50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurora313]

I'd go for a walk, but it's nearly bedtime. About 8:30pm here... though I have to admit, my headcanon is slowly shifting from a destroy ending to a Synthesis ending... (Yes, and Shepard comes back in some form in this one too).

I have the feeling that in Syn, Ash wouldn't nessecarily be overly happy about the changes. Hell, she's probably hate them, but then accept that she can't do anything about it and move on to the rebuild efforts. But honestly, it's more about Shepard wanting to save the most lives at the time which is more important to him than a single person's happiness no matter who that person is.

Though, admittedly, I wish I had flycam so I could actually see what the cybernetics looked like on her.

Modifié par Aurora313, 08 juin 2012 - 10:25 .

[Ushanka]

Reapers are too dangerous, need to destroy them. At any cost. Well, at least Shepard has chance to survive, and if not, he dies as hero. Life should be as it was at the beginning, without synthetics.

[CptData]

MegaBadExample wrote...

I find that exercise helps, Aurora. Gets the blood flowing.

And ah... Ash won't win that poll. I find that most of us aren't the type to make noise, even though there's a lot of us. I just hope they fix the bugs.

So I hope too. Definitely want full!Ash back. All those awesome "bugged out" lines Ash had in the script ...

A man needs his dreams, or he's not a man.
A woman needs her dreams too. =)

@Aurora:

The more I think about "synthesis", the less I like it. Before ME3 got released, I thought it was the holy grail. Right now, I think it's just one out of three bad choices. And since the Mass Relays are gone in all three endings and the Reapers make it in two, I'd say: screw it and end 'em all.

My own headcanon brings the Reapers back, the Geth & EDI survive the destruction ending ... so, why picking a worse choice? ^^

Modifié par CptData, 08 juin 2012 - 10:34 .

[MegaBadExample]

Aurora313 wrote...

I'd go for a walk, but it's nearly bedtime. About 8:30pm here... though I have to admit, my headcanon is slowly shifting from a destroy ending to a Synthesis ending... (Yes, and Shepard comes back in some form in this one too).

I have the feeling that in Syn, Ash wouldn't nessecarily be overly happy about the changes. Hell, she's probably hate them, but then accept that she can't do anything about it and move on to the rebuild efforts. But honestly, it's more about Shepard wanting to save the most lives at the time which is more important to him than a single person's happiness no matter who that person is.

Though, admittedly, I wish I had flycam so I could actually see what the cybernetics looked like on her.

How the heck are you going to explain that one? O.o

What's your reason for picking Synthesis over destroy and control? I hate Synthesis. Hate the very idea of it. I imagine Ashley wouldn't be at all happy about it, that's for sure. She probably couldn't even bare to look at Shepard for awhile knowing he changed humanity into that monstrosity. It'll be even worst when he tells her that he had the option to just simply end the reapers. She'll freak out.

 And the worst thing above all else - Ashley's eyes turn green!

[CptData]

Those pretty eyes need to be brown.

Right, MBE? ^^

[MegaBadExample]

Right Data!

Brown or GTFO.

[Aurora313]

Take a look at some of the forums that Ieldra2 started. There's actually some interesting points I'm quite intrigued by.

That being said, if it turns out that the Indoctrination theory is true, then Destroy it is. If it turns out that IT is false, then I'm going with synthesis.

Modifié par Aurora313, 08 juin 2012 - 10:41 .

[MegaBadExample]

Ushanka wrote...

Reapers are too dangerous, need to destroy them. At any cost. Well, at least Shepard has chance to survive, and if not, he dies as hero. Life should be as it was at the beginning, without synthetics.

I agree... I think. I RP, and Destroy is the only option for meh. Why choose the other two when you have destroy? It ends them. That's Shepard's goal.

My Shepard would choose control *IF* they couldn't be destroyed. But they can, and he doesn't want that power like TIM. He wants peace.

And Synthesis? That's a straight out NO. He wouldn't *ahem* "sacrifice the soul of our species."

[CptData]

Don't need to tell me, Aurora - I had some long talks with Ieldra. He has a point. Transhumanism and such isn't bad. In a way he's right - could be the better solution to do the synthesis part.

However, there is also an uneasy feeling ...

- we don't know if Spacekid is telling you the truth.
Even if Shepard is not indoctrinated - why should that boy tell the truth? He's a full AI. And if we learned one thing from unshackled AIs - ask EDI here - there's nothing restricting the Spacekid-AI returning correct data. In short: he can lie.

- the dark energy plot got dropped.
With that plot still around, destruction would be the worst choice and synthesis the best. "Destruction" would take the tool to find a solution for the dark energy problem. Synthesis adds diversity (a portion) to the Reapers which might help to find a solution

- ethical issues
Even if you and me are okay with transhumanism, most others aren't. Salarians are welcoming that development while mankind is divided. Asari, Turians and Krogans seem to oppose that idea, Hanar should be entirely against it. Not sure about the rest.

