50128 réponses à ce sujet

[Martin the Warrior]

ADLegend21 wrote...


My question is only how it would
play out. For Sheps who have pallbearers or some equivalent role, would
Garrus and Wrex be allowed to participate? For Sheps involved with
Kaidan or Ashley, would they risk bringing that
relationship out
into the open in order to claim a lover's role in the funeral, or keep
it on the QT to protect their careers and reputations, and just serve as
a close friend (Ash would be entitled to main!Shep's flag and dog tags,
but I can see her leaving them to Hannah)? Would Joker pilot one of the
fighters in the missing man flyover Shep should be entitled to? (Oh
man, Shep's a high-ranking officer, I dunno how the Alliance does it but
a US military service would have a horse. I wanna see them bring a
horse to the Citadel for a funeral [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]).

1. Pallbearers imply that there's some kind of remains involved, and it's pretty clear that the Alliance weren't the ones who found Shepard's body.
2. I don't think that the VS would reveal their relationship with Shepard (if they had one in the playthrough) - probably still too risky, career-wise.
3. Now that you mention it, a horse on the Citadel would be interesting...

Edit: Gah, I got ToP and I don't have the time to go running around the interwebs looking for fan art! I should be asleep right now!

Modifié par Martin the Warrior, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:23 .

[ashlover mark 2]

Martin the Warrior wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...


My question is only how it would
play out. For Sheps who have pallbearers or some equivalent role, would
Garrus and Wrex be allowed to participate? For Sheps involved with
Kaidan or Ashley, would they risk bringing that
relationship out
into the open in order to claim a lover's role in the funeral, or keep
it on the QT to protect their careers and reputations, and just serve as
a close friend (Ash would be entitled to main!Shep's flag and dog tags,
but I can see her leaving them to Hannah)? Would Joker pilot one of the
fighters in the missing man flyover Shep should be entitled to? (Oh
man, Shep's a high-ranking officer, I dunno how the Alliance does it but
a US military service would have a horse. I wanna see them bring a
horse to the Citadel for a funeral ../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png).

1. Pallbearers imply that there's some kind of remains involved, and it's pretty clear that the Alliance weren't the ones who found Shepard's body.
2. I don't think that the VS would reveal their relationship with Shepard (if they had one in the playthrough) - probably still too risky, career-wise.
3. Now that you mention it, a horse on the Citadel would be interesting...

Edit: Gah, I got ToP and I don't have the time to go running around the interwebs looking for fan art! I should be asleep right now!

no worries,your covered.

[Quething]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

i dont htink the alliance "smeared" or disavowed shepard i think they just discredited his reaper warnings,everything else they love. they use shepard alot in recruiting and have memorials and funds set up in his name.

Well, Joker, Gabby and Ken all seem pretty sure the Alliance stabbed Shepard in the back, and Jacob tells you the Alliance abandoned Shepard as recruitment material almost as quick as they picked him/her up. None of those are terribly objective sources, though. The facts seem to be: the Alliance broke up the Normandy team, the Alliance's official position is that Shepard was either misled or delusional about the Reapers, and the Council either thinks you're Saren's dupe or that you can't be trusted not to put humanity first. How vigorously the Alliance has been pushing the "delusional" line, and whether the Council has been trying to discredit Shep at all, is up for debate. The game seems to want you to feel like you've been turned on, but I'd say that's just another cheap manipulative swing at trying to make you accept the ME2 pro-Cerberus stoyline. I do think there's evidence in ME2 to suggest that someone has been trying to discredit Shep to the public, the Council, and the Alliance, but that someone is pretty clearly Cerberus. So, yeah, I was being really imprecise and communicating poorly there, I apologize.

also goodluck with your horizon argument....lord knows how many times we have to jump into those. its almost as if every one who blames ash for that encounter is the same EXACT PERSON. cause they all think and act the same exact way about it, ****ing crying and whining that ash dosent stroke sheps ego and give him the respect a big uber awsome hero like him is entitled.....how annoying it is.

