50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Meldwyn301]

Aurora313 wrote...

*in CIC, Shepard gets a video call* 

Hannah: WHAT THE LIVING HELL!?
Shepard: oh crap...
Hannah: You've got that right, brat!
Shepard: Mum, please. I'm in the middle of -
Hannah: I don't care if you're meeting the seven gods incarnate! You will explain yourself right now, young man.
Shepard: *facepalm* Mum...!
Hannah: And explain why Ashley Williams showed up on my door step, balling her eyes out yesterday saying you were being nothing short of an emotionally dead **** to her!
Shepard: *embarrassed facepalm*

Exactly!!! 

Shepard needs a swift kick in the pants, multiple times over, for his treatment of his loved ones in ME2!!!

[Aurora313]

I sort of edited the original a bit. Go back and re-read it.

[Meldwyn301]

Yes, even better!

The entire crew should dogpile Shepard until he admits he is a total jerk and owes his Mom and Ashley about 1,000 apologies for his insensitive behavior and lack of love!

[Aurora313]

I just see Shepard vaulting over the Hologram display in the CIC now, trying to get the hell off the ship while Tali, Garrus, Chakwas and even Joker chase after him for being a ******.

[CptData]

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

CptData wrote...

Also must say Shepard never called his mother. Isn't it odd? You died, come back and don't have time to say "hi mom, I'm not dead by the way" ? Okay, wasn't in that situation before and won't get any time soon - but seriously.

So that gives me three ideas why Shepard did what he did:

*Snip*

I think: 4. Because He cared he felt like he shouldn't. He was on a suicide mission, what if he returned from the dead only to die again? He'd say hi to his mother, which would make her very happy and he'd die again or he'd say I'm going on a suicide mission. That's pretty cruel. Maybe he was torn by the fact Ashley had to see him when he could be dead again in a matter of...weeks? Ofcourse this requires that pretty quickly after the mission, before Shepard recoverecd from what he'd done arrival happenend and soon after that the trial, ensuring that he wasn't in the state too and didn't have time.

Edit: About the loyalty missions: those were the people that were going with him on the mission, purely pragmatically speaking he needed them to be in top form, or chances were the suicide mission would horribly fail.

That makes sense to me. I just wish BW would have carved that out a bit. Just a bit. Just few lines:

- Horizon -
Ashley: But why didn't you even try calling me, Skip?
Shepard: I couldn't. Ash, I'm on a mission that will most likely take my life again. I felt horrible that I couldn't tell you until now. I felt betraying you, me, the feelings we have for each other. The much I wanted to write you, the much I feared I could die before we had a chance to see each other again. Just didn't want to put another burden on your shoulders, Ash. I believed you accepted my death ... and I didn't want you seeing me dying again.

THAT would had make any sense to me. And to Ash as well.

[Aurora313]

Yes, I agree. Though the idea of Hannah calling up Shepard for a cross-galaxy slap over the head has become an endearing thought now... I might write that. It's something I wouldn't mind seeing actually. Hahaha!

Also, about Brainheart's comment. How could he ensure the crew was in top form, when he wasn't even in top form himself? Though it was entirely his fault. He still got burned by Ash after Horizon, and it reflects in his (mine) actions. Hell, he was bitter as hell about it and as shown in prevous dialogue, would even physically harm himself for being such a jerk.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:37 .

[Aurora313]

At any rate.

I'm amazed how this entire conversation evolved from one drunken/tipsy rant from Shepard at Ashley about his death and why he should have to apologise for it.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:43 .

[Meldwyn301]

The hardest thing for some to do is put themselves in other's shoes. That's what Shepard is, apparently, incapable of doing. Thus he has a lot of open wounds to heal in ME3! Namely, the one in Ashley.

Which, by the way, should make for some really really good make up...ahem, anyway... If Bioware allows him to mature emotionally a bit before he sees her again that is!

Either way, he should get several ears full from Mom and Ashley!

[Mr. Brainheart]

Hmm I've always seen Shepard as a bit of an altruist in that regard: He'll put the others above of himself, neglecting his own feelings for his crew. It's complicated though since I realise my theory doesn't work for every ones shepard, ultimately every Shepard is different. And since my Shep didn't try to meet Ashley, he didn't know what to do when he did see her, thus he locked up (Maybe he had imagined Data's little dialogue about it a few times, but he'd never thought he'd actually have to face her.)

