50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

What kind of forum stuff do we get in N7 CE?

[Mr. Brainheart]

CptData wrote...

It kinda irks me half of the galaxy sees Shepard as "asset" in the war against the Reapers tbh, Brain.

And if Liara sees Shepard as said asset, then she act's really below the belt: in that case Shepard is not more than a tool and used as such. I disliked that attitude of TIM already but it's even worse if Liara takes the same line.

Lets say I'm okay if Liara did it because she cared for Shepard - caused by an unfulfilled love. That's at least a honest AND positive reason to bring someone back from the dead.

I used it because it shows there are other reasons to bring him/her back than personal emotions. It's a reason based purely on logic, that often sounds cold.

Liara wouldn't have based her decision solely on that, but I don't think she'd have solely done it out of an emotional tie to Shepard. She has to have wondered if she could justify bringing Shepard back besides selfish reasons. So it's more a conformation that the galaxy would benefit from Shepard's return too. In my opinion it only makes sense this reason must've played a bigger part if Shepard was acting like a douche to Liara during ME1.

In short I believe she could emotionally and logically (for as far as you can really split those two) justify Shepard's ressurection.

Different topic:

I just saw fem!Shep's "casual outfit". I'd say there it goes, our hope for "partially nude" scenes. At least fem!Shep won't show us sideboobs. And guess Ashley won't do either. Modding anyone? ^^

Well, I just hope they won't go overboard with awkward animations and keep it simple animation wise. Afterall, it can be perfectly fine without partial nudity. I just hope it's sensual.

[Creedio]

I agree 100% with Mr. Brainheart

[V-rex]

I should probably be 'that guy' and remark that we should avoid saying anything inciteful about Liara on this thread. Perhaps out of solidarity from back in the old days when we were best friends with the Liara thread but also to attempt to prevent any potential flamewars erupting.
Only about a week or so to go guys, let's try to hold it together that long.

[CptData]

Lets ignore that Liara topic for now ...

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

Different topic:

I just saw fem!Shep's "casual outfit". I'd say there it goes, our hope for "partially nude" scenes. At least fem!Shep won't show us sideboobs. And guess Ashley won't do either. Modding anyone? ^^

Well, I just hope they won't go overboard with awkward animations and keep it simple animation wise. Afterall, it can be perfectly fine without partial nudity. I just hope it's sensual.

I dunno. Would say the scene in ME1 needed partial nudity to know both are about to share a wonderful experience. It wouldn't have worked with bra'n'stuff.

Lets hope we're going to see some sensual stuff in ME3. I don't want to see another "dry hump" scene like in ME2. I want the full set of emotions, longer romantic scenes and overall the "vibes" between Ashley and Shepard. Hey, they deserve it.

V-rex wrote...

I should probably be 'that guy' and remark that we should avoid saying anything inciteful about Liara on this thread. Perhaps out of solidarity from back in the old days when we were best friends with the Liara thread but also to attempt to prevent any potential flamewars erupting.
Only about a week or so to go guys, let's try to hold it together that long.

And beyond.

C'mon guys, this thread needs to hit 2000+ pages ^^

Plus: technically we just talked about Liara without offending her or her fandom at any given point - and it was Ashley related. At least sort of

Modifié par CptData, 27 février 2012 - 11:30 .

[Slashout]

In short I believe she could emotionally and logically (for as far as you can really split those two) justify Shepard's ressurection.

People act like this was some sort of black magic and there was a morality issue here...
There is none. There is nothing to consider to justify "bringing him back or not".

Shepard wasn't completly dead just closer to death than anyone has ever been and come back to life... until now.
There was someone with the will, the funds and technology to bring him back and so they did.
It's advanced technology. If there is a ground breaking cure for cancer way ahead of its time that's only done somewhere, is there a morality issue in deciding to cure that person?
If someone was in an accident, do the people around him wonder "Is it morally alright to call an ambulance and save him?"
No, you just do it...

Liara just didn't want Shepard dead and knew there was only one place that could save him. When you have no other choices, you stop being picky, even if the help comes from "ennemies" (plenty of cases of medics healing ennemy soldiers in war) or in this case when it comes from dubious/suspicious sources.

Modifié par Slashout, 27 février 2012 - 11:36 .

[CptData]

Slashout wrote...

In short I believe she could emotionally and logically (for as far as you can really split those two) justify Shepard's ressurection.

People act like this was some sort of black magic and there was a morality issue here...
There is none. There is nothing to consider to justify "bringing him back or not".

