50121 réponses à ce sujet

[P. Domi]

[bfoore]

The couldve done by her alot better. Nothing you do with her in ME1 matters in ME3, I kinda wish they didn't mellow her out as much and turn her into a girl who drowns her problems out with liquor. Ash is better than that, Kaidan is actually pretty well written himself.

[bfoore]

I always let her win the drinking game in the Citadel DLC

[SJNKD]

https://www.fanficti...epard-s-Journey

 

Good story, las three four chapters are the best but i love when the citadel gets attacked. pretty funny dialogue between shepard and ash.

[CptData]

That's a thing that struck me in a Citadel dlc video I saw some time ago of someone where Shepard didn't romance Ashley. She was getting flirty with James. I found it very weird as I had never pictured him being someone Ash would be interested in, perhaps she had one too many, or there is more to that guy (or it's bad story telling). I always saw Ashley as a mostly serious woman when it comes to relationships, not the flirty kind. A bit hard to get as well perhaps, a bit insecure at times, keeping her distance, being watchful of people's intentions. But once she opens up, there is a lot of love.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, if she can get with James, despite or thanks to a lot of alcohol, accidents can happen, she may not be as cautious as she seems. Maybe I'm biased, I never liked James, he always seemed kinda shallow to me, not the type of guy Ashley would be attracted to. 

 

Actually, I don't like what her writer did to Ash in ME3 when it comes to drinking. It comes out of nowhere (Ashley is a proper soldier in ME1 without any hints of drinking hard booze at all). In ME3 however, a third of her scenes or so seem to deal with alcohol. I'm not an anti-alcoholic in any way, but I find it odd, especially for Ash. Even if she had a hard time to cope Shepard's death, she rather would work herself to death than starting to drink. That's not Ashley in my eyes: coping her problems with hard work and not cheap booze.

 

The flirty part does fit, however, although I always thought it would fit more to Ash<->Shepard than anyone else. Just think about it: between the attack on Eden Prime and the first "real" flirts between 'em, several months have passed. If Ash is attracted to James, she would do it, of course, but not quite random, like it feels in ME3. BW missed to hint it in some dialogues both might be attracted to each other. Then again, it wasn't too visible with Garrus and Tali too, therefore I can live with that. It still harms Ashley's character, if the once proper soldier!woman starts to flirt with random guys and drinks heavily 'cuz some writer decided it would fit her. It doesn't*. It does fit to the image the younger audience of the ME-series has of "easy women", however.

 

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* Yes, Citadel DLC was one big fanfiction created by BW to give us the "post!war party" we all wanted instead of the bad, bad, bad endings we really got. And of course, what happens on the Citadel stays on the Citadel, or so they say. Still: I'm not talking about drinking!Ash in that DLC, but the overall drinking reference. Yes, nice to watch wasted Ash on the Normandy's floor and Shepard teasing her. But it's a hard insult to her character, if you think about it. Ash can have fun, but I can't see her drinking heavily just to get rid of those images chasing her. She's better than that. Instead of the drinking scene I would have loved to see that dialogue when Ash talks to Shepard about that death!experience ...

[bfoore]

You are correct there about Ash but in my opinion its only another example of how she was poorly treated by the writers of Mass Effect 2 and 3 since her original writer, the guy who created her and knows her best left after ME1. I would have liked to see Ashley a little more in ME2, I feel she could have accompanied you during the Arrival DLC which would have given you the perfect opportunity to smooth over what happened on Horizon(another very poorly written and retconned event involving Ash) and smooth over how she feels about you in ME3. Because lets be honest, I never cheat on Ash and my Shepard goes out of his way to please her in 3 so it confuses the hell out of me when she tells me she trusts me but then out of nowhere shes pulling a gun out at me (another out-of-character event) to albeit protect the councilors from Cerberus. In terms of Garrus and Tali tho, they have been hinted kinda sorta since ME2 and they flirt at several points during the main game in 3 making it very evident that they like eachother beyond friends, most notably when you bring an unromanced Garrus and Tali to the Geth ship after you get Tali as well as several times after that. In my opinion, Bioware did Garrus and Tali the right way. Ashley and James dialogue fits more of that of comrades and nothing really beyond that, kinda like James and Cortez. its not like James and Femshep where you can feel some sexual tension going on between them. 

