50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Ilovewrex53]

Badpie wrote...

meonlyred wrote...

Ashley is good...

Ha!  I love that bit.

Compared to some of the other banter, that one was pretty lame. 

[ADLegend21]

meonlyred wrote...

Ashley is good...

best dialogue in the series.

[Badpie]

Chapter 16 of Untitled is up, just FYI. Surprise... Ashley is in it.

http://www.fanfictio...Untitled_Effect

[ADLegend21]

Badpie wrote...

Chapter 16 of Untitled is up, just FYI. Surprise... Ashley is in it.

http://www.fanfictio...Untitled_Effect

Yayyyyyy!!!!

[Homebound]

ashley's writer.

you know, ive been looking for quite some time for input from ashley's writer about her and all this time i just had to go to the fanthread..

Ive always wanted to understand the thinking behind Ashley's character, why did the writer create a protagonist that so many would despise? Anywhere else, if I asked that, I'd be preaching to the crowd, but no.

He says at the end, "What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here."

I think it goes back to the bear and dog metaphor.

People aren't dogs.

I think this portrayed Ashley along with brushing her off as a bigot, as also rather callous and uncaring despite her job as a soldier who people, at least in the western world, see as symbols of the best of us.

"If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us."
-True enough, but I doubt the option of genocide would be on the top of their list.

"No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary."
-True enough, but only if force was necessary.

"THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US."
-True enough, but these are all last resorts.

I think the writer's point didn't come across because Ashley came off as WILLING to sacrifice that dog so quickly. So heartlessly.


I think that's what the writer "got wrong" in his words.

I think in Mass effect 3, that dog and bear metaphor should be invoked. It just has to. For Ashley to let someone die or fight for them.

Discuss away.

[AkodoRyu]

Hello Ashley Thread, I come with the greetings and a small question

I know some of you were playing with 3D modeling and posed Ash in probably 3DS of Garry's, but does anyone know of any conversion of Ashley's model to XNALara? I'm playing with this program lately, and I'd really like to have a pose-able Ash myself, but having no experience in 3D, I wouldn't even know where to start. So if someone have any info, please PM me

Possible result = kind of unique fanarts?

[V-rex]

Hellbound555 wrote...

ashley's writer.

you know, ive been looking for quite some time for input from ashley's writer about her and all this time i just had to go to the fanthread..

Fair enough.

Ive always wanted to understand the thinking behind Ashley's character, why did the writer create a protagonist that so many would despise? Anywhere else, if I asked that, I'd be preaching to the crowd, but no.

Maybe he didn't expect people to despise her, perhaps he assumed Ashley having trust issues regarding aliens wouldn't have been seen as such a huge 'big deal' especially given that the main theme of the first game was all about acceptance and aligning oneself with new races and cultures.
Perhaps he figured that it made sense, with all this in mind, to have a character play the role of devil's advocate and actually be cautious about the situation. Someone who can actually learn to either throw away their old beliefs and become more enlightened or reinforce said beliefs to a much greater degree then before considering what perspective the player chooses to present her with.

If nothing else, I doubt very strongly that Chris L'otile wrote a flawed, humanized character with intent for half the internet to yell:
"SHE'S MRS. HITLER!"

He says at the end, "What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here."

I'd argue he's being too humble here, his only mistake was not giving Ashley enough oppprtunities to show that she's not the xenophobic 'scum' that people keep labelling her as. Or perhaps it's because, at the risk of sounding like an elitist tosser, mainstreat audiences can't handle complexity and ambiguity.
Think about it, usually in movies if a villain is evil, he skins babies alive and rapes women and murders puppies and cackles wickedly. Given that racism is a trope very often associated with villainy, perhaps to a mainstream audience, anything resembling racism no matter how mild automatically means villainy.

I think it goes back to the bear and dog metaphor.

People aren't dogs.

I think this portrayed Ashley along with brushing her off as a bigot, as also rather callous and uncaring despite her job as a soldier who people, at least in the western world, see as symbols of the best of us.

                    

Sorry about that but I had honestly thought that by now surely it had caught on that in the 'bear dog analogy' Ashley is not talking about humans sacrificing aliens, but about aliens sacrificing humans. That in a crisis situation, if the council races have no other option they will sacrifice or allow to be sacrificed the human race.
Ashley isn't being cynical or heartless or uncaring, she's being cautious because she anticipates alien governments will be cruel and uncaring to humans.
Again, this is more the view of a cynical realist then that of a genocide advocating Lady Hitler.

"If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us."
-True enough, but I doubt the option of genocide would be on the top of their list.

Ashley never said that aliens would actively participate in genocide themselves, her argument was that 'if their backs are to the wall they will abandon us'. She's not saying that genocide is something they do frivolously at the drop of a hat. she's clearly talking about it being a last resort tactic.

