50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I said you just need to get Legion on your shi at the very least. Legion out classes Tali as a hcker because he's thousands of AI while she's organic, plus he's an excellent sniper and did I mention he's an AI. You also don't need Liara beyond saying 'Ilos!" she makes a point in saying until that you've gained no ground. Hell why do you need a tam anyway no one remembers them it's always 'Shepard saved the galaxy!' who needs a team let's scarp all the characters and give shepard all th answers for three. Sorry eveeryone Ashely tread's closed now kthnxbai

/sarcastic rant

[ADLegend21]

ooo top



Hellcat and Skipper by LadyLionhart

Modifié par ADLegend21, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:16 .

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I said you just need to get Legion on your shi at the very least. Legion out classes Tali as a hcker because he's thousands of AI while she's organic, plus he's an excellent sniper and did I mention he's an AI. You also don't need Liara beyond saying 'Ilos!" she makes a point in saying until that you've gained no ground. Hell why do you need a tam anyway no one remembers them it's always 'Shepard saved the galaxy!' who needs a team let's scarp all the characters and give shepard all th answers for three. Sorry eveeryone Ashely tread's closed now kthnxbai

/sarcastic rant

Also no. for one "butt hurt" is the most retarded thing the internet has spawned and two all of that was sarcasm besides the needing to get legion on the ship that was serious because ti was fact.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, wait, naledgeborn was the one repeating that phrase regarding Liara and Ilos. Sorry about that, I must be tired.

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, wait, naledgeborn was the one repeating that phrase regarding Liara and Ilos. Sorry about that, I must be tired.

there there. *pat pat* I am too, that's why I took the sarcasm route.

Ashley says go to bed:

[CptData]

Grey34 wrote...

 i get the feeling Ashley's romance sub plot will be the best and the most interesting one other than maybe liara's, because you have already history with her and what happen on Horizon would certainly have direct impact in me3

Guess you're right. There are a lot of ups and downs waiting for us. Emotional rollercoaster anyone?

and what i have read of the leak script etc(relax guys not going to post spoliers ) would create even more great emotional impact to the romance.  what also might play role is the whole grandfather thing  what it is i don't know just got a feeling it might.

*raises gun*
*reads again*
*lowers gun*
I don't know if "General Williams" is still alive. Maybe it could help if Shepard is a warhero - after all, Ashley mentioned something about that in ME1. So "Grandfather issue + Warhero" might have some influence.

i suspect one of the reasons BW decided to make her spectre was to try dispell alot of those racism accusations because why would she become a spectre if  she hates aliens or maybe she just listens to the human couclior, who knows theres very little infomation to go on. but what i have read and seen seems to suggest that.

No, I don't concur. The VS becomes Spectre, not Ashley alone. It has nothing to do with her so called "racism". I guess it has more to do with "someone had to replace Shepard". It also makes sense if Shepard got reinstated in ME2: the Council (if alive) couldn't be sure if Shepard was fully loyal, however they needed a loyal human Spectre (either for PR or because Anderson/Udina forced them to do so).

i don't think she racist she maybe boarder line cause there was a few things she said i had a issue with but i certainly understand her distrust towards aliens. at least she wouldn't join the Terra firma party or Cerberus if she is was. 

The only "borderline statement" was the line about "aliens & animals" - and that one was a glitch as BW stated. She's reserved towards aliens with a reason. Her dog&bear line wasn't about how she sees the aliens, but how the Council might see humans. Humans = dogs.

i really hope she gets the attention she deserves i trust BW on making that happen  but i also understand you can't make everyone happy to.

I guess the most unhappy guys will be ME2 fans exclusively. There are a lot of characters that could end sidelined.
The VS is none of them, but still can get "unfair" treatment, if you know what I'm talking about.

Ash was my first romance option through my first play through in ME and i stay faithful to her in ME2 despite the cold shoulder on Horizon cause i commit and she will be my first to complete my romance conculsion in ME3.

