50128 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

Somehow I lost the golden thread in this dialogue. Why is Shepard killing whom? ^^

However, time to flee for the next 2 hours or so, have lotsa stuff to do. So no dialogue from me now.
Also need someone providing a new Top-Ash

Modifié par CptData, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:19 .

[Aurora313]

@CptData: ... Vega+Rox sitting in a tree. ect,ect,ect.


Whatever. Does anyone have a clear concept sketch of ME3 Ashie?

Modifié par Aurora313, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

Naah, mine won't fall that badly. But he'll have no problems with taking down a dude that stretches his patience for too long. Like the Weirloc dude that talks all day.

Ashley IS paragon if you ignore the more neutral ways. She's no way renegade, Ash doesn't work like that.

ME1 disagrees with you, Ashley almost constantly suggests the renegade solution, not paragon, only at the very end if you've convinced her of paragon ways can she suggest to save the council. I'd say she's a Renegon and you can turn her into a paragade.

That's in no way saying Ashley is evil or anything, but renegade fits Ashleys pragmatics, let's take the Rachni queen again: The Rachni attacked the species of the galaxy and threw the galaxy into war, even if she says she won't start a war, are her words enough? A renegade wouldn't take the risk, a paragon would give the species a second chance.

You don't have to be over-violant and crazy to be a renegade, but a renegade tries to get the job done no matter what and avoids risking the mission or the galaxy. That's my view on it anyway.

@Aurora; Nope, you've probably seen all the pics that are out there by now and that's not  a lot.We need moar!

Modifié par Mr. Brainheart, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:58 .

[Aurora313]

Fudgeberries.

WTB more Ashie Pictures please!

[UrusVerra]

Brain, you know, I really was shocked when Liara suggested leaving Council and Ash suggested saving them And she is not renegade... She is cautious and... and... well, okay, she IS badass)

Modifié par UrusVerra, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:26 .

[Aurora313]

She's Ashley, man. Badass by definition.

[Mr. Brainheart]

UrusVerra wrote...

Brain, you know, I really was shocked when Liara suggested leaving Council and Ash suggested saving them And she is not renegade... She is cautious and... and... well, okay, she IS badass)

The problem here is the multiple options, in a sense she's both renegade and paragon, depending on how you end the game. But that last act is also pragmatically logical, I mean the Destiny Ascension is a big ship, with a big boomstick!

And aren't renegades cautious too? More so then paragons I'd say, who are more idealistic and allow risks for the chance of good change. Ashley isn't one to compromise the mission or to allow risks like that in that universe. Now if she's still like that in ME3 remains to be seen, but I'm not sure if, for example, Ashley would use the genophage cure? Maybe because she feels like there is no choice in this battle, but not because she has such trust in the Krogan, in my opinion.

Now I agree with you on that she's Badass!

[UrusVerra]

I always felt that renegade is much like Saren in his best time (anyone read 'Revelation'?). I mean, renegade can kill innocent person or unarmed prisoner, or to destroy the whole system without even trying to warn people. Ash is different - she hates whe civilians die and doesn't find fun in killing.

[Aurora313]

I'm not sure who it was, but on the Paragon-Renagade scale. Rena being 0, Para being 10. They listed Ash as about 7. I tend to agree. She is best described as a Para-gade.

[Mr. Brainheart]

But in ME1, before the last act, how is she a paragon, she stands for the Renegade choices not the Paragon. after that it's dependant on whether you convinced her and in ME3 it will be dependant on the writers. But in ME1 she was on the Renegade spectrum of things.

Renegade=/=bad, killing innocents, finding fun in killing, etc..

How does she fit in the shoes of a paragon exactly? Because I can't fit her in that.

[Aurora313]

To finish off the evening.

