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[DWH1982]

Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but it's Friday, so I thought I'd post a short dialouge that I wrote.

I might have another one for later today.

**


Shepard: It was nice, visiting with your mother and sisters. I’m glad Sarah is doing okay.

Ash: Yeah. At times, It felt touch and go with her. Losing someone you love. It’s not easy.

Shepard: I know. And I know you do, too.

(they kiss)

Shepard: I don’t know if I’ve ever told you… but I really admire you. For how close you are to your family. I lost everyone I loved on Mindoir. For a long time, my only family was the people I served with.

Ash: I know. But that’s going to be different now, isn’t it?

Shepard:  That it is.

(puts his hand on Ash’s stomach)

Modifié par DWH1982, 25 mai 2012 - 12:32 .

[Rudy Lis]

Nice. That deserves two hands placed on stomach and forming little heart with them.

[CptData]

Awwww =)
I want Shepley kids *g*

@ Rudy:

I know. BW screwed it up with the ranks in more than one way. C'mon: Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got a promotion? Anderson, as you said, the Alliance finest officer and first human Spectre candidate got stuck with "Captain" for several years?

And then ... Ashley. Getting promoted by five ranks within 2 years.

The issues we both have is: we can't explain anything out of the stuff.
For Hackett I can say he's always called an "Admiral". I'd say the "Fleet Admiral" rank is only used in war times and the most experienced Admiral gets promoted to said rank. And maybe Hackett was the most experienced officer they Alliance had? Who knows.
However, there ARE wartime-ranks only in armies of our days and "Fleet Admiral" could be one in the 22nd century.

However, Shepard's lack of promotion and Anderson's lack of progress for several years are hard to swallow if Ash gets promoted by five ranks within very few years. I'm a big fan of Ash (obviously) but I can't see any reason why she should get than honor. She's a brave soldier and went through sh*t no other one would survive, but that also applies on Shepard and most of the crewmates of the Normandy.

Well, technically, Garrus and Tali get their promotions as well ...

[SJNKD]

@rudy I think it means stealth operations, it's what I read on website once, wish I had the link but don't, but I'm not 100% certain.

[Aurora313]

Although I was kind of banking on Shepard getting a battlefield promotion in 3, you have to remember that he's not under Alliance Authority from the majority of games 1+2, he's working for the council and taking orders from the Alliance on the side. In game 3, while he hasn't recieved an official promotion, he's essentially become an Admiral in everything but named rank. I am bummed that he never got past Lieuie Commander, but he's also probably been barred from recieving further promotion and is incredibly lucky that he wasn't kicked back to an NCO for the stint with Cerberus.

Though, yes, Ashley's rapid advancement in ranks. While I am thrilled that I called it months before the leak, I'm annoyed that we get little to no explanation for while. Unless the Alliance was setting her up to be the Second SpecTRe all along... which I rather doubt.

[CptData]

Well, I can see Shepard getting promoted after the Reaper War (if he survives, of course).

A good trade off for Shepard is: he gets a promotion to a Captain but ALSO to "Brevet Admiral". That's just an honorary rank without privileges and pay of an actual Admiral BUT Shepard gets honored for the role he played in the war. In that case he still can get promoted to Admiral way, way later (if he doesn't resign earlier).

I don't think Shepard was acting as an "Admiral" in ME3. He was Hackett's right hand, but acted as a Spectre or Diplomat for most portions of the game. As such, his duties were closer to a full Captain than an Admiral.
Leading the fleet into battle does not mean Shepard HAD the role as an Admiral. However, everyone accepted his lead since it was Shepard who brought all those fleets together. It was Shepard who forged alliances between former enemies.
But it was Hackett who lead the fleet and created the strategy.

Just my interpretation. Shepard never did more than what you would expect from a Captain. ^^


In THAT case it also makes sense Kaidan follows Shepard despite holding a higher rank.
Ash holds the same rank like Shepard but with less experience. I wonder why neither Kaidan nor Ashley were displayed as Shepard's XO since both were the highest ranking officers on board (ignoring Shepard) AND hand picked by Admiral Anderson.

