69153 réponses à ce sujet

[bazzag]

Quarians racist? Nope, theyre prejudiced. Its an anger hinged on fact, but after 300 years, all the original quarians are dead i expect, and truth has been altered with each storytelling, so that what the current quarians think about the geth is not what they were like.

As for a drink, try moonshine.(i know, wrong state but...meh)

ps. Hi guys!

[iwillkillfortali]

Unschuld wrote...

It was pretty wild in there. Not as many people in costume as I thought, but I did give the only Tali I saw a stra-- emergency induction port when I took a picture of her and her group. Reaction was amusing, will post photos later. Phone is clunky and annoying with service issues for now.

You should have asked for a hug.

[Naltair]

TrueMadayar wrote...
Hey, Naltair. Nice to see the uniform around here again. Our opinions vary, sometimes extremely, but at least you also keep a cultured discussion style, which is rare to find among anybody.

I believe Tali was a very racist being - but only towards one thing, and that is artificial life. That definitely qualifies as racism, but it's not xenophoby. In fact she tries to show utmost tolerance towards all organic beings, mostly keeping a low profile. However, she grew up learning that the Geth are the worst horror in the universe and no AI is different from that. Later on her father was killed by them, before that she was nearly killed, and her suit riddled with polonium rounds, because she discovered somebody working with the Geth. Before Legion and EDI, she had no contact with any morally acceptable AI - even the one on the citadel wanted to blow her up.

Thank you.

I agree with you, I think racist is a hot button word, I would prefer highly prejudiced myself against synthetics, but I was just using the term used by the BioWare rep in the Pax panel.  Tali is brought up in a culture that was nearly eradicated by their own AI creations.  it stands to reason that until she gets more contact with synthetics, the Geth specifically, she would be highly prejudiced against them.  But we also know that despite the overall sentiment of anti-synthetic sentiment within Quarian culture, there are members that are much more forgiving of the Geth or even beleive that peace is possible.

One of the reasons I really enjoyed the Geth/Quarian conflict it isn't an easy situation to resolve and even peace is not assured.  I see it less as a case of synthetic versus organic and more of a case of how do two disparate societies bent on warfare for centuries find room for peace and forgiveness.  

It asks the question, can we be better than we are or are we doomed to cycles of violence?

[ShepardAndTali]

  OK here is my little doodle... Please if you dont like it keep it to yourself...  

[ShepardAndTali]

ShepardAndTali wrote...

  OK here is my little doodle... Please if you dont like it keep it to yourself...  

Why was it removed?

[iwillkillfortali]

ShepardAndTali wrote...

  OK here is my little doodle... Please if you dont like it keep it to yourself...  

I ****ING LOVE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

[bazzag]

How did you post it?

[ShepardAndTali]

^ Copy and paste...

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

ShepardAndTali wrote...

  OK here is my little doodle... Please if you dont like it keep it to yourself...  

I ****ING LOVE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

Thats lurvley

[iwillkillfortali]

ShepardAndTali wrote...

^ Copy and paste...

Don't worry I fixed it.

[Unschuld]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

It was pretty wild in there. Not as many people in costume as I thought, but I did give the only Tali I saw a stra-- emergency induction port when I took a picture of her and her group. Reaction was amusing, will post photos later. Phone is clunky and annoying with service issues for now.

You should have asked for a hug.

Lol no, that would have been creepy. Besides, I have someone to hug at home. 

[bazzag]

ShepardAndTali wrote...

^ Copy and paste...

Did you upload it somewhere first?

Altho we can see it now

Modifié par bazzag, 06 avril 2012 - 10:43 .

[Cro730]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

ShepardAndTali wrote...

  OK here is my little doodle... Please if you dont like it keep it to yourself...  

I ****ING LOVE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

Tali is so cute!
Very good picture I like it

[ShepardAndTali]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

ShepardAndTali wrote...

^ Copy and paste...

Don't worry I fixed it.

Thanks!

[iwillkillfortali]

Unschuld wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

It was pretty wild in there. Not as many people in costume as I thought, but I did give the only Tali I saw a stra-- emergency induction port when I took a picture of her and her group. Reaction was amusing, will post photos later. Phone is clunky and annoying with service issues for now.