Ashley: *sighing into her coffee mug* Who'd of thought it would happen to me?
Shepard: What?
Ashley: I'm homeless and job-less all in one night.
Shepard: Been there, done that, Read the book -
Ashley: Seen the movie?
Shepard: Doesn't come out 'til next month.
Ashley: Darn.
Shepard: That's what I said. So, what did they do to screw you over this time?
Ashley: Ah, something about drug use, sharing delusions, so-called 'racist' commentary. Oh - and the Turian Councilor had the audacity to finger quote me.
Shepard: *mocking* Ah yes, 'Reapers'. The immortal race of sentient starships allegedly attacking Earth at this very instant while I sit back in my top hat and monocle, drinking tea like some stereotype english tart. We have dismissed that claim.
Ashley: Heh. Long and short of it.
Shepard: Shoulda let 'em all die back when Sovereign attacked.
Ashley: That's very dark for you Shepard. That what you really think?
Shepard: What I think is I want to win this fight no matter the cost and if its between those three and a thousand people. Three guesses who I'd pick to save.
Ashley: Where's the optimist Shepard I used to know.
Shepard: He stopped being so naive after the Collectors killed him the first time.
Ashley: *silently sipping coffee*
Shepard: Did your family make it out, alright?
Ashley: Yes. They got a few days before the attack. Right now, they're on the Marathon on their way to Setesh in the Hawking Eta cluster. Though I doubt they'll be able to stay there for long. 'bout you?
Shepard: Dad and mum are trying to rally the fifth fleet along with Hackett and Yates' Mobile Fortress Longinus' is already moving towards Arcturus as part of the defensive action. I won't see them for a while.
Ashley: I suppose. And we can't do anything while the Normandy's in transit.
Shepard: Nothing but have sleepless nights, nightmares or long boring, coffee-fueled days.
Ashley: I guess. You still get nightmares, hmm?
Shepard: My life since I woke up on that damned table has been one long nightmare. Haven't slept well in months.
Ashley: It shows.
Shepard: Thank you for that reminder.
Ashley: Just telling how I see it.
*another long silence*
Ashley: Think we'll win?
Shepard: I'm not planning to lose...
Ashley: Ooh-ray, Skipper.
Shepard: Thanks, Ash.


---- 
Yates = new character.
Longinus = New experimental fortress ship. 
For clarification.

Modifié par Aurora313, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:53 .

[UrusVerra]

Cmon, Paragon and renegade are very extreme - Ash has different points of view for different situations. Some of them fit in paragon line, some - in renegade.

[Mr. Brainheart]

UrusVerra wrote...

Cmon, Paragon and renegade are very extreme - Ash has different points of view for different situations. Some of them fit in paragon line, some - in renegade.

Oh I didn't mean to imply she's a full on renegade, like I've said, I consider her to be Renegon. The point I was trying to make is that, to me,  she sooner fits in the renegade mindset then the paragon. Again, that's not a bad thing, both Renegade and paragon have their pros and cons I find her to be too uncompromising and cautious, to be on the paragon spectrum, ofcourse she has paragon in her, but I don't see how what she does and says translates to her falling in the paragon spectrum.

@Aurora; I can imagine them talking with each other about those kind of things whilst sipping their coffee, well done!

Modifié par Mr. Brainheart, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:20 .

[CptData]

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

UrusVerra wrote...

Cmon, Paragon and renegade are very extreme - Ash has different points of view for different situations. Some of them fit in paragon line, some - in renegade.

Oh I didn't mean to imply she's a full on renegade, like I've said, I consider her to be Renegon. The point I was trying to make is that, to me,  she sooner fits in the renegade mindset then the paragon. Again, that's not a bad thing, both Renegade and paragon have their pros and cons I find her to be too uncompromising and cautious, to be on the paragon spectrum, ofcourse she has paragon in her, but I don't see how what she does and says translates to her falling in the paragon spectrum.

@Aurora; I can imagine them talking with each other about those kind of things whilst sipping their coffee, well done!

Nah, I'm kinda on the side of Aurora: Ashley is paragade (more paragon than renegade). She might go for some renegade options for major decisions, no doubt. Rachni Queen IS the best example here, Ashley wouldn't think twice and kill her. And she would do right - after all, the first time I played ME it took full five minutes for me until I decided to let her live.

Then again, lets pick all those smaller ME / ME2 decisions with less impact - I just pick 3:

- Conrad Verner? She would dismiss him, end his hope to become a Spectre or N7, sure, but wouldn't take the renegade path and pointing a gun at him.

- Killing random NPCs by renegade option? I don't think so. I doubt she'd think twice if the guy in front of her just killed another person, but even then she wouldn't murder him. Shooting in his legs so he can't flee? Most likely. 

- Killing that Batarian Sergeant in ME2 that's fixing the attack 'copter by renegade interrupt? Nope. It's not her way. She doesn't sneak behind someone and struck him down with a knife, she wants to look into his face when it happens. So she's straight forward for an open fight but hates sneaky action.


What I'd like to say is: although Ash would pick the renegade options for some major decisions in ME, she wouldn't go for the renegade option in most other (less important) situations. That makes her more paragade then renegon in my eyes. But of course, that's just my oppinion. I just want to see her as "paragade" since it fits better to a paragon!Shepard than renegade or renegon.

Modifié par CptData, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

Nah, I'm kinda on the side of Aurora: Ashley is paragade (more paragon than renegade). She might go for some renegade options for major decisions, no doubt. Rachni Queen IS the best example here, Ashley wouldn't think twice and kill her. And she would do right - after all, the first time I played ME it took full five minutes for me until I decided to let her live.

Then again, lets pick all those smaller ME / ME2 decisions with less impact - I just pick 3:

- Conrad Verner? She would dismiss him, end his hope to become a Spectre or N7, sure, but wouldn't take the renegade path and pointing a gun at him.

