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[DWH1982]

Think I'd better go to bed.

I wish I knew if it's a good idea for me to keep coming on here in the evenings. I love my current job, even if it is just a temp position. But I'm exhausted when I come home, and it seems like that translates into me being tempermental on here.

The Ash thread is a good way to relax, but I hate the idea of going off on people all the time.

[FahRENheit06]

Eh, it happens, DWH. It's just a forum. You're not hurting anyone.

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

I know, I read it. Thanks for the explaination! I still don't really like Ashley all that much, but I do however want to get to know her character more and understand her. I will still never romance her since I like the idea of Shepard and Miranda being together, but I am open to hearing more about Ashley's life. The one good thing that I can say about Ash is that I loved it how she was their to comfort her sister at her sister's husband's funeral.

Welcome then, FF13 Fangirl! Maybe we can go back to the beginning. When did you start playing Mass Effect? Did you play 2 first? How did you react to Ashley in ME1? Is there something specific you'd like to know about Ash?

Can't speak for anyone else in the thread, but I liked Miranda as a character. The perfection bit got a little tedious, especially knowing that ME2 had two friggin' characters designed as perfect specimens of their species (Miranda and Grunt). But I thought they did a great job in ME2 thawing Miranda's icy surface to make her sympathetic. Turning her to Shepard's side against Cerberus at the end of the game was one of my favorite parts, and really showed a nice evolution of her character.

- Ren

[LoneStarJedi]

To me, Ash is a very traditional, down to earth, "real" person. Instead of having a character hook, she's the "regular" person, flaws and all, someone the player (or at least I) can identify with. She had a big famly, with a long military tradition, and was new to the big galactic stage. I love all those things about her, makes a great companion/counterpoint to my Shepard. Getting to know her, and having her let you in to her world over the course of the first game was easily one of my favorite romance arcs of any game.

Now, I really like Miranda too. As Ren said, I enjoyed thawing out the "ice queen" and turning her against TIM. Was very dissapointed she wasn't a full-blown romanceable squadmate in ME3. Don't know if I'll bother continuing my Mirimancer Shepard from ME2. Maybe someday.

[FahRENheit06]

Really well said, Jedi

Ash is the girl next door. Mouthy, a little insecure, loyal and just fun to be around. Miranda sort of pulls double-duty, trying to live up to her genes but live down to her father's terrible legacy. Ash joined the Alliance starting out rock-bottom and having to fight every second of every day because of her grandfather's failure at Shanxi during the First Contact War. She's a regular soldier and a nice balance to infamous Shepards because she understands everything about the Life it takes to be a soldier.


- Ren

[Aurora313]

I liked Miranda as a character, but I always got the implication that she was first put there to seduce Shepard into joining Cerberus. Not trying to bash - please don't misunderstand. But why else would TIM put the 'perfect woman' on a tenious Ally's ship if he wasn't going to somehow use her to 'persuade' Shepard to his way of thinking?

At least, that's my EB shepard's reasoning. He doesn't like Miranda at all at the beginning. Kept ordering her to wear clothes (he didn't like the catsuit that much either), but when he helped her with Orianna - that hit home because of his own twin sister. And what she told TIM at the collector base pretty much cermented to my Shepard that she was a fundementally good person that just caught up with the wrong people. That being said, he still doesn't like the catsuit.

Plus, he's into more Latina women. One in particular that gets a promotion or six in the next game.  And doesn't mind her sassing or talking gun mods with him. unowhatimean.

Modifié par Aurora313, 17 juillet 2012 - 02:42 .

[BP93]

Miranda's probably my 2nd favorite character tied with Mordin, kind of like 2A/2B.. I'll leave you to guess who's my #1 favorite...

Her being such an ice cold **** honestly made me laugh my first time playing Mass Effect, as I started with 2. Its like, who the hell pissed in your cheerios lady? LOL But she progressed over the course of the game and grew on me. I liked all the ME2 characters except Tali, but Miranda was the best one.

And then I played ME1...you know what they say; the rest is history.

[BP93]

I'm on ps3 too, after beating ME2 twice I just bought ME1 off Steam for PC. Not perfect but I atleast I played the game.

[BP93]

Haha I bought ME2 in January of this year... coincidence?

We got any March ps3'ers?

[Aurora313]

If you play ME1, for me, it establishes several of her character traits and lays groundwork for her unseen character development in 3. She's not a zealot like most claim, she brings the topic up once in conversation as a offhanded comment then immediately backpedals incase she has offended Shepard in someway -no matter how you respond, she won't mention it again.
As for her socalled 'racism' - uh, Tali calls for the genocide of the Geth in the first two games, why isn't she called out for it?
Ash realistically states that to an Asari for example, between saving a human or another asari, they'll almost always save the other Asari. She also says when the Council's back is to the wall and humanity needs help, they're abandon humans. And guess what happened in 3? Council races are attacked and Humans were left out to dry.