Haha, I think I'm about at the point of giving up. You just can't argue with someone who thinks that Ash should somehow magically know everything the player knows about Shepard's deal with Cerberus.

Martin the Warrior wrote...

1. Pallbearers imply that there's some kind of remains involved, and it's pretty clear that the Alliance weren't the ones who found Shepard's body.
2. I don't think that the VS would reveal their relationship with Shepard (if they had one in the playthrough) - probably still too risky, career-wise.
3. Now that you mention it, a horse on the Citadel would be interesting...

1 - not at all. Ceremonial burials are common when a body can't be recovered. The Balinese, for example, speaking of main!Shep as I was, will parade and then burn an empty coffin when the deceased was killed overseas or the body is otherwise unavailable. Wrex and Garrus could help carry the Wadah, which would be a similar role.
2. Particularly for Ash. Hard enough being a Williams without accusations of sleeping her way to promotions on top of that.
3. Imagine trying to <em>get</em> it there

Modifié par Quething, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:59 .

[ashlover mark 2]

i wouldnt call it giveing up,you presented a sound argument with legitimate reasons for ash not to just shut up and take shepards word for it.....shepard chose to go with cerberus and tried to down play it and erase all the **** theyve done in the past beacuse now their helping.ash not swallowing that crap let him now how she felt about it.

like i said before bruised video gameing egos....why date someone who questions you when you can date someone who sits at your feet and smiles at everything you say right.


god forbide on these forums that another charecter in mass effect has a diffrent oppion than commander shepard and tells him what he can do with his....BECAUSE SHEPARD IS GOD!!!!!

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:04 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

i wouldnt call it giveing up,you presented a sound argument with legitimate reasons for ash not to just shut up and take shepards word for it.....shepard chose to go with cerberus and tried to down play it and erase all the **** theyve done in the past beacuse now their helping.ash not swallowing that crap let him now how she felt about it.

like i said before bruised video gameing egos....why date someone who questions you when you can date someone who sits at your feet and smiles at everything you say right.


god forbide on these forums that another charecter in mass effect has a diffrent oppion than commander shepard and tells him what he can do with his....BECAUSE SHEPARD IS GOD!!!!!

can I get an amen!? LOL

but seriously though... I think you have it exactly right. They all just got butthurt that Ash wouldn't just agree with whatever they said and follow GOD!Shepard blindly. They like their LIs to just sit there, look pretty, and be available for a love scene. 

Those people make me sick.  ... which is exactly why I can't respect anyone who decides to romance Ash now, b/c she's suddenly hot looking (when she already was to begin with), not b/c they like who she is. 

[MillaShepard]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

i wouldnt call it giveing up,you presented a sound argument with legitimate reasons for ash not to just shut up and take shepards word for it.....shepard chose to go with cerberus and tried to down play it and erase all the **** theyve done in the past beacuse now their helping.ash not swallowing that crap let him now how she felt about it.

like i said before bruised video gameing egos....why date someone who questions you when you can date someone who sits at your feet and smiles at everything you say right.


god forbide on these forums that another charecter in mass effect has a diffrent oppion than commander shepard and tells him what he can do with his....BECAUSE SHEPARD IS GOD!!!!!

can I get an amen!? LOL

but seriously though... I think you have it exactly right. They all just got butthurt that Ash wouldn't just agree with whatever they said and follow GOD!Shepard blindly. They like their LIs to just sit there, look pretty, and be available for a love scene. 

Those people make me sick.  ... which is exactly why I can't respect anyone who decides to romance Ash now, b/c she's suddenly hot looking (when she already was to begin with), not b/c they like who she is. 

Ya.. Hopefully those people will go back and play ME1 and really get to know Ash.  That's the only redeeming quality I'll be able to accept when it comes to THOSE people.  

[Nightdragon8]

nah I liked ash to begin with, i have saves for all the LI also some of the betryals.

I never had a problem with Ash, sure didn't like the fact that she wouldn't even listen to Shep on Horizon, but the Mail from her afterwards made it ok.

[AresXX7]

elektrego wrote...

