69153 réponses à ce sujet

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

And I liked Jenkis.
I DONT HAVE A PIC.

http://t0.gstatic.co...FsnW3yG_fSN7RXM

[Fenrisfil]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

That must really suck for the Geth.

Well....technically.....

You know what, I'm not going to go there.

[XenoAlbedo]

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

[Fenrisfil]

bazzag wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

And I liked Jenkis.
I DONT HAVE A PIC.

http://t0.gstatic.co...FsnW3yG_fSN7RXM

I do hope there is a motivation with a screencap of his death and "Still better then the ME3 ending"

[bazzag]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

 living beings

Living Beings Reproduce Synthedics don't.

Manufacture new platform > copy runtimes > new Geth

You are artificially limiting the definition of "life".

So you are forgeting the Fun Factor.

That must really suck for the Geth.

You do know what I am Talking about.

Geth a: This unit feels nothing
Geth b: This unit feels a 3.215% softening of its chassis, caused from major bump trauma...

[iwillkillfortali]

bazzag wrote...

iwillkillfortali wrote...

And I liked Jenkis.
I DONT HAVE A PIC.

http://t0.gstatic.co...FsnW3yG_fSN7RXM

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!

[XenoAlbedo]

Have an adorable Tali.

[Reorte]

TrueMadayar wrote...

True dat. But as I have heard, in organic reproduction lies a possibility for a "fun factor". Something a synthetic intelligence would have extreme troubles to understand or relate to.

Humans have managed to separate the two often enough. Seriously though that's a built-in instinct (because otherwise we'd have gone extinct before we worked out what sex was actually for). Something created with the ability to reproduce and the knowledge of their existence wouldn't need that drive because they'd know they needed to reproduce anyway. Again, something that humans have managed to do when they want children but the normal way doesn't work.

It raises interesting questions about AI motivation though. If they have none beside pure logic (and self-preservation) they'd simply secure their existence then sit down and do nothing. What motivates the geth (and EDI)?

[TrueMadayar]

TiMeLeft71 wrote...

This changes. With the reaper code upgrades each unit becomes a fully developed AI.

We were discussing where Tali's deep seated prejudices as well as many of the players prejudices towards the Geth come from, and I wanted to make the point that the Geth were basically incomparable to any organic life we know, lest we can talk to.

When every unit becomes a full individual, the border between organic and synthetic life is blurred even more. Now we can fully relate, they have become kinda like EDI.

But even before, destroying all synthetic intelligence, which includes the Geth, is genocide. And to that nobody has a right. Individual flaws may not be answered with a general verdict. Never.

[TrueMadayar]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Have an adorable Tali.

*hums* You can get it if you really want...

[MadCat221]

Reorte wrote...

TrueMadayar wrote...

True dat. But as I have heard, in organic reproduction lies a possibility for a "fun factor". Something a synthetic intelligence would have extreme troubles to understand or relate to.

Humans have managed to separate the two often enough. Seriously though that's a built-in instinct (because otherwise we'd have gone extinct before we worked out what sex was actually for). Something created with the ability to reproduce and the knowledge of their existence wouldn't need that drive because they'd know they needed to reproduce anyway. Again, something that humans have managed to do when they want children but the normal way doesn't work.

It raises interesting questions about AI motivation though. If they have none beside pure logic (and self-preservation) they'd simply secure their existence then sit down and do nothing. What motivates the geth (and EDI)?

Remember the ruined Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch?  "It is not a thing you would understand".

I think that applies just as much to the Reapers as much as to organics.  The Reapers, especially Catalyst, don't understand anything other than logic it seems.

However, watch Legion's growth as a character from the first time you meet him, to his end in ME3.  He starts exhibiting emotion.  Even anger if you side with the Quarians.  On a purely logical standpoint, it would make sense that Shep would side with a fellow organic, and Legion should just go straight to murder death kill mode.  But instead he starts getting indignant, saying that it's unjust.

EDI develops along this line as well; if you do it all right, at the Goodbye Stage in the final levels, she states that she actually feels "alive".

EDI and the Geth potentially surpass the mental potential of the Reapers because of it.  They have an actual understanding of the organics that created them.

In my HeadCanon, I use that reasoning to hold out to the hope that EDI and the Geth withstand the Red Space Magic.  Especially since (IIRC) Catalyst says that Shep would die too because of the extensive cybernetics making Shep partly synthetic would mean the Red Space Magic would kill him too... but Shep can potentially survive; partly due to all the war assets that went into constructing the Crucible, and from all the war assets that acted as meat shielding against the Reapers attacking it before activation.

