WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Tali is terrible at leadership and authority because she lacks confidence in herself. She doubts herself at every turn.
Modifié par aRandomNoob, 05 avril 2012 - 07:17 .
Tali does seem to be too considerate of others..... But come to think of it, I'm not really clear on her whole attitude towards people that arent Shepard aka the love of her life. Her private life is pretty private. You don't see her conversing with other characters very often... I wonder what she is like outside of Shepard's influence?ViolentSleep wrote...
In the former situation, I figured it was because she wasn't actually a soldier and so wasn't respected by those under her command. Combine with her general unwillingness to be ruthless in keeping people in line, I'm not surprised they didn't listen to her. They seemed very gun ho, so probably didn't regard Tali as someone worth listening to. She was "just a mechanic".
On Haestrom...dunno. We only come in to the mission when the Geth have killed off everyone so we don't see what decisions she made or what her team was like. NO data available basically.
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:13 .
Modifié par Unschuld, 05 avril 2012 - 07:14 .
You're right about Haestrom being a bad example, but it was pretty clear at the admiralty board meeting that Tali wasn't very authoritative, right?Fenrisfil wrote...
Well a lot of people get their entire squads wiped out and still get considered good leaders. Some Shepards for one. But also Garrus and he's one of the top leaders for the fire squad in ME2. Grunt get's his entire squad wiped out if you save the Rachni Queen. Vega got his squad wiped out too and then got awarded N7 status. I think it's a bit harsh on Tali the Haestrom thing. If they hadn't completley dropped the dark energy angle her mission could have ended up being a key event in the entire series.
As for the Admiralty position, well the fact that she was given that role says a lot. But anyone awarded honorary Admiral status is bound to face a fair amount of disrespect from other Admirals. Again you could look at Grunt there for his elevation to team leader. Of course many would think she didn't earn it. That's not true of course but Quarians are insular and don't put as much weight on her saving the whole Galaxy as we would.
She is relieved when Shepard is around, but then who wouldn't be? Well Udina maybe and some other jerks. She has confidence issues for sure, but she is capable of leadership when she needs ot be.
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:16 .
Modifié par Ryuji2, 05 avril 2012 - 07:22 .
WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Uuuugh...blood....
Fenrisfil wrote...
As for the Admiralty position, well the fact that she was given that role says a lot. But anyone awarded honorary Admiral status is bound to face a fair amount of disrespect from other Admirals. Again you could look at Grunt there for his elevation to team leader. Of course many would think she didn't earn it. That's not true of course but Quarians are insular and don't put as much weight on her saving the whole Galaxy as we would.
She is relieved when Shepard is around, but then who wouldn't be? Well Udina maybe and some other jerks. She has confidence issues for sure, but she is capable of leadership when she needs ot be.
Ryuji2 wrote...
I'd chime in about the authority thing but a lot of good points I was gonna say were used already. Long story short, she needs confidence as she's still pretty reserved and shy, although a little less so by the time 3's around. Given time and some more experience with leadership, she'd probably get a lot better at it.
Kinda can't discuss stuff though, too busy thinking of the "art" Bioware keeps talking about with the endings.
*downs a glass of scotch*
Mad, I hope you don't mine but I...commandeered a bottle from behind the bar. Will pay for it later.
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:22 .
Ryuji2 wrote...
<snip>
*downs a glass of scotch*
Mad, I hope you don't mine but I...commandeered a bottle from behind the bar. Will pay for it later.
darthrevaninlight wrote...
I am also miffed about this.
But I have a convenient oppurtunity to write an essay on it. It should get a lot of it out of my system. Easy A, and a lot more fun of a topic than I thought possible xD
I remember writing a few essays about Bioware and how genuine and creative they were with stories. Well, the ending leaves a sour taste in my mouth, that's for sure. I know Shepard's story was supposed to be done with 3, but after ALL he went through, he had to suffer all that? Bittersweet's fine so long as...y'know, there's the SWEET part as well as the bitter. 
Modifié par Ryuji2, 05 avril 2012 - 07:26 .
I think the main problem with the ending was that it was way too anticlimactic. You really didn't feel like you were saving the galaxy. Everything was way too easy. Nothing was really remotely challenging, it was all just laid out, you only had to move from point A to point B. Art has layers; the ending made Mass Effect go from three-dimensional to one-dimensional.Ryuji2 wrote...
Heh, well I'm glad you're able to get something out of their..."art."
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:30 .
WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Fenrisfil wrote...
As for the Admiralty position, well the fact that she was given that role says a lot. But anyone awarded honorary Admiral status is bound to face a fair amount of disrespect from other Admirals. Again you could look at Grunt there for his elevation to team leader. Of course many would think she didn't earn it. That's not true of course but Quarians are insular and don't put as much weight on her saving the whole Galaxy as we would.
She is relieved when Shepard is around, but then who wouldn't be? Well Udina maybe and some other jerks. She has confidence issues for sure, but she is capable of leadership when she needs ot be.