Shepard wasn't completly dead just closer to death than anyone has ever been and come back to life... until now.
There was someone with the will, the funds and technology to bring him back and so they did.
It's advanced technology. If there is a ground breaking cure for cancer way ahead of its time that's only done somewhere, is there a morality issue in deciding to cure that person?
If someone was in an accident, do the people around him wonder "Is it morally alright to call an ambulance and save him?"
No, you just do it...

Technically there's a difference between some critically injured person and a dead person - you can't compare both situations.
There's no question if you should try to help an injured person to save him or her from certain death.

However, you said it by yourself: Shepard was dead as one can be. Heart: flatlined. Brain function: no longer there.
Cerberus brought Shepard back, played "God", so to speak. And raised an ethical question: even if that reconstructed being acts like Shepard and has his/her memories, is this still Shepard? Or is this being a new entity that just shares personality and memories of a dead person?

Since that's a question no one can solve, you also can't judge by normal standards of morality.
It's neither "wrong" nor "right" to bring a dead one back. It's perfectly between both extremes.

However, there IS something that gives the entire mess a taste of bad: "playing God". That's the real issue I have with the entire plot regarding Shepard's death. TIM and Miranda played God to bring Shepard back. And while Miranda redeems herself over the course of the game, TIM is someone with a God complex already - although he's closer to the Fiend himself than anyone else. Basically, that man IS the one who sells the soul of a whole species (mankind) for advancement. He's a modern Dr. Faust.

And that's why it feels more wrong than right to bring Shepard back. 
Shepard kinda needs to redeem himself to make a wrong thing right.

(Does that make sense - at least a bit?)

[Mr. Brainheart]

Ok, last thing about Liara before I drop it:
@Slashout; Some people might have a moral issue with it if their Shepard was religious, in my case though that wasn't an issue. THe issue was giving Shepard to cerberus, that's going to some lenght to ressurect someone. Would you call an ambulance from a terrorist organization that does research on things like mind-copntrol in an unethical manner. There are my moral issues, but Data already explained it better and in more detail I think.

@Data; You're right, It helps certainly. But, you can have a decent scene without nudity, a powerful, sensual dialogue is the most important part I think. Meanwhile they can move closer to each other, sensually touching, it could still work. And yeah, I want what you said too.

Modifié par Mr. Brainheart, 27 février 2012 - 11:41 .

[Slashout]

CptData wrote...
Technically there's a difference between some critically injured person and a dead person - you can't compare both situations.
There's no question if you should try to help an injured person to save him or her from certain death.

However, you said it by yourself: Shepard was dead as one can be. Heart: flatlined. Brain function: no longer there.
Cerberus brought Shepard back, played "God", so to speak.

Actually what I was trying to say was that no one has ever been closer to death than Shepard in that instance and brought back to life. Not that he was dead.
The "brought back to life" used there was the expression used when for exemple you do mouth to mouth to a drowned person, and not the litterally "he was dead, I did some back magic, and he is now alive".

I see no morality problems here. A hundred years ago our current medecine would have been considered magic or playing god.
Artificial insemination to get a woman pregnant used to be considered playing god. And is still is by some people.
There was a time operating on a human was blasphemy and people had to do it in secret to help medecine.

Saying this is "playing god" is only thinking with the current level of thinking. It's so advanced that we might have issues with it.
I don't.
After that, if shepard's brain ceased working, it's about "do you believe in souls and everything religious attached to it?"
This is a personal matter.
I believe that if the person can be saved at the expense of no other life. He/she, should be.

Mr. Brainheart wrote...

Ok, last thing about Liara before I drop it:
@Slashout;
Some people might have a moral issue with it if their Shepard was
religious, in my case though that wasn't an issue. THe issue was giving
Shepard to cerberus, that's going to some lenght to ressurect someone.
Would you call an ambulance from a terrorist organization that does
research on things like mind-copntrol in an unethical manner. There are
my moral issues, but Data already explained it better and in more detail
I think.

Now this I understand more.
The morality issue for me here would be if Cerberus took advantage of Shepard against his/her will. Not the saving part.
Sending him there does present a risk of mind control like Miranda hoped to add to shepard.

Modifié par Slashout, 27 février 2012 - 12:06 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Ashley is so under rated as a character it's great to see people love her as much as I do

[CptData]

Slashout wrote...

Actually what I was trying to say was that no one has ever been closer to death than Shepard in that instance and brought back to life. Not that he was dead.
The "brought back to life" used there was the expression used when for exemple you do mouth to mouth to a drowned person, and not the litterally "he was dead, I did some back magic, and he is now alive".