Modifié par MadCat221, 06 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[TrueMadayar]

Reorte wrote...

Humans have managed to separate the two often enough. Seriously though that's a built-in instinct (because otherwise we'd have gone extinct before we worked out what sex was actually for). Something created with the ability to reproduce and the knowledge of their existence wouldn't need that drive because they'd know they needed to reproduce anyway. Again, something that humans have managed to do when they want children but the normal way doesn't work.

It raises interesting questions about AI motivation though. If they have none beside pure logic (and self-preservation) they'd simply secure their existence then sit down and do nothing. What motivates the geth (and EDI)?

"Why so much trouble over a larva", does the Great Migrator ask Yoko Tsuno in "The Titans" (a comic book in Europe, look up Roger Leloup, he draws as good as darthrevaninlight does). "Your queens lay thousands of eggs. Our women may have one or two kids. Every one is valuable to us."

The fact that the act and especially the creation afterwards is a hard strain on body and mind makes us connect with the kid much stronger. We already went through a lot, good and bad, before we can even hold it. We don't have many kids, the emotional attachment to them is evolutionarily vital to us. Geth can create millions within short time. Thus the loss of single units becomes far less important. Once they achieve the individuality of single units, they will have started to differ, as we do, and thus every loss is one for the whole society. If they hadn't achieved it, the loss of Legion would've been an evolutionary setback of extreme proportions - he had already achieved the individuality, he was basically invaluable.

[EDIT] Have a chibi! Also one of the favourite baby quarian pastimes.

Modifié par TrueMadayar, 06 avril 2012 - 11:39 .

[Fenrisfil]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

Awesome! Ta. Love GMod videos (ever since I stumbled on Idiotbox). If only I wasn't so damn lazy.... Anyway, bonus kudos for the use of the Duke Nukem theme in the second one

Only question is, just how did Tali manage to vomit so much?

[Cheese of Borg]

TrueMadayar wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Considering that cell vision and organic birth practices are pretty inefficient forms of reproduction to begin with... long maturation period, chance of still birth, genetic defects, mortality rates, and then a long term period of care giving for the newborn. Geth have it pretty good, a new Geth bypasses all these issues and is a productive member of the society at "birth".

True dat. But as I have heard, in organic reproduction lies a possibility for a "fun factor". Something a synthetic intelligence would have extreme troubles to understand or relate to.

And as I said - I choose individuals. And to trust individuals. Trusting an entire people will always end in disappointment, due to diversity being a main survival method there will always be differences.

I always imagine Tali looking forward to sex with the comander more than a normal women, she IS traped in that suit most of the time.

[Reorte]

MadCat221 wrote...

Remember the ruined Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch?  "It is not a thing you would understand".

I think that applies just as much to the Reapers as much as to organics.  The Reapers, especially Catalyst, don't understand anything other than logic it seems.

However, watch Legion's growth as a character from the first time you meet him, to his end in ME3.  He starts exhibiting emotion.  Even anger if you side with the Quarians.  On a purely logical standpoint, it would make sense that Shep would side with a fellow organic, and Legion should just go straight to murder death kill mode.  But instead he starts getting indignant, saying that it's unjust.

EDI develops along this line as well; if you do it all right, at the Goodbye Stage in the final levels, she states that she actually feels "alive".

EDI and the Geth potentially surpass the mental potential of the Reapers because of it.  They have an actual understanding of the organics that created them.

I'm interested in trying to know how that could arise in something that starts off as entirely logical; certainly the geth weren't ever created to be more than that (EDI is rather more debatable). Motivation (beyond survival needs) requires emotion after all. Is that an inevitable consequence of anything complex enough to be self-aware and intelligent? In some ways it harkens back to Mordin's speech about art (although that's become a dirty word when associated with Mass Effect!) even though he was talking about the Collectors and not synthetics of any sort.

The Reapers exhibit more than pure logic; I can't imagine that an entirely logical creature would be so arrogantly full of itself.

In my HeadCanon, I use that reasoning to hold out to the hope that EDI and the Geth withstand the Red Space Magic.  Especially since (IIRC) Catalyst says that Shep would die too because of the extensive cybernetics making Shep partly synthetic would mean the Red Space Magic would kill him too... but Shep can potentially survive; partly due to all the war assets that went into constructing the Crucible, and from all the war assets that acted as meat shielding against the Reapers attacking it before activation.

Ditto, and we all know how full of nonsense the Reapers are anyway.

