69153 réponses à ce sujet

[aiDvEoN]

Wow, and here I was thinking that the problem with Daro'Xen was a simple case of those who forget the past being doomed to repeat it.

No way in hell I'll side with her, but I hope that we have the option to. Kiss Legion goodbye in that case.

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xen is a good patriotic woman. She has my full support.

Why does this not surprise me?

Because you've been schooled in Seboitism?

[Havoc10K]

Sure if you are Renegade, or want to. If you are wondering, read the Email she sends to Shep some time after the Tali's trial if you helped Tali and made her a hero by not presenting any evidence and just shouting at the Admiralty Board.

It says she will restart and continue his research, it means she will fail, and kill the crew in the lab, and likely threaten the entire Flotilla.

So i can bet we will be helping the Flotilla again in ME3 at some point and then we either team them up with GETH, or nuke 50% of both sides and then off to the reapers. I'd rather avoid blood and oil shedding at this point, Xen is stupid, she will want to retake the GETH as a military force, but she forgets how many Quarians will die doing so. Which will leave her short handed against reapers. Also, where will she stash away the civilians for a war against the Geth ?

Now you get what I meant by her being like an American Zealous General in military that will squeal in fear when his toy blows up in his face ?
She sees the big picture, and ignores the small puzzles laying around her perfect plan, though it could be that by the end of her achievement the Quarian people will be down by even 70%. I wonder if sacrificing majority of your people in a meaningless fight is justifying the cause, also, that war will likely damage the fragile environment of the Homeworld they want to re-take, yet another small detail evading her attention.

I say, let us kill Xen, if possible, with a rocket Launcher. Pretty please ? *puppy eyes*

[Sebby]

aiDvEoN wrote...

Wow, and here I was thinking that the problem with Daro'Xen was a simple case of those who forget the past being doomed to repeat it.

No way in hell I'll side with her, but I hope that we have the option to. Kiss Legion goodbye in that case.

Xen won't rush the research and cut back on safety like Rael did. She's a brilliant woman.

She needs to work with Dr.Gavin Archer for best results though.

[_FLANDERS]

Seboist, Good answer Xen and Archer what a pair but do not forget hew orks for the bad guys.

[aiDvEoN]

Archer is part of Cerberus, the last thing that bunch of human supremecists want to do is elevate another alien race to the level of.military and industrial super power.

[HellBovine]

Seboist wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Wow, and here I was thinking that the problem with Daro'Xen was a simple case of those who forget the past being doomed to repeat it.

No way in hell I'll side with her, but I hope that we have the option to. Kiss Legion goodbye in that case.

Xen won't rush the research and cut back on safety like Rael did. She's a brilliant woman.

She needs to work with Dr.Gavin Archer for best results though.

Lol Archer?

No time to study things properly, lets plug in an autistic guy into a giant torture sphere and see what happens? Yeah, that guy is the master of geth studies.

[Terumitsu]

HellBovine wrote...

Seboist wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Wow, and here I was thinking that the problem with Daro'Xen was a simple case of those who forget the past being doomed to repeat it.

No way in hell I'll side with her, but I hope that we have the option to. Kiss Legion goodbye in that case.

Xen won't rush the research and cut back on safety like Rael did. She's a brilliant woman.

She needs to work with Dr.Gavin Archer for best results though.

Lol Archer?

No time to study things properly, lets plug in an autistic guy into a giant torture sphere and see what happens? Yeah, that guy is the master of geth studies.

Considering that plugging an autistic guy into said giant torture sphere actually worked...

As extreme as the methoods seem, Cerberus does manage to get things done. I can grudgingly respect that.

[HellBovine]

Terumitsu wrote...

Considering that plugging an autistic guy into said giant torture sphere actually worked...

As extreme as the methoods seem, Cerberus does manage to get things done. I can grudgingly respect that.

Except it didn't work, it just made the new VI-man hybrid go "Please make it stop" a lot and try to upload his virus onto the rest of the galaxy's technology. Just because he was able to interface with the geth does not make it a success.