Funeral/Memorial service:

In my mind Ashley always made a trip to Eden Prime to mourn privately for her skipper, regardless if there ever was an official service. She would lay down some flowers at the place, where they first met and words run wildly through her head, memories, poems, but her lips remain unmoving.

That does sound very much like something Ash would do.

[Telemachus78]

Growth doesn't mean a complete reversal of values. I hope that the Mass Effect team knows this because the DA2 team did not and that is why I am a little concerned. As according to Ash "I am an Alliance soldier. It's in my blood" and if she doesn't have that in her character then it is not Ash.

P.S. Unless the Alliance did something so terrible that she wouldn't want anything to do with the Alliance. Such as secretly backing Cerberus because they believe they should rule the universe.

[Telemachus78]

Some Ash for your viewing pleasure.

[ADLegend21]

Telemachus78 wrote...

Growth doesn't mean a complete reversal of values. I hope that the Mass Effect team knows this because the DA2 team did not and that is why I am a little concerned. As according to Ash "I am an Alliance soldier. It's in my blood" and if she doesn't have that in her character then it is not Ash.

P.S. Unless the Alliance did something so terrible that she wouldn't want anything to do with the Alliance. Such as secretly backing Cerberus because they believe they should rule the universe.

She might change that attitude about Cerberus and maybe the allaince when/if she finds out her grandfather help found Cerberus all those years ago.

Also depending on what changes that could be development. I've said I'd never do things (go to six flags america when they put that on top of adventure world here, Read Harry potter, not romance Ashley since I first met her on Horizon, etc.) so stuff can change within months, so forget about that not changing in 3 years and several promotions and becoming a Spectre.

[Xeranx]

Telemachus78 wrote...

Growth doesn't mean a complete reversal of values. I hope that the Mass Effect team knows this because the DA2 team did not and that is why I am a little concerned. As according to Ash "I am an Alliance soldier. It's in my blood" and if she doesn't have that in her character then it is not Ash.

P.S. Unless the Alliance did something so terrible that she wouldn't want anything to do with the Alliance. Such as secretly backing Cerberus because they believe they should rule the universe.

Exactly.  

For example:  I'll wear jeans that have their company emblem/logo on the waist or somewhere inconspicuous.  I hate the idea of wearing jeans that have loud, obnoxious designs along the pant leg or on the pockets.  Anything that serves to make me a veritable marquee for the company.  

Change does not equal growth. For me to go out and buy said loud jeans is not an example of growth, but of change.

I won't say I told you so, elektrego.  I don't ever want to be able to say "I told you so" in a case like this.  I want to be wrong, but I'm concerned.  I've expressed the 'told you so' attitude when the re-color of her suit came out and that was because people called me and others sexist when discussing what she was wearing in the E3 video.  I understand no one wants to be wrong, but when something starts trying to label you as something unfavorable you want to dig it in as much as you can without (hopefully) being too much the a-hole they were.  That's not to say I view you that way or that you came across that way, but I just wanted to offer an example of when I would do such a thing and why.

[Telemachus78]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Telemachus78 wrote...

Growth doesn't mean a complete reversal of values. I hope that the Mass Effect team knows this because the DA2 team did not and that is why I am a little concerned. As according to Ash "I am an Alliance soldier. It's in my blood" and if she doesn't have that in her character then it is not Ash.

P.S. Unless the Alliance did something so terrible that she wouldn't want anything to do with the Alliance. Such as secretly backing Cerberus because they believe they should rule the universe.

She might change that attitude about Cerberus and maybe the allaince when/if she finds out her grandfather help found Cerberus all those years ago.

Also depending on what changes that could be development. I've said I'd never do things (go to six flags america when they put that on top of adventure world here, Read Harry potter, not romance Ashley since I first met her on Horizon, etc.) so stuff can change within months, so forget about that not changing in 3 years and several promotions and becoming a Spectre.

Her grandfather help start Cerberus!?! Thats news too me. Also if she found out her grandfather started Cerberus I would think she would be pissed. From everything she has seen in ME1 especially after they killed Admiral Kahoku. Obviously no matter amount of love could change her ideas of Cerberus as we could see on Horizon. Going back on values is not the same as saying you'll never read Harry Potter and reading it. Values don't change in the matter of years unlesss you are a teenager and Ash is not.

