

djmagic wrote...

where is that picture from? Like who is it?

Its a rapper called Rich Boy

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@Mr. Brainheart

We don't hate Liara it's all jokes

[Arban M]

Good job with those letters CptData and TNS!

Modifié par Arban M, 06 avril 2012 - 10:36 .

[Hellfire257]

Jesus H. Christ, Data - I thought I'd written a lot!

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Thanks Arban

[Mr. Brainheart]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@Mr. Brainheart

We don't hate Liara it's all jokes

I find it hard to believe that 8 people quote the following statement with +1 and what not:

texanhusker wrote...

I would sacrifice Liara for anyone in the crew.

 

As a joke..but even if they did, what's it purpose? The only effect it has is making sure that Liaramancers won't feel welcome, at all. Again it's hostility for NO good reason. Why is it so much to ask we don't slant other characters, do we like it if other threads say "Ash is a space hitler" or "I virmired her ass!" and then people start quoting it with +1's? From experience: NO.

I don't care if you like Liara or not, but this is silly and has NOTHING to do with Ashley...*sigh* It's intolerant, even if it isn't intended that way it's the message it's going to give if any. Right now, I'd just like to see it stop before it gets worse...because there is no reason for it to be in this thread.

Modifié par Mr. Brainheart, 06 avril 2012 - 10:41 .