From what I got so far, Shepard was dead. Gone. And if you watch closely, shortly after s/he died, his/her corpse entered athmosphere of the very same planet the Normandy crashed on. His/her corpse got entirely destroyed with only few remains. Check it again: you can pick up Shepard's helmet at the crashsite. Last time I checked Shepard had that very same helmet when s/he got killed. I really don't want to go into ugly details here, but we can be sure Shepard's body wasn't much more than some burned bones with some organic tissues left.

To me it looks as if Shepard was dead. Not just "as close as someone ever got before". S/he was gone.

Cerberus reconstructed Shepard's body and somehow managed to reconstruct his/her brain PLUS memories PLUS personality. From scratch (since we don't know if Shepard got a greybox). That's a hell of a work, impossible with today tech and most likely "almost" impossible with tech in the 22nd century. Cerberus made the impossible possible - once.

I see no morality problems here. A hundred years ago our current medecine would have been considered magic or playing god.

Technically, Cerberus "plays God" or "uses magic" in their time as well. Most of the tech they used were at prototype stage - or forbidden (Reaper tech). Wouldn't be surprised if Shepard's reconstruction was as expensive as rebuilding the Normandy.
It's also no tech you simply can reproduce. It is still "magic" of some sort, even in the 22nd century.

Artificial insemination to get a woman pregnant used to be considered playing god. And is still is by some people.
There was a time operating on a human was blasphemy and people had to do it in secret to help medecine.

Saying this is "playing god" is only thinking with the current level of
thinking. It's so advanced that we might have issues with it.


I don't.

Different topic, tbh, and you can't compare it. Helping a woman to bear children is okay to me.
Using a woman to bear a cloned child for "replacement parts" IS unethical and "playing God" ...

Besides that, I don't either. However some tech might cross the ethical line. Without going into a serious debate here - but we should keep that in mind. The current state of the world shows me that we DIDN'T keep that in mind.

After that, if shepard's brain ceased working, it's about "do you believe in souls and everything religious attached to it?"
This is a personal matter, in my case I don't. And if the person can be saved at the expense of no other life. He/she, should be.

I don't believe in souls and such, but frequently use it to explain stuff.

Doesn't matter however. Ashley does believe in souls, God and such. How's she seeing the entire "Shepard-came-back-from-the-dead" story as a religious person? She surely wants to know if Shepard saw something. And I'm sure Shepard won't answer her question or simply can't remember anything. Any other outcome will be surprising to me.


Now, lets drop that topic or reduce it to more Ashley-related stuff

Modifié par CptData, 27 février 2012 - 12:06 .

[Slashout]

This reminds me of an episode in Babylon 5. From which ME takes a LOT of stuff.
The episode is about some egg laying aliens visiting the Babylon station (that's pretty much the citadel, where all races have a place for trading and political stuff, with ambassadors and such).

Their son has some kind of thing preventing him from breathing. They refuse that their son takes the very simple surgery that would save his life.
Because their religion and belief do not allow for anything that would "cut their skin to open their insides".
For them, it would allow their souls to escape and the patient would not be the same person.

The doctor is so frustrated that in the end he does the operation in secret because he couldn't let the boy die for what he thought was otudated thinking. He is a doctor after all, life comes first. But what he did was sacrilege to the parents, and that race.

In the end the boy was saved, it was a very easy operation, he was the same little boy. But the parent were so shocked that they coudn't accept it and woudn't allow  their boy to come close to them, he became an abomination to them.
And in the end they killed their boy with a special ceremony for such cases to allow him "peace". Because they could not see past their belief. When the doctor heard of it, he rushed, but came to late and only found the corpse of the little boy.
-----

Anyway that was a little side thought I had with this.
We should get back to dicussing Ashley, that's true. So I'll stop this topic as well .

Anyway, I'm just redoing my ME1 to start a romance with Ms.Ashley. I just hope I can get it done (and ME2 as well) before ME3 is released .

She just look so cute and beautiful now, I wouldn't want to miss anything because I "ignored" her in my previous games.

Modifié par Slashout, 27 février 2012 - 12:13 .

[CptData]

Slashout wrote...

Anyway, I'm just redoing my ME1 to start a romance with Ms.Ashley. I just hope I can get it done (and ME2 as well) before ME3 is released .

She just look so cute and beautiful now, I wouldn't want to miss anything because I "ignored" her in my previous games.

Good luck with her then

Lets say, Ash is pretty much the hidden treasure. If you can't get in touch with her at the beginning but give her a chance, you'll find out WHY we Ash fans love her so much. It's just that. Of all characters in the ME universe, Ashley is not only one of the most authentic - almost real - characters but also the one with the greatest deepness.

