50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Badpie]

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. My own lacking religious opinions aside it seems kind of obvious to me that yours are very strong, Stardusk, maybe just as strong as the opposite end of the spectrum - doesn't mean any of it is right. This really isn't the place for your personal opinion on religion or your opinion of people who have such beliefs. You might want to consider that you're coming off kind of confrontational, particularly if there if there are people in this thread who do believe in something. No one is trying to make you believe anything so why insult others' intelligence with a statement like that?

Ash gif

Modifié par Badpie, 03 février 2012 - 10:19 .

[Stardusk78]

Badpie wrote...

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. My own lacking religious opinions aside it seems kind of obvious to me that yours are very strong, Stardusk, maybe just as strong as the opposite end of the spectrum - doesn't mean any of it is right. This really isn't the place for your personal opinion on religion or your opinion of people who have such beliefs. You might want to consider that you're coming off kind of confrontational, particularly if there if there are people in this thread who do believe in something. No one is trying to make you believe anything so why insult others' intelligence with a statement like that?

It's part of Ashley's character, so it is part of a possible criticism of her.  That's the problem I fear, once characters take on real life traits, such as religiosity, that people don't like, you can either entirely avoid talking about it or you can, if you do, you are regarded as confrontational.

[Badpie]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. My own lacking religious opinions aside it seems kind of obvious to me that yours are very strong, Stardusk, maybe just as strong as the opposite end of the spectrum - doesn't mean any of it is right. This really isn't the place for your personal opinion on religion or your opinion of people who have such beliefs. You might want to consider that you're coming off kind of confrontational, particularly if there if there are people in this thread who do believe in something. No one is trying to make you believe anything so why insult others' intelligence with a statement like that?

It's part of Ashley's character, so it is part of a possible criticism of her.  That's the problem I fear, once characters take on real life traits, such as religiosity, that people don't like, you can either entirely avoid talking about it or you can, if you do, you are regarded as confrontational.

It just seemed to me that you were no longer talking about Ashley, but about people who hold beliefs in general.  I understand it as a criticism of her character because your own personal opinions don't coincide.  No one begrudges your personal opinion.  I was merely pointing out that it appeared you were doing so to others there.

It's hard on the forums and you're right.  The realness of a character can make people relate in whatever way so sometimes it makes discussions kind of touchy.  



I guess what I'm saying is, feel free to rail on Ashley about her religious beliefs but not on the "real people."  If that makes sense.  ....Maybe that doesn't make sense.  Hehe

Modifié par Badpie, 03 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[Complistic]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Oh theeeerrrre's the rest of your post. Haha! I thought that looked odd. Now I understand. Welcome to the thread, Carter!

Yes. You'll find that much of why so many of us dig Ashley is that she seems very real and flawed and the relationship with Shepard isn't all sunshine and roses. Just like in real life friendships and romantic relationships have bad with the good.

I'm glad Ashley has a fair amount of people who dislike her, actually. They're welcome to do so. I think it's a testament to how her character is so rich and complex. I mean there are some pretty unlikable things about Ashley. If I had just met her and hadn't gotten to know her I would find her blunt and loud mouthed and offensive, maybe even kind of a b*tch. But I'm fairly certain that if I had one long conversation with her we would be total girlfriends. haha

To be honest the worst thing about Ashley is her religious belief. I mean, it's the freaking 22nd century! How can anyone believe in that stuff anymore? (nevermind, I know).

RIP religion 60,000 BC - 2099AD

It had a good run.

Modifié par Complistic, 03 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

redbaron76 wrote...

@ Mr Brain hurt, I personaly think that the paragon interupt should have been shepard kissing Ash, but that is just me.

I think that would be like asking for a slap in the face , it wasn't really the moment. Ofcourse I could do a rengade interrupt version...

@Stardusk: I deem it highly unlikely that the existance of God or the nonexistance of God can be proven just a few centuries from now if ever. Plus religions have been rather good at ensuring their further existance thus far, so to see Ashley have a believe that is similar to a believe that we know is not all that weird.

[Funkcase]

I really don't see what's wrong with Ashley being religious, becuase she's human? It doesn't make sense. Everyone seem's to be fine with the Alien religions, why cant a human believe in something? I mean Thane pray's to a different God for certain things, the Asari are pretty much all religous, Mordin is clearly religous as he had a crisis of faith after the genophage upgrade, and the Quarian phrase ''Keelah se'lai'' come's across as something of a religious nature. But some people have a problem with Ash just saying she believes in God.
 
I feel her beliefs are stemmed from losing her father mostly and being a marine, a job where she lose's friends alot. I think she takes comfort in the thought that she might see them again one day.