We all know Anderson wanted to use the SR2 as his flagship and commanding platform - so it's most likely Ashley / Kaidan were intented to be the acting Captain of the SR2.

Modifié par CptData, 25 mai 2012 - 01:26 .

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

Awwww =)
I want Shepley kids *g*

And I'll be right here, flying the ship cooking the pork.

CptData wrote...

I know. BW screwed it up with the ranks in more than one way. C'mon: Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got a promotion?

Promotion and awards are two different things.

Maybe there was award, second Star of Terra or Hero of the Soviet Union Alliance, I don't know. Maybe it was delayed by bureacrats till he died (and they decided not to award him posthumously.
But! You DO NOT promote someone if there are no prerequisites for that. Maybe he was promoted to LtCdr just recently, why promote him again?

Rank - is your ability to command unit of certain size.
Award - is sign of your personal skills, valour, bravery.

Don't mix those up.

CptData wrote...

Anderson, as you said, the Alliance finest officer and first human Spectre candidate got stuck with "Captain" for several years?

And? If there was no meaning/reason for him to be promoted? Maybe it was "just right" place for him and he felt that post above will be beyond his abilities? Or maybe he liked his current position and flexibility of it and declined promotion (Shepard's mom - Wrex)?

CptData wrote...

And then ... Ashley. Getting promoted by five ranks within 2 years.

Like I said, her "officerhood" makes negative amount of sense.
Her rise through enlisted ranks - not so much, it could be standard practice, actually - for those who are going to leave after first term, top rank could be corporal. For those who signed longer contract, that could be sort of "commendation". Sort of "candy".

CptData wrote...

The issues we both have is: we can't explain anything out of the stuff.

I can explain most of the stuff. Not Ashley.

CptData wrote...

For Hackett I can say he's always called an "Admiral". I'd say the "Fleet Admiral" rank is only used in war times and the most experienced Admiral gets promoted to said rank. And maybe Hackett was the most experienced officer they Alliance had? Who knows.

I guess Hackett is most experienced Alliance officer ALIVE.
But what's strange - he was first person on screen with 4 bars (Arrival). Anderson was second and only after leaving Earth, IIRC, since in first scenes he wore three. It seems they not just retextured old "parade" dress blue, they remade them as well, maybe not much, at least that slot on the back, plus, of course, textures.

CptData wrote...

However, there ARE wartime-ranks only in armies of our days and "Fleet Admiral" could be one in the 22nd century.

I think I wrote that couple of posts above.

CptData wrote...

Well, technically, Garrus and Tali get their promotions as well ...

Garrus is "advisor", so technically that's not a promotion, that's "outside of boundaries". Authorative figure, apparently, yet out of system.
Quarians are just one big circus. Or kindergarten. Or kindergarten in circus. Well, you got my drift.

SJNKD wrote...

@rudy I think it means stealth operations, it's what I read on website once, wish I had the link but don't, but I'm not 100% certain.

Yeah, stealth operations. Better than slapping obvious insignia on armour, making yourself obvious targets for snipers - wear safety-orange (or lime) armour with target painted on head and chest.
There is no "N" in "special forces", no "B" in rifleman nor infantry, so I guess there is no S in stealth. Maybe Z, or Q. Hard to decided. I'd like Y, but Y fitting intelligence better. And O - medics. Or A for medics and O for all those judicals.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 25 mai 2012 - 01:36 .

[CptData]

Rudy: if you check out the "bars" on the official uniforms, you'll realize they don't make sense at all.

Hackett: 4 GOLDEN bars = Fleet Admiral
Anderson: 3 GOLDEN bars = Admiral

However, in ME1 / ME2 they had those old uniforms and Anderson already had three golden bars ...

Even more confusing:

Shepard's uniform comes with two SILVER bars.
The three Admirals of the "Trial" had two silver bars as well. Actually, only Anderson and Hackett are shown with golden bars in ME3 while every other Alliance officer with official uniform has two silver bars. In other words: those bars do not show any ranks.

Modifié par CptData, 25 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

Rudy: if you check out the "bars" on the official uniforms, you'll realize they don't make sense at all.

