50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Estelindis]

Xilizhra wrote...

Krogan/turian/quarian. That's where the comment about Tali comes in. But I suspect she made it about both governments and their species in general.

Forgot about Tali.  Anyhoo, I think her comments are ambiguous and could be interpreted the way you suggest or the way I mentioned.  I'm happy to agree to disagree, in a way, except that I actually don't come down on either side of the fence.  I don't think there's enough conclusive material to say one way or the other.

It was nice talking with you, anyway.  Must go to bed for now.  

EDIT: But not before a top-of-the-page Ash!  <3

Modifié par Estelindis, 18 novembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Xilizhra wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If that nonhuman is a Krogan warlord who you know next to nothing about and have on one of the most advanced ships with you knowing that if you ****** him off he could go easily kill a few Alliance personal and maybe cause some serious damage to the ship? Then yes I would say I would watch my back around him, atleast until I got to know him better.

Yes, but being krogan has nothing to do with it.

.

So whats wrong with her distrust of Wrex at first then? As you cleary admitted it's not the fact he's Krogan, it's the fact he could be dangerous and we dont know him yet. I also didn't hear anything said about Tali or Liara being on the ship.

My distrust has nothing to do with his being krogan. I believe hers does. And I think she does mention Tali.

No she doesn't trust them b/c they aren't alliance.

Replace Wrex and Garrus with humans... from some other organization, say Cerberus. She would say the exact same thing b/c she doesn't want someone that isn't with her respective faction to be able to access important information and maybe pass it along to their higher ups. 

It's called being cautious and unsure. Why should she trust someone who isn't part of her faction and has just been added to the crew? That doesn't make her racist at all. 

[Abispa]

I do remember Ashley having a problem with Tali being allowed access to the engine room of a TOP SECRET WARSHIP. To be honest, I would be livid if NOBODY in the game pointed out how unbelievable that situation is. It's a time honored tradition in TV and movies that if you are presenting a scene that stretches credulity to the breaking point, have one of the in show characters comment on how unbelievable the situation they're in is. Somehow it usually works on the viewer and makes the scene more acceptable. I suspect this was Bioware's attempt to do something similar.

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The question is, who's fitter? Ashley, or non-Soldier FemShep?

Ask yourself which one has the bone/skin/muscle weave.

Ash may still run faster than a FemShep who's not a Soldier/Vanguard.

Also, being a soldier, Ashley is genetically enhanced as well. If she's also undergone SPECTRE training I'd think there'd be a few sporting events where she might beat an Engineer/Infiltrator FemShep in. Such as high jump/long jump (FemShep is heavier with all the cybernetics). Swimming (Ashley's density is smaller). Perhaps medium distance (400m ~ 3000m) running. 

The increased storm speed and suchlike is for a soldier Shepard, not Ashley, because Shepard has more enhancements in that area. I don't doubt that Shepard is denser, but I think that regardless of Shepard's class, she receieved similar enhancements as Ashley, since all classes were trained as an N7.

I admit, I'm curious about some of these things myself, as I'm debating my Shepard being a Sentinel or Vanguard.

[Martin the Warrior]

Funkcase wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

 

Xilizhra wrote...
She seems to be conflating entire species and thus governments with individuals. A government selling itself out to save another is hard to swallow, yes, but I can completely believe individuals doing it, and alliances should never be discounted.

Welllll, is it possible, then, that Ashley's comment about the dog and the bear was really referring to alien governments?  She and Shepard talk about the council in that conversation, after all.  Doesn't the whole thing stem from Ashley not being happy about a krogan and a turian being able to learn Alliance military information and, presumably (although this isn't stated explicitly), share it with their governments?  I mean, given the turian cooperation with the crafting of the Normandy, it isn't really a sensible objection.  I just chalk that up to Ashley not remembering that turians helped to build the Normandy at the time when she makes the comment, though.  

Krogan/turian/quarian. That's where the comment about Tali comes in. But I suspect she made it about both governments and their species in general.

She says ''Vakarian and Wrex'' No Tali mentioned, and notice how she used their names and not race?..