[Gkonone]

I agree CptData, the alcohol thing was weird, it doesn't fit her character at all and it was focussed on too much.

Not sure if it was a flirt but I remember a scene in ME1 right after the 'Find the beacon' mission where Shepard wakes up and Ashley smiling and looking at Shep, giving away she likes him, I found it a nice touch.

 

I actually didn't know the writer that wrote her story for ME1 left after, that explains a lot.

It certainly explains the ******-poor content in ME2, and in ME3 as well to an extent.

 

And I agree bfoore, they could have done a whole lot more in ME2 with her. That Horizon encounter was terrible, but to some extent understandable given her distrust towards Cerberus. What made it horrible was the fact you couldn't do anything afterwards. No way to reconciliate, can't contact her, look her up, nothing to do really.

I remember feeling quite bummed out after learning that the one email was all I'd get for the rest of ME2.

 

ME3 is a mixed bag for me. It had some great moments, the situation with her sister, the cafe scene at the Citadel and close to the end in the cabin. The Udina encounter I found weird as well, as bfoore mentioned.

The pacing felt off after the hospital scenes, there is a whole lot of nothing before it picks back up near the end, apart from that redundant drunk scene at the ship which also makes no sense given Ashley's personality.

 

 

The Citadel dlc was a let down, the bar scene that was linked on this page reminded me of that. While it was funny and it showed how they like to push each others buttons (if that's the right expression), it didn't really portray the seriousness of their relationship. She could have had that drinking contest with James or anybody really and it wouldn't feel any different. Instead they should have added another moment together more like the cabin scene at the end of ME3.

 

The couldve done by her alot better. Nothing you do with her in ME1 matters in ME3, I kinda wish they didn't mellow her out as much and turn her into a girl who drowns her problems out with liquor. Ash is better than that, Kaidan is actually pretty well written himself.

That's a very good point. You basically start from scratch with Ash in ME3 even if you were faithful in ME2 and regardless of what happened at all really aside from the ' you were with Cerberus I couldn't trust you' gibberish.

I actually never tried a fresh game in ME3 (not importing a save I mean). I wonder if the romance would feel that much different. 

[DWH1982]

I don't have a problem with Ash pulling a gun on Shepard on the Citadel.

 

Yes, she did say she trusts him. But she's a soldier first, as well as a Spectre sworn to protect the Council. Look at it from her point of view - she was running with the Council, taking fire from Cerberus forces, then all of a sudden she's blocked off and Shepard - who she knows worked with Cerberus once in the past - shows up behind her, coming from exactly the same direction that the forces that were chasing her were coming from.

 

She drew her gun because she was surprised (instinct!) and because, regardless of any personal trust for Shepard, it would actually be irresponsible for her to do otherwise until she could get a better read on the situation. I think it's both understandable and in character. If you do treat her well in ME3, it's very easy to talk her down, but, honestly, I think anyone in their right mind would have pointed a gun on Shepard under those circumstances.

 

If you're a Secret Service Agent guarding the president, you wouldn't refuse to point your gun at someone just because of your personal feelings, especially if they show up when you're under fire and you didn't expect them to be there, and they have past connections to the people shooting at you. You'd protect the President until you could figure out what's going on. At least if you're responsible you would. Same situation Ash was in on the Citadel. She's a professional, and her duty comes first.

 

As for the drinking in ME3 - In ME1, Ash invites you to have a drink with her in honor of the end of the First Contact War. My suspicion is that someone at Bioware looked at that scene, thought "Ah, Ashley likes to drink," and as a result we ended up with stuff in ME3 that revolves around her drinking.

