50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellfire257]

I'll always stand by my opinion that Virmire was a very bad gameplay choice as well as the 2nd largest military ****up in Mass Effect (No.1 being the battle of London). I've always been an advocate of rewarding players who pull of really hard tasks. If I was designing Virmire, I would have had a time limit which when expires, lets you only save 1 squad member. So for example, if you complete the mission in under x minutes, you get to save both because you were swift enough in completing your tasking so that neither team gets overwhelmed.

Anyway...

Modifié par Hellfire257, 12 mai 2012 - 11:20 .

[Janus Prospero]

DWH1982 wrote...

Makes me wonder how they would have handled Horizon in ME2 and ME3 in general if both could be alive. Which one would go to Horizon, and which one would you encounter elsewhere? Which one would you meet on Earth and Mars in ME3? Which one would become a Spectre?

When you think about it, that's a good indication of why they didn't let you save them both. ME3 has some pretty diverse branches depending on previous choices already. But making it so you could save both of them would have been a witting and coding nightmare, considering how big a role they play in ME3.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 12 mai 2012 - 11:22 .

[DWH1982]

I think it was a compelling choice gameplay wise, but a poor choice in terms of character development.

Once Ash and Kaidan became interchangable, I think it hurt them both seriously in the long term character development department. Probably I wouldn't include a similar choice if I were designing an RPG trilogy.

@Janus: I don't think having one more major character who could be either dead or alive would make that much of a difference.

It might, however, mean that Ash and Kaidan would get to keep a little more of their individuality - acutally have their own stories, instead of an interchangable role.

Perhaps Ash would get injured, go to the hospital, etc - but Kaidan would get to be on the squad from day 1.

Modifié par DWH1982, 12 mai 2012 - 11:25 .

[Hellfire257]

DWH1982 wrote...
I think it was a compelling choice gameplay wise, but a poor choice in terms of character development.

I think it depends on what you value as a player. Personally, I want to be rewarded for getting things right and/or pulling off the near impossible.

When I design scenarios for ARMA2, I always try and plan for each possible outcome of the mission. For example, I have one where your squad is tasked with ambushing a convoy containing a POW. There are multiple ways to complete the mission:

• Ambush the convoy, killing the POW == failure.
• Ambush the convoy, rescue POW. POW informs you of OPFOR's base camp. Players assault base camp == success.
• Fail to ambush convoy, follow tracking signal to OPFOR base camp. POW killed in the assault == failure.
• Fail to ambush convoy, follow tracking signal to OPFOR base camp. POW rescued in the assault == success.
• Fail to ambush convoy, follow tracking signal to OPFOR base camp. POW executed by OPFOR because the assault took too long == failure.

As you can see, there are a fair amount of outcomes depending on how well the squad executes the task - ranging from catastropic failure to textbook operation. Outcome 2 is the ideal option, while outcome 4 is the hardest to achieve. 4 allows the players to recover from their initial screw up and complete the mission, however the time limit makes this very difficult to accomplish. If their assault of the base is executed to a really high standard, they deserve to be rewarded by succesfully completing the mission.

However, this all goes down the pan when you involve an over-arcing plot. Leaving a squad member behind is a compelling  plot device, however it always leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth. This may be the intended effect - an attempt to increase my immersion, however the opposite actually occurs. There is no implemented tactical solution to to solving the problem despite it actually staring the player in the face. I always finish Virmire knowing that the situation could've been prevented but the game will not allow it. Knowing that the option to pull out with both squad members in tow was considered and eventually removed just annoys me.

Shepard should know that the longer he/she takes completing the tasking, the more likely it is that the distraction element will get bogged down. A lighter force must always move quickly in order to avoid this. Furthermore, the ruse set up by the distraction team was blown shortly after Shepard began assaulting the base. Why did they not reverse bound out of the situation? Why did they allow themselves to get bogged down in the first place? SOF are not line infantry and they should know better than to allow it to happen. The supposed "elite" STG did not play to their strengths at all.

Virmire will always irritate me.

Modifié par Hellfire257, 13 mai 2012 - 12:27 .

[DWH1982]

@Hellfire: In a game like Mass Effect, I think most people would just re-load and replay until they can beat the time limit and get the optimal outcome. The only time we'd see either Ash or Kaidan die is when the player hates one of them.

