69153 réponses à ce sujet

[forthary]

TrueMadayar wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Not true. Synthetics can easily reproduce, much easier than living beings, they can just create new hardware and software.

Also, we face different AIs in the game. Some are humanlike, with a single conscience. However, Geth are entirely different, they combine cluster programming with a hivemind-like way of life, a memory enhancement in close proximity and a single platform appearance. First we see the platform, thinking Geth are individual. Then we hear they are many programs in one platform, so we consider a hivemind. But the programs on itself are not able to work well, but the more there are, the better they do. That is basically without living being comparison, it's really unique, a great idea, probably coming from the Slivers from Magic the Gathering. That alone would make it worth it for me to explore any option to preserve Geth as a species.

I hate how the line is blurred between synthetics and organics.  Frankly, I wish the two could easily be seperable, but no, of course not.  Yet...snythetic life can be a form of intelligent life, and like organic life, deserve certain rights.

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...

TrueMadayar wrote...

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way.

*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

See, i thought the geth were evil, flashlight headed robots. But then i met legion. and through his units information, and indeed through the mission when you go into the geth consensus, you kinda feel sorry for em.

[Naltair]

Considering that cell vision and organic birth practices are pretty inefficient forms of reproduction to begin with... long maturation period, chance of still birth, genetic defects, mortality rates, and then a long term period of care giving for the newborn. Geth have it pretty good, a new Geth bypasses all these issues and is a productive member of the society at "birth".

[iwillkillfortali]

bazzag wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...

TrueMadayar wrote...

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way.

*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

See, i thought the geth were evil, flashlight headed robots. But then i met legion. and through his units information, and indeed through the mission when you go into the geth consensus, you kinda feel sorry for em.

I still don't trust them.

[iwillkillfortali]

Naltair wrote...

Considering that cell vision and organic birth practices are pretty inefficient forms of reproduction to begin with... long maturation period, chance of still birth, genetic defects, mortality rates, and then a long term period of care giving for the newborn. Geth have it pretty good, a new Geth bypasses all these issues and is a productive member of the society at "birth".

But imperfections are what makes life uniqe.

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...

TrueMadayar wrote...

That accounts for something, as well - sympathy. Most gamers are part of a minority, especially when they become fans or even otaku over a game. Nerds, dorks, geeks, as they are, have it harder than others for the most part. Or at least we experience it that way.

*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

See, i thought the geth were evil, flashlight headed robots. But then i met legion. and through his units information, and indeed through the mission when you go into the geth consensus, you kinda feel sorry for em.

I still don't trust them.

I do...still kill them over the quarians tho if i had no choice.

[Naltair]

Well they had to make the Geth more well rounded and sympathetic or the Quarian/Geth war would have been a non-choice.

Do I side with flawed organics or homicidal synthetics... hrrrm.

[Cheese of Borg]

Did I miss anything about Tali at the panal?

[Naltair]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Considering that cell vision and organic birth practices are pretty inefficient forms of reproduction to begin with... long maturation period, chance of still birth, genetic defects, mortality rates, and then a long term period of care giving for the newborn. Geth have it pretty good, a new Geth bypasses all these issues and is a productive member of the society at "birth".

But imperfections are what makes life uniqe.

Well of course, but unique is overrrated.

[Fenrisfil]

TrueMadayar wrote...

<snip>

Strangest thing, the end...in the end we face a completely fascist AI, who's opinions and views are among the worst ever uttered in a game. And not unrivaled in life. And yet, we're MADE to comply...that is weird. Then again...all weird, that was.

That is the thing that really messes with my head. I kept writing stuff about this, then deleting it because the conclusions it was giving me are really sickening me so much I can't share them. I'm sure other people have had the same thoughts though.

I really really hope Bioware make it clear in their extended cuts that Shepard does not agree in the slightest with this AI.

[TrueMadayar]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...


*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

My point exactly. The Geth made a horrid first impression on the players. Tali was not only vital, but cute from the start, and loyal to the point of self-sacrifice. You can see how that would create a dislike for synthetic life, and a liking for a certain quarian hottie.

And to answer the question as it should have been asked: Do I trust some single humans? Up to life and death decisions, yes. Do I trust humanity as a whole? Not for one nanosecond. If we're to accept synthetic intelligence, we have to accept individuality for them as well. Most people give more rights to their guitars than to their fellow people...not to mention cars (points at origin). It can't be too hard for us to accept even such a strange entity as a geth consensus as an individual.

[iwillkillfortali]

TrueMadayar wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

bazzag wrote...


*Guilty over this comment*

I suppose the question that was asked to the gamer is judging from your experiences with synthetic life over the three games, do you trust them, and your judgement over them?

Well I did not trust the Geth after Jenkins died.

My point exactly. The Geth made a horrid first impression on the players. Tali was not only vital, but cute from the start, and loyal to the point of self-sacrifice. You can see how that would create a dislike for synthetic life, and a liking for a certain quarian hottie.

