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[BP93]

Aurora313 wrote...

Ashley is working on some negiotations post-war between Turians and another party (fill in the blank). She has some... unorthadox methods to deal with it.


*dialogue cut*

This one made me laugh.

Ash the politician, she is not.

[Dannycni]

You're definately right DWH when you say it feels rushed. Even before I came on these forums and so saw what everyone else was saying about it, when I finished all I could feel was disappointed as the game just feels like it wasn't fully complete before they put it on sale. I thought when they announced it'd be delayed until march that it would be released with no problems and the game would be all the better for it but even with that delay it still feels like there is too much missing...in my opinion Ash is a big part of whats missing but others out there would disagree

@dahellraider, you are really into The Grey at the moment aren't you lol
But very good vid...I'm so sad now

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Modifié par Dannycni, 14 mai 2012 - 07:34 .

[dahellraider]

@Dannycni

What can I say that ending really touched me lol. especially the song with the poem. Sorry I made you sad I actually realized after I posted the vid it now made me sad ahahah.

[mnomaha]

...did you guys read this yet?

http://www.forbes.co...-the-shepard/2/

It wasn't exactly...nice...

[lil yonce]

DWH1982 wrote...

I actually liked what interaction we did have. Like much else with ME3, though, it just felt... incomplete.

Regardless of what Bioware says, ME3 felt rushed. The lack of more hub worlds than the Citadel, a main plot and main plot missions that felt like they had been cut down from something that was planned as larger, autodialouge galore, etc.

Ash and Miranda are part of that. It's like they didn't have time to give them the depth they deserved, so they said, "focus on these aspects, just so we can get them wrapped up."

Miranda's role doesn't make a lot of sense to me because all she talks about it Oriana and she's the former Cerberus second-in-command and were figting Cerberus the entire game. WTF? Her role should've been Cerberus heavy with Oriana peripherally related.

IMO, Ash's storyarc had more leeway. It seems her writer had more creative control and could decide what could go into her character and I think this way because she's not tied to the main plot past the coup attempt. Why did her writer decied to make Sara - a character with no lines - the foundation? She barely talks about anyone besides Sara. Can't get away from that damn Sara. And when her storyline is about something else - the drunk scene - we can't talk to her about it. There was so much they could've worked with and didn't. So many more important things and they made family the focus for most of it? Why?

Do we know who wrote Ashley and why they wrote her the way they did?

The main game should have been longer, so we have the option of having Ash on the Normandy for a longer period of time. All of those things should have been resolved while she was on the damn ship. When I first noticed she was never leaving the observation deck, I was so sure it was because she was having trouble reintegrating, that she felt like the others were judging her for not being there during ME2, and that those issues - as well as the lingering issues between her and Shepard - would eventually be resolved thorugh dialouge. Yes, some  people might have missed it by not choosing to bring her along. But let's face it - those are the people who hate Ash, who probably didn't talk to her in ME1, and probably wouldn't bother with talking to her again. Assuming they didn't kill her outright during the coup.

Yes, I was so sure that we'd have those conversations with her. Instead, she never had more than a handful of lines. Often, she had nothing to say at all.

EDIT: On the bright side, at least they didn't Jacob Taylor us:

Ash (showing up in one mission in the game): Yeah, I've hooked up with some random guy just introduced in this game. And, oh yeah, I'm pregnant and totally not into you anymore.

I didn't get the impression she felt judged and thus didn't interact. I mean, why would Ash care what they think? She didn't on Horizon and she had good reason not to join or support a Cerberus backed mission. This is a woman who's built a career on challenging the opinions of others and having the courage of her convictions. She proves a lot of people wrong by being promoted and honoring her family name and in a lot cases people prove her right. Tali and stolen Normandy tech. The Council and the dog comment.

I didn't like how she was so unsure of herself for most of the game. After she makes Spectre status she asks Shep what he thinks about it like she's looking for his approval not because - say she doesn't trust politicians and the dirtiest of them all - Udina - promoted her.

And why can't she decide what to say to Sara at the Memorial Wall? She took a leave of absense to escort her sister to school and took a course of action to deal with Mike her mother diagreed with because she knew it was best for Sara. Her actions don't speak well to her character.

And why is she the only one who does any apologizing after the coup attempt? Does anyone esle feel their Shepard was partly to blame for their rift?

And our bar should be higher. We should not be happy we didn't get Jacob Taylor'ed. We should be upest Ash just didn't get better treatment period.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 14 mai 2012 - 08:15 .

[CptData]

mnomaha wrote...

...did you guys read this yet?

http://www.forbes.co...-the-shepard/2/

It wasn't exactly...nice...

Well, technically the writer of that article is right. Besides the bad parts of "stripper" and "injection" (both is wrong, period), Ashley indeed lacks any redeeming features in ME3.

