50121 réponses à ce sujet

[Obvakhi]

[bfoore]

Yeah but Tali spends a good part of her story arc however trying to justify what is considered to be considered racist and genocidal. But when you find out in 3 that the quarians are just the closests things to space Nazis who got bit in the ass for playing god with the geth and you have to make a choice between them and the geth, Tali tries to justify it, I personally choose the Geth everytime just because of what the quarians are.  Ashley, however doesn't display the qualities of a hardcore racist to which 90% of the fandom condemns her to bomb duty on Virmire for, shes just young, ignorant, and cautious because of what happened to her family and having never served with aliens before. She can be brutally bitchy and shows a lot of insecurities at times but I actually enjoy that about her character. 

[Xilizhra]

Yeah but Tali spends a good part of her story arc however trying to justify what is considered to be considered racist and genocidal. But when you find out in 3 that the quarians are just the closests things to space Nazis who got bit in the ass for playing god with the geth and you have to make a choice between them and the geth, Tali tries to justify it, I personally choose the Geth everytime just because of what the quarians are.  Ashley, however doesn't display the qualities of a hardcore racist to which 90% of the fandom condemns her to bomb duty on Virmire for, shes just young, ignorant, and cautious because of what happened to her family and having never served with aliens before. She can be brutally bitchy and shows a lot of insecurities at times but I actually enjoy that about her character. 

Tali addresses and overcomes it; Ashley never does, really.

[bfoore]

If you unite the two she overcomes it but if your forced to choose between the two, things are different. In terms of Ash, I would say she does. Shes a lot more level headed in Mass Effect 3. But I credit that to the fact that they retconned her after her writer left before the second game. If your a male shepard and you romance her, you can actually help her to become more open minded (one of the many things I love about Mass Effect 1) and she actually lobbies you to save the aliens instead of sacrificing them for the humans at the end of the game. Her writer left after the first one so I think the guys at Bioware took the "ashley is a space racist" thing and kinda ran with it, which sucks but thats just my opinion.

[kalikilic]

lol tali and wrex are undeniably racists. ookkkk then...

[SGT NOOBSTER]

lol tali and wrex are undeniably racists. ookkkk then...

 

I can sort of understand what he meant by that:

 

Tali- because the Quarians a nomads and have secluded themselves from the rest of the universe. It is slightly thier own choosing; however due to how the rest of the galaxy sees them (Suit Rats, scavengers, and I believe at one point they are compared to the Vorcha), they have a general distrust of the rest of the galaxy and are seen as outsiders to begin with.

 

Wrex- well, the genophage. it gets explained why most Krogans distrust a lot of the Council races, "Help us! Thanks for that, but you are too dangerous, so we need to control your population growth." So as with the Quarians, they have a general distrust for other races just due to their history with them.

 

With that said, both Tali and Wrex are very progressive. You can sway them and turn bad situations into not so bad.

 

 

Now with that out of the way, back onto Ash...

 

...ley's thread. Which is why we are here.

[Gkonone]

The other day I started a very old save from ME2 and just did Horizon, that was disappointing of course, but it got me thinking. Playing the trilogy now is a mixed bag, the story and interaction are great but the Ash romance of course still isn't really. It's a weird journey, playing ME2 (played ME1 enough), and probably ME3 again.

I've always found that the romances added a lot to the overal story and experience, but knowing it will all be over in the end is a bit unsettling.

 

To those still playing or just in general, how do see the trilogy now? Is it still worth playing again or have you moved on, perhaps mostly reading or writing canon?

Especially considering Ash won't be in ME4.

 

Edit: I'm hoping for ME5 they bring back the old crew, like they brought Master Chief back. So Shep and Ash can once more save the galaxy. Not necessarily the whole crew, but the core.

But I'm in the minority there, one can dream though.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I still play becuase I enjoy the story and the games. But I do not constantly play (ME3 MP, yes sort of), I also play more when I am actively working on my fic/ canon/ whatever.