Hackett: 4 GOLDEN bars = Fleet Admiral
Anderson: 3 GOLDEN bars = Admiral

However, in ME1 / ME2 they had those old uniforms and Anderson already had three golden bars ...

Even more confusing:

Shepard's uniform comes with two SILVER bars.
The three Admirals of the "Trial" had two silver bars as well. Actually, only Anderson and Hackett are shown with golden bars in ME3 while every other Alliance officer with official uniform has two silver bars. In other words: those bars do not show any ranks.

I think I wrote all that here almost as soon as I came to this thread, about 1 (or 2) hundreds pages back. I listed all known officers and their ranks - when officers with one rank wore different insignia or officers with same insignia were of different ranks.

And I'd say Shepard's bars are not silver, but black. I guess there are three, while that "Alliance control" lady has two, IIRC.

[ExorioN PL]

Why so quiet?

Wake up!

[Johnny_TYS38]

  
 My favorite sheply fanart   

Modifié par Johnny_TYS38, 25 mai 2012 - 03:09 .

[ExorioN PL]

It looks like cutted.

[Td1984]

CptData wrote...

Well, give it a shoot, Aurora. Or is it my turn?

Any thoughts about "how Ash got promoted to LC that quickly?)

One possibility, after the Battle of the Citadel, the Alliance felt she "made up" for any percieved "mistakes" her Grandfather made at Shanxi (personally, I don't think he did anything wrong- he was hopelessly outnumbered/outgunned and had no clue reinforcements were on their way to bail him out so he did the only thing he could). So they started to give her the promotions she deserved (wonder how long she had been Gunnery Chief for). Though it's odd that two years after the Battle of the Citadel, she had only been promoted once, up to Operations Chief, then six months after that, another four ranks up to LC. It would make more sense for her to be Staff Lieutenant as of Horizon (up four ranks from ME), then get one more promotion up to LC in time for the Reaper War.

I know I'm grasping at straws, but it's the best explanation I've got.

[krukow]

She was the only one left from the battle of the citadel that the alliance still had access to. And we don't know what all she did for the alliance after we meet with her on horizon ( I think? I'm semi unfamiliar with the expanded universe). and she had stayed loyal the whole time, so maybe the alliance just saw her as a rising star and a person of need (since she was the only one who had fought the geth and collectors) and promoted her as such?

[BP93]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Interesting. I would re-write ME2 like this:

Outside final mission of ME2 I'm more or less fine with it on large scale. But for ME3 I really preferred to have pro-Cerberus path. I like guys with plan and they are the only one.

Playing as a Pro-Cerberus Shepard in Mass Effect 2 is quite fun. The Illusive Man is much better ally than an enemy. I hate how it makes you hate Cerberus/TIM no matter what in ME3. <_<

[survivor_686]

BP93 wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Interesting. I would re-write ME2 like this:

Outside final mission of ME2 I'm more or less fine with it on large scale. But for ME3 I really preferred to have pro-Cerberus path. I like guys with plan and they are the only one.

Playing as a Pro-Cerberus Shepard in Mass Effect 2 is quite fun. The Illusive Man is much better ally than an enemy. I hate how it makes you hate Cerberus/TIM no matter what in ME3. <_<

Actually I was immediately sucpicious of TIM. I played ME1 and saw what cerberus had pulled
- Luring Alliance marines to Thresher Maw nest and then experimenting on the survivors (at least twice)
- Dropping off Dragon's Teeth on random human colonies and seeing "how" the unknowing colonists turn into husks
- Forcibly trying to convert the Rachni into weapons of war and then dropping them off at Alliance monitoring stations...and then failing to control the Rachni
- Murdering Alliance Admiral whom try and investigate whats happening
- Siphoning off Eezo from Alliance ships (see the codex)

Working with TIM was like working with Bin Laden. You know it was gonna end badly.

No wonder Ash called me out on it.

[BP93]

survivor_686 wrote...

BP93 wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Interesting. I would re-write ME2 like this:

Outside final mission of ME2 I'm more or less fine with it on large scale. But for ME3 I really preferred to have pro-Cerberus path. I like guys with plan and they are the only one.