Either she redeemed in ME1 (by paragonizing her, slowly shifting her views on aliens) or she never got any redeeming scenes. Actually, the coup does not fully redeem her. All the stuff she loads on Shepard on Mars ... nope. People not knowing her -WILL- dislike Ashley. Only her fans know why Ashley is acting like she does and even we feel it's too much.

So yeah, in a way the writer is right.

[mnomaha]

Ouch. I just started a ME1 playthrough. For some reason, all my saves are coming up with Kaidan alive when he shouldn't be. So I'll try this again. Although having said that, I won't be able to actually play ME3 until they fix more than just the ending. All I've seen of Ashley so far is from youtube, so a bit up in the air right now.

[dahellraider]

Guys we need something cheerful, past few pages have been.....well....depressing to say the least. I cant belive I'm thinking this, but I might need to throw in some pancakes soon.

Modifié par dahellraider, 14 mai 2012 - 08:31 .

[CptData]

dahellraider wrote...

Guys we need something cheerful, past few pages have been.....well....depressing to say the least.

Guess have this as a start then:

Shepard-Ashley-ME3-tribute
My fave. The soundtrack is an edited version of "Nero" from "Two Steps From Hell".

[Cennturion]

dahellraider wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch
^ Dedicated to all Sheply fans

Great vid dahellraider, it really touched me...

[dahellraider]

@Cennturion

Thx, I needed a video today to celebrate my youtube accounts 5th anniversary lol

Modifié par dahellraider, 14 mai 2012 - 08:41 .

[lil yonce]

Why don't you guys want to talk about this? Don't you want to draw attention to the problems so it can be fixed via DLC or clarified by a developer?

Miranda fans are working overtime to improve Miranda's storyarc with the #FindMiranda project.

Thanemancers have a separate thread protesting his romance!

So why are we avoiding/ignoring the bad about Ash? Why aren't we doing something about it?

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 14 mai 2012 - 08:41 .

[dahellraider]

Um, the few of us here have complained many times, there's really not all much we can do. Bioware knows what they did wrong. whether they listen or not is up to them.

Modifié par dahellraider, 14 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[CptData]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Why don't you guys want to talk about this? Don't you want to draw attention to the problems so it can be fixed via DLC or clarified by a developer?

Miranda fans are working overtime to improve Miranda's storyarc with the #FindMiranda project.

Thanemancers have a separate thread protesting his romance!

So why are we avoiding/ignoring the bad about Ash? Why aren't we doing something about it?

Well, I wrote two letters (technically three, but one didn't get released) for Visii's LI projects. First project was a generic picture why we love certain characters (and Thane got most support, Ash had her supporters too). Visii and her friends created a book and gave it BW.

Also Visii did a second project where we fans wrote down a short "fanfic" for our favorite couple - why Shepard loves Ash in my case. It's another book for the Devs. Maybe I find the links.

I can't do more right now and I doubt any of the BW devs is reading our thread


### EDIT ###

Project 1 - PAX Letters
Includes PDF of that book.

Project 2 - Tribute Letters
Still no PDF available

Modifié par CptData, 14 mai 2012 - 08:51 .

[mnomaha]

Actually there is a facebook page for *all* the shafted romances. Granted, it's more for the ME2 squad, but it sounds like Ashley got shortchanged too. The link is in my signature.

[lil yonce]

dahellraider wrote...

Um, the few of us here have complained many times, there's really not all much we can do. Bioware knows what they did wrong. whether they listen or not is up to them.

There isn't enough discussion in this thread. Most posters say her storyline was "incomplete"  or that the "fix was in for Ash" but there is rarely any elaboration on what was incomplete and rarely does discussion about just what was wrong extend beyond one or two pages or two or three commentators.

[lil yonce]

CptData wrote...

Well, I wrote two letters (technically three, but one didn't get released) for Visii's LI projects. First project was a generic picture why we love certain characters (and Thane got most support, Ash had her supporters too). Visii and her friends created a book and gave it BW.

Also Visii did a second project where we fans wrote down a short "fanfic" for our favorite couple - why Shepard loves Ash in my case. It's another book for the Devs. Maybe I find the links.

I can't do more right now and I doubt any of the BW devs is reading our thread


### EDIT ###

Project 1 - PAX Letters
Includes PDF of that book.

Project 2 - Tribute Letters
Still no PDF available

That's fine. I support that. But we don't dissect her ME3 storyline here. We don't disscet the bad in detail. The devs are reading other threads. They're reading Liara's. Cortez's. Samara's since ME3's release. The writers of those charaters have commented in those threads on player concerns. They can respond to ours as well.

[CptData]

mnomaha wrote...

Actually there is a facebook page for *all* the shafted romances. Granted, it's more for the ME2 squad, but it sounds like Ashley got shortchanged too. The link is in my signature.

Basically, all "old" romanced got shafted, except Liara's and Garrus' romances.