Modifié par Aurora313, 17 juillet 2012 - 02:47 .

[Aurora313]

She knows nothing about Shepard's actions or reasons, as far as she sees, he faked his death and defected. Some whose supposed to be dead and his shows up out of nowhere wearing the wrong colours, emotions are going to be high and wild. Quite frankly, its a very realistic reaction. Same reaction I'd have.

When he hands himself into the Alliance, whose to say he's not there to be a spy for Cerberus, or that it's really 'Shepard'? He's been rebuilt from the ground up and she has no idea if he's just some advanced meatpuppet controlled by TIMmy.

Modifié par Aurora313, 17 juillet 2012 - 03:11 .

[FahRENheit06]

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

@FahRENheit06: Thanks! I
played ME2 first since I only have a PS3, so it can't be helped! I have read the ME Genesis comic that came free with my copy of the game though, so I know a bit about Ash but not much sadly. I would actually like to know one more thing about Ash, why do the Ashley fans still like her, even after she acted really...umm...mean in ME2 and ME3,and constantly thought that Shepard was with Cerberus? It frustrates me, so I am wondering what do Ash fans see in Ashley that I don't, and how can they manage to see past her constant badgering of "are you still working for Cerberus Shepard?" (Hope that this paragraph doesn't sound too mean/blunt, didn't mean for it too.)

It's cool, mate. Everyone has their own preferences. It's cool to have a game that gets you so attached to characters, right? Shows real immersion into the universe.

And that is a pretty big question. Playing Mass Effect 1 is a main reason a lot of us are Ashley fans, because no comic book run-through can really capture her character in the same way Miranda's brief scenes in ME3 don't really sum up her depth of character as a whole. For one, Ashley is a lifelong Alliance brat with several generations of her family all in the military. So Shepard showing up seemingly having quit the Alliance was a shellshock for her,
particularly after being told Cerberus was behind the colony kidnappings. A LOT of your ME1 side missions
involved shutting down shady Cerberus military experiments on husks, rachni and thorian-infected humans, so Cerberus was a pretty dirty word.

And unfortunately for Ash (and Kaidan) fans, you only get a brief email apology to Shepard over their behavior to segue to a make-up conversation that never happened until halfway through ME3. Plus Cerberus kept popping up in ME3 so it was hard for Shepard to really distance himself from TIM and show he was loyal to the Alliance.

I can totally see how Ash's constant questioning of Shepard's motives would probably turn off new fans. It seems like they spend too much time in ME3 having Ash/Kaidan choose between their loyalty to the Alliance and their loyalty to Shepard, which hasn't always been one in the same. But if you give her a chance and a Black Widow and a Revenant assault rifle, she's a buttkicker with a boomstick.


- Ren

Modifié par FahRENheit06, 17 juillet 2012 - 03:16 .

[LoneStarJedi]

Ya, in ME1 there's a loooooot of evidence of just how monstrous Cerberus is. Then after two years of being dead, you show up out of nowhere, working for Cerberus. And IIRC, it was TIM who put out rumors that you were alive and working for him, making you look bad right off the bat. Then you're off to deal with the Collector threat, giving you no time to find your old friends, clear your name, etc. So when you meet Ash/Kaidan on Horizon, they're understandably upset. And for all they know, you're a clone or brainwashed or something. It's just too much for them to deal with.

Ya, things are kind of contrived to make them slow to trust Shepard, but it makes sense at least. She doesn't automatically buy into Shepard's cult of personality just because, she's justifiably skeptical. Unfortunately, it does give a bad impression of her if ME3 is your only real experience with her.

[CptData]

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

I know, I read it. Thanks for the explaination! I still don't really like Ashley all that much, but I do however want to get to know her character more and understand her. I will still never romance her since I like the idea of Shepard and Miranda being together, but I am open to hearing more about Ashley's life. The one good thing that I can say about Ash is that I loved it how she was their to comfort her sister at her sister's husband's funeral.

Well, you still can romance Ash in ME1 and move on in ME2 with Miranda. It's not cheating on Miranda that way

Okay, I'm biased - Ash is simply my favorite LI in the series, despite the fact BW dropped the ball for her character in ME3. To get in touch with her requires to play ME1 and romance her. A friendship path without sexy outcome is - as far as I know - quite difficult for man!Shep if not going after Liara too.

The funny part is: Ashley is a character you won't like after few brief dialogues. She's stubborn, speaks her mind, nearly has no redeeming features as long as you stay on the surface. In that way, Ashley is much like Miranda - Miri is cold towards anyone and to get her soft side, you need to work -really- hard.
In case of Ash it takes not that long, but you need to build up some trust before she's willing to allow you to learn more about her character. And then you learn that Ash is no religious zealot - she just believes in God. She's no racist but distrusts most people she don't know, alien and human alike. She's maybe even a nationalist, but that comes from her military background: every loyal soldier is more or less a nationalist. Even paragon Shepard. Especially guys from USA should understand patriotism - that's Ashley.