EDIT: Not enough Ash:



Yeah, I post that one a lot... but it's one of my favorites.

You can expect to see it quite often while I'm around.

Modifié par DWH1982, 13 mai 2012 - 12:56 .

[Arban M]

Here's my hospital dialogue V2. Hope you enjoy it .

Shepard is at Huerta Memorial hospital for treatment after a hard battle against the Reapers. He's awake in his bed and Ashley is sitting next to him.

Shepard: I don't want to stay here anymore. I want to leave.
Ashley: Sorry, Shepard. You must stay here for three more days.
Shepard: That's bad, Ashley. I want to go back onboard the Normandy, see the rest of my crew and be inside my cabin with you.
Ashley: I know but the doctors told you that you can leave after three more days. You have been here for two weeks now and it's just three more days.
Shepard: Can you do me a favour, Ash?
Ashley: What do you need?
Shepard: Can you get me something to drink?
Ashley: Yeah sure. Wait here and I'll get you some water or a Red Bull.
Shepard: Thanks Ashley.

Ashley leaves the room and Shepard is thinking to himself.

Shepard: I just can't stand it anymore. I need to get out of here. I'm sorry Ashley, hope you can forgive me.

Shepard sneaks out from his room and looks around to see if Ashley is nearby. The coast is clear and he walks away. Ashley returns with a Red Bull drink and sees Shepard is not there.

Ashley: Damn it!! I'm going to get you for this Shepard!!

Shepard walks towards the elevator, turning around to check nobody is watching him. Seeing nobody, he calls the elevator. Ashley sees Shepard waiting. She sneaks up right behind him and grabs his ear.

Ashley: Shepard!! What are you doing!?!?
Shepard: Let me explain, Ashley.
Ashley: Don't say a word!!

Ashley drags Shepard back to his room by the ear. Shepard lays back down on the bed, unprepared for Ashley's next move.

Shepard: Ash, why are you sitting on top of me?
*Ashley looks down to Shepard*
Ashley: To make sure you are not going anywhere.
Shepard: I'm not going anywhere this time.
Ashley: I don't believe it, Shepard!! You acted like a child there!!
Shepard: I'm sorry. It's just that...........
Ashley: What?
Shepard: Never mind. I agree with you. What I did was childish and I will never do something like this again.
Ashley: It looks like you don't care about your health and you need someone to be there and watch you.
Shepard: It's the first time I've tried to sneak out of a hospital. And the person, who I love very much, caught me. I hope you can forgive me for what I've done.

Ashley walks to the door and locks it, drawing the curtains so no one can see them. She returns to Shepard and climbs on top of him.

Ashley: I forgive you. Promise me to not repeat such a stupid act again, Shepard.
Shepard: I promise, Ash. I'm not going to hurt you, never again. Thanks for being here for me.
*Ashley smiles*
Ashley: I'm always going to be with you. I love you.
*Shepard smiles*
Shepard: I love you too.
*Ashley and Shepard kiss each other*

Modifié par Arban M, 13 mai 2012 - 12:17 .

[ADLegend21]

DWH1982 wrote...
Makes me wonder how they would have handled Horizon in ME2 and ME3 in general if both could be alive. Which one would go to Horizon, and which one would you encounter elsewhere? Which one would you meet on Earth and Mars in ME3? Which one would become a Spectre?

I think you would have found them in different places in that case. Maybe Kaidan on Horizon and Ashley somewhere else? The possibilities are endless.

[CrutchCricket]

Hey, I just came in here randomly but I have to agree with Hellfire about the Vrmire thing. There was no reason you couldn't save both apart from "the game doesn't want you to". Doesn't mean I would have. But I agree with his reasoning on tactics.

Also go Ash!

[DWH1982]

Aurora313 wrote...

Shepard: What did I tell you Ash?
Ashley: Not to drink the Ryncol...
Shepard: And what did you do?
Ashley:  Drank the Ryncol.
Shepard: Uh huh.
Ashley: F*ck you and that damned steel lever.
Shepard: "-that damned steel liver...?"
Ashley: Sir.
Shepard: Off to hangover land for you, Williams.
Ashley: ... hate you, Skipper.
Shepard: Love you, too, Ash. 