Playing as a Pro-Cerberus Shepard in Mass Effect 2 is quite fun. The Illusive Man is much better ally than an enemy. I hate how it makes you hate Cerberus/TIM no matter what in ME3. <_<

Actually I was immediately sucpicious of TIM. I played ME1 and saw what cerberus had pulled
- Luring Alliance marines to Thresher Maw nest and then experimenting on the survivors (at least twice)
- Dropping off Dragon's Teeth on random human colonies and seeing "how" the unknowing colonists turn into husks
- Forcibly trying to convert the Rachni into weapons of war and then dropping them off at Alliance monitoring stations...and then failing to control the Rachni
- Murdering Alliance Admiral whom try and investigate whats happening
- Siphoning off Eezo from Alliance ships (see the codex)

Working with TIM was like working with Bin Laden. You know it was gonna end badly.

No wonder Ash called me out on it.

Yeah, but that's also what makes it kind of fun. To play as the bad guy, devil's advocate type thing.

[CptData]

ExorioN PL wrote...

Why so quiet?

Wake up!

Ashley Williams,
Second human Spectre,
proud and strong,
a soldier of the Alliance,
a comrade and close friend,
I'm happy to be yours,
I love you with all of my heart.
You are my soul mate,
the missing part of my life,
now completing me,
now giving me a purpose to fight,
for a tomorrow,
a future,
our future.

- Commander Shepard, Love Letter

[Rudy Lis]

BP93 wrote...

Playing as a Pro-Cerberus Shepard in Mass Effect 2 is quite fun. The Illusive Man is much better ally than an enemy. I hate how it makes you hate Cerberus/TIM no matter what in ME3. <_<

Not hate, but fight against him.

Even Witcher gave us 3 ways. And Witcher 2 - 2.
POOOOLE POSITION!

survivor_686 wrote...

Actually I was immediately sucpicious of TIM.

I wasn't. There are Reapers incoming and we don't have time to argue with each other.
Though sometimes I wanted to give him hug and yell: "Boss! Where the **** have you been?!"

survivor_686 wrote...

- Luring Alliance marines to Thresher Maw nest and then experimenting on the survivors (at least twice)

Luring marines twice, no data on two experiments.
Let's dissect this:
- IIRC "Sole Survivor" mission, Hackett telling you someone killing Alliance scientists. Do I really need to add something on top of it?
- Second batch of marines were those who found Armistice (I hope that's correct) Bane body. So, sad to say, they could be unnecessary witnesses.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Dropping off Dragon's Teeth on random human colonies and seeing "how" the unknowing colonists turn into husks

And many governments tested Chemical and Nuclear weapons on their own soldiers.
Back to Dragon's Teeth. They could use them on prisoners with death sentences. But humans lefts clocks would intervene, so blame Canada Cerberus.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Forcibly trying to convert the Rachni into weapons of war and then dropping them off at Alliance monitoring stations...and then failing to control the Rachni

That rubs me wrong way. Aren't Rachni procreate only from eggs laid by Queen? So no matter how many eggs you've taken - your population is doomed without queen. Or I'm mistaken?
And using them on Alliance makes sense - in case it got public, it will stay inside Alliance. So who don't want to casts shadows on who?

survivor_686 wrote...

- Murdering Alliance Admiral whom try and investigate whats happening

See above - he became liability. Curios and talkative liability. Worst kind.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Siphoning off Eezo from Alliance ships (see the codex)

See above - tests on own people.
Alliance could do that on their own and blame technical issues. But you need massive blowout to get proper tests. Massive malfunctions are hard to believe.

survivor_686 wrote...

Working with TIM was like working with Bin Laden. You know it was gonna end badly.

Don't forget WHO created Bin Laden.

I have impression that Alliance is not tax-funded organisation. So this open a wide array for speculations...

survivor_686 wrote...

No wonder Ash called me out on it.

There are things has to be done, no matter what. You can't do that officially - assign Cerberus with it. If you don't have one - create it.

