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[L. Han]

All was thought Keelah se'lai is something similar to "keep us alive".

Tali explains that on Rannoch so I have dismissed my claim.

[Ryuji2]

Found it. <--Memorial wall talk.

Modifié par Ryuji2, 19 avril 2012 - 03:28 .

[N7Kopper]

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

forthary wrote...

Cheese of Borg wrote...
I thought it was great.  Stroking the side of her helmet as he said it.:innocent:

While I thought the romance night could have used more 'action', especially given the type of music used, I thought the dialog was great.  In particular, I think Shepard's line of, "Will you stay here with me?  Until the call comes?" was one of the best lines Tali said for her.  

I think it's more powerful than, "I love you." in a sense because it shows that Shepard wants her.  Some may say even need her.  But more than that, it shows that Shepard wants Tali in his heart and wants her to be there with him.  Sometimes it's tear jerking, I won't lie.  But, it doesn't send shivers down me when Tali says, "I want...more...time."

I thought those were some powerful lines as well. I really enjoyed the final speech and the talk at the memorial wall. When shepherd wasn't sure about himself tali gave him the strength to keep on. That's real love. Great stuff.

...what talk at memorial wall?

Possibly related to engineering bug, and/or not having Javik?
Because on my first playthrough with the bug, I got the talk.
Subsequent Shields Ending playthroughs with the bug fixed, I get something different where Tali urges me to comfort Liara.
...which is cool too, I unlocked Stasis as a bonus power... but prefer Energy Drain.

[Himmelstor]

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

[Exiledone1]

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

Hmmmmm....odd. Yeah I don't believe it was even a cutscenes. Just her character standing there with dialog between us. I don't remember her mentioning Liara, but she may have. Its been a while. Just remember her telling me some words of support. 

Modifié par Exiledone1, 19 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[N7Kopper]

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

Read the description of the video Ryuji posted.
You need to talk to Tali before you go to Javik's room.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

As far as I know, you talk to Tali (while she's standing at the memorial wall talking to Garrus over the radio), then talk to Liara, then talk to Tali again.  Twice in a row.  This is immediately after Thessia.

[exelsis]

Missing engineering talk because of stupid nuclear ash bug. Dispensing hugs.

[Exiledone1]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

As far as I know, you talk to Tali (while she's standing at the memorial wall talking to Garrus over the radio), then talk to Liara, then talk to Tali again.  Twice in a row.  This is immediately after Thessia.

Yeah something like that lol. I don't remember talking to her twice myself, but it's been a while so I'm sure that is what happened lol

[electrosphere11]

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

She does say he's the man she loves, at least.

[Exiledone1]

electrosphere11 wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

She does say he's the man she loves, at least.

Exactly ! I can't wait for my second play through of me3. This time I'll have all my characters survive from 2 and no tali as an exile from 2

Modifié par Exiledone1, 19 avril 2012 - 03:36 .

[forthary]

electrosphere11 wrote...

She does say he's the man she loves, at least.

I won't forget that, no matter what happens.

Modifié par forthary, 19 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[Dilandau3000]

4stringwizard wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Im kind of annoyed me how shepard never says "I love you too" to Tali ever.

He was just saving it up for the end, after he defeated the Reapers!

This made me think about the dream sequences for some reason.

Long before I ever reached the ending, the kid from Vancouver bothered me. Heck, even when I first played the demo, I felt they were manipulating me into feeling sad for him, which to me had the opposite effect. Then he shows up in the dream sequences, and it still feels manipulative. I know what they were trying to do; the kid was supposed to be symbolic of the people Shepard can't save. But here's the problem: I don't care about the kid. We don't know him, he has no personality, and I see no reason why Shepard would agonize over him specifically when there's so many more significant deaths that have occurred. I liked when they added the voices of Kaidan/Ashley, Mordin and Legion to the dream, because those are deaths I actually cared about.

Here's what I feel they should've done. Want Shepard to agonize over not being able to save anyone? Then have him dream about the death of his/her LI! Shepard having nightmares of Tali dying would have been incredibly powerful and heart-wrenching. Especially because some of them would happen before Tali's introduction, making it feel like Shepard is worrying about her because let's face it, reapers are invading the galaxy and Shepard has no idea where she is or if she's alright. Then after meeting with her, the dreams could change, incorporating details of her current situation. Imagine a "Tali suicide on Rannoch"-like scene as a nightmare after completing the Rannoch mission, even if you managed peace.