 

And I just found this thread:

 

http://forum.bioware...6#entry16816314

 

Will this conversation never end? I mean really, it is so tiring and beating a dead horse. It does seem that this is a little less negative compared to those in the past.

[DWH1982]

I still play. I've more or less learned to tolerate the ending, and I like the ME universe and setting as a whole. I feel like other franchises don't do as great a job at that, especially creating characters that I care about.

[Xilizhra]

I still play becuase I enjoy the story and the games. But I do not constantly play (ME3 MP, yes sort of), I also play more when I am actively working on my fic/ canon/ whatever.

 

And I just found this thread:

 

http://forum.bioware...6#entry16816314

 

Will this conversation never end? I mean really, it is so tiring and beating a dead horse. It does seem that this is a little less negative compared to those in the past.

I doubt it will so long as there are people with different opinions... and since new people are still playing the ME series, that doesn't sound like it'll go away anytime soon.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I know and I understand. I have no problem with people thinking that Ash is a racist, so long as they actually bother to interact with her enough to understand her point of view. If they are unconvinced that she is not a racist after taking the time to talk with her at most opportunities, then fine everyone has their own opinion.

 

I just wish that people would take the time to interact with and spend time with characters and form thier own opinions; rather than have one or two conversations begin wondering then see what the highly opinionated BSN has to say.

[CptData]

Wooohoo. Thread's alive again Sorry for absence, but project management is a hell of a job -.-

 

Ashley: For a guy who hates politicians, you kinda end up with 'em quite often. Tali is an Admiral now, Garrus an advisor to the Primarch, Liara has taken a seat in the Asari Parliament, Wrex is the big boss of all Krogans ...

Shepard: ... and I'm now some sort of an diplomat with Spectre privileges. It's the second half of that job, Ash. You'll get used to.

Ashley: Nah. I'm a soldier. I get paid for shooting things, not to talk them into submission. It's in my blood to work like that.

Shepard: You still do quite a good job with the Council 'though. They seem to respect you more than they did with me before the Reaper War.

Ashley: As a former bodyguard of 'em ... yeah. Well. Still no politician here. A Williams won't smooth-talk her enemies to surrender.

Shepard: Then it's a good thing we had plenty of targets in the war who played by your rules, Ash. Things are different now, you know?

Ashley: And that's what I don't like. I'm glad for ending the war and such, but now we're trying to fix things with words instead of deeds. And you know as good as I do, half of those politicians deserve a good ol' fashioned booting just to knock some sense in their minds. Smooth-talking won't repair anything.

Shepard: Smooth-talking ended the Morning War, you know?

Ashley: Yes, but that's-

Shepard: -just an exception? Not really. It also forged the Krogan-Turian Alliance. It kept the galaxy from joining forces against the Asari, who didn't use their beacon for preparations against the Reapers. And it kept the Salarians out of another war. Believe me Ash, sometimes "shooting stuff" does more damage than not to.

Ashley: Sheesh, you're right, Skip. That's maybe the reason why you keep me around - for the shooting if talking doesn't help anymore.

Shepard: That, plus you're a damn great girlfriend.

Ashley: Awwwww ... now kiss me.

Shepard: Make me.

Ashley: *cocks gun*

Shepard: We kinda have an unhealthy relationship *snickers*

Ashley: Only your part. Only yours.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

Good, as usual. I don't think I have read one of your diaglogues that was not good.

 

I also get a kick out of how the only one that can intimidate Shepard is Ash.

[bfoore]

The other day I started a very old save from ME2 and just did Horizon, that was disappointing of course, but it got me thinking. Playing the trilogy now is a mixed bag, the story and interaction are great but the Ash romance of course still isn't really. It's a weird journey, playing ME2 (played ME1 enough), and probably ME3 again.

I've always found that the romances added a lot to the overal story and experience, but knowing it will all be over in the end is a bit unsettling.