And yes the conversation did gdrift away from the original topic in a rather strange way, still it's quite interesting.

And yes, the thought, that Hannah would call him up for that...I like.

Modifié par Mr. Brainheart, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Aurora313]

Meldwyn301 wrote...

The hardest thing for some to do is put themselves in other's shoes. That's what Shepard is, apparently, incapable of doing. Thus he has a lot of open wounds to heal in ME3! Namely, the one in Ashley.

Which, by the way, should make for some really really good make up...ahem, anyway... If Bioware allows him to mature emotionally a bit before he sees her again that is!

Either way, he should get several ears full from Mom and Ashley!

He's got six months in prison to 'mature' emotionally. Personally, I just think he'll be swimming in his own grief due to the Arrival events, and those six months of inactivity? Gives a man alot of time to think and process. Perhaps anoher reasonable/semi-resonable explination is that while he had intellectially processed everything he had be told, he hadn't been able to emotionally until the mission was done. Now he has six months to think through it all and probably would end up a broken wreak phyiscally and emotionaly by the time ME3 is done.

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

At any rate.

I'm amazed how this entire conversation evolved from one drunken/tipsy rant from Shepard at Ashley about his death and why he should have to apologise for it.

Yap. Besides that - Shepard has not to apologize for his death. That's something he's not really responsible for. However, he should apologize for not even considering talking to Ash, mom etc when he came back, at least by telling them WHY he didn't call them.

Easy as it is. I think I'm going to write a short fic about this.

By the way, different topic: is Shepard still Shepard? It's an ethical question. Let Shepard give Ash an idea:


Ashley: Who in heaven are you?! You're not the Shepard I was fallen in love with ... you're so different, so ... changed.
Shepard: I ... don't know, Ashley. I'm not sure if I am still the same person. When I died ... Cerberus somehow got my corpse back. It was badly burned, every single bone shattered, and dead for weeks. Cerberus reconstructed me out of that corpse, using medical scans on molecular level. They put me together, molecule by molecule, every single neuron, every nanometer ... but they failed in one point: the soul.
I'm not sure if I am the same person or if the Shepard you know died with the Normandy. I look like him, I talk like him, I even feel the same when looking at you, I have his memories. But I don't know if I am still this person - or an entirely new being.


And yes, he IS right. On an ethical POV ME2!Shepard is not ME1!Shepard.

[Aurora313]

God - mummy visiting him in prison. I'd feel sorry for Shepard. Hell, I think Vega would probably go and hide at the wrath of mama-Shep.

[Aurora313]

CptData wrote...

Aurora313 wrote...

At any rate.

I'm amazed how this entire conversation evolved from one drunken/tipsy rant from Shepard at Ashley about his death and why he should have to apologise for it.

Yap. Besides that - Shepard has not to apologize for his death. That's something he's not really responsible for. However, he should apologize for not even considering talking to Ash, mom etc when he came back, at least by telling them WHY he didn't call them.

Easy as it is. I think I'm going to write a short fic about this.

By the way, different topic: is Shepard still Shepard? It's an ethical question. Let Shepard give Ash an idea:


Ashley: Who in heaven are you?! You're not the Shepard I was fallen in love with ... you're so different, so ... changed.
Shepard: I ... don't know, Ashley. I'm not sure if I am still the same person. When I died ... Cerberus somehow got my corpse back. It was badly burned, every single bone shattered, and dead for weeks. Cerberus reconstructed me out of that corpse, using medical scans on molecular level. They put me together, molecule by molecule, every single neuron, every nanometer ... but they failed in one point: the soul.
I'm not sure if I am the same person or if the Shepard you know died with the Normandy. I look like him, I talk like him, I even feel the same when looking at you, I have his memories. But I don't know if I am still this person - or an entirely new being.


And yes, he IS right. On an ethical POV ME2!Shepard is not ME1!Shepard.

The biggest effing mind-f*** would be if ME2 Shepard found ME1 Shepard's corpse in storage on a Cerberus facility during the events of 3. And somehow Cerberus was able to copy ME1 Shepard's brain patterns and mannerisms onto a clone. When Shepard asks about it, Jacob replies, that he was 'pretty sure' Shepard wasn't a clone, leaving room for doubt. So it is justifiable that Shepard of ME2 didn't think of himself being the same individual that was in 1, therefore felt it was unnecessary to contact Ash+Hannah.