Actually, I think her behavior on Horizon was 1000 times more believeable than Shepard's lines he used in that scene.

what makes me think she is a great soldier is because she's got that drive to be the best unfortunely really it had to be because of the whole black listed thing. i don't know about you guys but i knew she was destined to become a spectre or and Admiral.

Spectre or General. She's a marine and not part of the Navy. Maybe she gets transferred some day, but that's not needed anymore since she's already part of the Spectres and can do whatever she wants.

my only critcism would be that i think she shouldn't be to trustful towards the alliance because of the whole Grandfather thing, i wouldn't trust the them completely considering.

Ash is absolutely loyal towards the Alliance - I don't see the slightest hint she wasn't or isn't anymore.

i liked the whole tomboy look makes her hot even though i do think her new look is also awesome to. and i also love the whole strong women thing going but also the sensitive side to which we saw that side of her in ME1, i hope we see more  depth to her in ME3.
 
and that's all i can think of atm i will let you guys know

Indeed, friend, indeed

Modifié par CptData, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:31 .

[Xilizhra]

No, I don't concur. The VS becomes Spectre, not Ashley alone. It has nothing to do with her so called "racism". I guess it has more to do with "someone had to replace Shepard". It also makes sense if Shepard got reinstated in ME2: the Council (if alive) couldn't be sure if Shepard was fully loyal, however they needed a loyal human Spectre (either for PR or because Anderson/Udina forced them to do so).

Vexing... this whole Spectre thing reeks of "Shepard, but less so." It's a shame they couldn't just take their own straighter path through the Alliance.

The only "borderline statement" was the line about "aliens & animals" - and that one was a glitch as BW stated. She's reserved towards aliens with a reason. Her dog&bear line wasn't about how she sees the aliens, but how the Council might see humans. Humans = dogs.

And the "bug-eyed monsters" line, and the "turian ass" line, and the "I'm no fan of aliens" line. She's not Kai Leng, but she is xenophobic to an extent. Also, at the Council decision, it turns out she does see nonhumans that way (I'm considering the line each squadmate takes most commonly to be their true opinion).

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, I don't concur. The VS becomes Spectre, not Ashley alone. It has nothing to do with her so called "racism". I guess it has more to do with "someone had to replace Shepard". It also makes sense if Shepard got reinstated in ME2: the Council (if alive) couldn't be sure if Shepard was fully loyal, however they needed a loyal human Spectre (either for PR or because Anderson/Udina forced them to do so).

Vexing... this whole Spectre thing reeks of "Shepard, but less so." It's a shame they couldn't just take their own straighter path through the Alliance.

I have to concur in some ways: there's no need to make the VS to a Spectre to get the story running.

The only "borderline statement" was the line about "aliens & animals" - and that one was a glitch as BW stated. She's reserved towards aliens with a reason. Her dog&bear line wasn't about how she sees the aliens, but how the Council might see humans. Humans = dogs.

And the "bug-eyed monsters" line, and the "turian ass" line, and the "I'm no fan of aliens" line. She's not Kai Leng, but she is xenophobic to an extent. Also, at the Council decision, it turns out she does see nonhumans that way (I'm considering the line each squadmate takes most commonly to be their true opinion).

Dunno about "bug-eyed monsters" - I'm not sure when she pulled that line at all in the German version of the game. The "turian ass" has nothing to do with "racism" - she doesn't hate turians (even if I could understand her to an extend regarding her family's history), but she does want to kick Saren - and only Saren. If she wanted to kick some random turian ass - she just had to go to Garrus. It's not that he was hiding from her or something ^^
By the way: today any random marine will say a line like "lets kick some iraqi ass" or something - without having anything against those people. It's just his or her job.

Whatever, there were tens ouf thousands of lines written regarding that topic, nothing I'm saying now will change anything.

[Xilizhra]

Whatever, there were tens ouf thousands of lines written regarding that topic, nothing I'm saying now will change anything.

I find it peculiar that those who hold Ashley up as one of the most well-written and believable characters refuse to acknowledge a totally believable and probably very common flaw.