However, you need to go through her dialogues to learn all that stuff - plus some own stuff as well, you need to read between the lines.

By the way: the only reason why I still can't romance Miranda is the lack of romantic content in ME3. It's obvious she loves Shepard, but she has too little screentime.

By the way II: In case you do have a PS3, you really should get ME1 and maybe even the full series for PC. Even my old rig is still running ME3 smoothly, so you won't have to spend a small fortune to get one. ME1 itself should cost around $9 or something and ME2 isn't expensive either, 'though I recommend to buy the DLCs. ME3's prize should drop too soon.

As I said, I highly recommend to play ME1 and romance Ashley to get in touch with her. In a lot of points she's sharing features with Miranda. That's why Miri is the second character I'd romance - if I could ignore Ash in ME1

Modifié par CptData, 17 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[DWH1982]

Yeah, I really can't leave Ash behind, which poses problems for romancing other characters.

I like Miranda, but compared to the ME1 romance with Ash, her ME2 romance feels a little empty. I don't mean that as an insult to her. It's just that there's not enough building up to it to make it feel realistic to me. The Ash romance in ME1 had a lot of buildup.

I don't think most of the romances were done very well after ME1, by the way. They have their moments, but it doesn't seem like the same kind of effort was put into them.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

I think I screwed up my Ashley romance.

Romanced Ashley in 1, and then Miranda in 2. When I met Miranda on the Citadel in 3, I told her we still had something going on. Then, when I brought Ashley back on the Normandy after her injury, she doesn't really talk to me. Every time I go to her room, she just says this one line of dialogue, and then that's it. My Shepard is hella cool, and it's really important to him to be able to romance two people at the same time/cheat on them. It's like, his favorite thing.

Anyways, does Ashley just not have that much dialogue, or did I doom the romance?

[SJNKD]

@BR She has a lot of auto dialogue aboard the Normandy, so don't worry. It annoys everyone, if you want to romance Ashley, be nice at the memorial and go to the cafe before heading to Miranda.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

SJNKD wrote...

@BR She has a lot of auto dialogue aboard the Normandy, so don't worry. It annoys everyone, if you want to romance Ashley, be nice at the memorial and go to the cafe before heading to Miranda.

Cool! Thanks for the response!

[FahRENheit06]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I think I screwed up my Ashley romance.

Romanced Ashley in 1, and then Miranda in 2. When I met Miranda on the Citadel in 3, I told her we still had something going on. Then, when I brought Ashley back on the Normandy after her injury, she doesn't really talk to me. Every time I go to her room, she just says this one line of dialogue, and then that's it. My Shepard is hella cool, and it's really important to him to be able to romance two people at the same time/cheat on them. It's like, his favorite thing.

Anyways, does Ashley just not have that much dialogue, or did I doom the romance?

ME3 always gives you basically two chances with any love interest: #1 is the "I like you" or "We should work things out" chat and #2 is the personal mission/date where you confirm your interest. You can have as many #1s going as you're able (in your case, Ash, Miri and probably even Liara), but once you go for #2, all other LIs cease being interested. There's no ME1-style confrontation where you lead them along and then have to pick. Or ME2-style playa behavior where after the Suicide Mission you can hop into everyone's bed with relative impunity. 

- Ren

[Dragon_Claw]

So i´ve just come home & have read the posts. Regarding the change of writers and so on...

This is how ME3 should have ended!  

Modifié par Dragon_Claw, 17 juillet 2012 - 01:58 .

[CptData]

Dragon_Claw wrote...

So i´ve just come home & have read the posts. Regarding the change of writers and so on...

This is how ME3 should have ended!  

Kid:Choose!

Ashley - Tali - Samantha
Shepard: Uhhhmm ... hmmmm ... uhhmmmm ?!
Kid: You run out of time!
Anderson: I'm dying?
Shepard: Hmmmm .... !

Killing me

[BP93]

LoneStarJedi wrote...

Ya, in ME1 there's a loooooot of evidence of just how monstrous Cerberus is. Then after two years of being dead, you show up out of nowhere, working for Cerberus. And IIRC, it was TIM who put out rumors that you were alive and working for him, making you look bad right off the bat. Then you're off to deal with the Collector threat, giving you no time to find your old friends, clear your name, etc. So when you meet Ash/Kaidan on Horizon, they're understandably upset. And for all they know, you're a clone or brainwashed or something. It's just too much for them to deal with.

Ya, things are kind of contrived to make them slow to trust Shepard, but it makes sense at least. She doesn't automatically buy into Shepard's cult of personality just because, she's justifiably skeptical. Unfortunately, it does give a bad impression of her if ME3 is your only real experience with her.

Great song.