Then imagine the catalyst using the form of the LI to try to manipulate Shepard. Imagine what it would be like if it was Tali's shape and (distorted) voice giving you those choices. Imagine how they could personalize the dialog for the different LIs (Catalyst!Tali's dialog for the destroy option with the sacrifice of the geth would be interesting). It would help the player get a more personal interest in the choice presented, something which was sorely lacking in the current ending. Even though it doesn't necessarily fix the other problems, imagine the possibilities this choice would've opened to make this scene more interesting. It would also be a perfect way for Shepard to challenge the catalyst (e.g. "you look like Tali, but you know nothing about her, about us; she would never..." etc.)

Done properly, it would make the idea of a non-happy "Shepard sacrifices himself" choice (like in control and synthesis) much more palatable, as it would be much easier to convey that Shepard is sacrificing himself for the sake of her happiness (goes for destroy too, actually, as Shep doesn't know he can survive that).

They could still use the kid for Shepards without an LI, if they really wanted.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 19 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[Olueq]

electrosphere11 wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

There is a part on the crew deck level where tali is standing there looking at the memorial wall, as I call it. They have a little dialog and while simple I found it very effective. They were just talking about people lost and shepherd seems so sad and tali was there and just gave him much needed words of encouragement.

Only dialogue had was about Liara.
Can't get any of Tali dialogue to trigger...

She does say he's the man she loves, at least.

when?

[Dilandau3000]

Himmelstor wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Im kind of annoyed me how shepard never says "I love you too" to Tali ever.

That doesn't annoy me. Like I said, there's an unspoken connection. I took Shepard's "Keelah Se'lai" in a similar way as Han Solo's "I know". It didn't need to be said, everyone knows he loves her.

Keelah Se'lai means more to quarian. Isn't really "I know."
Is more like "With everything I've got, I love you too."

I didn't mean it was literally the same as "I know". I just meant the intent was similar: saying it without saying it.

[forthary]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

They could still use the kid for Shepard's without an LI, if they really wanted.

Thoughts?

The reapers do not comprehend the meaning of love.  Or if they do, it is meaningless to them.

Though I will agree I do feel that the reapers aren't really attacking Shepard as much as they could.  Bringing his love interest in the whole thing would really change things on the table, not just for Talimancers, but for EVERYONE.

[Himmelstor]

electrosphere11 wrote...

She does say he's the man she loves, at least.

Good note to leave on. Tests done running.

Advertisement: Act IV: Endgame Parts One, Two, and Three.

Hold the Line. Dream of Tali.
Keelah Se'lai.

Good night, and good music.

[exelsis]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Im kind of annoyed me how shepard never says "I love you too" to Tali ever.

He was just saving it up for the end, after he defeated the Reapers!

This made me think about the dream sequences for some reason.

Long before I ever reached the ending, the kid from Vancouver bothered me. Heck, even when I first played the demo, I felt they were manipulating me into feeling sad for him, which to me had the opposite effect. Then he shows up in the dream sequences, and it still feels manipulative. I know what they were trying to do; the kid was supposed to be symbolic of the people Shepard can't save. But here's the problem: I don't care about the kid. We don't know him, he has no personality, and I see no reason why Shepard would agonize over him specifically when there's so many more significant deaths that have occurred. I liked when they added the voices of Kaidan/Ashley, Mordin and Legion to the dream, because those are deaths I actually cared about.

Here's what I feel they should've done. Want Shepard to agonize over not being able to save anyone? Then have him dream about the death of his/her LI! Shepard having nightmares of Tali dying would have been incredibly powerful and heart-wrenching. Especially because some of them would happen before Tali's introduction, making it feel like Shepard is worrying about her because let's face it, reapers are invading the galaxy and Shepard has no idea where she is or if she's alright. Then after meeting with her, the dreams could change, incorporating details of her current situation. Imagine a "Tali suicide on Rannoch"-like scene as a nightmare after completing the Rannoch mission, even if you managed peace.

Then imagine the catalyst using the form of the LI to try to manipulate Shepard. Imagine what it would be like if it was Tali's shape and (distorted) voice giving you those choices. Imagine how they could personalize the dialog for the different LIs (Catalyst!Tali's dialog for the destroy option with the sacrifice of the geth would be interesting). It would help the player get a more personal interest in the choice presented, something which was sorely lacking in the current ending. Even though it doesn't necessarily fix the other problems, imagine the possibilities this choice would've opened to make this scene more interesting. It would also be a perfect way for Shepard to challenge the catalyst (e.g. "you look like Tali, but you know nothing about her, about us; she would never..." etc.)

Done properly, it would make the idea of a non-happy "Shepard sacrifices himself" choice (like in control and synthesis) much more palatable, as it would be much easier to convey that Shepard is sacrificing himself for the sake of her happiness (goes for destroy too, actually, as Shep doesn't know he can survive that).

They could still use the kid for Shepards without an LI, if they really wanted.

Thoughts?

