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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*


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#3326
Terumitsu

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StellarMagic wrote...

Well... we have a couple references to the cultural effects. Linking of suit environments for example, but despite Tali being the quarian codex in ME1 we didn't get much more detail then that.

However, we can extrapolate from what is known and come to some conclusions.

1. Quarians are primarily monogamous (Humans aren't nearly as monogamous as we'd like to claim), likely one mate for life due to the difficulty of both adjusting to the bacteria present in other members of their own species (hence the linking of suit environments) and the dangers inherent in sexual contact due to their weaken immune system.

2. The inability to read expressions due to the visors has lead to Quarians be more emotive in both speech and body language.

3. The inability to kiss loved ones will result in a symbolic means to relay the same meaning despite the suit. Most FF writers go with visor touches as the most obvious means of relaying this.

4. Lack of access to clean rooms for sexual release and the dangers of sexual contact has led to the widespread use of nerve stimulation programs by both males and females. Even Tali uses one.

Some physiological results of long term suited life.

1. Significant increase in sensitivity to touch due to the deadening of such sensations through the suit. Like a blind man hearing better then normal their brain has conditioned itself to compensate for the suit. You can come up with your own ideas on how this affects Tali and Shepard's pre-Omega 4 time together...

2. Epidermal effects... Suffice to say having lived in a skin tight suit all your life is going to affect your skin... how exactly is something that can be debated round and round since we don't know Quarian biochemistry that well.

3. Photo-sensitivity... The visor is tinted and it's always on. This leads to sensitivity to light if removed, but this may actually have always been a physiological aspect of Quarian biology. Hence the glowing or eyeshine.


I think the underlined issue of the physiological alterations is a non-issue as the aformentioned nerve stimulation programs were origionally designed so that it wouldn't feel as if there was a suit there in the first place. However, the brain still knows that there is a barrier there which likely psychologically 'dampens' the sense of touch as it keeps thinking, conciously or subconciously, that there is a barrier there. So, in short, I partially agree with the outcome but due to different reasons.

But anyway, on to how I would project that suited life affects Quarians later down the line (Assuming they survive ME3 and get their homeworld back):

I think I will start out by drawing a few paralells to human history/culture. Japan, specifically. In old Japan, there was simply not much space. This was due to the very mountainous nature of the country leaving very few places that were geographically stable enough to actually build on. Now, while the numbers of population were small, and thus not exactly a problem with crowding, this caused each area that was both fertile for farming and level enough to live on to grow into it's own sort of city/nation-state ruled over by it's own warlord. Now, to abbreviate history a bit, city-states in close proximity to each other do not often get along when one sees the resources of the other. Thus, there were many-many-many border conflicts. At least until some got the idea that peaceful co-existance made for a more enjoyable life.... Of course, there were always those that really liked war and would go kicking around for trouble but there are those types everywhere. In any case, in order to help keep a level head about things, a sort of social code came into being. Now, I can't say exactly when or where it started but I can say that this code of interpersonal communication does have it's roots in China, which is where the Japanese people migrated from. Now, hop forward to current day Japan and we have a language which is heavily contextualized that has lots of tie-ins to body language and is almost excessively polite. There is also an interesting thing to note about personal space, being that the accepted 'personal space bubble' is one of the largest in the world (roughly 6 feet/2 meters which is large enough for two people to do a decent bow at the same time without knocking heads). While this may seem paradoxical considering that many cities are just about stuffed to the gills, it has it's roots in the old social code while also being a sort of 'reaction' to this crowding. That is to say, the old ways are kept alive out of social necessity. I am sure I missed something or got something wrong here but I belive I have communicated the gist of the matter.

Now, on to the Quarians.

Now, we know that space, both physical and personal, on the Migrant Fleet is a premium. However, the Quarian people have also been noted as being very social... Which brings up a sort of conflict if/when they return to their homeworld. By that, I mean to say that the reaction to suddenly having all the space one could want after living almost like sardines will be very enticing to just spread out over a large area but doing so would be straining on the social structure simply due to distance. It would also be a bad idea to do so, in my opinion, as that would make emergency situations that much harder to deal with. Ultimately, though, I think the social binding would win out over the urge to expand to result in... Well, a sort of Quarian Tokyo. Maybe not nearly as much high of a population density as the city but with a similar structure... Or perhaps there will be a 'just as high' if not larger population density but due to the more advanced building techniques avalible in the MEverse, it will not be a problem as one can build upwards for quite a bit more than here and now on Earth.