[shephawke]

i loved ashley in mass effect one i kept her alive for both my male and fem shep bcause i couldnt care about kaiden he can only use a pistol and i really wanna c how my mass effect one romance ends for my male shep for my fem they are basically bffs lol

Modifié par shephawke, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Whatever, there were tens ouf thousands of lines written regarding that topic, nothing I'm saying now will change anything.

I find it peculiar that those who hold Ashley up as one of the most well-written and believable characters refuse to acknowledge a totally believable and probably very common flaw.

Racism is just ... bad. There's nothing good in that. At least for me a racist is someone who reduces other people to their skin color or race (wait, there are no real "races" within mankind) and actively fights them either by words or deeds.

Xenophobic does sound less bad, but technically it's the same, however, at least for me, it's far more defensive than racism.

Ashley is maybe a tad xenophobic but no full blown racist. Terra Firma is a bunch of racists, they're actively fighting alien influence. I'd go that far and say Ashley shows just a slight hint of xenophobic behavior, she's more "reserved" towards aliens. However, her sight on things shifted a bit over the course of the game. I wonder if she'll ever pull a line that could be misinterpreted as "racism" or "xenophobic" in ME3. Her line in Horizon was stupid but we both know Horizon was awfully written - Kaidan and Ashley got mixed into one character, both acted OOC.

[shephawke]

if ashly does has a subplot which she might it would have to be something involving one or two of her sisters that is my guess anyway

[Grey34]

CptData wrote...

Grey34 wrote...

 i get the feeling Ashley's romance sub plot will be the best and the most interesting one other than maybe liara's, because you have already history with her and what happen on Horizon would certainly have direct impact in me3

Guess you're right. There are a lot of ups and downs waiting for us. Emotional rollercoaster anyone?

and what i have read of the leak script etc(relax guys not going to post spoliers ) would create even more great emotional impact to the romance.  what also might play role is the whole grandfather thing  what it is i don't know just got a feeling it might.

*raises gun*
*reads again*
*lowers gun*
I don't know if "General Williams" is still alive. Maybe it could help if Shepard is a warhero - after all, Ashley mentioned something about that in ME1. So "Grandfather issue + Warhero" might have some influence.

i suspect one of the reasons BW decided to make her spectre was to try dispell alot of those racism accusations because why would she become a spectre if  she hates aliens or maybe she just listens to the human couclior, who knows theres very little infomation to go on. but what i have read and seen seems to suggest that.

No, I don't concur. The VS becomes Spectre, not Ashley alone. It has nothing to do with her so called "racism". I guess it has more to do with "someone had to replace Shepard". It also makes sense if Shepard got reinstated in ME2: the Council (if alive) couldn't be sure if Shepard was fully loyal, however they needed a loyal human Spectre (either for PR or because Anderson/Udina forced them to do so).

i don't think she racist she maybe boarder line cause there was a few things she said i had a issue with but i certainly understand her distrust towards aliens. at least she wouldn't join the Terra firma party or Cerberus if she is was. 

The only "borderline statement" was the line about "aliens & animals" - and that one was a glitch as BW stated. She's reserved towards aliens with a reason. Her dog&bear line wasn't about how she sees the aliens, but how the Council might see humans. Humans = dogs.

i really hope she gets the attention she deserves i trust BW on making that happen  but i also understand you can't make everyone happy to.

I guess the most unhappy guys will be ME2 fans exclusively. There are a lot of characters that could end sidelined.
The VS is none of them, but still can get "unfair" treatment, if you know what I'm talking about.

Ash was my first romance option through my first play through in ME and i stay faithful to her in ME2 despite the cold shoulder on Horizon cause i commit and she will be my first to complete my romance conculsion in ME3.

Actually, I think her behavior on Horizon was 1000 times more believeable than Shepard's lines he used in that scene.

what makes me think she is a great soldier is because she's got that drive to be the best unfortunely really it had to be because of the whole black listed thing. i don't know about you guys but i knew she was destined to become a spectre or and Admiral.

