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[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

Trying to stir up some trouble, I see.


ToP:

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 13 novembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Xilizhra]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

Trying to stir up some trouble, I see.

Er, no. I'm just curious, because I didn't expect before all the negative Liara responses to come from Ashley fans. I thought our groups had an understanding.

[Deelane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Er, no. I'm just curious, because I didn't expect before all the negative Liara responses to come from Ashley fans. I thought our groups had an understanding.

Looks like I missed something, er...
I personally like Liara. She is a very nice girl.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Xilizhra wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

Trying to stir up some trouble, I see.

Er, no. I'm just curious, because I didn't expect before all the negative Liara responses to come from Ashley fans. I thought our groups had an understanding.

I think I found the thread that made you think that. Lots of liara hate going on in there. lmao

I'm sure there are some who don't care for liara (me being one) and I'm sure there are others who love her character, but like the VS more. 

It probably has something to do with how Liara always seems to come out unscathed b/c of what seems like blatant favortism toward her character by bioware. So when other characters are constantly being thrown under the bus, of course their fans are gonna hate on the ones who aren't.

Me, I didn't care for Liara in ME1...so none of the leaks or anything like that have affected my opinion of her. 

[Xilizhra]

I don't personally believe that Liara is being unusually favored. The Dragon Age games show that one companion usually has more plot links and is harder to kill than others; not everything can revolve around the protagonist, and making everyone equal in such a large cast is highly difficult.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

Trying to stir up some trouble, I see.

Er, no. I'm just curious, because I didn't expect before all the negative Liara responses to come from Ashley fans. I thought our groups had an understanding.

Hmm, maybe you got me wrong - I like Liara. She's just not my fav character and seems to be a bit "burdened" by the devs. As I stated before, the Devs tried so hard to give Liara a purpose they nearly broke her character. Also said it before, I don't like BW favoritism of her character over any other characters, regardless if LI or not, regardless if ME or ME2. Others seems to be "hate magnets" and BW does nothing against it. It even seems to be done on purpose. Dunno if I'd call this "good writing".
Her romance is arc isn't what I want to see in a relationship, but that's just a matter of taste.

So, topic closed for me. All I want is an equally satisfying story arc (also romance) for Ashley than for Liara. We deserve it as well, especially after all the stuff we went through / may see in ME3.

[Xilizhra]

Hmm, maybe you got me wrong - I like Liara. She's just not my fav character and seems to be a bit "burdened" by the devs.

Well, you did take a jab at her fans.

Others seems to be "hate magnets" and BW does nothing against it. It even seems to be done on purpose. Dunno if I'd call this "good writing".

Should they? Should they try to take away hate from Liara as well?

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmm, maybe you got me wrong - I like Liara. She's just not my fav character and seems to be a bit "burdened" by the devs.

Well, you did take a jab at her fans.

Others seems to be "hate magnets" and BW does nothing against it. It even seems to be done on purpose. Dunno if I'd call this "good writing".

Should they? Should they try to take away hate from Liara as well?

First point: I warned the fans to read my post PLUS I apologized for any harsh words. And they ARE my opinion - I won't take a single word back. I thought we've the freedom of speech?

Second point: As I said before I like Liara. The devs just tried too hard to make her almost as important for the plot like Shepard. Why that? There are other characters, but none of them is used as some kind of "living plot device". You need Liara so she can mindmelt with Shepard a couple of times to find out stuff about the Protheans, the Conduit and Ilos. Without her Shepard could never find out what Saren tries to do.
Liara saves Shepard's corpse so s/he can continue the fight against the Reapers.
Liara becomes new Shadowbroker.
Liara will *put some stuff of ME3 spoiler here*
Lemme say it this: no other character seems to have a similar significance to the series' main plot.

Also I dislike the word "hate". I don't hate Liara. I don't hate her fandom. I simply dislike the entire favoritism of her character on expense of other characters who either have only the purpose to fill a roster (Zaeed and Kasumi), simply get shoved out of the way for an entire part of the trilogy (VS) or won't have a significant role in ME3 since they can die in ME2 (suicide mission).

*sigh*

And that's it, I won't say anything about this topic anymore, neither here nor in any Liara-related thread. It won't do anything for good.

[Ohei]

Hey, hey, it's all good folks. It's just a video-game character, no need to get upset over what other people think. If you like the character, you like it, and people should respect that. If you think she's overhyped and that she is BioWare's baby, so be it, that's your view. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

We all have different tastes and opinions, no need to borderline argue with someone who thinks otherwise.