Now, something else to note is that there seems to be some mild factionalism between the ships of the Fleet if one speaks to the captain of the Rayya at different points during Tali's loyalty mission. This is not unexpected. In fact, it is entirely appropriate as each ship is more or less a city-state with all of them together forming a sort of nation. Also: An interesting article. Basically, the gist of the article is that one can only hold so many people in their brain and 'dehumanizes' others to catagories for basic interaction purposes. It is this same mechanism that allows the brain to anthropormise a group of people, or city, or country and feel pride or shame for it. Thus, it is not a far off idea to think that each Quarian has their own anthropormized verson of the Fleet in their heads as a "Them" catagory while the people they see and speak to every day as an "Us" catagory. I think this too will play into the rebuilding of Rannoch, turning each ship into it's own suburb or pseudocity... Actually, this combined with the whole 'building upwards' thing makes me think of dozens if not hudreds of towers of varying sizes with a network of bridges linking them all at various elevations. Personally, that sounds like a wicked cool city. The idea of such combines both the factionalistic and 'nationalistic' psychologies and holds true with the need for space and social networking.

A note on building the new city(s) though: I feel that this is the course that the Quarians will take rather than just go back into the buildings that have been possibly kept in repair by the geth for the reason that said things are history. To try and make that idea more clear, it would be like finding an ancient city and deciding to live in it as it meets the basic need of shelter. This is simply not done (at least on a large scale. Likely there will be a few who will). I think the predomenant idea among the Quarians would be to simply let the old structures be for a while before slowy re-intigrating them into cultural and social use as time goes by. There is likely a lot of history present in the old constructions and I think many would want to preserve that.

As a final note, I personally would bet money that, once the Quarians have gotten settled back into their homeworld, there will be a large scale cultural revolution. I don't have enough information to make many specific remarks but I'm also betting that the long-term use of the envirosuits will also affect things like fashion and technological philosophy as the idea for the Entire race for both is dedicated to function first. I would hazard a guess that both will be very minimal for quite some time. Of course, this can also likely be diluted somewhat by the effects of interacting with the galactic community again as I feel pretty sure that they will be somewhat less isolationist after a while out of necessity.

Anyway, that's the ramble. Pardon if it was a bit misleading due to the reference of 'suited life' but I think that is a good metaphor for how lack of space and resources will affect the direction of the culture in the future.

So, thoughts?

Modifié par Terumitsu, 28 juillet 2011 - 06:12 .


#3327
Weiser_Cain

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I'm pretty monogamous.

#3328
Havoc10K

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I think that Quarrians are the best example of "The exterior doesn't matter, it's the inside that matters most" rule :)
Something Humans can only actually dream about because we are generally looking at the outside of a person first, and then on the inside, in Quarrians case and Tali+Shep romance plot, this is especially present, we need to learn about tali's personality a lot, get to know her, and in the end, Shep gets to see how Tali looks like. In a way this is very romantic :)

#3329
JustAFerret

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Havoc10K wrote...

I think that Quarrians are the best example of "The exterior doesn't matter, it's the inside that matters most" rule :)
Something Humans can only actually dream about because we are generally looking at the outside of a person first, and then on the inside, in Quarrians case and Tali+Shep romance plot, this is especially present, we need to learn about tali's personality a lot, get to know her, and in the end, Shep gets to see how Tali looks like. In a way this is very romantic :)

That's why Tali's romance is my favorite, and in my opion, the best one. It's more meaningful and their history together makes it a really warm thing. Shepard decided to go past the suit and see Tali for who she is rather than who most think she is. All of that makes it a platinum move on bioware's part. Or I'm just a sucker for the "best friends become more than friends" thing. It's like a fairy-tale.Posted Image

#3330
Terumitsu

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Havoc10K wrote...

I think that Quarrians are the best example of "The exterior doesn't matter, it's the inside that matters most" rule :)
Something Humans can only actually dream about because we are generally looking at the outside of a person first, and then on the inside, in Quarrians case and Tali+Shep romance plot, this is especially present, we need to learn about tali's personality a lot, get to know her, and in the end, Shep gets to see how Tali looks like. In a way this is very romantic :)


Pretty much this for me as well. There is also more than a little initerest in Quarians as a whole muddled in there as well but mostly the already stated former.