"No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary."
-True enough, but only if force was necessary.

When it comes to pushing one's way to the top, often force is necessary. It's how any species even rises to the dominant species on its planet, let alone ruling government.

"THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US."
-True enough, but these are all last resorts.

Yes, these are last resort tactics but in the Mass Effect universe everything is coming worryingly close to being a last resort tactic. Hence Ashley's concerns about danger and risks and government priorities come across as strangely prophetic.

I think the writer's point didn't come across because Ashley came off as WILLING to sacrifice that dog so quickly. So heartlessly.

Please refer to the Charlie Brown picture above. Yes I know said picture was a bit obnoxious and I apologize but sometimes you just can't resist.

I think that's what the writer "got wrong" in his words.

I don't think just because people didn't pay attention to what was written that it's somehow a fault of the writer. When you take the bear dog analogy in its entirety along with the rest of the dialogue it becomes really blatant what Ashley's talking about.
Even then if you get into a later conversation with Ashley, after Virmire, she comments on the whole situation with the bitter use of the phrase:
"They've already sicked us on the Bear!"

I think in Mass effect 3, that dog and bear metaphor should be invoked. It just has to. For Ashley to let someone die or fight for them.

Like I said, the correct example of said analogy being invoked would be if Ashley and Shepard's team were put at risk for the safety of someone else.

Look I know I may have come across as rude in this post, I tried not to be but if I did, I apologize. I respect your views even if I disagree with them and I hope I didn't actually offend you on a personal level.

Modifié par V-rex, 03 août 2011 - 09:24 .

[Homebound]

first thoughts reading replies: I think Ashley wasn't properly conveyed. I think people read into her interpretations as how she looked at other people instead of the knee-jerk survival motto of "Them or us".

@ V-rex

I'd argue he's being too humble here, his only mistake was not giving
Ashley enough oppprtunities to show that she's not the xenophobic 'scum'
that people keep labelling her as.

I think that might be part of why people never really liked Ashley.  Everything we got to know about ashley she told us. she loves poetry, she see's aliens as a threat.  but what people saw was COMPLETELY different. At least for me. She says she's not racist, but then she makes passing comment about how she cant tell between the aliens and the animals. thats HUGE, people see that. People will read into that.

-charliebrownangst-
Nah its cool, this is the mildest response ive gotten from ashleyfans without "troloollololol" appearing in their replies.

I think the bear/dog thing, people interpreted it as how she treated people.

I interpret force as in lethal force or bullying, not willpower. This might apply to how people see Ashley.


And no u werent coming across as rude, i was expecting a s***storm, you have been the best foot forward.
As for having different views, Im curious to see what it is Ashleyfans see that Im obviously completely missing.. "seek first to understand" right?

@elektrego
it felt like Ashley was comparing people with the dog and how the dog was ultimately disposable.

Hmmm..Im curious as to why I didnt interpret Ashley in the same way. To me, the scene conveyed how fearful and distrustful of other people Ashley is predispositioned to be.


ending thoughts: i think the vast majority* of the players saw the other races not as aliens but other people, and to that end saw Ashley's fears as irrational. Sort of like "You cant be friends with Dave, hes -blank-". -blank- being Turian, and the rational, the first contact war.

*Vast majority at least according to the polls I ran awhile ago.

[Homebound]

I always sent Ashley with the fireteam and Kaidan with the bomb. Ashley seemed like the logical choice, Kaidan's a biotic, Ashley has guns. And I always ended up choosing the bomb because, well, someone needs to make sure Kaidan set us up the bomb right?

[AresXX7]

One thing that gets overlooked, with the aliens/animals comment, is the fact that it was a glitch. The devs have stated that it was supposed to only happen near a certain keeper. Unfortunately, it was never fixed and Ash's character took a huge hit because of it.

Also, in regards to the bear/dog analogy, just take a look at what happened in ME2.
Human colonies were being abducted, and the Council turned a blind eye to it.
So, I'd say she wasn't too far off the mark, IMO.

P.S.
The bomb was already set and, IIRC, was tamper-proof, so it really didn't matter where you chose to go ( bomb or AA tower) it was going to go off regardless.

[Deelane]

Badpie wrote...

Chapter 16 of Untitled is up, just FYI. Surprise... Ashley is in it.

http://www.fanfictio...Untitled_Effect

Another great chapter, Badpie.
I always looking forward to the next 

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

AresXX7 wrote...
Also, in regards to the bear/dog analogy, just take a look at what happened in ME2.
Human colonies were being abducted, and the Council turned a blind eye to it.
So, I'd say she wasn't too far off the mark, IMO.

P.S.
The bomb was already set and, IIRC, was tamper-proof, so it really didn't matter where you chose to go ( bomb or AA tower) it was going to go off regardless.

Of course she wasn't far off the mark!!! Remember, she can drill you b/w the eyes at 100 meters! 