They weren't his loved ones. He was just a person who happened to look like someone that Ash and Hannah had cared about.

Also we'd be able to see just how badly damaged Shepard's corpse was. 

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:03 .

[Aurora313]

Is Shepard the real Shepard?

Tricky, and all the more dramatic if the answer is no. Would anyone else find that appealing if the Answer is no? Cause thinking about it, I do. There is certainly a possiblity of Cerberus cloning Shepard and using cybernetics to enhance his physical potential and combat skills

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:15 .

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...
The biggest effing mind-f*** would be if ME2 Shepard found ME1 Shepard's corpse in storage on a Cerberus facility during the events of 3. And somehow Cerberus was able to copy ME1 Shepard's brain patterns and mannerisms onto a clone. When Shepard asks about it, Jacob replies, that he was 'pretty sure' Shepard wasn't a clone, leaving room for doubt. So it is justifiable that Shepard of ME2 didn't think of himself being the same individual that was in 1, therefore felt it was unnecessary to contact Ash+Hannah.

They weren't his loved ones. He was just a person who happened to look like someone that Ash and Hannah had cared about.

Also we'd be able to see just how badly damaged Shepard's corpse was. 

Dunno. Technically, Shepard is still Shepard. Cerberus reconstructed him by using his corpse as base - so they didn't clone him. Just check the movie at the beginning - it's clear they didn't clone him.
Also there wasn't enough brain left to "copy" Shepard's mind. Actually I'm surprised there was enough left to reconstruct him - after all, he went through an athmosphere and should get burnt entirely (friction of air molecules and such). Doesn't matter, somehow there was enough left ot Shepard to use it.

To reconstruct someone's mind you need knowledge of the entire brain - at least on cellular level - and even then it's not sure if the mind in that brain is acting like in the "original", not to speak of the "same mind". It's basically like with those "blue boxes" and AIs - if you copy one AI to several blue boxes, every AI will be an own being and not just a clone, even if all blue boxes are identically.

*sigh*

That's an incredible interesting topic, but doesn't fit into the Ashley thread, so I won't continue talking about it.

[UrusVerra]

CptData - in my playthroughs it always were 3rd case, because it was why I sent my Shepard on the Citadel as soon as I got the Normandy - I even didn't realised that I have a e-mail (so I was curious what message Shepard meant when meeting Anderson). My Shepard tried everything, but WHY there was NO dialogue option to tell her that?!

Uh, it's already another page... Nevermind then)

Modifié par UrusVerra, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:28 .

[Aurora313]

Yea. I know. Sadface... Ashley is sad that we aren't talking about her.

But unfortunately, me need sleep. Would love to chat more, but I got an early start tomorrow.

Shepley for life.
Screw Cerberus, Screw the Alliance, Browncoats (Aka Shep+Ash riding through their Normandy-shaped/sized chariot) for life and all that jazz.

THat's another thing I want to see. The Alliance covers up everything of note. I want Shepard to overthrow it!
There's what happened to Jacob, what happened to Mindoir, what happened to Vega, Ash, Shepard and Pierce (stay tuned to Duet Effect on ff.net for details). Kasumi's lover's data about the Alliance, The Shadowbroker resources, the seedy politics of Udina. Any number of things we've seen in the game. I think that by the end of it. The Alliance will be split down to it's very core. Half are supports of a reformation, led by Hackett, Shepard, Hannah and Anderson. The other half supports Udina's backhanded bullish!t and Cerberus' point of view.

I would love to see that happen.

And to quote EDI: That is not a joke.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:30 .

[Meldwyn301]

It is definitely the real Shepard that is back in action. That is why I would be so hard on him about his lack of sensitivity to his loved ones. He certainly shows that to his crew at all times, but not to his family/Ashley?

Seems somewhat detached to anyone not on his ship at that moment... not a good trait!

Get it together Shepard, Ashley needs you no matter how hard her exterior seems to be!

[CptData]

Meldwyn301 wrote...

It is definitely the real Shepard that is back in action. That is why I would be so hard on him about his lack of sensitivity to his loved ones. He certainly shows that to his crew at all times, but not to his family/Ashley?

Seems somewhat detached to anyone not on his ship at that moment... not a good trait!