[kalikilic]

yup yup and yup. I agree with mostly everything written up there. I was actually thinking about that drinking thing the other day, and I also felt undone with it. why did they let her play up alcohol so much? in my canon she's is a tough soldier too, tomboy and all, but there's these little intricacies about her that restore her femininity and that is what makes her such a beautiful woman. and in ME3 you know, all species are facing doom and the end of their races literally. it was the reapers....and I felt the game didn't show enough character with emotions boiling over in such times of tension. so I had imagined my ash would sooner or later become a bit fragile, having developed trust issues with shepard from ME2 and liking just reaching a tipping point in ME3 when she found out how udina had played her for a fool while she was so forward about pointing a gun at shepard.

 

more intricate things like that serves her character better imo...the drinking thing was just dumb. cant say more about it than that.

[CptData]

Ashley is addicted - to caffeine. At least in my headcanon, she doesn't work without coffee. Before her shift, she needs at least one big cup of coffee, extra strong, no milk, with just a half spoon of sugar. Of course she'll have more cups after that one, but without that morning coffee, she really, really is going to hate that day.

 

Shepard: Set that course, Joker. We might need to be there ASAP.

Joker: Couse plotted. What are we going to find there? It's not in the Reaper controlled territory and none of our fleets are operating in that sector.

Shepard: I know. Just do it.

Joker: Whatever you say. Engaging engines.

Shepard: I heard there's a huge depot of Space Bucks.

Joker: That infamous coffee dealer?

Shepard: Yeah, that one.

Joker: And why that? Do we need coffee shots to bolster our fleets morale? More war assets in shape of coffee beans?

Shepard: No, but it makes that mission more enjoyable.

Joker: Ahh yes. I hope those coffee beans are worth the life of a million people. At least it's not too far away.

Shepard: Believe me, Joker: keeping Ash of my back long enough just to give you that order was hard enough. We're running out of coffee and that means I am running into trouble. No coffee for Ashley? That's worse than a thousand mad Krogans on dope hunting you down because you offended one of their females.

Joker: Oh.

Shepard: Just kidding.

Joker: I see. Course is set and we'll be there in fourteen hours. Anything else?

Shepard: Nah. I just try to keep Ash away from this cockpit.

Joker: *gulps*

[Gkonone]

I don't have a problem with Ash pulling a gun on Shepard on the Citadel.

 

Yes, she did say she trusts him. But she's a soldier first, as well as a Spectre sworn to protect the Council. Look at it from her point of view - she was running with the Council, taking fire from Cerberus forces, then all of a sudden she's blocked off and Shepard - who she knows worked with Cerberus once in the past - shows up behind her, coming from exactly the same direction that the forces that were chasing her were coming from.

 

She drew her gun because she was surprised (instinct!) and because, regardless of any personal trust for Shepard, it would actually be irresponsible for her to do otherwise until she could get a better read on the situation. I think it's both understandable and in character. If you do treat her well in ME3, it's very easy to talk her down, but, honestly, I think anyone in their right mind would have pointed a gun on Shepard under those circumstances.

 

If you're a Secret Service Agent guarding the president, you wouldn't refuse to point your gun at someone just because of your personal feelings, especially if they show up when you're under fire and you didn't expect them to be there, and they have past connections to the people shooting at you. You'd protect the President until you could figure out what's going on. At least if you're responsible you would. Same situation Ash was in on the Citadel. She's a professional, and her duty comes first.

 

As for the drinking in ME3 - In ME1, Ash invites you to have a drink with her in honor of the end of the First Contact War. My suspicion is that someone at Bioware looked at that scene, thought "Ah, Ashley likes to drink," and as a result we ended up with stuff in ME3 that revolves around her drinking.

I can see where you're coming from, and it holds merit. If I remember correct that scene takes place after the hospital scenes where Shepard and Ash reconciliate.