I disagree. It's just like how Garrus was made a general in ME3. They had no choice. Tali was one of the foremost experts on the geth. She wasn't given the post for her leadership. She was given it for her technical expertise. The fact she was given it just tells us the admirals were in a desperate situation and looking to boost their odds in any way possible.
They used Tali. But she used them as well.
She's still a terrible leader.
Yeah I agree it's more fun this way.Fenrisfil wrote...
Well assuming no one here let Tali die then her role as Admiral resulted in complete success. Planet reclaimed and Geth either dead or made peace with. Plus her mission where her squad died was technically a success. The data was recovered. She also was successful on Freedoms Progress. That puts her at 3 for 3. Garrus got played and had his squad die for no reason. Vega also had his squad die for no reason as Shepard was busily fixing the situation elsewhere.
Overall I don't see any evidence for her being terrible.
But I don't mind being the only person here that thinks so. The discussion would be far too quick if everyone just agreed right away.
TrueMadayar wrote...
I could KILL...another purchase lost. It was a gamble, but ARGH! I hate this so much...I blame. I do truly blame.
No MP for me anymore. I just am fed up. Single player ruined by Bioware, Multiplayer ruined by store...ARGH!
darthrevaninlight wrote...
I think the main problem with the ending was that it was way too anticlimactic. You really didn't feel like you were saving the galaxy. Everything was way too easy. Nothing was really remotely challenging, it was all just laid out, you only had to move from point A to point B. Art has layers; the ending made Mass Effect go from three-dimensional to one-dimensional.
I just.... I hate it. As an author, as a fan, it's just terrible. All that pro build-up so they could make an amateur mistake. Not good storytelling. Not good follow-through. And they left in their wake an ocean of broken promises.
Twere Tali not a part of Mass Effect, all my ME games would be sold to someone that would enjoy it blissfully and ignorantly. Instead, I hold the line.
Modifié par Ryuji2, 05 avril 2012 - 07:34 .
Fenrisfil wrote...
Well assuming no one here let Tali die then her role as Admiral resulted in complete success. Planet reclaimed and Geth either dead or made peace with. Plus her mission where her squad died was technically a success. The data was recovered. She also was successful on Freedoms Progress. That puts her at 3 for 3. Garrus got played and had his squad die for no reason. Vega also had his squad die for no reason as Shepard was busily fixing the situation elsewhere.
Overall I don't see any evidence for her being terrible.
But I don't mind being the only person here that thinks so. The discussion would be far too quick if everyone just agreed right away.
grrrrRyuji2 wrote...
darthrevaninlight wrote...
I think the main problem with the ending was that it was way too anticlimactic. You really didn't feel like you were saving the galaxy. Everything was way too easy. Nothing was really remotely challenging, it was all just laid out, you only had to move from point A to point B. Art has layers; the ending made Mass Effect go from three-dimensional to one-dimensional.
I just.... I hate it. As an author, as a fan, it's just terrible. All that pro build-up so they could make an amateur mistake. Not good storytelling. Not good follow-through. And they left in their wake an ocean of broken promises.
Twere Tali not a part of Mass Effect, all my ME games would be sold to someone that would enjoy it blissfully and ignorantly. Instead, I hold the line.
Pretty much. I haven't touched the single player campaign in weeks. Had a second playthrough of my "canon" Shepard(Tali LI) and stopped right before the mission to Earth. I guess that same campaign will sit there until the DLC is released so I can go through Earth and the HATEFUL missile defense part(banshees + brutes + A REAPER LASER?! AND I CAN'T SAVE?!) and see the new ending.
...Gonna be a long spring.
Twilight makes everything look better what are you talking about.Fenrisfil wrote...
WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Uuuugh...blood....
Blood used to be cool... Until Twilight ruined it for everyone.
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:41 .
darthrevaninlight wrote...
I think the main problem with the ending was that it was way too anticlimactic. You really didn't feel like you were saving the galaxy. Everything was way too easy. Nothing was really remotely challenging, it was all just laid out, you only had to move from point A to point B. Art has layers; the ending made Mass Effect go from three-dimensional to one-dimensional.Ryuji2 wrote...
Heh, well I'm glad you're able to get something out of their..."art."
I just.... I hate it. As an author, as a fan, it's just terrible. All that pro build-up so they could make an amateur mistake. Not good storytelling. Not good follow-through. And they left in their wake an ocean of broken promises.
Twere Tali not a part of Mass Effect, all my ME games would be sold to someone that would enjoy it blissfully and ignorantly. Instead, I hold the line.
Modifié par darthrevaninlight, 05 avril 2012 - 07:44 .
darthrevaninlight wrote...
grrrr
That reminded me of the other thing that annoyed me... that they made the gameplay so much better but completely lost creativity with using it.
argh. argggg!!!!!
....anyway, Tali is really cute.
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