[UrusVerra]

Xilizhra, nope, there's no hatred. Personally I like Liara - she is cool well built character. But we, VS fans, just envy the fact, that Liara has much more attention,than our favourite Ash (or Kaiden) No hard feelings.))

Ohei, if there were no arguments there would be no discussions, if there were no discussions there would be no forum

Modifié par UrusVerra, 13 novembre 2011 - 05:40 .

[Ohei]

UrusVerra wrote...

Xilizhra, nope, there's no hatred. Personally I like Liara - she is cool well built character. But we, VS fans, just envy the fact, that Liara has much more attention,than our favourite Ash (or Kaiden) No hard feelings.))

Ohei, if there were no arguments there would be no discussions, if there were no discussions there would be no forum

I know that, but there is only so much you can debate when it comes to personal tastes without coming off as angry. I think learning to respect what other people prefer is key.

[UrusVerra]

Ohei wrote...

UrusVerra wrote...

Xilizhra, nope, there's no hatred. Personally I like Liara - she is cool well built character. But we, VS fans, just envy the fact, that Liara has much more attention,than our favourite Ash (or Kaiden) No hard feelings.))

Ohei, if there were no arguments there would be no discussions, if there were no discussions there would be no forum

I know that, but there is only so much you can debate when it comes to personal tastes without coming off as angry. I think learning to respect what other people prefer is key.

We don't debate about tastes (at least, we shouldn't, I agree), we debate about devs' favouritizm and its consequences)

[Ohei]

UrusVerra wrote...

Ohei wrote...

UrusVerra wrote...

Xilizhra, nope, there's no hatred. Personally I like Liara - she is cool well built character. But we, VS fans, just envy the fact, that Liara has much more attention,than our favourite Ash (or Kaiden) No hard feelings.))

Ohei, if there were no arguments there would be no discussions, if there were no discussions there would be no forum

I know that, but there is only so much you can debate when it comes to personal tastes without coming off as angry. I think learning to respect what other people prefer is key.

We don't debate about tastes (at least, we shouldn't, I agree), we debate about devs' favouritizm and its consequences)

I actually agree that a lot of BioWare's attention goes to Liara. I like her character, and even had a Shepard romance her, but then again I've pretty much created a character for each LI.

In ME3, though, being a war story, there will probably be chances for players to kill her off. If EVERY other character can die but her, then the favouritism has, in my honest opion, gone a little overboard.

[PrinceLionheart]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

The trend, unforunately, started in ME2 when Liara got an entire DLC dedicated to her, while VS didn't even get a Shadow Broker Dossier mention. And then, come Mass Effect Genesis (The ME1 "Comic"), Liara gets described as "Beautiful and Intelligent" while Ash and Kaidan only get "a Good Soldier" going for them.

So yeah, Ashley and Kaidan fans started to feel that Liara was getting preferential treatment and being pushed as the "default LI" if you will.

[Funkcase]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there a trend of Liara dislike here I missed before?

I'm sure alot of Ash fans like Liara too, like me! I haven't really read many people saying bad stuff about Liara here, and if one person does doesn't mean everyone does, I've read stuff from Liara fans who love Ash and some who hate her.

[Cossack72]

Must've missed something. I see no Liara dislike around here.

She's my other LI for Shepard. That's the great thing about having multiple Shepards: I can have them both

<3

[CptData]

Cossack72 wrote...

Must've missed something. I see no Liara dislike around here.

She's my other LI for Shepard. That's the great thing about having multiple Shepards: I can have them both

<3

Sure, you can do that.

It's not about the romance. It's more that Liara got a lot of extra attention other characters suffer from. It's not just Liara vs VS. The VS got some attention too and seems to be a pivot point as well for the entire story. It's more Liara vs rest of cast. Next to Shepard she's the most significant character. That alone would work well, but the Devs tried too hard to make her significant. Her character got big enough to be split into two and both parts still would have more development than most of the crewmates in ME2!

The favoritism of Liara heavily damaged her character in my eyes and made her less authentic.


Oh and by the way: if something like this would have happened to the VS, I couldn't keep Ashley as LI. I just hope BW won't do the same mistake in ME3 like they did with Liara and LotSB.


--- Oh and before I forget to mention this - who started the "Kaidan fanbase topic"? I'm still wondering why half of the fandom hates him. Kaidan never showed any traits that could make me hating him.

Modifié par CptData, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

what do you mean mistake with LotSB? That was easily one of the better things in ME2.