It's part of the bad story telling that has been mentioned. The Ashley romance is really starting from scratch in ME3, regardless of what happened before.

I bet if you start a new game in ME3 it wouldn't be that much different actually.

 

If the relationship would have been a steady one continueing from ME1, I would have found it weird (the Udina scene that is), and that's really what I'm going on. Being in a relationship for several years, battling the greatest threat to the universe together (at least it was in ME1),spending that time together, it should have been a good enough basis for a trusting, loving and good relationship.

But well, that isn't the case, so I could agree to a certain point DWH1982. In ME3 it wasn't a very sound relationship between Shep and Ash.

 

If it were real life and my girlfriend of many years, who I love and trust, would point a gun at me while she should know better, I would have found it weird. Regardless of her position and circumstances. And that's where they went wrong in ME imho. Mostly due to the atrocity that is ME2, romance wise.

[bfoore]

Ashley really likes Ice Cream and coffee in my fanfic as well. But thats not entirely true in terms of her romance, if you're faithful to her she is very nice and lighthearted with you in the hospital scenes and I like to believe being faithful to her and not cheating on her helps you her to trust you and draw down on you during the coup attempt.

[Gkonone]

That is true bfoore, I went out of my way to fix stuff in ME3. Buying stuff, visiting as often as I could, but it still felt a bit meh to me. Almost like salvaging something that has been buried very deep for a long time.

Until the cabin scene I had doubts it was all good actually, they could have done more to show the relationship was solid, but that might be me.

 

One easy solution to solve a lot of this was to just use emailing more. No need for long cutscenes or voiceacting, just a little message goes a long way, easy to implement, doesn't cost a lot of time and resources for Bioware.

A simpe email saying how she feels, and that it's all good, or a 'thank you' email, an 'I love you' email, loads of possibilities there. It may be a bit weird as they're both on the same ship, but people message each other all the time.

I remember that some people here were working on an email mod a long time ago, not sure if that was ever made.

 

Anyway, this topic has probably been discussed a lot over the years. I just notice that it still ircks me when I do a replay of the series.

Probably one of the reasons I don't do those replays a lot anymore.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

That is true bfoore, I went out of my way to fix stuff in ME3. Buying stuff, visiting as often as I could, but it still felt a bit meh to me. Almost like salvaging something that has been buried very deep for a long time.

Until the cabin scene I had doubts it was all good actually, they could have done more to show the relationship was solid, but that might be me.

 

One easy solution to solve a lot of this was to just use emailing more. No need for long cutscenes or voiceacting, just a little message goes a long way, easy to implement, doesn't cost a lot of time and resources for Bioware.

A simpe email saying how she feels, and that it's all good, or a 'thank you' email, an 'I love you' email, loads of possibilities there. It may be a bit weird as they're both on the same ship, but people message each other all the time.

I remember that some people here were working on an email mod a long time ago, not sure if that was ever made.

 

Anyway, this topic has probably been discussed a lot over the years. I just notice that it still ircks me when I do a replay of the series.

Probably one of the reasons I don't do those replays a lot anymore.

 

I agree with what you are saying about the emailing. While I would have preferred to have more conversations, like you said: an "I love you" email or "Thanks for coming by" email would have been nice.

 

I remember the first time I was going through ME2, Horizon was quite crushing. I thought I had done something wrong, but then I got the email. While it only helped me to feel a little better, it did help with the feeling that I had messed up my romance; and that Ash still cares about Shep.

[bfoore]

That is true bfoore, I went out of my way to fix stuff in ME3. Buying stuff, visiting as often as I could, but it still felt a bit meh to me. Almost like salvaging something that has been buried very deep for a long time.

Until the cabin scene I had doubts it was all good actually, they could have done more to show the relationship was solid, but that might be me.