 

To those still playing or just in general, how do see the trilogy now? Is it still worth playing again or have you moved on, perhaps mostly reading or writing canon?

Especially considering Ash won't be in ME4.

 

Edit: I'm hoping for ME5 they bring back the old crew, like they brought Master Chief back. So Shep and Ash can once more save the galaxy. Not necessarily the whole crew, but the core.

But I'm in the minority there, one can dream though.

I personally think that the Ash romance is great. Especially because it stretches out over 3 games but when it comes to the ending? I'm numb to it, it doesn't make me mad or sad like it did before. I made my own closure for Ash and Shepard whilst retconning the end of Mass Effect 3 in a fanfiction.

[CptData]

No need for a full retcon of the enhanced endings, bfoore. I think, it's easy to find some working theories to make my "least unfavorite" ending more enjoyable (Destruction). I don't have a "favorite" ending, since they're simply not a satisfying closure of the story.

 

How to so?

 

Geth survive in my idea. I have multiple ideas how that could happen:

- Some pockets of "deep space Geth" didn't get hit by the Citadel shockwave and kept the Consensus alive. They later helped to restart the entire Geth race.

- The Geth at Earth got destroyed, but they were able to send a warning to the Consensus. All Geth shut down and got reactivated by Quarians after the war.

- The Geth all got destroyed, but the Quarians were able to repair the Consensus and kept the majority of the memories and tuned down Reaper code for full sentient Geth.

 

EDI also survives in my headcanon:

- EDI shut down before the Normandy got hit, preventing her AI core to be fried by the shockwave. Some damage did happen, but nothing Tali couldn't handle.

- EDI got her AI fried, but the damage wasn't too severe for lasting consequences. However, she lost some of her last memories, including her relationship to Joker. Not sure if they hook up again.

- EDI got heavily damaged and it took several months to recover her in most basic form. However, once activated and with the use of her own still intact memories, she was able to repair herself (also took several months).

Also Geth could have helped to fix EDI in any scenario.

 

Normandy SR2 fate (multiple ideas):

- Damaged, but was repaired eventually. Also first of her kind, new generation of frigates are based on her design and also come with own AI. If the Reaper war taught something, then it's to accept AIs as own kind of life - which may find its place in galactic society one day.

Shepard may retire as her CO, but hands over to Ashley.

- Got too damaged to be repaired. EDI's AI core found it's place in the Normandy SR3, which is roughly same size and shape of the SR2, but even more advanced (including an entropy-sink system allowing her to operate for several years without discharging at a planet's magnetic field). Either Shepard is still her CO or Ashley takes over.

- Survived the war but got decommissioned, replaced by the SR3. Also EDI became the new ship's AI. The SR2 is now a museum. Besides that, similar fate of the new ships.

 

And no, no, no, no: Shepard won't get promoted to "Admiral", Ashley won't see another promotion for a while as well. The best fate I can see for both is some sort of "Ambassador" for Shepard (although one with a gun) and Ashley as CO of the (new) Normandy. They won't sit down and do nothing, they won't get more attention than it's appropriate ... you name it. All they did was their duty, so Ash/Shepard say, and they don't want to become "living legends". Humble servants of the Alliance and Citadel space. That's what they are and want to be seen as.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I think I got the basic ideas for where mine goes from you, Data. Similiar, I have a few variations. I kind of cherry picked a few that I had seen across the forums and turned it into my own kind of thing.

 

I like the idea of the Crucible functioning properly (if you believe EMS affects what it targets), yes nearly all the Geth near Earth are destroyed, or damaged beyond repair. But the few that are not in the system or escape are not as badly damaged. And with the Normandy jumping, EDI is repairable.

 

I do promote Shepard though. I mean really, a Lt. Cmdr. for three years? After what happened in ME1, and given his service record already, he realisticly would have been promoted to a full Commander. Which is what I assume, it makes sense.

 

And I agree with Ash not getting another promotion. Ops Chief to Lt. Cmdr.? There is almost nothing that would warrant that jump in about a year. Even with the possibility of being made a Spectre.