You mean giving Liara the preferential treatment in it? With the romance and the loft scenes and what not? Leaving it out would have been more fair and wouldn't have diminished the DLC at all. Though, life isn't fair and I'm happy and pissed about it at the same time. I'm happy that liara fans got the content they wanted... but I don't like that the VS gets completely ignored. Even in something as insignificant as the dossiers that pretty much everyone else (even hackett!!) was mentioned in.

It just seems blatant and it gets old. Liara is probably just the unfortunate recipient of the hate. It's not her fault... it's bioware's.

[CptData]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

what do you mean mistake with LotSB? That was easily one of the better things in ME2.

Adding too much stuff into one character. LotSB was fine - it just lacks a proper explanation why Liara became an intel broker at all.

The "mistake" will be done again if Ashley or Kaidan need a big character makeover to work with the plot. That's what I meant.

You mean giving Liara the preferential treatment in it? With the romance and the loft scenes and what not? Leaving it out would have been more fair and wouldn't have diminished the DLC at all. Though, life isn't fair and I'm happy and pissed about it at the same time. I'm happy that liara fans got the content they wanted... but I don't like that the VS gets completely ignored. Even in something as insignificant as the dossiers that pretty much everyone else (even hackett!!) was mentioned in.

Actually, I'm fine with the loft scene. Nicely done. I just wished we VS fans had something similar. Not the loft. Maybe in the Flux on Citadel. Just a dialogue post Horizon. That's all. Not more, not less, at least for me.

It just seems blatant and it gets old. Liara is probably just the unfortunate recipient of the hate. It's not her fault... it's bioware's.

Indeed. But I said it before, didn't I?

[Mr. Brainheart]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

what do you mean mistake with LotSB? That was easily one of the better things in ME2.

You mean giving Liara the preferential treatment in it? With the romance and the loft scenes and what not? Leaving it out would have been more fair and wouldn't have diminished the DLC at all. Though, life isn't fair and I'm happy and pissed about it at the same time. I'm happy that liara fans got the content they wanted... but I don't like that the VS gets completely ignored. Even in something as insignificant as the dossiers that pretty much everyone else (even hackett!!) was mentioned in.

It just seems blatant and it gets old. Liara is probably just the unfortunate recipient of the hate. It's not her fault... it's bioware's.

Exactly this!, I love Liara myself, almost as much as Ash and it's great that she gets a good amount of attention by Bioware, it's a shame that they don't give some other characters, like the VS, the same kind of treatment. Even then I understand not every character can play a role of same size, that's life, but for some things there isn't an excuse, like the LotSB dossiers and small things like that.

[CptData]

Peace? ^^


DA-link

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

They wanted to keep her alive for ME3? fine.

They could have let us respond back and forth to her after that email after horizon. As lame and stupid as it sounds, I would have looked forward to any intel and or messages about whatever with Ash after major missions. That would have been a focus of my game, sadly. lmao

As it is... without being able to reply (the email system sucked... how can you not have a reply button!? Why couldn't we respond to those spam messages and stuff!? They did it in Alpha Protocl... *whistle face* lol) or see her in the game past horizon... makes the game feel a lot more empty.

[Mr. Brainheart]

Yeah, I still think the Email system was better then nothing, but I felt like such a jerk not responding back to her, true though, I'd probably have been more excited about a mail from Ash, then talking to most of the squadies.

[CptData]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

They wanted to keep her alive for ME3? fine.

They could have let us respond back and forth to her after that email after horizon. As lame and stupid as it sounds, I would have looked forward to any intel and or messages about whatever with Ash after major missions. That would have been a focus of my game, sadly. lmao

As it is... without being able to reply (the email system sucked... how can you not have a reply button!? Why couldn't we respond to those spam messages and stuff!? They did it in Alpha Protocl... *whistle face* lol) or see her in the game past horizon... makes the game feel a lot more empty.

Yeah. Actually, the VS is not needed to be part of the SM. Liara wasn't part of the crew but you had her in your squad for the entire DLC LotSB.

It shouldn't be that difficult to make a DLC dealing with the VS without putting Ash or Kaidan in lethal dangers. BW refused to do that DLC, okay. It just feels (once more) as if the VS gets shoved away and done.

Whatever. BW won't ever give us a ME2!DLC dealing with that issue and if they do, it won't change anything for the events in ME3 - the ME3!story should be done right now.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

I'm not even talking about DLC. I don't even really want one. I just think they could have made ME2 more bearable for us VS fans by at least having a way (like the email system) to contact and interact with her... even if it just is something serious like intel for a few side missions.