It alway's gets to me when a large majority of the people who call her a ''bible basher'' and what not also claim she's a bigot for her disturst of aliens, yet they can't see that they're actually bigots themselves.

Modifié par Funkcase, 03 février 2012 - 10:36 .

[redbaron76]

We live in the 21 century and there are a lot of people that are religious, that can not be changed, so why try. People rail about ashley being religious, well people we live in a free and democratic society if people want to be religious they can all they want. And since writers made ashley religious it is their right and a priviledge. SO people raving and ranting about ashleys religiousnes are infringing upon that right of free expression and religion. Even in the 22nd century people are still free to believe in god if they choose to.

[Aurora313]

Believing in things like religion gives people hope, and fives them an answer to the.question 'why are we here?'. I think that's the same reason Ash believes.

[redbaron76]

@ MR Brainheart that could work to, but even if you maid it paragon interupt, ashley might not slap him for kissing her.

[Captin Carter]

@ Mr. Brainheart

That had me grinning. That exchange probably isn't far off the mark.

Personally i'm hoping for them to get back together either early, say after the first two missions or before about half the game. The reason being that starting a relationship with a crew member (specifically one with a crew member more than three ranks below you) is risky and commonly against regs. while i was reinstated as a spectre, the alliance obviously has bigger problems. then shep went and got spaced (which in hindsight was a really bad idea) so trying to get back together after dying will be rough no doubt, but then making it work for the second half of the game? Holy crap the Reapers would be a breeze. The possibilities are endless. her life or a whole planet? her life or the key to beating the reapers? Then the constant fretting over her while she's in combat...her yelling at you if you get shot...her yelling at you if you don't take her with you...like i said, endless possibilities.

I realize this is probably not going to be the case but hey I can dream right?

[Badpie]

Funkcase wrote...

I really don't see what's wrong with Ashley being religious, becuase she's human? It doesn't make sense. Everyone seem's to be fine with the Alien religions, why cant a human believe in something? I mean Thane pray's to a different God for certain things, the Asari are pretty much all religous, Mordin is clearly religous as he had a crisis of faith after the genophage upgrade, and the Quarian phrase ''Keelah se'lai'' come's across as something of a religious nature. But some people have a problem with Ash just saying she believes in God. I feel her beliefs are stemmed from losing her father mostly and being a marine, a job where she lose's friends alot. I think she takes comfort in the thought that she might see them again one day.

This is a really good point.  No one has ever brought up (to my knowledge) the religious beliefs of the other characters in a negative light.  Nor have they brought up their decidedly anti-other species views.  I suppose its because Ashley is human and therefore what we as humans related to most.  It also makes us more able to condemn her.  Double edge sword as it were.  

And Funkcase that reminds me of Shepard's reference to the saying "there are no athiests in a fox hole."  I'm guessing if anyone feels like they've gotten nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in a higher power it would be people who put their lives on the line quite a bit.  I'm sure it's comforting to think that someone or something is watching out for you and the people around you in a way.  That's sort of how I view Ashley's beliefs.  

Modifié par Badpie, 03 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

Funkcase wrote...

I really don't see what's wrong with Ashley being religious, becuase she's human? It doesn't make sense. Everyone seem's to be fine with the Alien religions, why cant a human believe in something? I mean Thane pray's to a different God for certain things, the Asari are pretty much all religous, Mordin is clearly religous as he had a crisis of faith after the genophage upgrade, and the Quarian phrase ''Keelah se'lai'' come's across as something of a religious nature. But some people have a problem with Ash just saying she believes in God. I feel her beliefs are stemmed from losing her father mostly and being a marine, a job where she lose's friends alot. I think she takes comfort in the thought that she might see them again one day.

True, religion doesn't make a very big impact on Ashley or how I regard her, she's very casual about it. In fact, with Thane it's a bigger deal, especially the extreme dualism that it causes.

Anyway, I do agree that discussions like this should be kept Ash-centric (says the guy who starts talking about Thane), or we'll have made this into a religion thread before you can say boomstick.

[CptData]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

To be honest the worst thing about Ashley is her religious belief. I mean, it's the freaking 22nd century! How can anyone believe in that stuff anymore? (nevermind, I know).

Well we don't really know what she believes.  She says she believes in "God" and "Heaven" so one might make the assumption that she's a Christian, but they don't really say.  Lots or religions believe in that sort of thing.  And while she holds spiritual beliefs I don't really think that contradicts any sort of logic or whatever.  I mean there are a lot of people who believe in God (or some variation).  Just because it's the 22nd century doesn't mean people are going to stop doing that?  Why would they?  I mean they haven't yet.  