- diversity
Mass Effect always was about diversity of the races. Javik himself told it was a mistake to NOT allow diversity in his own cycle. If you do the synthesis part, that diversity vanishes or gets weakened by a great deal.

[Aurora313]

The thing is, without the IT, destroy completely and indescriminatly irradicated all synthetic life. EDI, the Geth that swore to serve you of their own free will. Anything synthetically based - hell, even Shepard is bio-synthetic. Even if he survived, he wouldn't be able to see or move properly because his implants which are so thoroughly interrgrated into his body would be fried. He'd be stuck as is.

Thinking about it logically, the Reapers are just as much a slave to the cycle as everyone else is. They are being controlled by the Catalyst, no? The destroy option does just that, destroys them. Control ending just grants them a new puppetmaster. Synthesis - as I understand it from Ieldra2's intepatation - frees them from the Catalyst's control. Paragon Shepard has always been about granting understand and redemption to others should they choose to accept it. Like it or not, the Reapers still are a sentient race.

They may be gruesome in construction and responsible for countless cycles worth of murder, they were forced into that form and into that situation by the Catalsyt. Take away the catalyst's control, they're free to move as individuals. Some may destroy them selves, war with themselves or choose to 'co-exist' on some level with galactic society, even as giantass manuel labours to reconstruct the Citadel.

[Aurora313]

All of them are cyborgs and can actively control their 'evolution' from that point onwards, but that doesn't 'kill' diversity. Individuals still have their thoughts, feelings, drives and tastes. It's like saying I got the same tattoo and dye-job as my best friend. Does that kill our unique personalities? No. It doesn't. 

Sorry, didn't mean to kick up a stick. It's just the whole transhuman idea in general, not just the ME series is very interesting to me.

Modifié par Aurora313, 08 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[CptData]

Well ...

Let's put it down to one question:

If the Crucible-Catalyst-Engine can create energy rendering every single organic to a hybrid of organics and synthetics, why shouldn't it be able to create a form of energy that hits Reapers only?

I'd say, the Geth, EDI and any other synthetic lifeform survived the destruction ending. Of course, EMS should be high enough ...

Whatever, doesn't really fit her. I dislike the endings where the Reapers survive since Shepard's primary goal never got fulfilled then. The destruction ending is Shepard's "free option", while those other two endings got "preselected" by TIM (control) and Saren (synthesis).
Both redeemed themselves in the end (if you have enough paragon), but both needed to destroy themselves - which ultimately leads to "destruction ending" - Shepard's true path.

Of course, no need to accept my interpretation

[MegaBadExample]

Aurora313 wrote...

The thing is, without the IT, destroy completely and indescriminatly irradicated all synthetic life. EDI, the Geth that swore to serve you of their own free will. Anything synthetically based - hell, even Shepard is bio-synthetic. Even if he survived, he wouldn't be able to see or move properly because his implants which are so thoroughly interrgrated into his body would be fried. He'd be stuck as is.

Thinking about it logically, the Reapers are just as much a slave to the cycle as everyone else is. They are being controlled by the Catalyst, no? The destroy option does just that, destroys them. Control ending just grants them a new puppetmaster. Synthesis - as I understand it from Ieldra2's intepatation - frees them from the Catalyst's control. Paragon Shepard has always been about granting understand and redemption to others should they choose to accept it. Like it or not, the Reapers still are a sentient race.

They may be gruesome in construction and responsible for countless cycles worth of murder, they were forced into that form and into that situation by the Catalsyt. Take away the catalyst's control, they're free to move as individuals. Some may destroy them selves, war with themselves or choose to 'co-exist' on some level with galactic society, even as giantass manuel labours to reconstruct the Citadel.

In war there are sacrifices. They shall be remembered in the coming Empire. I ain't turning humanity into a super computer over the heads of the Geth and EDI. Yes, EDI is a friend, and I will miss her like hell, but Shepard has lost most of his friends before. It's the bigger picture that matters, and he has the chance to do what he set out to do - destroy the reapers. He doesn't need to screw around with the space magic to get the job done and finish it (my opinion).

I'm going to read through that thread. But I'm telling you, my mind won't be changed on the subject. I'd sooner take control than Synthesis.

What's your reason for picking Synthesis over control, Aurora?

[Aurora313]

I'm not talking indoctination theory. I'm talking about the base endings without fan theories. But if it does turn out as factual, then I'd take that headcanon.

But one thing I have to correct you there is, Saren wished for submission. Synthesis is more Legion's ending. Legion wanted to co-exist peacefully with the Quarrians, along with the rest of the Geth before buddying up with the Reapers. He sacrificed his life so the Geth could obtain sentience and 'transcend' just basic VI programs. Essentially the same as what Shepard does in Synthesis but on a much larger scale.

@MBE

Simple. As much as I love my Shepard, I simply don't trust him or any man with that kind of power, especially after his willpower was completely Shattered  like it was in the ending. 'Less of course, it's the big guy on high. 'Power Corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

Modifié par Aurora313, 08 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[CptData]

I'm not talking about IT either, Aurora.