This.
I think part of the problem is that sometimes you get gamers who play through ME, learn that Ash has trust issues (specifically the ones concerning other species), and learn that she believes in God; at that point, their own prejeudices kick in and they think "OMG racist Bible-thumper!"  And then they stick to that through the rest of the series, even in ME2 (if she died on Virmire, which probably happened in most hater-playthroughs unless they hated Kaidan more) when a news announcement quotes her as saying "Human or alien, we're all just animals."  Which I think sums up her "aliens are just going to look out for their own interests" spiel quite nicely.
And for the record, I don't always agree with her when it comes to who can or can't be trusted, but if agreeing on everything was a necessary prerequisite for liking someone, nobody would have any friends.

EDIT: I got ninja'd about half a dozen times there, didn't I?

Modifié par Martin the Warrior, 18 novembre 2011 - 03:43 .

[AresXX7]

@Xilizhra

The only time I recall hearing someone use the words Krogan & Turian in a single line, was when the Admiral, performing a snap inspection, did.

[PrinceLionheart]

Funkcase wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

 

Xilizhra wrote...
She seems to be conflating entire species and thus governments with individuals. A government selling itself out to save another is hard to swallow, yes, but I can completely believe individuals doing it, and alliances should never be discounted.

Welllll, is it possible, then, that Ashley's comment about the dog and the bear was really referring to alien governments?  She and Shepard talk about the council in that conversation, after all.  Doesn't the whole thing stem from Ashley not being happy about a krogan and a turian being able to learn Alliance military information and, presumably (although this isn't stated explicitly), share it with their governments?  I mean, given the turian cooperation with the crafting of the Normandy, it isn't really a sensible objection.  I just chalk that up to Ashley not remembering that turians helped to build the Normandy at the time when she makes the comment, though.  

Krogan/turian/quarian. That's where the comment about Tali comes in. But I suspect she made it about both governments and their species in general.

She says ''Vakarian and Wrex'' No Tali mentioned, and notice how she used their names and not race?..

I guess to jump in, it's actually Shepard who first brings up the fact that they're aliens, questioning if that is the reason why Ash has a problem with them on the ship. Ashley refutes it's because they aren't Alliance (which is actually a justified complaint considering it is a military craft afterall.

[PrinceLionheart]

AresXX7 wrote...

@Xilizhra

The only time I recall hearing someone use the words Krogan & Turian in a single line, was when the Admiral, performing a snap inspection, did.

And Pressley as well.

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I Think Ashley's Saren can kiss his turian ass goodbye" is a response to his racist attitude towards Sheaprd in the first meeting about him being rogue. he outright says "what can you expect from a human" and "your species needs to learn it's place" so there's some extra animosity on her part towards Saren. Even Garrus says "he's a discgrace to my people" so the fact that he's turian is abig deal alogn with the renegade response wher eShepard says "it was a turian spectre that betrayed this council and a human who exposed him, I've earned this" If you're going to point out oe hccaracter's use to species/race in lines you gotta point 'em all out.

I didn't use Garrus' line because I don't think he's speciesist against himself, Renegade Shepard is often much worse than Ashley so I'll concede that, and I don't really buy the Saren thing because Ashley never displayed any personal animosity towards him until right then.

Well she doesn't get many chances to talk about Saren. She can say things about missions, but you can't ask her about saren directly plus she has to be at the first meeting since you go there straight from Eden Prime so she knows Saren hates humans so she has no problem expressing her hatred for him.

[ADLegend21]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The question is, who's fitter? Ashley, or non-Soldier FemShep?

I'd say Ashley s I'm sure soldiers work out and are adept at Hand to hand combat so they've got to be in shape. With all the other classes Shepard has guns and something else whether it be ech biotics or BOTH as a sentienel.

[Homebound]

Abispa wrote...

I do remember Ashley having a problem with Tali being allowed access to the engine room of a TOP SECRET WARSHIP. To be honest, I would be livid if NOBODY in the game pointed out how unbelievable that situation is. It's a time honored tradition in TV and movies that if you are presenting a scene that stretches credulity to the breaking point, have one of the in show characters comment on how unbelievable the situation they're in is. Somehow it usually works on the viewer and makes the scene more acceptable. I suspect this was Bioware's attempt to do something similar.

thing is, tali never did anything to break that trust with being so close to the normandy's secret tech. i doubt it will come up again.