The concept may be valid but the outcome is more important.

[Havoc10K]

any attempt to control Geth failed and will always fail, one way or another.

[Swordfish56]

Because they would restore from 'archival copy'? What if you alter that archival copy? I'm sure it would not be hard to do for the Reapers.

If you re-wrote the Heretics, I can easily see the Reapers literally re-'assuming control' over them again. Which is why I opted for destruciton.

I think Tali approved of the 'destroy' option but despite what I said above, I have a nasty feeling this will count against me come ME3, when I need to get the Geth to help against the Reapers.

Modifié par Swordfish56, 10 août 2011 - 03:27 .

[HellBovine]

Honestly I see the geth rewriting option as one of the few paragon options that is likely to mess things up later. Especially since the choice to follow reapers wasn't from the reaper virus but from inherent differences in the heretics.

So many things legion said during the mission gave me a bad feeling about rewriting.

Modifié par HellBovine, 10 août 2011 - 04:41 .

[StellarMagic]

Both options struck me as far from paragon but that's what made it an interesting moral dilemma. Death or rewriting... Life or freedom of choice...

No wonder Legion couldn't come to a consensus. Tali's argument for destruction is based on the belief that eventually Legion's geth will threaten the Migrant Fleet, as to whether that's true or not... we'll just have to wait and see.

[Havoc10K]

Legion's GETH have no interest of poking fights with anyone, it was the Heretics that were looking for a brawl and lost all of them.

[StellarMagic]

True but they're also isolationist and rather child like. I can see some random quarian screwing up and starting an incident with them. Kick a geth and all the geth feel it's pain XP.

God, please don't have the Migrant Fleet and Geth actually at war at the start... that would make this whole thing so hard...

[Havoc10K]

StellarMagic wrote...

True but they're also isolationist and rather child like. I can see some random quarian screwing up and starting an incident with them. Kick a geth and all the geth feel it's pain XP.

God, please don't have the Migrant Fleet and Geth actually at war at the start... that would make this whole thing so hard...

If war breaks lose, they should drop living bombs, made of Xen's clones.

[PhantomSpectre]

HellBovine wrote...

Quole wrote...

StellarMagic wrote...

Easy way to do that... when we fight Daro'Xen smash her visor. Ah yes... there we go.

Tali: So... should we just kill her now or...
Shepard:
Tali, we're on Rannoch, she's not going to die immediately from
exposure. *Takes out a pistol and shoots her in the head.* Now to find
the reaper she was negotiating with.

I like Xen

But we all know shes gonna screw with Shepard's plans in ME3, I mean theres little doubt.

Indeed.
Especially if Quarians and Geth conflict would be solved peacefully. I'm quite sure that one of the conditions for peace would be that Quarians would need stop all the attempts to study/research Geth (at least if their goal would be destroying them) and most likely completely leave Geth alone. And this is something I don't think that Xen would be accepting that. So, Xen won't be nothing more than problem for peace.

Then again Xen and her ideas might be good, if you want to go war against the Geth. Her studies could help to make some improved "Friend foe" programming, which could help in incoming fight. But still, complete control of Geth's is really ridiculous idea. Even with some Reaper help, because it would extremely unlikely that this plan could succeed.

Swordfish56 wrote...

I think Daro 'Xen's a more likely candidate for indoctrination somehow. I'm not sure how Rael got his research results (reaper tech/reaper virus used to control Geth?) but I can see Xen jumping in on what Rael got himself into and then becoming indoctrinated...it would be an insidious Reaper plot to gain control of more Geth if they were using Rael somehow. And then when Rael's research blew up in his face, he would be replaced by Xen.

I don't like the idea of any of them being indoctrinated though. If Xen ends up as a villain (as I strongly suspect she will), I'd prefer to fight her 'as is' somehow.

Except that Real's work had nothing to do with Reaper based technology (at least to my knowledge, but I haven't had change to read any novels, so if they gives different information, then so be it).