The only thing I don't like in whole "Cerberus" thing (prior ME3 which I don't like in general), is Overlord project. Illusive man too "calculating" to not understand all advantages David provides, so Overlord outcome should be different in case you leave David to them. But like I said, ME3 makes about -273 sense.

[survivor_686]

Rudy Lis wrote...

BP93 wrote...

Playing as a Pro-Cerberus Shepard in Mass Effect 2 is quite fun. The Illusive Man is much better ally than an enemy. I hate how it makes you hate Cerberus/TIM no matter what in ME3. <_<

Not hate, but fight against him.

Even Witcher gave us 3 ways. And Witcher 2 - 2.
POOOOLE POSITION!

survivor_686 wrote...

Actually I was immediately sucpicious of TIM.

I wasn't. There are Reapers incoming and we don't have time to argue with each other.
Though sometimes I wanted to give him hug and yell: "Boss! Where the **** have you been?!"

survivor_686 wrote...

- Luring Alliance marines to Thresher Maw nest and then experimenting on the survivors (at least twice)

Luring marines twice, no data on two experiments.
Let's dissect this:
- IIRC "Sole Survivor" mission, Hackett telling you someone killing Alliance scientists. Do I really need to add something on top of it?
- Second batch of marines were those who found Armistice (I hope that's correct) Bane body. So, sad to say, they could be unnecessary witnesses.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Dropping off Dragon's Teeth on random human colonies and seeing "how" the unknowing colonists turn into husks

And many governments tested Chemical and Nuclear weapons on their own soldiers.
Back to Dragon's Teeth. They could use them on prisoners with death sentences. But humans lefts clocks would intervene, so blame Canada Cerberus.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Forcibly trying to convert the Rachni into weapons of war and then dropping them off at Alliance monitoring stations...and then failing to control the Rachni

That rubs me wrong way. Aren't Rachni procreate only from eggs laid by Queen? So no matter how many eggs you've taken - your population is doomed without queen. Or I'm mistaken?
And using them on Alliance makes sense - in case it got public, it will stay inside Alliance. So who don't want to casts shadows on who?

survivor_686 wrote...

- Murdering Alliance Admiral whom try and investigate whats happening

See above - he became liability. Curios and talkative liability. Worst kind.

survivor_686 wrote...

- Siphoning off Eezo from Alliance ships (see the codex)

See above - tests on own people.
Alliance could do that on their own and blame technical issues. But you need massive blowout to get proper tests. Massive malfunctions are hard to believe.

survivor_686 wrote...

Working with TIM was like working with Bin Laden. You know it was gonna end badly.

Don't forget WHO created Bin Laden.

I have impression that Alliance is not tax-funded organisation. So this open a wide array for speculations...

survivor_686 wrote...

No wonder Ash called me out on it.

There are things has to be done, no matter what. You can't do that officially - assign Cerberus with it. If you don't have one - create it.

The only thing I don't like in whole "Cerberus" thing (prior ME3 which I don't like in general), is Overlord project. Illusive man too "calculating" to not understand all advantages David provides, so Overlord outcome should be different in case you leave David to them. But like I said, ME3 makes about -273 sense.

To be honest TIM rubbed the wrong way almost immediately. For an organisation whose avowed goal is to protect humanity, an awful lot of their projects negatively affect Humanity and the Systems Alliance (the formal military and poltical arm of humanity).

Thresher Maw project:
- Targeted Alliance Marines (not turians, not the asari).

Rachni project:
- Targeted Alliance Marines (not the turians, asari or anyone else) and Alliance military installations

Dragon Teeth
- Targeted human colonies whom are actively seeking to expand humanity presence in space.

Murdering Alliance Admirals
- Ok this might conceivably be considered self-defence...if you considered a bank robber shooting a cop to be self-defence

The Systems Alliance was set up by 18 of the Earth's largest nations initially. After the First Contact war (and the Alliance's attack and subsequent defeat of the Turian expeditionary force), its likely everyone else jumped in after (we hang together or hang separetly).

As far as we've been led to believe the Systems Alliance receives funding from Earth nations, whom in turn gets resources and revenues from colonies that the Alliance sets up and protects. For all intents and purposes the Alliance represents the military and political will of humanity....something Cerberus has on numerous occasions subverted or attacked.