It's the people whose beliefs aren't willing to evolve that are the ridiculous ones, but Ashley also strikes me as a logical person.  Clearly she's able to reconcile what she knows about the Universe with what she doesn't know and she's comfortable with it.  If she were some crazy Bible thumper she wouldn't have even believe in life on other planets even if it was right in front of her.

Also Ashley is hardly overzealous about it.  She makes no mention of changing anyone elses' beliefs or even going as far as to say what she believes is right?  She only wants the right to believe what she believes, which has apparently earned her some flack "just because I work in space means I can't believe in a higher power? Jeez!"  

My Shepard was able to just say that her beliefs were none of his business and they left it at that.

Sadly, you are right.

Why "sadly"?
Ashley is no religious zealot. She believes in God. Who cares? Do I care? I'm a "goddamn" atheist. Even had a time as "atheist zealot". I learned to deal with the fact some people believe in God and others don't. Right now I just hate the zealots in religions while the ordinary John Doe on the street may believe in God without shoving it in everyone's throat.

Ash works like that. She even asks Shepard if he has issues with her belief. Does a religious zealot asks such a question? Nope. Ash does. She accepts other beliefs. That makes her "open minded" on that field - which is good enough. Oh and just by the way: my fiancee is christian. It works. Why shouldn't it work for Shepard and Ash if Shepard is not believing in God?

[CptData]

LoL I just realized old stuff is old. I was gone for approx an hour and you had a fine debate here ... kudos you guys

[Stardusk78]

Badpie wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. My own lacking religious opinions aside it seems kind of obvious to me that yours are very strong, Stardusk, maybe just as strong as the opposite end of the spectrum - doesn't mean any of it is right. This really isn't the place for your personal opinion on religion or your opinion of people who have such beliefs. You might want to consider that you're coming off kind of confrontational, particularly if there if there are people in this thread who do believe in something. No one is trying to make you believe anything so why insult others' intelligence with a statement like that?

It's part of Ashley's character, so it is part of a possible criticism of her.  That's the problem I fear, once characters take on real life traits, such as religiosity, that people don't like, you can either entirely avoid talking about it or you can, if you do, you are regarded as confrontational.

It just seemed to me that you were no longer talking about Ashley, but about people who hold beliefs in general.  I understand it as a criticism of her character because your own personal opinions don't coincide.  No one begrudges your personal opinion.  I was merely pointing out that it appeared you were doing so to others there.

It's hard on the forums and you're right.  The realness of a character can make people relate in whatever way so sometimes it makes discussions kind of touchy.  



I guess what I'm saying is, feel free to rail on Ashley about her religious beliefs but not on the "real people."  If that makes sense.  ....Maybe that doesn't make sense.  Hehe

I see your point but it is kind of impossible.

[Captin Carter]

Ash having religon fits right in to her personality. She's a type-A badass with strong family ties and deeply patriotic behavior. Having faith only shows that she's strong enough to hold onto what she believes in spite of all the aliens and whatnot that her religon never explained. it's just another quality that makes her so attractive to me.

Before you get pissed know that i respect all religons or lack thereof even if i dont agree with it

[BatmanPWNS]

Thane is more religious than Ash. Where's his religion haters?

[Mr. Brainheart]

Badpie wrote...

And Funkcase that reminds me of Shepard's reference to the saying "there are no athiests in a fox hole."  I'm guessing if anyone feels like they've gotten nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in a higher power it would be people who put their lives on the line quite a bit.  I'm sure it's comforting to think that someone or something is watching out for you and the people around you in a way.

That's true for some, (although I would not be able to bare it, since I'd know someone is looking over a lot of pain and not intervening and ultimately, possibly even creating it...) For Ash though it does seem to have that effect. I have to wonder though what will she think of Shepard's ressurection and will that influence her way of believing. If Shepard tells her he didn't see heaven or anything, I wonder how she'd react.

[Stardusk78]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Thane is more religious than Ash. Where's his religion haters?

Thane's beliefs are even more retarded, all this body doing this soul not wanting that.

[Funkcase]

Badpie wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

I really don't see what's wrong with Ashley being religious, becuase she's human? It doesn't make sense. Everyone seem's to be fine with the Alien religions, why cant a human believe in something? I mean Thane pray's to a different God for certain things, the Asari are pretty much all religous, Mordin is clearly religous as he had a crisis of faith after the genophage upgrade, and the Quarian phrase ''Keelah se'lai'' come's across as something of a religious nature. But some people have a problem with Ash just saying she believes in God. I feel her beliefs are stemmed from losing her father mostly and being a marine, a job where she lose's friends alot. I think she takes comfort in the thought that she might see them again one day.