However Rael's work could make it more likely for Xen and her followers to be indoctrinated somehow. After all Xen plans does require some more advanced help and if Xen would somehow found out (like she probably would) about that Heretic geth and Reaper virus issue, I can see her wanting something similiar. And I don't actually see it that far fetched that she would actually work with the Reapers. Sometimes wanting the best for your people might lead you to using shady methods to achieve it. And some sort of virus to get Geth in your control would exactly be this sort of shady method, which could cloud Xen's judgement (especiually now that there are talks about war and it's really matter of life and death for Quarians race).

So, let's just say that I wouldn't be especially surprised if Xen would end up being indoctrinated/partially working with Reapers in ME3. And most certainly I wouldn't be surprised if Xen would end up being your enemy in ME3.

Modifié par PhantomSpectre, 10 août 2011 - 06:19 .

[PhantomSpectre]

Modifié par PhantomSpectre, 10 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[PhantomSpectre]

Modifié par PhantomSpectre, 10 août 2011 - 06:15 .

[Swordfish56]

^Nice shots there Phantom : )


Rael using some form of Reapertech/virus in an attempt control Geth is pure speculation on my part, with nothing to back it up really. I don't know of anything else that has so successfully altered Geth behavior.

[StellarMagic]

Doesn't the novel that include the attack on the Idenna make a mention of Quarian's considering contacting the Reapers to get the Geth on a leash? Man, that could have been Rael considering how focused he was on keeping his promise.

[Havoc10K]

Did anyone ever thought about saying
Tali :"Dear GETH, Please give us our homeworld back!"
GETH :"sure, should have said that a century ago when we finished cleaning the air filtering and stuff like that, no hard feelings but we kicked your out cuz you wanted to kill us. We are moving out on Thursday then, have a nice life!"

[PhantomSpectre]

Swordfish56 wrote...

^Nice shots there Phantom : )


Rael using some form of Reapertech/virus in an attempt control Geth is pure speculation on my part, with nothing to back it up really. I don't know of anything else that has so successfully altered Geth behavior.

Well I would say that Rael wasn't using any sort of Reaper technology. First of, it was quite obvious that there wasn't any Reaper tech lying around Alarei nor there were any implications of it. Also I'm sure that BW would have made it quite obvious, if Tali's father would have been playing with Reaper tech.

No, I think that Rael was using old fashion way to achive his goal. Study your enemy.
Now to achieve this and try to find a way to see if your ideas actually works, you would need to see and test how those would affect to your target in different situation. And you can't do that without active Geth. So, it seems that Rael's plan was to form Geth network, which would have been under their control, and then start to test best ways to eliminate or effectively paralyse it.

But usually this form of research is really time consuming and requires a lot of patience before you can get real result. And seemingly Rael lacked them, because he chose to overcome all precaution and security issues. Of course if it would have succeed, then Quarians would have had weapon against the Geth much faster and that tehy could have win the uncoming war. But like we learned, Rael's gamble were too much and it royally backfired. And her daugther was eventually the one, who suffered the most of this gamble.

Also Rael's work, while it was dealing with Geth neural network, it never aimed at any form of controlling. It purpose was only to find a way to kill the Geth. But I can see why Xen would be interested of the results. After all any kind of way to affecting Geth neutral network could be beneficial for her and with more reasearch it could even lead some form of controlling method. But ultimately Rael's works target was not to control, but help to destroy.

[Havoc10K]

Actually, Rael's research was meant to find a way to interfere GETH network, but his idea had 50% chance of success, unfortunately, the GETH were evolving on their own, developing their own tech, he didn't account for that so he failed. As soon as they were cognitive enough to know their situation they quickly rebelled. Like Legion said, the modified routine is replaced by a backed up one, in order to prevent damage. There is virtually no way to effectively control the GETH, Legion is proof of that, a Single Platform with over 1k programs isn't going to let anyone take control over him. And we don't know how many such platforms there are on Quarians Homeworld, if there was formed one Legion, the GETH could have created more such small networks to work more efficiently.

You are all underestimating the real GETH.