And as I said before: Ashley is pretty much an archetype for an emanzipated woman who still wants to be with a partner she loves and respects as equal.

[Milan92]

I remember my first time when I saw Ash was during that choice between her and Liara on Youtube  It was before I had Mass Effect, but I already knew I wanted to romance Ash

[CptData]

Milan92 wrote...

I remember my first time when I saw Ash was during that choice between her and Liara on Youtube  It was before I had Mass Effect, but I already knew I wanted to romance Ash

I bet your Shepard is doing the dance of your Avatar when she's his girl again.

Ashley: What are you doing, Skip?
Shepard: I do "the dance" ... because I'm happy.
Ashley: Ohh - I see. It looks ridiculous.
Shepard: Yeah, but it's fun. You should try it too.
Ashley: No. <_<
Shepard: Okay, whatever.

[Milan92]

You read my mind Data

[Aurora313]

Shepard: *admiring new outfit* Sweet! Genuine leather.
Ashley: Skipper, what are you doing?
Shepard: Admiring my new wardrobe, my very expensive wardrobe.
Ashley: ... 
Shepard: What? You know hard it is to get genuine leather, right? 'Specially with a war going on.
Ashley: I just never pegged you for leather. I always thought of you more as a khaki kind of guy.
Shepard: I never pegged you as the kind of woman who'd wear that sexy blue body suit, but you still do.
Ashley: The only reason you're not getting smacked is because I'm too busy being lazy right now. You realise that, right?
Shepard: Yeah. I do. And I'm just trying to sift through all this crap. Most of it doesn't fit me any more.
Ashley: Let yourself go a bit, Skip'?
Shepard: Oh, ha-ha Ash. No. In fact I'm not as lean as I used to be. Over the last couple of years, I've gone from a matchstick frame to some kind of freaking Greek God.
Ashley: That's a high-and-mighty attitude, ya go there Skip. Who said that?
Shepard: Rox did, but that doesn't matter. Cause unfortunately, all my formal wear has suffered for it. Most of it ripped at the seems.
Ashley: Well, can't say I'm complaining. You'll just have to go on and face the Reaper's shirtless.
Shepard: I don't think so Ash.
Ashley: C'mon. Show off those celtic tattoos.
Shepard: No thanks. In the face of my new, manly tats? I don't think the Reapers could handle it. *Laughs*
Ashley: *laughs*

Modifié par Aurora313, 27 février 2012 - 12:47 .

[Slashout]

Hehe, I just visited the night club in the Citadel in ME1. With all the Asaris in sexy outfits dancing. There I talk to Kaiden who says "I see why this place is so popular, it's got quite the uhm... view".
Then I talk to Ashley who says "You can keep the presidum. This is where all the action is!".
Do you figure she liked what she saw? xD

Modifié par Slashout, 27 février 2012 - 12:51 .

[Aurora313]

@Slashout.

I think she's referring to the darker, grittier, lively atmosphere of the lower wards compared to the boring tranquility and etiquette of the upper wards. Can't say I disagree. I prefer a darker, grittier edge on things. Clean and tranquil is all well and good, but there's only so much I can take.

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

@Slashout.

I think she's referring to the darker, grittier, lively atmosphere of the lower wards compared to the boring tranquility and etiquette of the upper wards. Can't say I disagree. I prefer a darker, grittier edge on things. Clean and tranquil is all well and good, but there's only so much I can take.

Definitely. Also Ash is a dancer - she loves discos and dance bars. Shepard likes 'em too (pretty much like me, although I'm not a disco fan - I love bars) - and he doesn't mind his lack of dancing skills. 

Always imagined Ashley as someone who's fun loving and a bit of a hedonist. Which plays perfectly with her discipline - she can quit most of her addictions, fun and everything else and become the brutish professional we saw first.
Something like that.

[Milan92]

Talking about bars. Did you folks know that we can go on a date with Ash in ME 3?

[Aurora313]

Gosh Data. She's a hell of a lot stronger than my Shepard...  That's for certain.
 
Shepard: Two years rehab for eight years of being sober... -.- I hate being sober...
Ashley: *off in the distance* Come on Skipper! Let's have a drink!
Shepard: Must not give in. Must not give in. Must not -
Ashley: They've got Guinness! The good stuff!
Shepard: *rocking back and forth in fetal position* Mustnotgivein! Mustnotgivein! Mustnotgivein!
Ashley: They've got a live band playing! Oh sweet, it's an Irish one!
Shepard: Fuuuuu-!!!! Damn it. That woman'll be the death of me...
Ashley: Hey! Ya made it.
Shepard: I'll have one. Only one, alright?
Ashley: Better than nothin', Skip'.