The kid can lie. It's an unshackled AI. And EDI said by herself, there's nothing restricting her to return a correct answer on any given question. She decides when giving a honest answer - and when not.

Same for the kids. I don't need the IT here. I'm stating facts. *g*
It's in the boy's interest to keep the Reapers (and himself) alive and therefore he wants to avoid Shepard destroying everything. That's why he tells Shepard ALL synthetic life will perish. But does he tell the truth? Doubt so. And as long as BW is not adding a CGI vid showing all Geth and EDI die in the EC, I stick with that interpretation ... ^^

You have a point about Saren/Legion 'though.

Besides that, I doubt BW will make the "IT" canon.

[Aurora313]

What would he gain by lying? Shepard's there with the power to change, control or destroy them. What would the Catalyst gain by lying about the options?

[MegaBadExample]

Aurora313 wrote...

I'm not talking indoctination theory. I'm talking about the base endings without fan theories. But if it does turn out as factual, then I'd take that headcanon.

But one thing I have to correct you there is, Saren wished for submission. Synthesis is more Legion's ending. Legion wanted to co-exist peacefully with the Quarrians, along with the rest of the Geth before buddying up with the Reapers. He sacrificed his life so the Geth could obtain sentience and 'transcend' just basic VI programs. Essentially the same as what Shepard does in Synthesis but on a much larger scale.

@MBE

Simple. As much as I love my Shepard, I simply don't trust him or any man with that kind of power, especially after his willpower was completely Shattered  like it was in the ending. 'Less of course, it's the big guy on high. 'Power Corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

So... He does not trust himself with that power (control)? But yet he trusts himself enough to make that irreversible decision for everyone else?

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

What would he gain by lying? Shepard's there with the power to change, control or destroy them. What would the Catalyst gain by lying about the options?

Manipulating Shepard so he might pick an option where the Reapers survive maybe?
That kid can not allow Shepard to destroy the Reapers, however, since he's just a hologram, he can't do anything - except manipulating Shepard.

Hell, if I were that boy, I would do the same.

Just asking. C'mon, Aurora. If you don't get that one, you're disappointing me

Modifié par CptData, 08 juin 2012 - 11:20 .

[Aurora313]

.... when you put it that way, he just sounds like a d*uche...

[MegaBadExample]

Heh. Sorry.

[Aurora313]

I was always partial to Synthesis, and after reading through Ieldra2's forums and blogs - I realised 'holy crap, that actually makes more sense then most of the other crap I've read.'

From where I stand, it's destruction if IT is true, Synthesis is IT is false. That's just how my headcanon will go.

[CptData]

Well, I have to accept your Ash has green eyes then, Aurora
Because it's more likely we're going to see a century of love and peace than BW introducing IT as "true".

I stay with the "Spacekid is a goddamn liar theory" (Skiaglt) ^^

[MegaBadExample]

Not trying to sway you or anything. I just want to know your reasons for it. For me, it's easy - destroy. Control next *if* i had too. Synthesis is just a no-go.

From a roleplaying perspective, what made him choose Synthesis, when he had the simple option to destroy? Because of EDI and the Geth? What about the trillions of people, worlds and races which have been lost already? Yet he still carries on. Sacrifice is nothing new to Shepard. In fact, it’s something he’s accustom to.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 08 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[Aurora313]

CptData wrote...

Aurora313 wrote...

What would he gain by lying? Shepard's there with the power to change, control or destroy them. What would the Catalyst gain by lying about the options?

Manipulating Shepard so he might pick an option where the Reapers survive maybe?
That kid can not allow Shepard to destroy the Reapers, however, since he's just a hologram, he can't do anything - except manipulating Shepard.

Hell, if I were that boy, I would do the same.

Just asking. C'mon, Aurora. If you don't get that one, you're disappointing me

Tell ya the truth? I wouldn't. If I were that kid - only I'd be, ya know, a girl, not a boy. - I'd say 'Congrats, you've arrived here. Beaten me, now here's these options for you to choose as well as some of the main pros and cons of each. If you destroy me, I didn't deserve to exist in the first place. You take control of my army? Its yours. You want to transform everyone into Transhumans? Be my guest.'

I honestly would not BS around. I lost, he won, he can do what he wants.

[scotiej]

The thought of synthesis always bothered me too, I could never bring myself to force such a huge change on others. What right does Shepard have to literally rewrite the course of so many cultures and civilizations just because an AI said it would be the right thing. Especially an AI that supposedly controls/leads the Reapers. However, I guess the same could be said for the Destroy and Control endings.

Data is right though, how do we really know that the Catalyst is telling the truth, we never see evidence of all synthetics being wiped out through destroy and even with enough EMS, Shepard will wake up in rubble somehow surviving the explosion, the vacuum of space, atmospheric re-entry, and the impact on Earth. Something went wrong somewhere. More than likely it's just crappy writing but I still like to hold out hope that something better is in the works.

@Aurora; Not trying to persuade you either. If you made your decision, it's entirely yours to make.

Modifié par scotiej, 08 juin 2012 - 11:34 .