And to answer the question as it should have been asked: Do I trust some single humans? Up to life and death decisions, yes. Do I trust humanity as a whole? Not for one nanosecond. If we're to accept synthetic intelligence, we have to accept individuality for them as well. Most people give more rights to their guitars than to their fellow people...not to mention cars (points at origin). It can't be too hard for us to accept even such a strange entity as a geth consensus as an individual.

And I liked Jenkis.
I DONT HAVE A PIC.

Modifié par iwillkillfortali, 06 avril 2012 - 11:09 .

[TrueMadayar]

Naltair wrote...

Considering that cell vision and organic birth practices are pretty inefficient forms of reproduction to begin with... long maturation period, chance of still birth, genetic defects, mortality rates, and then a long term period of care giving for the newborn. Geth have it pretty good, a new Geth bypasses all these issues and is a productive member of the society at "birth".

True dat. But as I have heard, in organic reproduction lies a possibility for a "fun factor". Something a synthetic intelligence would have extreme troubles to understand or relate to.

And as I said - I choose individuals. And to trust individuals. Trusting an entire people will always end in disappointment, due to diversity being a main survival method there will always be differences.

[XenoAlbedo]

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Modifié par XenoAlbedo, 06 avril 2012 - 11:11 .

[iwillkillfortali]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video.

HI XENO!!!!!

[forthary]

Naltair wrote...

Well they had to make the Geth more well rounded and sympathetic or the Quarian/Geth war would have been a non-choice.

Do I side with flawed organics or homicidal synthetics... hrrrm.

If I can preserve both without any major long-term issues, i'll take both.  It would be a waste of life to commit genocide unless that side was absolutely no good at all.  While I have never come across the reaper rachni-queen yet, so far, the game series has told me that if a character really wishes to seek peace, something will click inside your head and tell you yes.  In Mass Effect 1, you had the option of preserving or saving the Rachni Queen.  In Mass Effect 2, you had the option of sparing or killing the batarians on Omega.  In Mass Effect 3, you had the option of giving or pretending to give the genophage to the krogan, and saving the queen again if you spared her in one. 

But...if I had to choose between a organic and synthetic race, that would depend on a lot of things.  It's too close of a call for me.  But at least i'll choose the quarians over the geth any day if forced to do so.

[TiMeLeft71]

TrueMadayar wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Not true. Synthetics can easily reproduce, much easier than living beings, they can just create new hardware and software.

Also, we face different AIs in the game. Some are humanlike, with a single conscience. However, Geth are entirely different, they combine cluster programming with a hivemind-like way of life, a memory enhancement in close proximity and a single platform appearance. First we see the platform, thinking Geth are individual. Then we hear they are many programs in one platform, so we consider a hivemind. But the programs on itself are not able to work well, but the more there are, the better they do. That is basically without living being comparison, it's really unique, a great idea, probably coming from the Slivers from Magic the Gathering. That alone would make it worth it for me to explore any option to preserve Geth as a species.

This changes. With the reaper code upgrades each unit becomes a fully developed AI.

[forthary]

Cheese of Borg wrote...

Did I miss anything about Tali at the panal?

I heard they talked about her extensively, notably about her tongue and how she uses it.

Hah, just kidding.

I suppose they did talk about her in general, mostly with her personality, but they didn't reveal anything major, such as if they were going to get a house on rannoch for example.  You'd have to look 2-3+ pages back for your answers.

Modifié par forthary, 06 avril 2012 - 11:16 .

[MadCat221]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Manufacture new platform > copy runtimes > new Geth

You are artificially limiting the definition of "life".

Modifié par MadCat221, 06 avril 2012 - 11:15 .

[iwillkillfortali]

MadCat221 wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Manufacture new platform > copy runtimes > new Geth

You are artificially limiting the definition of "life".

So you are forgeting the Fun Factor.

[XenoAlbedo]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Manufacture new platform > copy runtimes > new Geth

You are artificially limiting the definition of "life".

So you are forgeting the Fun Factor.

That must really suck for the Geth.

[Fenrisfil]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

But Machines don't have cells.

Not heard of nanobots then?

To be honest though as there is no clear definition of life and we do not have any real life AI's to examine in comparison the whole thing is just down to a mater of opinion.

So if you choose not to consider AI's as life your perfectly entitled to that opinion. When we're talking about the context of a fictional universe though we have to see it through the eyes of those characters we are attached to and with that in mind I would have to ask you:

What was it that Tali said to Legion before he died?

[iwillkillfortali]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Manufacture new platform > copy runtimes > new Geth

You are artificially limiting the definition of "life".

So you are forgeting the Fun Factor.

That must really suck for the Geth.

You do know what I am Talking about.

[Nkromelow]

Back! What did I miss? Was my fanart put up at PAX?

[Fenrisfil]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.