 

One easy solution to solve a lot of this was to just use emailing more. No need for long cutscenes or voiceacting, just a little message goes a long way, easy to implement, doesn't cost a lot of time and resources for Bioware.

A simpe email saying how she feels, and that it's all good, or a 'thank you' email, an 'I love you' email, loads of possibilities there. It may be a bit weird as they're both on the same ship, but people message each other all the time.

I remember that some people here were working on an email mod a long time ago, not sure if that was ever made.

 

Anyway, this topic has probably been discussed a lot over the years. I just notice that it still ircks me when I do a replay of the series.

Probably one of the reasons I don't do those replays a lot anymore.

Yeah, I wish they would have implemented an emailing thing for you and your LI. On the other hand tho, I sort of like going out of my way for Ash. Her romance isn't bad in ME3, all the romances in that game got the shaft because Bioware was too busy trying to force feed Liara down the gamers throat which is one of the reasons I personally can't stand Liara. None of the romances in any of the Mass Effect sequels were quite on par with how ME1 did it, in my opinion and I may seem bias but Ash is the best option for me. I always felt that in the end, through everything that has happened between herself and Shepard, shes worth with it. There is alot of realism in her and Kaidan's romances that you don't see in the alien romances in my opinion. Tho Kaidan is written alot better than Ash(not her fault) is in ME3, its still hands down one of the best romances in the game just because it has a sense of realism. Her and Shepard actually disagree and fight and bicker like real couples in real life sometimes do, like anything in real life nothings ever quite perfect and sometimes **** hits the fan and you gotta batten down the hatches and endure. But like I said before, in the end if you like the person enough or in Ashley and Shepard's case love each other enough, you work through it because they're worth it. 

[kalikilic]

^^

 

I don't think I agree that they fight like a real couple in ME3. Ash and Shep that is. in my opinion there were a lot of unsaid things between them both. the conversations just didn't seem thorough and lively enough, given the massive tension they would have been under. I think ppl keep forgetting that shepard and his crew were out to save a galaxy...that's alotta pressure to be working under. not enough emotion was shown at times in my opinion and the atmosphere was set up in such a way that there was potential for better dialogues and scenes, without the game becoming a soap opera of course.

[themikefest]

I don't have a problem with Ash pulling a gun on Shepard on the Citadel.

 

Yes, she did say she trusts him. But she's a soldier first, as well as a Spectre sworn to protect the Council. Look at it from her point of view - she was running with the Council, taking fire from Cerberus forces, then all of a sudden she's blocked off and Shepard - who she knows worked with Cerberus once in the past - shows up behind her, coming from exactly the same direction that the forces that were chasing her were coming from.

 

She drew her gun because she was surprised (instinct!) and because, regardless of any personal trust for Shepard, it would actually be irresponsible for her to do otherwise until she could get a better read on the situation. I think it's both understandable and in character. If you do treat her well in ME3, it's very easy to talk her down, but, honestly, I think anyone in their right mind would have pointed a gun on Shepard under those circumstances.

 

If you're a Secret Service Agent guarding the president, you wouldn't refuse to point your gun at someone just because of your personal feelings, especially if they show up when you're under fire and you didn't expect them to be there, and they have past connections to the people shooting at you. You'd protect the President until you could figure out what's going on. At least if you're responsible you would. Same situation Ash was in on the Citadel. She's a professional, and her duty comes first.

 

I wasn't too worried about her pointing her weapon at Shepard and if you don't visit her or treat her like crap on Mars, then it gives her that more of a reason to have her weapon pointed at Shepard.

 

What I have a problem with is the squadmates. They don't speak up for Shepard at all and just stand there with their hand/paw/claw whatever up their fifth point of contact to explain the situation. Its especially noticeable if the Salarian Councilor is killed. Ashley has no reason not to believe what Udina showed her, but the squadmates fail to stand up for or rather speak up for Shepard. Its at that point I trust Ashley more than the others.