[ADLegend21]

Telemachus78 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Telemachus78 wrote...

Growth doesn't mean a complete reversal of values. I hope that the Mass Effect team knows this because the DA2 team did not and that is why I am a little concerned. As according to Ash "I am an Alliance soldier. It's in my blood" and if she doesn't have that in her character then it is not Ash.

P.S. Unless the Alliance did something so terrible that she wouldn't want anything to do with the Alliance. Such as secretly backing Cerberus because they believe they should rule the universe.

She might change that attitude about Cerberus and maybe the allaince when/if she finds out her grandfather help found Cerberus all those years ago.

Also depending on what changes that could be development. I've said I'd never do things (go to six flags america when they put that on top of adventure world here, Read Harry potter, not romance Ashley since I first met her on Horizon, etc.) so stuff can change within months, so forget about that not changing in 3 years and several promotions and becoming a Spectre.

Her grandfather help start Cerberus!?! Thats news too me. Also if she found out her grandfather started Cerberus I would think she would be pissed. From everything she has seen in ME1 especially after they killed Admiral Kahoku. Obviously no matter amount of love could change her ideas of Cerberus as we could see on Horizon. Going back on values is not the same as saying you'll never read Harry Potter and reading it. Values don't change in the matter of years unlesss you are a teenager and Ash is not.

So then how does a Sole survivor Shepard work for Cerberus? granted as a game it's forced, but in game nothing is keeping Shepard from going back to the citadel and resuing their spectre duties and renouncing cerberus. That's a value change that's happened in a day for Shepard since they've been dead until Cerberus got them back to life. Ashley's had time, and events to change her, Shepard just had a trip to whatever lies after death.

[Badpie]

There's no proof that Gen. Williams helped found Cerberus. It's all just speculation given his involvement with TIM in the comic. I for one, think this would be a crazy interesting little twist.

And I've always felt the Alliance is in bed with Cerberus. No doubt. Would be interesting to see all that too.

If this is done right Ash has the potential to do some serious changing in her life. If she finds out her grandfather or the Alliance isn't what she thought it was (and maybe she already knows by the time ME3 rolls around), then most of what she's held true in life is shattered.

As for sole survivor Shep, yeah they screwed the pooch on that one in game. But ultimately he didn't really have a choice. He went to Anderson. He went to the Council. He had a job to do and as much as he hated Cerberus they were the only ones who believed him and were doing anything about it. Not to mention he was pretty sure he wasn't coming back from the suicide mission so he didn't have a problem making a deal with the devil, as it were.

[DWH1982]

The way I always role play it - Edwin Shepard has become obsessed with the Reapers. He hates Cerberus, but the thought of the Reapers dominates his mind to the point where he pushes his feelings about Cerberus aside so he can work to fight the Collectors.

He often has doubts about what he is doing, about whether he has become a little too much like the Illusive Man, or even Saren - but he always places those thoughts aside to focuse on his goal. At the end of the final mission in ME2, when he disobeys the Illusive Man's order to save the base, Shepard is once again taking control of himself, reasserting that no matter how much he might be haunted by the Reapers, there are still limits on what he will do - "I won't let fear change who I am."

[Telemachus78]

@ADL: I play as a sole survivor and the way Shep was forced to work with Cerberus almost ruined ME2 for me. The thing that saved it for me was all the anti-Cerberus dialogue and choice options. Pretty much every time there was an option to tell TIM where to shove it Shep did it. My Shep also never willingly gave anything to Cerberus.
Also forcing Shep to work for Cerberus after all of the absolutely heinous things they did in ME1 was bad writing. You can thank a change in writers for that and is why I am worried about the change in writers for Ash.

[ADLegend21]

Telemachus78 wrote...