[kalikilic]

I just realized how much better the next mass effect games could have been if bioware took their "artistic integrity", threw it out, and wrote the game as a developer who was making money to make better games, instead of simply making games to make more money.

 

we could have still have shepard, and Ashley, saying goodbye to a few of the casts, or even getting the option to travel with a few of them, and face a new threat, in a new game. imagine how something as simple as this would have had fans clawing back to the series; nowadays, most aren't moved by the new game. many don't even care, especially when you got bioware staff saying "hey don't hate on our decisions, even if it was crap. we think its our best work."

 

ah well.

 

they chose *cough*money*cough* artistic integrity instead. they'll proly give us a new protagonist, and we'll have to work our way back with that person, to a place where we were with shepard once. meh.

[bfoore]

I like the destroy ending and not because my shepard lives and gets to be with Ash again. It completes the mission that you've been working 3 games to complete. You signed on to destroy the reapers not make a truce with them, when I'm about to make the "final" decision, personally I think of every friend they took away from me so it makes it easier to send those bastards to hell. I fully blame EA, the same guys who ruined Dead Space 3 and Dragon Age 2 for what happened to Mass Effect 3, that game was written in 2 months and the ending was written in either 5 or 10 minutes(confirmed by Mac Walters) without consultation from the writing staff.  On the subject of "Not Mass Effect 4," its hard to be optimistic with no Shepard or Normandy crew, its also hard especially since none of the staff that brought us the original trilogy are involved with the game (with the exception of the two idiots that wrote the ending of Mass Effect 3) and its hard to be optimistic when I find that Mac Walters is the guy put in charge of writing "Not Mass Effect 4"

[SGT NOOBSTER]

I like the destroy ending and not because my shepard lives and gets to be with Ash again. It completes the mission that you've been working 3 games to complete. You signed on to destroy the reapers not make a truce with them, when I'm about to make the "final" decision, personally I think of every friend they took away from me so it makes it easier to send those bastards to hell. I fully blame EA, the same guys who ruined Dead Space 3 and Dragon Age 2 for what happened to Mass Effect 3, that game was written in 2 months and the ending was written in either 5 or 10 minutes(confirmed by Mac Walters) without consultation from the writing staff.  On the subject of "Not Mass Effect 4," its hard to be optimistic with no Shepard or Normandy crew, its also hard especially since none of the staff that brought us the original trilogy are involved with the game (with the exception of the two idiots that wrote the ending of Mass Effect 3) and its hard to be optimistic when I find that Mac Walters is the guy put in charge of writing "Not Mass Effect 4"

 

I have to agree with you on Destoying the Reapers, to me everything else seems wrong.

 

For the next ME (whatever it is) it will take more than a contraversial ending (The only game ending I would call bad is KoToR II, what happened to the last 2 hours or so? And yes I know that was Obsidian not Bioware.) to make me give up on Bioware and ME. A lot of it is still fantasic writing, and Bioware has a history with being able to create character you can connect with and feel like real people.

 

It may not have Shepard and crew, but I am still interested. Besides we still have ME 1-3, if the end bothers you do the Citadel DLC last and have that as your ending. Which is not a bad idea or goodbye.

[DWH1982]

 

 

I like the destroy ending and not because my shepard lives and gets to be with Ash again.

 

If I'm honest, I have no idea how the fact that Shepard can "live" after the end impacts my preference for destroy. It almost certainly plays a role, since an ending where he can be together with Ash is my preference.

 

That said... I also just fundamentally distrust any ending that leaves the Reapers around. I find synthesis to be kind of dumb and out of sync with the rest of the established canon, not to mention fundamentally disturbing in some of its implications. Control is... better. But it still leaves us with the Reapers, and I simply don't trust that Shepard is completely himself in his new form. Or that he will remain himself. You know what they say about how absolute power corrupts, and controlling the Reapers is about the closest thing to absolute power I can think of.