Get it together Shepard, Ashley needs you no matter how hard her exterior seems to be!

That's the spirit. I try to pretend ME2!Shepard is the same person like ME1!Shepard, but scientifically spoken, the both Shepards are different persons. The first one died with the Normandy SR1, the second one got reborn with the SR2.

I wonder if Ashley has similar thoughts, especially since she believes in God. How does she think about all the spiritual stuff? Did Shepards soul came back into his body once he got revived? In that case, what happened with his soul for 2 years? Did his soul live in heaven or suffer in hell?

I must say I do have some problems here, especially since I'm not a dualist. Body and soul aren't two different things to me, therefore, technically ME1!Shepard and ME2!Shepard should be the same. Then again there ARE things we still can't explain, especially when it comes to brain functionality. I bet even two identical brains won't be a guarantee for a similar character.

But back to Ashley: since she's a believer in God she MUST question herself about the fate of Shepard's soul and more important, how did it came back. As far as I know it's a one way to heaven or hell and no one comes back ... or brain dead wouldn't be an issue today once the body is revived.

[Thargorichiban]

Badpie wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

The
only thing I didn't like about her new armor when I was at the panel was
the triangular area that seemed to be cut out of the chestplate. The
only purpose that I can think offhand for it is to see her cleavage.

Other than that the armor looked light, but pretty good.

You were at the panel?  What were they talking about when this was up?  Any cool new info?

Em23 wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

The only thing I didn't like about her new armor when I was at the panel was the triangular area that seemed to be cut out of the chestplate. The only purpose that I can think offhand for it is to see her cleavage.

Other than that the armor looked light, but pretty good.

Are you talking about her supposedly 'proper' armour in the blurry picture, or her catsuit thing as having cleavage? Please say you're talking about the catsuit.

When they had this image up they were talking about the new artbook that they are going to have out. So we should be able to get a clear glimpse of this page again when that comes out. But it's probably going to be after the game.

Unfortunately the triangular hole is in the armor outfit, not the casual one. It does seem to be a cleavage hole but I would welcome a Dev to say what it really is.

[Aurora313]

Alternatively, was his soul trapped in some kind of limbo or purgatory? And did it comeback to him when he awoke for the first time (not attack, before Wilson was trying to kill ya with mechs)? A lot of things can't be explained, but it isn't my imagination that Shepard is acting more... robotic? (I don't mean literally, I mean personality) in ME2? Some one just points and says go, and he does?


I know I was meant to be asleep by now, but too preoccupied with the 'clone mets original shepard' scenario atm... Wow, the interesting stuff I've come up with. Ranging for the Original going on a rampage, to the clone killing Original and massacring the corpse so they couldn't tell who he was. So far, I like what Ive come up with. Might write it down somewhere.

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

Alternatively, was his soul trapped in some kind of limbo or purgatory? And did it comeback to him when he awoke for the first time (not attack, before Wilson was trying to kill ya with mechs)? A lot of things can't be explained, but it isn't my imagination that Shepard is acting more... robotic? (I don't mean literally, I mean personality) in ME2? Some one just points and says go, and he does?


I know I was meant to be asleep by now, but too preoccupied with the 'clone mets original shepard' scenario atm... Wow, the interesting stuff I've come up with. Ranging for the Original going on a rampage, to the clone killing Original and massacring the corpse so they couldn't tell who he was. So far, I like what Ive come up with. Might write it down somewhere.

Why do I fear you're not too far away from what the Devs have in their mind?

Lets say we're going to face "original!Shepard" who's indoctrinated vs player!Shepard (the clone, ME2!Shepard). Or ME2!Shepard gets indoctrinated and at some point in the game the player is forced to swap to "original!Shepard" and his primary mission is to take out indoctrinated ME2!Shepard?

Geez, what a mess.

Poor Ashley. I mean, what should she do if she has to face BOTH Shepards at the same time? Shot the clone? Shot the original? What to do?

(Nice idea for a fanfic ... a really, really dark one.)

[Mr. Brainheart]

It'd be a pretty stupid move to give her armour only to poke holes into it, so to speak.

Also Elek, I like how you incorperated things others told Shepard during ME2, interesting so far.

And Shepard gets emotional during ME2, MShep sounds more emotional than in ME1 allround thanks to a, in my opinion, improved performance from Mark Meer.