Spectre or General. She's a marine and not part of the Navy. Maybe she gets transferred some day, but that's not needed anymore since she's already part of the Spectres and can do whatever she wants.

my only critcism would be that i think she shouldn't be to trustful towards the alliance because of the whole Grandfather thing, i wouldn't trust the them completely considering.

Ash is absolutely loyal towards the Alliance - I don't see the slightest hint she wasn't or isn't anymore.

i liked the whole tomboy look makes her hot even though i do think her new look is also awesome to. and i also love the whole strong women thing going but also the sensitive side to which we saw that side of her in ME1, i hope we see more  depth to her in ME3.
 
and that's all i can think of atm i will let you guys know

Indeed, friend, indeed

how do you do those quote things i try to do that and it won't let me 

any whoo   i'm just saying that  how General Williams was treated i'm surprised Ashley didn't have any reservations towards the alliance not just towards the Turians not trying to criticise just wish BW  explained it more in depth on the issue.

oops soz forgot about kadian lol's i retract that then:pinched:

i thought the marines was part of the navy hmmm it seem i got to read the codex again.

yeah i think your right " it's been too long Ash how have you been"  wouldn't be my first words to say to someone who thought i was dead for 2 years. 

[shephawke]

i just want to c how the mass effect series ends cause if it is another sucide mission im making ash loyal first i dont want 2 c her die im just glad i know how to make everyone survive the suicide mission cause it wouldnt be mass effect without tali or garrus there with me and ashly

Modifié par shephawke, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:17 .

[V-rex]

Xilizhra

I find it peculiar that those who hold Ashley up as one of the most
well-written and believable characters refuse to acknowledge a totally
believable and probably very common flaw.

(I can only talk from my own perspective on this issue, doubtlessly others will be different)

I think maybe the reason most of us don't want to acknowledge the whole 'racism' issue and respond with hostility is because it's been used as the primary attack against Ashley for so long that to agree with it in any part is to appear to be validating the haters.
I personally can acknowledge that Ashley does have issues with aliens, I'm mature enough to admit that she's not perfect when it comes to that. It's just that the word 'racist' carries really heavy weight and given some of the ways people have exaggerated Ashley's reactions towards aliens, most of the time if someone says:
"Ashley is racist."
It comes out to us as:
"Ashley is an evil stupid redneck inbred neo-n*zi conservative who deserves to choke to death on alien c*ck!"
(yes this is an actual comment that I found on a gaming site)
Because that's just how the outside world has used the term to describe her, it's a term that is unappealling to us. I admit we should be able to be mature enough to point out that Ashley does have faults and not just in regards to aliens (hell that's one of the reasons I liked her so much) but combined with a fear of validating the 'enemy' and a desire to ridicule that 'enemy' so that their insults and accusations have no weight I think maybe partly it's the idea, at least it was for me, that any degree of 'acceptance' of the idea of Ashley being a racist will result in her undergoing Flanderization in Mass Effect 3 and becoming the Mass Effect equivilant of Edward Norton in American History X.

That if a mainstream audience chants about how awful and racist she is, Bioware will just shrug and go 'fine' and make her into a twisted monstrosity of her former self. There are really unpleasant haters who go to the most extreme lengths of hatedom towards Ashley, so logically as a defence mechanism the fans will go into an extreme length of fandom so that even with the mainstream chanters, (hopefully) Bioware will still realize that there are fans who don't think of Ashley as an evil redneck and subsequently won't give in to the hate.

Look I agree that we as a group need to be able to accept that the character has flaws that other people might find distasteful and be able to discuss them in a calm, civil manner especially if said other people are ready to do so as well.
But just understand that on the 'Ashley Williams Support Thread" we might not be all that interesting in listing stuff we don't like about Ashley, or when people confront us with the flaws about her. I'm pretty sure that's the same with every other fanbase.

For the most part I've met few Jack fans who feel like discussing whether or not her romance path can be considered sexist and I would like to point out that I'm fairly certain if someone went onto the Liara thread to talk about how much they thought she was Bioware's Mary Sue and that everything about her role in Mass Effect 3 is contrived, I'm sure you wouldn't be ready to agree with them. Even if they brought up examples of Liara being blatantly favored.