You should have asked for a hug.

Lol no, that would have been creepy. Besides, I have someone to hug at home. 

I did not know you had someone at home.

[Fenrisfil]

TrueMadayar wrote...

Naltair wrote...

*largesnip*

Hey, Naltair. Nice to see the uniform around here again. Our opinions vary, sometimes extremely, but at least you also keep a cultured discussion style, which is rare to find among anybody.

I believe Tali was a very racist being - but only towards one thing, and that is artificial life. That definitely qualifies as racism, but it's not xenophoby. In fact she tries to show utmost tolerance towards all organic beings, mostly keeping a low profile. However, she grew up learning that the Geth are the worst horror in the universe and no AI is different from that. Later on her father was killed by them, before that she was nearly killed, and her suit riddled with polonium rounds, because she discovered somebody working with the Geth. Before Legion and EDI, she had no contact with any morally acceptable AI - even the one on the citadel wanted to blow her up.

That being said, I agree that maybe she could've turned around her opinion quicker. But coming from a country like mine, well, let's say there are many easily succumbing to the easy, destructive solution instead of trying to make up their own mind about something many influential people claim to be true.

Well said. I think I can add my opinion now (not actually directed at TrueMadayar or Naltair, just putting it out there)

We have to put these things in context. In the whole Mass Effect universe AI's are regarded as bad. Starkid certainly thinks so, as do the Council who outlawed their creation (I think it was the council at least). So the whole Galaxy is pretty much racist against AI's to some degree. Into that you have a race that has grown up with the stories of how these evil AI's stole their homeworld. They are told this by others that grew up in the same conditions. It can't really be compared to our own perspective.

For a start we've never seen genuine AI's. We've seen fictional ones and the most memorable ones we have a lot of affection for. Chances are (I mean ME players in general here) if your playing a sci-fi game your familiar with Data from Startrek along with various other examples where ultimately AI's get proven to be very much alive. We also are quite familiar with racism between humans and can emotionally connect the two. But that's a very different perspective to what the Quarians have. Even the most sheltered of people on earth today are at least aware that racism between humans is not conisdered okay by the majority (At least I like to think that anyway, even if I'm not 100% sure). But in the ME universe, the idea of AI's being anything other then dangerous machines is pretty unheard of. We simply don't have any earth history that can be compared directly to this situation, so any comparison could only be hypothetical.

Given that, I think Tali did well to make the progress she did. It's not an easy thing to turn against everything you've been brought up to believe, everything that the Galaxy at large believes (though less aggressively) and something that has been the case in the galaxy since the very first cycle that kicked the whole Reaper thing off. We're talking hundreds of thousands of years of seeing AI's as bad and having little evidence to say otherwise. True those past cycles didn't directly pass on their opinions, but it does show that it's not an easy thing to change. Shepard changed it, with the help of Legion and EDE, but also with the help of Tali.

I would have liked her to have understood that Geth are living beings that deserve to live faster then she did. But I don't hold it against her.

And that's my opinion.

[iwillkillfortali]

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

[forthary]

Naltair wrote...

It asks the question, can we be better than we are or are we doomed to cycles of violence?

Perhaps now we stand a chance.  If the organics are aware of what happened in the previous extinction cycles, they may yet be able to act and save themselves from the same fate their ancestors had.  But there's still a chance it won't happen because they'll either realize it too late, or won't believe it.

I am glad I was able to make peace between the quarians and the geth.  When you think about it, the quarians need the geth as much as the geth need the quarians.  The quarians need a machine race to help them adapt and survive, while the geth need a organic race such as the quarians to help give them representation, as well as sentence, being, and purpose, among other things that I can't think of.

I feel like I have to be a big brother to the quarian race; quite often, they're out getting themselves killed and doing stupid things, and I end up having to step in and intervene so they don't do any more damage.  It pisses me off what the quarians do sometimes, but when you consider their spiritual behavior, as well as the fact that they are a species worthy of survival and that I love one of their species, its worth the pain I go through.  Oh Tali, where would you be now if it was not for the intervention of Commander Shepard and you survived the ambush on the citidel...