[ADLegend21]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I do remember Ashley having a problem with Tali being allowed access to the engine room of a TOP SECRET WARSHIP. To be honest, I would be livid if NOBODY in the game pointed out how unbelievable that situation is. It's a time honored tradition in TV and movies that if you are presenting a scene that stretches credulity to the breaking point, have one of the in show characters comment on how unbelievable the situation they're in is. Somehow it usually works on the viewer and makes the scene more acceptable. I suspect this was Bioware's attempt to do something similar.

thing is, tali never did anything to break that trust with being so close to the normandy's secret tech. i doubt it will come up again.

Shw had no gripes with tali, no one did, even The admiral. She had problems with wrex and garrus. Turians were just at war with humanity and Krogans hate everyone so it's ahrd to trust them. quarians ahd no beef with humanity so Ashley had no reason not to trust Tali especially since she has the key to helping you bust saren.

[Aurora313]

I know this is completely off topic from what's being spoken about, but this idea has not left me alone all day.

(obviously after Reaper War)

Reporter: This is Maria West, Here interviewing the Humanity's Second Spectre, and first female Spectre, Lieutenant Commander Ashley Williams. Thank you for joining us today, Commander.
Ashley: *forces smile* It's not trouble at all, really. It was just one giant coincidence.
Reporter: Of course. Rumor has it, that you were one of the major players in the War against the Reaper fleet.
Ashley: We lost a lot of good soldiers in that engagement. A lot of friends, and a lot of empty graves.
Reporter: Of course, and maybe they rest in peace. Rest assured, I've no intention to slander the fallen Commander.
Ashley: Yes, I recall seeing another Reporter being physically put down for trying something that stupid.
Reporter: By the then-Commander Shepard no less. Truly, I'm not going to attempt something so unprofessional.
Ashley: That would be wonderful.
Reporter: Back to the matter at hand, rumours also state that you're currently partnered with the aforementioned Major Shepard. Our female viewers have to know, what does it take to get the attention of such humanity's most sought after Bachelor?
Ashley: He's not a piece of meat, Miss West.
Reporter: I understand, but please, Our viewer have to know!
Ashley: You're viewers don't 'need' to know anything. I'm entitled to my privacy and so is he.
Reporter: But, Miss -
Ashley: I have an appointment to keep, excuse me. *walks away.*

Shepard: *watching from around the Corner Ashley is about to turn.* Ha. Nice shut down!
Ashley: Taught me more than you thought, huh? *they walk together, Shepard has an arm around her shoulder* But much as I hate to say it, she raises a valid point, why are you with me?
Shepard: What? You need a validation?
Ashley: It would be nice, yes.
Shepard: *kisses her* 'Cause you're you.
Ashley: I dunno, Skip'. Gonna need more 'Validation' than that.
Shepard: *stops and pulls her into a hug, their noses touching with a smile* Got something in mind, Lieutenant Commander?
Ashley: The Loft, 2000 hours tonight, with a nice sparkling champagne. Time for a re-assessment of your physical condition. *Pokes his chest to empathise her point* That's. An. Order. Major.
Shepard: I guess I have no choice but to Obey, Commander.
Ashley: You bet your sexy ass, you do.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 novembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[ADLegend21]

oo that was a nice dialogue Aurora.

[CptData]

Nashiktal wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

She's trying to win back Shepard.

That's disgusting.

Ash is not a desperate teenager.

That's what bioware is telling us though. Apparently she isn't sexy enough, so cleavage, tight rubber suits, long hair.... Derp. I really hope we get to see her armor soon. I'm about ready to toss my hands in the air and go with a kaiden save. (or at least just leave her on the ship. She doesn't want to dress the part i'm keeping her out of war.)

Le sigh/

Indeed - Ash is no "teenager". That role is filled by another character: [put in character you think I could mean].

She's -not- trying to win back Shepard. Why should she? She's no attackment of Shepard with no own personality that she needs him to get one. Nope - Ashley don't need Shepard for that. No, I think it's more the other way around - it's Shepard who needs to win her back, regain her trust, her love. It's up to the player to win Ashley back or not.