Shafted / hardly developed romances:
ME1 - Ashley, Kaidan
ME2 - Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Thane, Samara, Kelly
ME3 - Allers, Cortez

Traynor got a nice arc, Tali had a similar amout of romantic interaction (returns late in the game, therefore reduced story arc).

[CptData]

Youth4Ever wrote...

That's fine. I support that. But we don't dissect her ME3 storyline here. We don't disscet the bad in detail. The devs are reading other threads. They're reading Liara's. Cortez's. Samara's since ME3's release. The writers of those charaters have commented in those threads on player concerns. They can respond to ours as well.

True. But that doesn't mean they change anything. In our case we would be glad if at least the stuff suggested by the leaked script would return plus a meaningful comfort scene after Thessia. And maybe more hints Ash moved in Shepard's cabin.

Won't happen 'though.

Guess they believe we're glad she's back. Well, she's back. Yeah. Halfways.

For a character that's promoted in such impressive way (CGI trailers, own action figure - next to Garrus and Shepard!) Ashley gots too little content and too little impact on the story in ME3.

[mnomaha]

While I'm not trying to minimise the crap that Ashley got, she still got more than most of the ME2 romances (Garrus and Tali excepted) and Kaidan got more than Ashley.

I honestly don't count ME3 romances (I would have counted Vega) and sorry, but I can't stand Allers.

I just...I just don't know what they were thinking...


edit: sorry, trying to be a BSN ninja at work.

What I was trying to say is you are most welcome to join us. It wasn't acceptable in March and it's not acceptable now.

Modifié par mnomaha, 14 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[dahellraider]

There isn't enough discussion in this thread period is the problem. I've done my share in letters and what not, And now I'm ganna wait to see how they do the EC before I continue my discussions on the matter. I just don't like repeating myself many times over is all.

Modifié par dahellraider, 14 mai 2012 - 09:03 .

[lil yonce]

CptData wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

That's fine. I support that. But we don't dissect her ME3 storyline here. We don't disscet the bad in detail. The devs are reading other threads. They're reading Liara's. Cortez's. Samara's since ME3's release. The writers of those charaters have commented in those threads on player concerns. They can respond to ours as well.

True. But that doesn't mean they change anything. In our case we would be glad if at least the stuff suggested by the leaked script would return plus a meaningful comfort scene after Thessia. And maybe more hints Ash moved in Shepard's cabin.

Won't happen 'though.

Guess they believe we're glad she's back. Well, she's back. Yeah. Halfways.

For a character that's promoted in such impressive way (CGI trailers, own action figure - next to Garrus and Shepard!) Ashley gots too little content and too little impact on the story in ME3.

I don't necessarily expect them to change anything. I just want them to talk to us about what happened with Ashley in development. How and why some of the decisions that were made were decided. I want to get their attention and I think we can do that by discussing her personality and role (or lack thereof) in ME3 in more depth.

[Mr. Brainheart]

Youth4Ever wrote...

CptData wrote...

Yeah, kinda. Family issues seem to be the primary content for any given character in the series.

Ashley always was a person caring for her family. No issue with that. Also no issue with the amount of family content in ME3. It's just as you said: the lack of other content. Ash is talking a lot about Shepard's connections to Cerberus but never about Cerberus as organization. We don't learn anything new here - stuff that was interesting got either cut or never addressed at all.
Stuff like:
- past to years (military career)
- connection between her grandfather, TIM and Cerberus (!)
YES! There is one, TIM is a direct result of the surrender of Shanxi.
- Ashley's promotions
- her first days after the loss of Skipper
- why she turned into a silent woman (observatory deck issue)
- ...

Ash and Miranda were handled badly. They were multifacted women. Kaidan, Liara, Tali, Thane, and Jack retain a multifactedness to their storyarcs and personality. Kaidan has his biotics division. Liara is the Shadow Broker. Tali is a Quarian Admiral who retakes Rannoch. Thane fights Kai Leng hand-to-hand - assassin -vs-assassin. Jack is a teacher at Grissom. And what do Ash and Miranda have? They have Sara and Oriana.

Minus that what else to they have? It's sad. We needed to see all of those things you listed Data.

You forget that Ashley needs to be saved in every game. Granted in ME3 it had a noble reason, her trying to save Liara and all, but this has bugged me. What does she really add to the team that any other grunt can't except personality? It pains me to say very little, and I'm fine with it one some level, but there's no balance.

Youth4Ever wrote...

But because of the way the coup attempt storyline is constructed you can't fix the relationship, which I'm fine with. I just wanted them to try to fix it. To try to get to the root of their emotional distance and try to fix it like a real couple who wants to work things out does.