#3331
StellarMagic

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On the issue of how the Quarians would spread across Rannoch... I think there's a rather obvious answer to how it would be handled.

Settlements would be established around ship crews and or individual clans. Large ships like the Rayya would become large cities on the ground while smaller ones would become towns and villages. Not only that, it would leave the existing political structure of the conclave intact, just moved ground side.

Tali - Shepard's Romance also has the added benefit of being between two people that have known each other before so it's obviously got a bit more of a foundation then the other ME2 maleshep options. Then there's just how much risk Tali is willing to take in pursuit of the relationship...

#3332
Terumitsu

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StellarMagic wrote...

On the issue of how the Quarians would spread across Rannoch... I think there's a rather obvious answer to how it would be handled.

Settlements would be established around ship crews and or individual clans. Large ships like the Rayya would become large cities on the ground while smaller ones would become towns and villages. Not only that, it would leave the existing political structure of the conclave intact, just moved ground side.


That's also a perfectly valid outcome. I just personally think the each ship being turned into it's own tower-city-segment while being connected to others via various bridges and other means to be a really cool mental image.

#3333
Havoc10K

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True about Tali's resolve, it's more life and death for her than for anyone else, maybe with exception of Samara's daughter lol, but anyways, a Quarrian doesn't "open up" like tali did to Shep just to anyone, as Tali mentioned, quarrians, even among theier people usually only link suits, that is the most intimate moment for them, Tali made a huge step forward just for Shep.

#3334
StellarMagic

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Yeah... it makes an "I love you" line really seem redundant for Tali, well coming from her... Shep saying it on the other hand would be huge for Tali since it's suggested her father never could say it.

#3335
Uzrbital

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Havoc10K wrote...

True about Tali's resolve, it's more life and death for her than for anyone else, maybe with exception of Samara's daughter lol, but anyways, a Quarrian doesn't "open up" like tali did to Shep just to anyone, as Tali mentioned, quarrians, even among theier people usually only link suits, that is the most intimate moment for them, Tali made a huge step forward just for Shep.


Must be gay... "Ohai der, I can see your face!" 
...
How is that similar to sex? Tali did the right choice.:wub:

#3336
Swordfish56

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Not all ships would be capable of going planetside I think. The ones that aren't would probably be stripped for building materials on the ground. Maybe a few would be decommissioned and turned into a space station?

Not to mention that the more military ships of the Flotilla would remain in space...remaining the actual Quarian Navy.

And then you would have more than a few ships turned into simple merchantmen and junk haulers etc....

Needless to say, its complicated.

But when they are all done,

(To quote Tali)

I'm sure they will say "And it was totally worth it."

Modifié par Swordfish56, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:39 .


#3337
StellarMagic

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Well, the liveships are probably too big to land. Those would probably be turned into space stations or anchor points for space elevators (like that asteroid at Terra Nova). Then there's the question of how much infrastructure remains on the planet... which would depend on how the geth maintained it.

#3338
Havoc10K

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Uzrbital wrote...

Havoc10K wrote...

True about Tali's resolve, it's more life and death for her than for anyone else, maybe with exception of Samara's daughter lol, but anyways, a Quarrian doesn't "open up" like tali did to Shep just to anyone, as Tali mentioned, quarrians, even among theier people usually only link suits, that is the most intimate moment for them, Tali made a huge step forward just for Shep.


Must be gay... "Ohai der, I can see your face!" 
...
How is that similar to sex? Tali did the right choice.:wub:

wut ???

#3339
Uzrbital

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Havoc10K wrote...

Uzrbital wrote...

Havoc10K wrote...

True about Tali's resolve, it's more life and death for her than for anyone else, maybe with exception of Samara's daughter lol, but anyways, a Quarrian doesn't "open up" like tali did to Shep just to anyone, as Tali mentioned, quarrians, even among theier people usually only link suits, that is the most intimate moment for them, Tali made a huge step forward just for Shep.


Must be gay... "Ohai der, I can see your face!" 
...
How is that similar to sex? Tali did the right choice.:wub:

wut ???


You're not the only one who is confused :unsure: 

#3340
T.Attwood

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Havoc10K wrote...