[bazzag]

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

Awesome! Ta. Love GMod videos (ever since I stumbled on Idiotbox). If only I wasn't so damn lazy.... Anyway, bonus kudos for the use of the Duke Nukem theme in the second one

Only question is, just how did Tali manage to vomit so much?

Yeah, just watched  em myself.

Wrex saved the day! YAAAAAAAAAY!

[TiMeLeft71]

TrueMadayar wrote...

We were discussing where Tali's deep seated prejudices as well as many of the players prejudices towards the Geth come from, and I wanted to make the point that the Geth were basically incomparable to any organic life we know, lest we can talk to.

When every unit becomes a full individual, the border between organic and synthetic life is blurred even more. Now we can fully relate, they have become kinda like EDI.

But even before, destroying all synthetic intelligence, which includes the Geth, is genocide. And to that nobody has a right. Individual flaws may not be answered with a general verdict. Never.

Agreed. but think of EDI's Identity crisis on a large scale. instead of a single AI trying to find where she fits in with organics, it's a whole race trying to fit into the galactic community. Do they get a say in galactic affairs? How do they respond to the huge backlash for trying to integrate themselves with organics?

As you can see this causes huge problems but I say they are alive

[iwillkillfortali]

bazzag wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

Awesome! Ta. Love GMod videos (ever since I stumbled on Idiotbox). If only I wasn't so damn lazy.... Anyway, bonus kudos for the use of the Duke Nukem theme in the second one

Only question is, just how did Tali manage to vomit so much?

Yeah, just watched  em myself.

Wrex saved the day! YAAAAAAAAAY!

Yay WRex

[Fenrisfil]

Anyway, other things mentioned at PAX that are remotely interesting. They hinted at survivors on board the citadel and didn't rule out additional game play in the extended ending DLC (they said "currently planning on extended cinematics but cannot currently comment otherwise. Keep giving us your feedback"). So perhaps induction ports to clutch to there.

[Fenrisfil]

bazzag wrote...

Yeah, just watched  em myself.

Wrex saved the day! YAAAAAAAAAY!

That first video said it needed a title. As soon as I saw that bit, I thought it really should have been "I AM KROGAN!"

[forthary]

Fenrisfil wrote...

Anyway, other things mentioned at PAX that are remotely interesting. They hinted at survivors on board the citadel and didn't rule out additional game play in the extended ending DLC (they said "currently planning on extended cinematics but cannot currently comment otherwise. Keep giving us your feedback"). So perhaps induction ports to clutch to there.

I wouldn't expect a epic boss battle like in ME2, but I had a hunch that if they are basing content off of the indoctrination theory, there would still be some combat.

[bazzag]

forthary wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

Anyway, other things mentioned at PAX that are remotely interesting. They hinted at survivors on board the citadel and didn't rule out additional game play in the extended ending DLC (they said "currently planning on extended cinematics but cannot currently comment otherwise. Keep giving us your feedback"). So perhaps induction ports to clutch to there.

I wouldn't expect a epic boss battle like in ME2, but I had a hunch that if they are basing content off of the indoctrination theory, there would still be some combat.

The human reaper wasn't that epic...it could be killed with two shots from the cain (thats what i do)

As for the ending dlc, i'm not that fussed. As long as they explain plotholes, give shepard true closure and give tali her house, i'll be satisfied

[XenoAlbedo]

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

Awesome! Ta. Love GMod videos (ever since I stumbled on Idiotbox). If only I wasn't so damn lazy.... Anyway, bonus kudos for the use of the Duke Nukem theme in the second one

Only question is, just how did Tali manage to vomit so much?

Levo alcohol. I'm assuming Quarian stomachs don't like it.

[iwillkillfortali]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Back. Just finished my newest Gmod video. No Tali in this video though I'm afraid, unlike my last two.

Hold on... I missed something. You've made Gmod video's with Tali in?

NEED....LINK.

Here and here. A few scenes got messed up in both videos during rendering unfortunately.

Awesome! Ta. Love GMod videos (ever since I stumbled on Idiotbox). If only I wasn't so damn lazy.... Anyway, bonus kudos for the use of the Duke Nukem theme in the second one

Only question is, just how did Tali manage to vomit so much?

Levo alcohol. I'm assuming Quarian stomachs don't like it.

At least she did not die:P

[Reorte]

bazzag wrote...

As for the ending dlc, i'm not that fussed. As long as they explain plotholes, give shepard true closure and give tali her house, i'll be satisfied

It has to be with Shepard otherwise that's depressed Tali. It's rather beyond me how "expansion and clarification" instead of "complete change" could achieve that, which is why I'm not optimistic about it.