Anymore then we, the Ashley fans, are ready to admit to Ashley being xenophobic. It's just how things work sometimes.

P.S I am most certainly NOT trying to incite any kind of war with you over Liara in Mass Effect 3, so please do not interpret my post as such. I value the somewhat solid peace our two groups share, I just figured it was a reasonable example.

Modifié par V-rex, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:20 .

[Xilizhra]

Ashley is maybe a tad xenophobic but no full blown racist. Terra Firma is a bunch of racists, they're actively fighting alien influence. I'd go that far and say Ashley shows just a slight hint of xenophobic behavior, she's more "reserved" towards aliens. However, her sight on things shifted a bit over the course of the game. I wonder if she'll ever pull a line that could be misinterpreted as "racism" or "xenophobic" in ME3. Her line in Horizon was stupid but we both know Horizon was awfully written - Kaidan and Ashley got mixed into one character, both acted OOC.

I suspect that she feels more than she says, and that her dislike of Terra Firma is largely based on guilt about her own feelings.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ashley is maybe a tad xenophobic but no full blown racist. Terra Firma is a bunch of racists, they're actively fighting alien influence. I'd go that far and say Ashley shows just a slight hint of xenophobic behavior, she's more "reserved" towards aliens. However, her sight on things shifted a bit over the course of the game. I wonder if she'll ever pull a line that could be misinterpreted as "racism" or "xenophobic" in ME3. Her line in Horizon was stupid but we both know Horizon was awfully written - Kaidan and Ashley got mixed into one character, both acted OOC.

I suspect that she feels more than she says, and that her dislike of Terra Firma is largely based on guilt about her own feelings.

Nah, I don't concur.
Speaking of own experience - I'm a German. I dislike those neo n*zi guys here, but not because I feel any guilt or something: I'm not responsible for something my grandfathers might have done (and both were too young to be soldiers in WW2). I don't wanna get shoved in that corner, not even when I am showing some reserve towards some people here. Am I a "racist" because I'm defending my society? Am I a xenophobic if I can't understand or accept cultures that violate human rights every single minute of their existence? I don't fight them, neither with words nor deeds, but I don't support them and I don't think they're a contribution to our (western) society.
Or do humans in ME3 want batarian cultural influence?

That's the big question here: what makes a person to a racist, what makes a person to a xenophobic, what makes a person "reserved towards ABC".

Enough about that, V-rex posted a darn fine text about that.

Modifié par CptData, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:37 .

[shephawke]

how do you get those square things around the writing

[Grey34]

i knew i shouldn't of mention the xenophobic issue it always hijacks the conversation

[CptData]

shephawke wrote...

how do you get those square things around the writing

[ quote] Text [ /quote] - minus the "space" in the brackets.

[Grey34]

shephawke wrote...

how do you get those square things around the writing

hahahahahahaa...quite you <_< jkz

[shephawke]

k thanks

[shephawke]

i cant w8 for mass effect 3 2 come out i am the biggest game playing nerd that i will probably fiish it in i dunno 2 or 3 days depending on the discs it has

[Xilizhra]

It's just that the word 'racist' carries really heavy weight

One reason I prefer "speciesist." Apparently it didn't take.

But just understand that on the 'Ashley Williams Support Thread" we might not be all that interesting in listing stuff we don't like about Ashley, or when people confront us with the flaws about her. I'm pretty sure that's the same with every other fanbase.

Just on the support thread, it would be unsurprising. However, this is a trend I've noticed everywhere where Ashley is mentioned.

Am I a "racist" because I'm defending my society?

It depends on what you're defending and why.

Am I a xenophobic if I can't understand or accept cultures that violate human rights every single minute of their existence?

As a cultural matter, not as such, but the Batarian Hegemony is the only powerful government that does so in ME, and they're rarely directly brought up in ME1; Ashley's issues with aliens never show up at the same time.

[Grey34]

well everyone has flaws if Ashley didn't have one i don't think it would've made her a believable character other wise