I think that Quarrians are the best example of "The exterior doesn't matter, it's the inside that matters most" rule :)
Something Humans can only actually dream about because we are generally looking at the outside of a person first, and then on the inside, in Quarrians case and Tali+Shep romance plot, this is especially present, we need to learn about tali's personality a lot, get to know her, and in the end, Shep gets to see how Tali looks like. In a way this is very romantic :)


Indeed. That part when you are romancing Tali, and she says something like "I wasn't sure if you would be able to see past...this!" and points to her helmet. It was a memorable moment which made me think about the wider implications of how society treats people. It is little things like this which made me realise some of the depth that has gone into writing this character, more so than the other LI's in the game.

#3341
Swordfish56

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And since everyone is confused....have a Tali : )

Posted Image

#3342
Uzrbital

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Swordfish56 wrote...

And since everyone is confused....have a Tali : )

Posted Image

A stress relief.

#3343
Guest_Lezlie.Shep_*

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Swordfish56 wrote...

And since everyone is confused....have a Tali : )
*snip*

Ah yes, stress relief. ^^

#3344
Tasha vas Nar Rayya

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T.Attwood wrote...

Indeed. That part when you are romancing Tali, and she says something like "I wasn't sure if you would be able to see past...this!" and points to her helmet. It was a memorable moment which made me think about the wider implications of how society treats people. It is little things like this which made me realise some of the depth that has gone into writing this character, more so than the other LI's in the game.

I think this is why Tali's and Garrus' romances are often compared, not only are they both awkward in their approach, but they are both examples of a relationship that doesn't focus on physical attraction. Well, with the unknown element of Tali's face anyway Posted Image.

#3345
Uzrbital

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Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

T.Attwood wrote...

Indeed. That part when you are romancing Tali, and she says something like "I wasn't sure if you would be able to see past...this!" and points to her helmet. It was a memorable moment which made me think about the wider implications of how society treats people. It is little things like this which made me realise some of the depth that has gone into writing this character, more so than the other LI's in the game.

I think this is why Tali's and Garrus' romances are often compared, not only are they both awkward in their approach, but they are both examples of a relationship that doesn't focus on physical attraction. Well, with the unknown element of Tali's face anyway Posted Image.


Tali and Garrus does also speak to each other in the WONDERFUL elevators in ME1. They probably influenced each other. Doesn't look like Tali is too happy about Garrus's approach in ME2 tho...

#3346
StellarMagic

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Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

T.Attwood wrote...

Indeed. That part when you are romancing Tali, and she says something like "I wasn't sure if you would be able to see past...this!" and points to her helmet. It was a memorable moment which made me think about the wider implications of how society treats people. It is little things like this which made me realise some of the depth that has gone into writing this character, more so than the other LI's in the game.

I think this is why Tali's and Garrus' romances are often compared, not only are they both awkward in their approach, but they are both examples of a relationship that doesn't focus on physical attraction. Well, with the unknown element of Tali's face anyway Posted Image.

Especially when combined with the factor of it being... well, old friends realizing they could be more then that.  Though in Tali's case I think there was a crush going on there in ME1...  Just something about her speech patterns and the animations she has when you talk to her suggest it to me.

Of course Tali shuts down Garrus... He liked to rag on her in ME1.

Modifié par StellarMagic, 28 juillet 2011 - 08:37 .


#3347
Tasha vas Nar Rayya

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It's just brotherly/sisterly banter ;)

#3348
Havoc10K

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Uzrbital wrote...

Havoc10K wrote...

Uzrbital wrote...

Havoc10K wrote...

True about Tali's resolve, it's more life and death for her than for anyone else, maybe with exception of Samara's daughter lol, but anyways, a Quarrian doesn't "open up" like tali did to Shep just to anyone, as Tali mentioned, quarrians, even among theier people usually only link suits, that is the most intimate moment for them, Tali made a huge step forward just for Shep.


Must be gay... "Ohai der, I can see your face!" 
...
How is that similar to sex? Tali did the right choice.:wub:

wut ???


You're not the only one who is confused :unsure: 

not confused, i understand it, but why you had to make it so ... meme.

#3349
Guest_Lezlie.Shep_*

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ROFL I love your sig Tasha. ^^

but, yeah *cough* Naked Tali for ME3 and all that....

Modifié par Lezlie.Shep, 28 juillet 2011 - 09:19 .


#3350
Tasha vas Nar Rayya

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Yeah, it is an amazing sig isn't it? When I first saw someone else using it I was staring at the screen for ages chuckling at them all.