@ADL: I play as a sole survivor and the way Shep was forced to work with Cerberus almost ruined ME2 for me. The thing that saved it for me was all the anti-Cerberus dialogue and choice options. Pretty much every time there was an option to tell TIM where to shove it Shep did it. My Shep also never willingly gave anything to Cerberus.
Also forcing Shep to work for Cerberus after all of the absolutely heinous things they did in ME1 was bad writing. You can thank a change in writers for that and is why I am worried about the change in writers for Ash.

while that may have ruined it for you, it made the game for alot of people jsut seeign hoq fragile the system was after Sovereign and like Jacob said "They don't want to public to know how close the bad guys are" they know damn well the reapers are coming, Ash knows as well and I can't iagine she was giving Anderson or Udina a hard time during all the whitewashing of Shepard, claiing she was mentally unstable, manipulated, etc. If ashley's still tough as nails, and doesn't back down from a challenge, she's still Ash.

[DWH1982]

What bothers me most are the DLC missions: Firewalker and Overlord.

I love those missions, but I have a hard time understanding why my Shepard - who despires Cerberus and mainly works with them out of an almost Captain Ahab like obsession over the Reapers - would undertake non-Reaper related side missions to help Cerberus.

The logic I use is that my Shepard is a paragon, and is helping out simply because he knows lives are endangered. Basically the same logic I use with the "captured Cerberus agent" side mission we get early in the game.

At times it seems like pretty weak logic, though. At least the agent side mission gives you the option of screwing Cerberus by uploading the data to the Alliance.

Modifié par DWH1982, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:22 .

[ADLegend21]

Keeping it on topic with Ash, I wonder how Me3 will be different if you kept the base, since in Arrival Shepard says "you don't seem to have reservations about stepping onto a Cerberus Ship" to which Hackett says "if they're fighting the Reapers we can play nice" would Ashley have the same sentiment if Hackett's been supporting Shepard through and through (along with the denial to capture and "interrogate" Shepard in his LoTSB dossier)

[Telemachus78]

@DWH: I like that Captain Ahab view point. I never saw it that way. It's very interesting. The duty to protect innocents is the logic I tried to implement with my Shep. Also try to find anyway to hurt Cerberus from the inside.

edit: @ADL: I always saved Arrival for the last thing to do. Since I always tell TIM where to shove it after the Collector base is destroyed, Hackett's response to that question is "I'm not sure this is a Cerberus vessel anymore." So in my playthrough Shep has no connections to Cerberus so I am sure Ash will be fine with supporting my Shep.

Modifié par Telemachus78, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:48 .

[ADLegend21]

Telemachus78 wrote...

@DWH: I like that Captain Ahab view point. I never saw it that way. It's very interesting. The duty to protect innocents is the logic I tried to implement with my Shep. Also try to find anyway to hurt Cerberus from the inside.

edit: @ADL: I always saved Arrival for the last thing to do. Since I always tell TIM where to shove it after the Collector base is destroyed, Hackett's response to that question is "I'm not sure this is a Cerberus vessel anymore." So in my playthrough Shep has no connections to Cerberus so I am sure Ash will be fine with supporting my Shep.

lol tele that wasn't the point!

I'm wondering how she'll react to Shepard's who saved the base since that still makes the Normandy a cerberus vessel.

[Badpie]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Telemachus78 wrote...

@DWH: I like that Captain Ahab view point. I never saw it that way. It's very interesting. The duty to protect innocents is the logic I tried to implement with my Shep. Also try to find anyway to hurt Cerberus from the inside.

edit: @ADL: I always saved Arrival for the last thing to do. Since I always tell TIM where to shove it after the Collector base is destroyed, Hackett's response to that question is "I'm not sure this is a Cerberus vessel anymore." So in my playthrough Shep has no connections to Cerberus so I am sure Ash will be fine with supporting my Shep.

lol tele that wasn't the point!

I'm wondering how she'll react to Shepard's who saved the base since that still makes the Normandy a cerberus vessel.

Well, somehow either way the Alliance gets ahold of the SR2.  So technically it's not a Cerberus vessel anymore even if you sided with TIM in keeping the base. All that will probably be explained away pretty easily.