 

With regards to the Secret Service, Shepard and squadmates would've been dead before the door closed. They see someone with a weapon they will fire. No ifs, ands or buts. The biggest difference is the President has a lot of agents near him while the council only has Ashley/Kaidan.

[survivor_686]

@themikefest

 

I think the game implies that Ashley or Kaidan are the last remaining survivors of the council protection detail assigned to the councillors. Which sort of makes sense her pointing the pistol: they just watched the entire team of elite bodyguards taken out by Cerberus.

[Xilizhra]

With regards to the Secret Service, Shepard and squadmates would've been dead before the door closed. They see someone with a weapon they will fire. No ifs, ands or buts. The biggest difference is the President has a lot of agents near him while the council only has Ashley/Kaidan.

Statistically unlikely, given how many other larger forces Shepard's engaged with immediate exchanges of fire.

 

On Ashley... I do agree, ultimately, that her character was underused in ME3; I kept her in my first playthrough for greater drama later on, but it never really paid off in ME3.

[themikefest]

Statistically unlikely, given how many other larger forces Shepard's engaged with immediate exchanges of fire.

 

You can believe that if you want. But I will side with the secret service

[Xilizhra]

You can believe that if you want. But I will side with the secret service

If you like, though this will of course assume we speak of the UNAS 2185 Secret Service... and keep in mind that that body hasn't always done so well in ME's modernity, as seen in the backstory of the Locust.

[Gkonone]

Well yes, Ash had to defend the council, no one else left to do it so it seemed, but one line I found odd 'Maybe it's not time to give up on you yet' at 1:42 in the video.

Didn't they patch things up at the cafe a while before that? How much does Shep have to do to convince her he's the old Shep, the guy she fell in love with in ME1?

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I found the romance in ME3 lacking, I'll leave it at that.

 

I agree bfoore, the Ash romance was realistic and interesting, and they are a great match, considering they're background, their character (which is of course filled in by the player as far as Shep is concerned, but still) and their interaction. The flirting and teasing played out well. Never saw that with Liara, although I never romanced her, I did see the video's of that romance.

 

[kalikilic]

at least the scene wasn't scripted in such a way where we'd be seeing everyone-shoots-Ashley compilations...that'd just be terrible.

[bfoore]

Those compilations are just sick. I've played video games most of my life and I don't understand the hate Ashley gets as compared to some of the characters in the Mass Effect universe who are actually very racist and genocidal as compared to Ashley who just gets flack because she doesn't like Turians and has trouble trusting Garrus and Wrex with the Normandy. Tali and Wrex for instance are undeniably racist, you cannot deny that. Yet the fandom loves them despite them sharing the "racist" billing for which they condemn Ashley. Hell, the only character in Mass Effect that doesn't openly have hints of xenophobia and racism is probably Liara, Samara, Thane, and a few others that I can't name off the top of my head.

[Xilizhra]

Those compilations are just sick. I've played video games most of my life and I don't understand the hate Ashley gets as compared to some of the characters in the Mass Effect universe who are actually very racist and genocidal as compared to Ashley who just gets flack because she doesn't like Turians and has trouble trusting Garrus and Wrex with the Normandy. Tali and Wrex for instance are undeniably racist, you cannot deny that. Yet the fandom loves them despite them sharing the "racist" billing for which they condemn Ashley. Hell, the only character in Mass Effect that doesn't openly have hints of xenophobia and racism is probably Liara, Samara, Thane, and a few others that I can't name off the top of my head.

Probably because Tali is speciesist solely to the species that almost wiped out her own, and Wrex never claims to be a good person (though I personally don't like him much either). Mordin dealing with his is the subject of his whole character arc, Garrus' I... er, don't remember, Grunt has the same qualification as Wrex.. really, what makes Ashley unique is that she tries to justify it (and presumably isn't a krogan, who tend to be loved in part for their personality flaws as opposed to people trying to explain those flaws away).