As far as we know there are no known Cerberus operations against the Batarian Slavers or Saren Arterius. Cerberus can be compared to Al-Qaeda. An organisations that claims to represent the will of a people, when in reality its hobbling them.

Of course the crazy thing is that TIM could have indoctrinated the entire time (recall the last guy whom had glowing blue eyes....)

[DWH1982]

I think it's pretty clear he was fighting indoctrination. The comics established that he was exposed to a Reaper indoctrination device. The exact same one Saren was exposed to, no less. And it was kinda similar to the one Shepard is exposed to if you play Arrival. 

Of course, none of this has to do with Ash:

[survivor_686]

Srry for going off forum topic...here's a picture of Ash


too much?

[Dannycni]

^I don't know I prefer the ingame Ash pics or other pics where she looks more...Ash like.






It's been soooo hot today I just had to down the pub and sit outside all day so I haven't played any ME3 yet, need to get to it soon

Modifié par Dannycni, 25 mai 2012 - 05:40 .

[Rudy Lis]

survivor_686 wrote...

To be honest TIM rubbed the wrong way almost immediately. For an organisation whose avowed goal is to protect humanity, an awful lot of their projects negatively affect Humanity and the Systems Alliance (the formal military and poltical arm of humanity).

You sure that effect was negative? You sure actions weren't sanctioned by Alliance's high command or Alliance' Treasury?

survivor_686 wrote...

Thresher Maw project:
- Targeted Alliance Marines (not turians, not the asari).

Rachni project:
- Targeted Alliance Marines (not the turians, asari or anyone else) and Alliance military installations

Have you read what I was writing?
That was the point - attack your own, to keep it "inside your own kitchen". Or what's your westerners saying there - wash dirty linens on public?
You've seen Council yourself - "it's humanity business". Ideal test case, since nobody cares.

survivor_686 wrote...

Dragon Teeth
- Targeted human colonies whom are actively seeking to expand humanity presence in space.

See above.
Testing on colonists make them relatively safe from spreading and for studying. Plus - informational security.

survivor_686 wrote...

Murdering Alliance Admirals
- Ok this might conceivably be considered self-defence...if you considered a bank robber shooting a cop to be self-defence

I do not tell this is "right" or "legal" or "paladin" or "give +5 to lawful and +10 to good". What if Kahoku dug out links between Alliance and Cerberus? Well, maybe he dug out and they gave him options - poison or shooting himself in temple. Maybe he chose poison to keep it secret from family. Or to prevent doublefire. Hard to explain coroner how victim fell on spikes seventeen times.

survivor_686 wrote...

As far as we've been led to believe the Systems Alliance receives funding from Earth nations, whom in turn gets resources and revenues from colonies that the Alliance sets up and protects.

He-he-he.
So simply put - Alliance is funded by corporations. Practically, Alliance is global private security company, or PMC (only not exactly "Private") and will do what is important for those who pays their bills.

survivor_686 wrote...

For all intents and purposes the Alliance represents the military and political will of humanity....

Humanity? Or those few whe pay their salaries?

survivor_686 wrote...

something Cerberus has on numerous occasions subverted or attacked.

Industrial espionage and sabotage. Heard about them?
It's good to have scapegoat you can blame for anything if things go public. Especially if you pay 50% them and 50% to Alliance.

survivor_686 wrote...

As far as we know there are no known Cerberus operations against the Batarian Slavers or Saren Arterius.

 
If operation was successful, why say anything about it?

survivor_686 wrote...

Cerberus can be compared to Al-Qaeda. An organisations that claims to represent the will of a people, when in reality its hobbling them.

Before performing on official match you have to train. To keep training in secret you forced to do that with someone you know.

[DWH1982]

Dannycni wrote...

^I don't know I prefer the ingame Ash pics or other pics where she looks more...Ash like.

*snip*

I like that picture. It's right after the coup attempt, and when it begins, you know that you're about to get Ash back.

Feels like the real start of when things are back to normal between Ash and Shepard. All they have to do from that point forward is become comfortable with each other enough that they can be in a relationship again.