They don't talk about Cerberus or the Collector mission. They don't talk about Horizon or Ash's apology email. They don't about Shep's two year hiatus. They don't talk about his death and resurrection. They don't talk about her promotion - why she was promoted - or having attened officer canidate school. They don't talk about how she looks different. How she is different. And they want to be a couple again? What exactly do they know about each others lives these days? Nothing.

And no she doesn't metion her faith in God once. I'm peeved about that too. That was cut from her character altogether.

This is the major thing for me, I was expecting to learn new things about Ash, but it's like nothing happened since ME1 and they've run out of stuff to talk about. Her personality changes are something you really need to fill in yourself because at best they are hinted at..It's like talking to an Ashley with Amnesia who's not entirely sure who she is anymore..only her natural characteristics have remained and indeed her family, and her distrust of Shepard.

Youth4Ever wrote...

Well ... lets face it. Shepley-romance is quite decent but not complete. I'd say it feels "not complete" because of lack of non-romantic interactions. I dunno if it's a good idea to resolve all issues in romantic scenes - that should have been done in non-romantic scenes so players who never romanced Ashley still get some nice conversations.

Ah heck with it. I could have done it better. Maybe 'cause I like Ash?

It didn't have to be resolved in romantic context, but it needed to be resolved in some way.

Shepley interaction fails in more than one way?

Fails in every way, more like.

I haven't played it a second time yet, so the only time I saw Ash in ME3 it was in a haze of "OMG MOAR ASH!LOL!YESPLZ!!". So at the time it seemed like what we did get was solid, but it's mostly old ground, we've tread it before either because we've already seen it in ME1, or because it was something that had to be brought up and resolved..Nothing new that was unpredictable and interesting. I liked the romance itself though.

[DWH1982]

Youth4Ever wrote...

I didn't like how she was so unsure of herself for most of the game. After she makes Spectre status she asks Shep what he thinks about it like she's looking for his approval not because - say she doesn't trust politicians and the dirtiest of them all - Udina - promoted her.

 
I dunno, I feel like Ash always had at least a little bit of insecurity under the surface. It seems like it would be the natural by product of spending much of her career fighting for the recognition she deserved. And it makes me remember the "you make me feel good enough" comment from their love scene in ME1.

She's been promoted very fast in ME3, and then given an offer to become a Spectre on top of it. Not long ago, she wasn't even an officer. Can understand such rapid advancement would make her feel a little unsure.

Youth4Ever wrote...

And why can't she decide what to say to Sara at the Memorial Wall? She took a leave of absense to escort her sister to school and took a course of action to deal with Mike her mother diagreed with because she knew it was best for Sara. Her actions don't speak well to her character.

This also doesn't bother me.

In ME1, Ash admits that she's not a "words" person. She has trouble communicating her feelings, which is why she often does that through poetry. She's not Edwin Shepard, the paragon who goes around giving rousing, spurr of the moment speeches that stop 300 year old wars.

She did take a leave of absence to escort her sister to school - an act that involved action. Actually "doing something," which is what Ash is far more comfortable with than talking. But comforting Sara at a memorial for her late husband? Having to come up with words to help someone? Given what she's told  us about herself in the past, yeah, I could see that being more of a problem for her.

Youth4Ever wrote...
And why is she the only one who does any apologizing after the coup attempt? Does anyone esle feel their Shepard was partly to blame for their rift?

Yeah, I have no choice but to agree with you on this one.

It's frustrating for me, because, damn it, Edwin Shepard doesn't even feel she's wrong. Yet I had no way to make Shepard express that.

What I would have given for an interrupt, or something, where Shepard could say:

"Ash, stop. I know you're going to apologize. And I don't want you to.

"When I met you on Horizon, I just wanted to be with you again. I wanted that so badly that I lost sight of my own values, and asked you to abandon your duty to the Alliance to join an operation being undertaken by a terrorist organization. I was mad when you said no. But then I thought about it. I thought about it, and I realized that I was wrong. I had no right to ask you to do that.

"You stood by your values, and, in the end, I respected you more for it. You did what you've always done - you called me out. You held me accoutable. That's what I love about you. That's what I've always loved about you. Don't ever change that about yourself. Don't ever apologize for it.

"I'm sorry, Ash. I'm sorry for what I asked you to do."

THAT is how Edwin Shepard feels about the situation.

And our bar should be higher. We should not be happy we didn't get Jacob Taylor'ed. We should be upest Ash just didn't get better treatment period.

I am unhappy she didn't get better treatment, but I'm actually not quite as unhappy about the treatment she did get as you are.

Modifié par DWH1982, 14 mai 2012 - 09:17 .

[lil yonce]

dahellraider wrote...

There isn't enough discussion in this thread period is the problem. I've done my share in letters and what not, And now I'm ganna wait to see how they do the EC before I continue my discussions on the matter. I just don't like repeating myself many times over is all.

But we need to discuss. We need to analyze and critique and debate her role in her fan thread. The EC is not going to change her ME3 execution.