[TrueMadayar]

Naltair wrote...

I agree with you, I think racist is a hot button word, I would prefer highly prejudiced myself against synthetics, but I was just using the term used by the BioWare rep in the Pax panel.  Tali is brought up in a culture that was nearly eradicated by their own AI creations.  it stands to reason that until she gets more contact with synthetics, the Geth specifically, she would be highly prejudiced against them.  But we also know that despite the overall sentiment of anti-synthetic sentiment within Quarian culture, there are members that are much more forgiving of the Geth or even beleive that peace is possible.

One of the reasons I really enjoyed the Geth/Quarian conflict it isn't an easy situation to resolve and even peace is not assured.  I see it less as a case of synthetic versus organic and more of a case of how do two disparate societies bent on warfare for centuries find room for peace and forgiveness.  

It asks the question, can we be better than we are or are we doomed to cycles of violence?

Reading your comment I came to some other conclusion. Bioware created Tali. If her hatred for Geth was to put people off her, they just show that they have no idea how humans work. Tali is speaking with an accent, making her a minority representative. She is overwhelmed by the Geth, no way for her to get to where her people originally came from. And the Geth ARE the main opponent of the first game - you hit them in the first mission, they kill one of your men, butcher several civilians, and their leader is part synthetic and kills one of his kind. So she's oppressed - or so it seems - by somebody you get a hatred or at least disliking for from the very start.

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way. Not to forget those of different origins - my nationality, for example, has already caused in the past some immediate prejudices outside of my country. Not that I love my country, but once you're counted as "one of them", you get defensive, it's a natural thing.

So by being a representative of a surpressed people, being different from others both in looks as well as in language, with a medical condition - many can relate to that, as well - and a youthful naive fascination for your main char and its abilities...you can see how so many would accept her latant racism as a flaw, and many would go for the paragon option of reuniting and appeasing, anyway, telling her not to judge everybody the same, as well as trying to appease any trouble with her and EDI or her and Legion. She's just too likable to not trying to revert her view of artificial intelligence.

Strangest thing, the end...in the end we face a completely fascist AI, who's opinions and views are among the worst ever uttered in a game. And not unrivaled in life. And yet, we're MADE to comply...that is weird. Then again...all weird, that was.

[Fenrisfil]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

There is no solid definition of life, so that is only an assumption. Also synthetics can reproduce. That is to say they can convert other materials into a modified copy of themselves. Just rather then converting food into a baby, they convert other raw materials into another synthetic. How is that not reproduction?

[iwillkillfortali]

Fenrisfil wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

There is no solid definition of life, so that is only an assumption. Also synthetics can reproduce. That is to say they can convert other materials into a modified copy of themselves. Just rather then converting food into a baby, they convert other raw materials into another synthetic. How is that not reproduction?

But Machines don't have cells.

[TrueMadayar]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Not true. Synthetics can easily reproduce, much easier than living beings, they can just create new hardware and software.

Also, we face different AIs in the game. Some are humanlike, with a single conscience. However, Geth are entirely different, they combine cluster programming with a hivemind-like way of life, a memory enhancement in close proximity and a single platform appearance. First we see the platform, thinking Geth are individual. Then we hear they are many programs in one platform, so we consider a hivemind. But the programs on itself are not able to work well, but the more there are, the better they do. That is basically without living being comparison, it's really unique, a great idea, probably coming from the Slivers from Magic the Gathering. That alone would make it worth it for me to explore any option to preserve Geth as a species.

[bazzag]

TrueMadayar wrote...

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way.

*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

[iwillkillfortali]

bazzag wrote...

TrueMadayar wrote...

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way.

*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

There is no solid definition of life, so that is only an assumption. Also synthetics can reproduce. That is to say they can convert other materials into a modified copy of themselves. Just rather then converting food into a baby, they convert other raw materials into another synthetic. How is that not reproduction?

But Machines don't have cells.

At least now we know what the geth have been up to to scratch their bodywork...