- Killing random NPCs by renegade option? I don't think so. I doubt she'd think twice if the guy in front of her just killed another person, but even then she wouldn't murder him. Shooting in his legs so he can't flee? Most likely. 

- Killing that Batarian Sergeant in ME2 that's fixing the attack 'copter by renegade interrupt? Nope. It's not her way. She doesn't sneak behind someone and struck him down with a knife, she wants to look into his face when it happens. So she's straight forward for an open fight but hates sneaky action.


What I'd like to say is: although Ash would pick the renegade options for some major decisions in ME, she wouldn't go for the renegade option in most other (less important) situations. That makes her more paragade then renegon in my eyes. But of course, that's just my oppinion. I just want to see her as "paragade" since it fits better to a paragon!Shepard than renegade or renegon.

I think the thing is we have different definitions of renegade. For me,  someone who falls in the renegade spectrum doesn't have to be a homocidal maniac and doesn't have to put a gun in someones face just because, or punch a reporter. That makes renegade sound like it's always the bad choice. Like I've said before, I view upon it as a mindset: pragmatic and cautious are two words that fit in very well, for me. Paragon I see as more idealistic and trusting.

But you're right there is some room for interpretation here, personally I think her being renegon goes well with my Paragonshep, though they'll surely have discussions about it.

[CptData]

Aye. Now, since we know that Ash isn't paragon or renegade, I can't wait for her first line in ME3. Or the first mission with her as squadmate. Hell, she'll see every "****ty job" Shepard has to go through ... I want her next to me. And Wrex. Okay, scratch Wrex, he's no option, but Ash is and she'll see extensive use in ME3.

So, what will be the first line Ash says in ME3?

My money is on: "Hey Skip, welcome back!"

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

Aye. Now, since we know that Ash isn't paragon or renegade, I can't wait for her first line in ME3. Or the first mission with her as squadmate. Hell, she'll see every "****ty job" Shepard has to go through ... I want her next to me. And Wrex. Okay, scratch Wrex, he's no option, but Ash is and she'll see extensive use in ME3.

So, what will be the first line Ash says in ME3?

My money is on: "Hey Skip, welcome back!"

Welcome back Shepard.

I'm going to do everything I can to get Wrex along for as long as possible...I want some soldier banter between him and Ash, whilst blastin´baddies! *Fingers crossed*

[UrusVerra]

CptData wrote...

Aye. Now, since we know that Ash isn't paragon or renegade, I can't wait for her first line in ME3. Or the first mission with her as squadmate. Hell, she'll see every "****ty job" Shepard has to go through ... I want her next to me. And Wrex. Okay, scratch Wrex, he's no option, but Ash is and she'll see extensive use in ME3.

So, what will be the first line Ash says in ME3?

My money is on: "Hey Skip, welcome back!"

There is no secret that her first line is "Welcome back, Shepard." when Normandy picks him up on Earth. But what will be her first line aboard I wonder

[ADLegend21]

In a conversation with "Badpie's" Ashley on twitter (Held between her and Kallen's twitter account) They talked about stuff and got to the talk of siblings (I role play my Canon's of each gender as siblings with Kallen being the eldest) and I noticed that she has her Ashley drink alot of coffee. Anyone else (who writes stories) have any interesting quirks for Ashley, and anyone who doesn't just imagine that she does a particular thing of human habit like needing a cup of coffee to operate?

[CptData]

ADLegend21 wrote...

In a conversation with "Badpie's" Ashley on twitter (Held between her and Kallen's twitter account) They talked about stuff and got to the talk of siblings (I role play my Canon's of each gender as siblings with Kallen being the eldest) and I noticed that she has her Ashley drink alot of coffee. Anyone else (who writes stories) have any interesting quirks for Ashley, and anyone who doesn't just imagine that she does a particular thing of human habit like needing a cup of coffee to operate?

Some, but not all of them are used yet:

- Ash is speaking three languages: English, Spanish and German. She quit French when realizing "it sounds like Spanish but with a hell of grammar issues".

- coffee: hot, black, tough, with less than a spoon of raw sugar

- since Aurora uses it and I love it as well: she has a thing for beer. Guinness is one of her favorites. She likes german beer as well. American beer is not hers.

- she once used to smoke for a year or so in boot camp but quit smoking once she wasn't able to get new cigarettes on one of the colonies. She's glad she's no longer a smoker. Her favorite brand was "Foxhole's friend No 6 - the tobacco made for soldiers by soldiers".

- Ashley is never seen without her hair bun, however, she's releasing her hair as soon as she's in her own cabin

- She dislikes Turians, mostly b/c of her grandfather. However she respects Garrus and tries to get a deeper understanding of Turian culture since she admires their art of war.