By the way I don't think that's conflicting with her more sexualized appearance. Maybe Ashley always wanted to be "less formal" but couldn't do so on lower ranks. As an officer PLUS Spectre she got a lot more freedom. I wouldn't be surprised if Ashley designed her own uniform (I'd like to read such statement ingame) or picked it from several styles. However, she did not pick a "sexy uniform" to win Shepard back or to show "I'm free, pick me" - that's not Ashley. Actually, she's one of the few women in the game you need to fight for to even have a nice small talk. She's everything but no easy bait.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I do remember Ashley having a problem with Tali being allowed access to the engine room of a TOP SECRET WARSHIP. To be honest, I would be livid if NOBODY in the game pointed out how unbelievable that situation is. It's a time honored tradition in TV and movies that if you are presenting a scene that stretches credulity to the breaking point, have one of the in show characters comment on how unbelievable the situation they're in is. Somehow it usually works on the viewer and makes the scene more acceptable. I suspect this was Bioware's attempt to do something similar.

thing is, tali never did anything to break that trust with being so close to the normandy's secret tech. i doubt it will come up again.

Shw had no gripes with tali, no one did, even The admiral. She had problems with wrex and garrus. Turians were just at war with humanity and Krogans hate everyone so it's ahrd to trust them. quarians ahd no beef with humanity so Ashley had no reason not to trust Tali especially since she has the key to helping you bust saren.

Yes. Apart from Ashley offending her by calling her "the quarian" Tali is apparently so damn lovable no one minds at all, especially not engineer Adams. The only person who could warn her to stop stealing secrets is Shepard if the player chooses. I just pissed her off by defending the geth instead.

[CptData]

Catching up posting:

Nashiktal wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...


wants to look like a lady while being a badass spectre.

She already did look like a lady. She was already attractive. She was already badass AND SHE KNEW IT.

I don't know if its because her writer left, or if this is part of biowares latest trend to go AWESOME BUTTON on us but the more I see it the more I feel one of my favorite characters slipping away.

I wonder about that too. Why's her original writer not developing Ashley's character anymore? I hate it when good guys get fired or replaced by others. Even if they're as good as the old writer, the new writers tend to change a character because it's impossible for them to find out what the original writer had in his mind.

Lemme point it this way: only a true Ashley fan has a tiny chance to continue writing Ashley's character without harming her too much. A writer without any connection to her won't ever get her character, it doesn't matter how professional s/he is.

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

*snip*

You're my new favorite person! lol

I echo this sentiment on all accounts. Especially the first part... there was nothing wrong with the way she looked and she was definitely attractive.

I don't think it's b/c her writer left b/c I think someone like Weekes could definitely take her over and do a great job, but it's the whole Mac wanting to cater to his characters like Garrus, fan-service, and yes... the AWESOME BUTTON.

That's an issue for me too. I always enjoyed the "hidden badassery" of Ashley. She looks like a normal soldier, acts like a normal soldier - but turns out to be the best of the best once you know her better.
Same you can say about her character: you need to know her better to find out who she is - and it's a beautiful character.

There's no need to make Ashley "awesome" - she IS awesome already. There was no need to "sex'er up" - because if Ash would exist in our world she could win any beauty contest without wearing make-up! At least that's my imagination.
Her new appearance is nice and such, I like her uniform, but it wasn't necessary to improve her character.

Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I Think Ashley's Saren can kiss his turian ass goodbye" is a response to his racist attitude towards Sheaprd in the first meeting about him being rogue. he outright says "what can you expect from a human" and "your species needs to learn it's place" so there's some extra animosity on her part towards Saren. Even Garrus says "he's a discgrace to my people" so the fact that he's turian is abig deal alogn with the renegade response wher eShepard says "it was a turian spectre that betrayed this council and a human who exposed him, I've earned this" If you're going to point out oe hccaracter's use to species/race in lines you gotta point 'em all out.

I didn't use Garrus' line because I don't think he's speciesist against himself, Renegade Shepard is often much worse than Ashley so I'll concede that, and I don't really buy the Saren thing because Ashley never displayed any personal animosity towards him until right then.