 

Control also means the galaxy doesn't have a say in its own destiny. Sentient beings should have control over their own fate (a message that's weaved throughout many parts of Mass Effect, especially, I feel, if you play as a paragon), and that means the ability to make their own decisions, good or bad, without some outside force intervening.

[Gkonone]

As much as I hate the ending, even with the extended cut, I would have been more or less fine with it if there'd been a 'Disney' ending option. Shepard has worked his or her ass off over the course of 3 games to save the galaxy, so I feel that should have been a viable option.

Apparently 'Disney' endings are boring, unrealistic and not how real life is, not everything can end well and having a bad ending is more artistic or deep. Oh well.

 

I do wonder if the **** storm could have been largely avoided had that option been there in the first place. As much as (some) people loath 'Disney' endings, there is a reason why they work well.

[DWH1982]

I wouldn't need an ending where everything is perfect, but a more upbeat, unambiguous victory ending would have actually been more in line with the Mass Effect franchise. Look at the endings for ME1 and ME2, then compare them to the ending for ME3. Which of these things is not like the others?

 

To a certain extent, ME was a tribute to those cheesy sci-fi and action movies from the 80s and 90s. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but those movies almost always had a "happy" ending. Bioware created an established pattern with ME1 and ME2, a "feel" for the games, then in ME3 they suddenly replaced it with an ending that felt entirely different. Then they wondered why everyone was upset.

 

The ending for ME3, save for all the things that didn't make sense from a plot and in-universe science standpoint, would have been perfectly fine for another franchise. Mass Effect 3, however, needed a more upbeat "action movie" ending to feel like it was Mass Effect. And we don't have that.

 

As much as I realize they're "cheesy," I loved the endings to ME1 and ME2, both as a tribute to a form of fiction that I still enjoy watching on some lazy Saturday evenings, and because they actually make me feel like I won (as opposed to ME3's ending, which just makes me feel depressed). There are plenty of games, books, movies, etc., out there with a more "realistic" depressing ending. I don't understand why they had to bring that to the franchise for the final installment, and I miss having a typical "Mass Effect" ending when I play ME3.

[Gkonone]

It didn't need to be perfect indeed, but an ending where most or at least some of the crew would be alive and celebrate, I would have preferred that. Shep and Ash settling down or taking a break. Somewhat of a "Disney' ending.

Like you said, the endings of ME1 and 2, they were perhaps cheesy, but it felt good. In ME3, overcoming incredible odds, it would have felt even better.

Shepard united the galaxy to fight an immense threat and all you got was a lousy t-shirt really, with shiny colors.

[themikefest]

Closure for Shepard, for me anyways, would've been in all endings with Shepard dead, is to have everyone standing by his/her grave showing the LI place flowers against the tombstone.

 

And in the breath scene, show the crew gathered in the hospital where Shepard is recovering and another slide with Shepard and LI, with their backs towards the screen, standing together in a field with the sun setting.

[CptData]

No need for a "perfect ending" either. I doubt there can be a perfect ending after all.

 

All I want - and still want - is simply another story with Shepard 'n' co, post-war, just to see how the crew is working without that massive threat named "Reapers". Dealing with Shepard's PTSD, with rebuilding the galaxy. Brining back EDI and the Geth. Securing a fragile peace, now that everyone is finger pointing at Asari and Salarians. Something like that. Call it a "breather episode" between the first and the second trilogy. Hell, a good writer could find another story for Shepard without using another random galactic threat from outer space.

 

Then again, I also can accept BW doesn't want to continue Shepard's story and start something new in the ME universe. In that case, I simply want to know what did happen with him/her, the crew and the Normandy, how his/her decisions played out for the galaxy post-war and such. And then move on, give us a new Commander, a new crew, a new ship and another great story to deal with. That's all. But please, please, please, do it right this time. No badly written scenes anymore, no bad decisions called "artistic integrity". Just do it right.