I hope you don't mind, but I decided to build on this a bit. If you don't like me using your dialouge, just let me know and I'll take it down.


The next morning, in the Captain’s quarters
Shepard: (walks into cabin) Well, look at you! You’re finally up!
Ash: Ugh. Not so loud. And, yeah. Spent about an hour in the bathroom… Last twenty minutes or so were just dry heaves. Finally got it under control. I think.
Shepard: I’m sorry to hear that. You’ll be happy to know that I’m having a great morning, though. (holds up styrofoam container)
Ash: Is that so… Wait… What’s in there? What’s that smell? (starts to look a little nauseous)
Shepard: Oh, James decided to do some cooking again. And since we still had some high grade provisions from our last trip to the Citadel, I decided I’d have him whip up the ingredients for a breakfast sandwich. A nice. Greasy. Smelly. Breakfast sandwich. (opens the container, and the smell fills the cabin).
Ash: Ugh… I.. Shepard… Please…
Shepard: (picks up sandwich, takes a bite) This is really good, Ash. You want some? There are eggs on here. Sausage. Cheese. And grease. Lots of grease. You know – they say that stuff will kill you, but I’ve already been dead once. Right?
Ash:….
Shepard: Say, you okay Ash? You’re starting to look a little green.
Ash: (runs into the bathroom)

**

EDIT: @Arban: Thanks for posting that. I was starting to get a little depressed about the ending again until I read it.

The dialouges on here really help. Make it easier to imagine a head canon ending.

Modifié par DWH1982, 13 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[BP93]

Greasy food when hungover is the greatest thing ever. I don't know what Ash's problem is. lol

[survivor_686]

Remember the Colossus armour for Ash in ME1?

Modifié par survivor_686, 13 mai 2012 - 03:22 .

[DWH1982]

Ah yeah. Black and red.

That was good armor, if I recall.

[survivor_686]

http://cloud.steampo...0F0B8C3117204D/

And here's the ingame version.

[survivor_686]

http://cloud.steampo...07780EEBBE83FC/

Miranda's catsuit had nothing on Ashley in a Colossus.....Even Krogan's pay attention.

[survivor_686]

DWH1982 wrote...

Ah yeah. Black and red.

That was good armor, if I recall.

Indeed it was....second only to the predator in terms of shielding...the first in terms of damage protection.

[DWH1982]

I might take some flak for this - but I actually prefer the way ME2 and 3 handeled armor.

I like Shep in his N7 armor. Would prefer to just customize/add to that instead of constantly changing armor all the time. Plus, honestly, the constant armor changing broke immersion for me. Especially when I switched armor while deployed. Not sure how that would work, exactly.

My main problem with ME3* is that it didn't involve a way to customize squadmate armor, as well. Would have been nice to be able to mod Ash's armor with a specific chestplate, arms, etc, that would impact her stats.

*As far as armor is concerned.

Modifié par DWH1982, 13 mai 2012 - 03:34 .

[iHorizons]

survivor_686 wrote...


Miranda's catsuit had nothing on Ashley in a Colossus.....Even Krogan's pay attention.

What a completely irrelevant and stupid thing to say

[Td1984]

Eh, the Colossus was good armor, but not exactly eye-candy inducing/enhancing. Though I did have Ash wear it most of the time.

Modifié par Td1984, 13 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[Ushanka]

Honestly, EDI has best war ass...sets. (:

[SJNKD]

Ashley's figure has changed, but I think most people would of noticed that.

[Ushanka]

Yeah, BW redesigned many things in ME3. Remember trailer? There was phrase like "Mass Effect became even more sexyer", or something like that.

[SJNKD]

Yeah, I laughed when I saw that.

I just started playing me1 again, earthborn and war hero. Ashley and him got off on the wrong foot, wanted to see what happened if you were a little mean to her. I felt so guilty.

Modifié par SJNKD, 13 mai 2012 - 06:15 .

[Ushanka]

Renegade playthrought? (:

[SJNKD]

Yeah. Haven't done it yet, pretty funny but I feel guilty being evil to ash. Only guilty to her, enjoy being a jerk to everyone else.

[Ushanka]

Yeah, renegade is jerk sometimes, but he doing his job good. But I don't like renegade in ME3... Pure evil...