This is a really good point.  No one has ever brought up (to my knowledge) the religious beliefs of the other characters in a negative light.  Nor have they brought up their decidedly anti-other species views.  I suppose its because Ashley is human and therefore what we as humans related to most.  It also makes us more able to condemn her.  Double edge sword as it were.  

And Funkcase that reminds me of Shepard's reference to the saying "there are no athiests in a fox hole."  I'm guessing if anyone feels like they've gotten nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in a higher power it would be people who put their lives on the line quite a bit.  I'm sure it's comforting to think that someone or something is watching out for you and the people around you in a way.  That's sort of how I view Ashley's beliefs.  

Indeed, they can hate her becuase they can actually relate to her, the Aliens are different and interesting (although most actually being very human) regardless of their opinions of her they can't deny how well written and voiced Ashley is to get such negative and positive reactions from fans.
 
I believe there are more soldiers who believe in something than dont (atleast most of them I've meet did, and that's most people I've known being brought up in a military family) This is one thing that makes Ash such a capable character, it's stuff like her religous beliefs that make her willing to give her life for the mission.

Mr. Brainheart wrote...


That's true for some, (although I would not be able to bare it, since I'd know someone is looking over a lot of pain and not intervening and ultimately, possibly even creating it...) For Ash though it does seem to have that effect. I have to wonder though what will she think of Shepard's ressurection and will that influence her way of believing. If Shepard tells her he didn't see heaven or anything, I wonder how she'd react.

I doubt Ash would ask, death is the most personal thing, she might find it disrespectful to ask. And I don't think Shepard would tell her if there was nothing, it would destroy everything she believes and crush her.

Modifié par Funkcase, 03 février 2012 - 10:51 .

[Captin Carter]

I'll second shep's quote of there never being an atheist in a foxhole. Still haven't met one. the one atheist i did know landed in me and my buddy's foxhole on a really bad day. it was common knowledge that my buddy was deeply religous. well atheist finds a small cross buried in the dirt and looks and my buddy and says "Thank God you're here! Now tell me how to work this thing!"

Ps i never laughed so hard while under fire

[CptData]

Stardusk78 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Thane is more religious than Ash. Where's his religion haters?

Thane's beliefs are even more retarded, all this body doing this soul not wanting that.

In a way you're right. Thane is the exact opposite of myself - I don't believe spirit and body are two separated entities but one. Thane on the other side believes both are separate - which makes it possible his soul does the deeds while his body is just a tool (or vice versa).

Still don't feel offended by his ideology.

As I stated before: I hate zealots, fundamentalists, people that try to force their belief on others. That doesn't mean I hate religious people in general. In fact, most of them are peaceful and keep their beliefs private.

[BatmanPWNS]

[inappropriate quotes removed]

Anyway Ash has beliefs and she doesn't push it on people. In my book, she's ace.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 février 2012 - 12:12 .

[CptData]

Captin Carter wrote...

I'll second shep's quote of there never being an atheist in a foxhole. Still haven't met one. the one atheist i did know landed in me and my buddy's foxhole on a really bad day. it was common knowledge that my buddy was deeply religous. well atheist finds a small cross buried in the dirt and looks and my buddy and says "Thank God you're here! Now tell me how to work this thing!"

Ps i never laughed so hard while under fire

Never served in any army (and I'm almost 30). However, can understand that guy. If bullets rain down on you, you pray not to get hit. Maybe you don't do a perfect prayer, but you do one. It's kinda natural.

Ashley does believe in God. I'm just not sure if she's Christian, Jew or Muslim. Maybe it simply doesn't matter so it's up to player's imagination. In my case Ashley is either Protestant or Jew.

[Aurora313]

Ashley: This again?
Shepard: I come baring gifts. *walks in with coffee and breakfast* But, your not looking in a pancake mood.
Ashley: People dredging up old debates again.
Shepard: Which?
Ashley: Religion.
Shepard: Oh, is that all?
Ashley: Is that all? It's a big deal to me!
Shepard: No its shouldn't. *Ash goes to speak but Shepard raises a hand to atop her.* You're beautiful, and perfect just the way you are.
Ashley: Thank you *goes to kiss him, but he stops her.*
Shepard: Breakfast first this time, please?
Ashley: But, Johnny!
Shepard: .... No don't, don't do that. Don't call me that.
Ashley: *sigh* Fine, but I want dessert when I'm done.
Shepard: Counting on it.