Just b/c Kirrahe says it's tamper proof doesn't mean that it is.... ESPECIALLY against the geth. They can adapt technology very quickly. Like how they used the systems on the alarei (tali's loyalty mission) to quickly make more geth.

@ elektego

leaving them to guard the bomb until the last possible moment? What ALL three of them? No way they could hold off the geth by themselves. You can clear the bomb site by going back thus ensuring that the bomb goes off. Whereas if you save the salarians, you aren't exactly ensuring anything other than the lives of the salarians.

It's all a moot point anyway as... the salarians are always saved and the bomb always goes off! lol

and I would LOOOOOVE it if Kirrahe has a grand moment of holding the line in ME3! XD

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

As for the whole racism dog/bear thingy....

Ashley was the Vega of ME1... she was the soldier who hadn't seen anything past training and ground posts. She only knew of the geth through the training vids... same with the other species. She had never experienced them first hand... much how none of us have if we were to meet a new species (like we do in ME1). I think they thought that's how most people would react to aliens. They would be cautious for sure.

It's not really racism, it's just uncertainty of new things. Especially since once she works with them she comes to trust them and as we always have to point out... she is openly against terra firma and cerberus. Both organizations who are notorious for being racist.

[AmyBA]

AresXX7 wrote...

One thing that gets overlooked, with the aliens/animals comment, is the fact that it was a glitch. The devs have stated that it was supposed to only happen near a certain keeper. Unfortunately, it was never fixed and Ash's character took a huge hit because of it.

You know, I actually didn't know the aliens/animals comment was a glitch, so I learned something new. That comment never actually bothered me though, I never took it to mean anything too indepth or overly racist really.

The bear/dog analogy IS the one that bothered me the most, and that was because it was difficult for me to really get the context of how she was using it, it just seemed to really come out wrong. It bothered me because of how easily it could be misinterpreted and how it could be taken in a few different ways. For me, whether the dog represents an equal not, I don't see throwing its life away just for me to survive as viable. I would never choose my life over a friends or over a trusted companions life , and I have in real life put myself in harms way and risked myself to protect a pet and save its life before, so for me it was just not a good analogy to use, lol.

I've never really hated Ash though. Honestly, I always found it VERY frustrating because outside of the Normandy, talking to her on missions and her random squad banter, shes nothing like she is on the ship and she is a lot of fun. I always got just slightly flustered at some of her rather snarky/negative comments toward Liara during conversations and cutscenes on the ship, but if you play the game with the two together in party, they get along quite well and Ash is rather nice to her and even a bit curious and playful with her at times. I always preferred those moments and kept wondering why she was so open and accepting outside of the ship but suddenly so cautious when onboard.

I do think that for Ash it is just a problem with context and perspective, and how some of the things she says can be too easily misinterpreted.

But like AresXX7 pointed out, in ME2 when thousands upon thousands of humans were disappearing and the council didn't care, the first thing that came to mind for me was "Well, Ash was right!"

Modifié par AmyBA, 03 août 2011 - 05:01 .

[ADLegend21]

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

[polarbear98]

ADLegend21 wrote...

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

wonder woman?
also im glad to see im not the only ash lover i was gonna freak if i was

[PseudoEthnic]

AresXX7 wrote...

Also, in regards to the bear/dog analogy, just take a look at what happened in ME2.
Human colonies were being abducted, and the Council turned a blind eye to it.
So, I'd say she wasn't too far off the mark, IMO.

I got two things to say about this:

1) The human colonies that are being abducted are in the terminus systems. The conucil or the Alliance can't do anything major about it.

2) Depending on your choices, the new council can be all-human. Thus, Ashley's analogy would amount to nothing.

[Badpie]

ADLegend21 wrote...

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

Ashley Williams.

[Improving_a_point]

Badpie wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

Ashley Williams.

While Bruce Campbell is the man, I find it offensive you'd compare Sweet Ashley to a man.

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Modifié par Improving_a_point, 03 août 2011 - 07:29 .

[polarbear98]

Improving_a_point wrote...

Badpie wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

Ashley Williams.

While Bruce Campbell is the man, I find it offensive you'd compare Sweet Ashley to a man.

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i think badpie means ashley is a superhero

[Improving_a_point]

polarbear98 wrote...
i think badpie means ashley is a superhero

If that were true, why the hell did my Shepard have to do things? 

[ADLegend21]

Badpie wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

loving the discussion of virmire, glad to see posts but let's switch it up a bit.

Since Garrus has been compared to batman (>.>) what super hero would Ashley be compared to?

Ashley Williams.

bah, you're no fun badpie. I keed.

I'd say she might be similar to batgirl in ME1, learning from Shepard and all but as of ME3 She'd be more of a black widow (totally went from DC to marvel there omg!) since she's now Lethal Ashley, meaning assasinations!!!