- Ashley uses to have a daily workout of at least 2 hours when not in combat. Her pushup-count is 50 "to get warm" and she loves to push her endurance to new limits.

- Despite the fact she's exercising a lot, she hates "ripped women". Ash thinks they're just no women anymore. Ash also hates anabolic drugs & stuff - "it feels like cheating and leads to nothing."

- Since Ash is already reading poetry she also tries to make her own. Too bad she lacks a good imagination and her writing is mediocre at best. The only one she shows her poetry is her youngest sister who likes it.

More?

Modifié par CptData, 24 octobre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

Some, but not all of them are used yet:

- Ash is speaking three languages: English, Spanish and German. She quit French when realizing "it sounds like Spanish but with a hell of grammar issues".

*Snip rest of the list*

You know,it's amazing how many of those I picture as an Ashley habit. Some of which I hadn't thought of, but instantly seem to fit. Although I don't really see her as proficient in multiple languages,  but I've always thought she has a pretty good understanding of  "Old English"

It seems like our Ashleys have a lot in common!

[CptData]

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

CptData wrote...

Some, but not all of them are used yet:

- Ash is speaking three languages: English, Spanish and German. She quit French when realizing "it sounds like Spanish but with a hell of grammar issues".

*Snip rest of the list*

You know,it's amazing how many of those I picture as an Ashley habit. Some of which I hadn't thought of, but instantly seem to fit. Although I don't really see her as proficient in multiple languages,  but I've always thought she has a pretty good understanding of  "Old English"

It seems like our Ashleys have a lot in common!

I think it's quite common to speak multiple language in 22nd century.
Most of the nations are united into the "Alliance", but I'm sure they're still keeping their own language. Given the fact China will be one of the largest nations it's even more likely the mankind's new "standard language" is Simplified Chinese.
Now since that scenario isn't that favored by most western players lets stick with English as "standard". Spanish will be still a major factor, especially in both Americas, German is a common language in Europe since it's still the most spoken language here (followed by English & French).

Lets say, it's not unusual ppl speak more than two or three languages at the same time even in times with auto-translators.

[Mr. Brainheart]

I suppose, but then again, we don't really know, it's fortunate enough that just about every Alien in the galaxy speaks English, or do they have some kind of universal translator? That kind of stuff is always a bit vage.

but it does make sense that she speaks multiple languages, like indeed Chinese, if we're talking from what we see in our future.

[CptData]

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

I suppose, but then again, we don't really know, it's fortunate enough that just about every Alien in the galaxy speaks English, or do they have some kind of universal translator? That kind of stuff is always a bit vage.

but it does make sense that she speaks multiple languages, like indeed Chinese, if we're talking from what we see in our future.

Know what? In my ME the aliens understand German !!!


By the way I like the idea we're having pretty much the same image about Ashley - and nothing of that stuff is mentioned in the series! I just like to find out stuff about the characters and Ash is the most important character for me. Don't like to make her to a Mary Sue - which is quite easy - but to an authentic character with flaws and edges. We all know she HAS her flaws, but also comes with some great attributes. Poetry is a major factor for me - I love it, it gives her a deeper character.
The stuff about her grandfather General Williams don't add much to her character except that's the drive forcing her to be "better than the best". Also a reason why she's reserved towards aliens - she get better however.

Just wonder if there are ppl with an entire different image of her.

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

Know what? In my ME the aliens understand German !!!


By the way I like the idea we're having pretty much the same image about Ashley - and nothing of that stuff is mentioned in the series! I just like to find out stuff about the characters and Ash is the most important character for me. Don't like to make her to a Mary Sue - which is quite easy - but to an authentic character with flaws and edges. We all know she HAS her flaws, but also comes with some great attributes. Poetry is a major factor for me - I love it, it gives her a deeper character.
The stuff about her grandfather General Williams don't add much to her character except that's the drive forcing her to be "better than the best". Also a reason why she's reserved towards aliens - she get better however.

Just wonder if there are ppl with an entire different image of her.

Indeed, well talking with each other on the thread probably helps shape such similar image, and reading fanfics too. 

And the mention of flaws is important to me, that's what makes her more 'real' then any other Mass Effect person, now most of the characters if not all have flaws, but they tend to focus way to much on one side of a deep character, which makes them look a lot less complicated then they are. With Ashley it felt different, like I hgenuinely had chats with her, not just focussing on one thing (Like most characters) but about lots of things we discussed history, family, religion, love for poetry, and it wasn't just character development for Ashley, but also for Shepard since he often had a say in it/an opinion too. I feel like this needs a hearts-in-abundance smile with it. I hope we get the same depth in ME3, and not an abundant focus on one side of the character(s)