Modifié par Aurora313, 27 février 2012 - 01:04 .

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

Gosh Data. She's a hell of a lot stronger than my Shepard...  That's for certain.
 
Shepard: Two years rehab for eight years of being sober... -.- I hate being sober...
Ashley: *off in the distance* Come on Skipper! Let's have a drink!
Shepard: Must not give in. Must not give in. Must not -
Ashley: They've got Guinness! The good stuff!
Shepard: *rocking back and forth in fetal position* Mustnotgivein! Mustnotgivein! Mustnotgivein!
Ashley: They've got a live band playing! Oh sweet, it's an Irish one!
Shepard: Fuuuuu-!!!! Damn it. That woman'll be the death of me...
Ashley: Hey! Ya made it.
Shepard: I'll have one. Only one, alright?
Ashley: Better than nothin', Skip'.

In what way "stronger"? More willpowered?

In my case they're pretty much even with a tad leaning towards Ashley. They're something what I call "true equals" in more than one way and completing each other. Of course, that's pure headcanon.
The only field where Shepard tops Ash per definition is drinking. That guy survives EVERYTHING. And given the fact some of his digestive system got replaced by implants (causing him to survive most venoms), he won't get wasted that easily.

Which leads to one question: why's your Shepard still prone to drinking? After all, his old life "died" and his new life never had that addiction. His body is no longer craving for Red Sand or alcohol. So your Shepard could drink from time to time without the danger to backslide into alcoholism.
And even if he does - his enhanced digestive system should be able to handle this.


Ashley is still "normal human" and can't take Ryncol and "Batarian Troublemaker" ... Shepard just gets a light hangover

[Aurora313]

Just because his body doesn't physically crave the drug anymore, it doesn't change the fact that he remembers how and how much pleasure his addictions gave him. There's always going to be that voice in the back of his head screaming 'I want one last taste', and as you said, his advanced digestive system would be able to take the punishment and more. It's kind of why he and Ashley have such a... sex-driven relationship. He tries to distract one physcological craving with another. (He's also similar to another former drug-addict Paul Grayson from the books in that way)

If he slipped back into old happens, I have no doubt he'd be sticking himself with a needle ever hour or so. And it would be even rarer for him to not have a can of alcohol in his hand. (exaggeration, I know, but that's my point). He has an addictive personality. And if he slipped back into old habits, he'd be destroying the faith his friends, comrades and parental figures had placed in him. Anderson admitted himself in the books, he does not trust addicts or former addicts, hence why Anderson placing his trust in Shepard means so much to him.

So, Ashley tempting Shepard to drink or go out to clubs is kind of torture to him. Hell, just saying 'I'm only having one' is a huge display of willpower for him.

Modifié par Aurora313, 27 février 2012 - 01:31 .

[CptData]

Aurora313 wrote...

Just because his body doesn't crave the drug anymore, it doesn't change the fact that he remembers how and how much pleasure his addictions gave him. There's always going to be that voice in the back of his head screaming 'I want one last taste', and as you said, his advanced digestive system would be able to take the punishment and more.

If he slipped back into old happens, I have no doubt he'd be sticking himself with a needle ever hour or so. And it would be even rarer for him to not have a can of alcohol in his hand. (exaggeration, I know, but that's my point). He has an addictive personality. And if he slipped back into old habits, he'd be destroying the faith his friends, comrades and parental figures had placed in him. Anderson admitted himself in the books, he does not trust addicts or former addicts, hence why Anderson placing his trust in Shepard means so much to him.

So, Ashley tempting Shepard to drink or go out to clubs is kind of torture to him.

Makes sense. Every addiction is 50/50 needs of body and mind.

My mom quit smoking 7 or 8 years ago - after smoking for nearly 30 years. She simply did it from one day to another. The following weeks were hell, mostly because her body was craving for nicotine. But she wanted to stop smoking, therefore she was able to "defeat" her body's needs for nicotine with her mind that said "no".
She still wants to smoke a cigarette now and then but restrains doing so.

However, that's caused her body remembers the sensation of a nicotine shot.

Shepard's body shouldn't remember that feeling of Red Sand and alcohol. So he should be able to drink without running into a new addiction, except - and that's why I said your statement makes sense - his mind is STILL craving for alcohol. In that case he never really defeated his addiction.