Hmm, lemme put me this way: Saren is the very reason why Ashley's unit got obliterated. I think she has a very good reason to hold a grudge against him. It doesn't matter Saren is a turian, but a murderer in her eyes - she lashes out against humans and aliens alike. Like the lazy dockworker in Eden Prime.
So Ashley is not on a hunt taking down a (random) turian but Saren.

Xilizhra wrote...

Funkcase wrote...
So whats wrong with her distrust of Wrex at first then? As you cleary admitted it's not the fact he's Krogan, it's the fact he could be dangerous and we dont know him yet. I also didn't hear anything said about Tali or Liara being on the ship.

My distrust has nothing to do with his being krogan. I believe hers does. And I think she does mention Tali.

Again, I need to do a "lemme put me this way".

Would you trust people known mostly as mercenaries and pirates? It doesn't matter if they talk with your tongue or another - I won't trust them. Skin color doesn't matter here, just the way how they live.
My canon!Shepard (= first playthrough) didn't trust Wrex. He accepted him as part of the crew and took his time to understand Wrex. Wrex gained Shepard's trust by talk and action.

And Tali? The entire galaxy is - to use your term - no fan of Quarians. They're "Space-gipsies" (sorry if someone feels offended now) - and most of the other races simply don't trust them. Does that make those species racists? After all, the Quarians made the Geth, got banned from their own homeworld, have the biggest fleet in the Galaxy, need resources and supply and can't always pay for it. As I said, the entire galaxy does NOT trust the Quarians. They're not hated, but also not welcome on most worlds.
Oh, and that statement comes from a "Quarian fan" - I like those people.

I'm sorry, I fully can understand Ashley if she doesn't trust Tali at first.

AresXX7 wrote...

@Xilizhra

The only time I recall hearing someone use the words Krogan & Turian in a single line, was when the Admiral, performing a snap inspection, did.

... and that Admiral sounded way more like a "racist" than Ashley. He simply doesn't trust aliens and shows it - at least when it comes to aliens on board of an Alliance vessel. It's up to Shepard to convince the Admiral the aliens have their place in the crew and won't give away military secrets.

[CptData]

elektrego wrote...

CptData wrote...
.

Lemme point it this way: only a true Ashley fan has a tiny chance to continue writing Ashley's character without harming her too much. A writer without any connection to her won't ever get her character, it doesn't matter how professional s/he is.

The bolded words are fail!

A real writer knows the words "professional distance" - a fan cannot accomplish that! I am sure they have not gone blind in writing Ashley.
As long as it's not the angsty, lovey-dovey "stuff", that some fans come up with I am fine!

edited for language :innocent:

Depends. I'd say you're right but not fully. You need to like a character at least to treat him or her in a fair way. Sure, the best idea IS a entirely professional writer without any feelings for a particular character, but you won't find such person that easily. I bet Ashley's original writer liked her a lot and that shows.

"Angsty stuff" - only if it's needed for the story. I like it, but can it keep out of the story. Same for "lovey-dovey". But must admit I'd like to see romance arcs with IMPACT on the main story.


Maybe I picked the wrong words - "true fan" does only work if the writer is a fan of a particular character but can keep a professional distance.

Modifié par CptData, 18 novembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[Xilizhra]

And Tali? The entire galaxy is - to use your term - no fan of Quarians. They're "Space-gipsies" (sorry if someone feels offended now) - and most of the other races simply don't trust them. Does that make those species racists?

Yes. Those members of those species, at any rate.

Would you trust people known mostly as mercenaries and pirates?

Dependent on individual personalities. I would, for instance, trust Charr.

[Quole]

Xilizhra wrote...

And Tali? The entire galaxy is - to use your term - no fan of Quarians. They're "Space-gipsies" (sorry if someone feels offended now) - and most of the other races simply don't trust them. Does that make those species racists?

Yes. Those members of those species, at any rate.

Would you trust people known mostly as mercenaries and pirates?

Dependent on individual personalities. I would, for instance, trust Charr.

I dont really want to get involved, but yes technically, they are racist. Pretty much the whole galaxy is racist.