My thoughts: you are better at this than bioware. Your idea is better than the ME3 ending. I wish that they had been half as creative as you.

[Ryuji2]

Apparently no one saw my comment or something.

Here's the video of Shepard and Tali talking at the memorial wall.

[Exiledone1]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Im kind of annoyed me how shepard never says "I love you too" to Tali ever.

He was just saving it up for the end, after he defeated the Reapers!

This made me think about the dream sequences for some reason.

Long before I ever reached the ending, the kid from Vancouver bothered me. Heck, even when I first played the demo, I felt they were manipulating me into feeling sad for him, which to me had the opposite effect. Then he shows up in the dream sequences, and it still feels manipulative. I know what they were trying to do; the kid was supposed to be symbolic of the people Shepard can't save. But here's the problem: I don't care about the kid. We don't know him, he has no personality, and I see no reason why Shepard would agonize over him specifically when there's so many more significant deaths that have occurred. I liked when they added the voices of Kaidan/Ashley, Mordin and Legion to the dream, because those are deaths I actually cared about.

Here's what I feel they should've done. Want Shepard to agonize over not being able to save anyone? Then have him dream about the death of his/her LI! Shepard having nightmares of Tali dying would have been incredibly powerful and heart-wrenching. Especially because some of them would happen before Tali's introduction, making it feel like Shepard is worrying about her because let's face it, reapers are invading the galaxy and Shepard has no idea where she is or if she's alright. Then after meeting with her, the dreams could change, incorporating details of her current situation. Imagine a "Tali suicide on Rannoch"-like scene as a nightmare after completing the Rannoch mission, even if you managed peace.

Then imagine the catalyst using the form of the LI to try to manipulate Shepard. Imagine what it would be like if it was Tali's shape and (distorted) voice giving you those choices. Imagine how they could personalize the dialog for the different LIs (Catalyst!Tali's dialog for the destroy option with the sacrifice of the geth would be interesting). It would help the player get a more personal interest in the choice presented, something which was sorely lacking in the current ending. Even though it doesn't necessarily fix the other problems, imagine the possibilities this choice would've opened to make this scene more interesting. It would also be a perfect way for Shepard to challenge the catalyst (e.g. "you look like Tali, but you know nothing about her, about us; she would never..." etc.)

Done properly, it would make the idea of a non-happy "Shepard sacrifices himself" choice (like in control and synthesis) much more palatable, as it would be much easier to convey that Shepard is sacrificing himself for the sake of her happiness (goes for destroy too, actually, as Shep doesn't know he can survive that).

They could still use the kid for Shepards without an LI, if they really wanted.

Thoughts?

I love this idea and also agree with you. From the first moment I played ME3 I noticed how they were using the kid and while I understood I felt no emotional charge behind it. I mean, yeah it's sad the kid died and Shepherd couldn't save him and if it was just that one time we saw the kid, maybe. But Shepherd has seen a lot of death and it just didn't make me feel anything.

Now if they used the LI as you mentioned, Instant Connection. I mean, I'm married and one of the biggest fears in the world to me is losing my wife and I can't stop it. My wife was almost raped once a long time ago and I fel so much hate, angry, sadness, and other emotions that I wasn't there. I had thoughts running of what would happen if I couldn't stop it and so on.

The lack of sleep and everything else going on with shepherd would have made more sense if your opinion was used. Great stuff Dilandau3000. I wish my thoughts were more fluid, but getting tired.

[N7Kopper]

Ryuji2 wrote...

Apparently no one saw my comment or something.

Here's the video of Shepard and Tali talking at the memorial wall.

I'm nobody? I'm hurt.

...I'm not really that hurt, you might not have noticed is all.

[forthary]

Ryuji2 wrote...

Apparently no one saw my comment or something.

Here's the video of Shepard and Tali talking at the memorial wall.

Either that, or nobody cared to comment.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, thanks.  I don't remember seeing that scene in the slightest, so it made my night better.

[AVPen]

Olueq wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Im kind of annoyed me how shepard never says "I love you too" to Tali ever.

Ughhhh.... seriously, am I the only one who gets the friggin' symbolism between Shepard's and Tali's "I love you/Keelah se'lai" exchange on Rannoch or when they repeat it back to each other on Earth and what they're really saying to each other? <_<


In other news, I'm back in the Tali thread.

Oh give me a break. Did shepard have to say it then? No But saying it at SOME point in the game would have been nice.

Ummm.... He does. 

(unless you honestly believe that he's just merely repeating her past words like he's a damn parrot....)

Modifié par AVPen, 19 avril 2012 - 03:50 .

[Exiledone1]

forthary wrote...

Ryuji2 wrote...

Apparently no one saw my comment or something.

Here's the video of Shepard and Tali talking at the memorial wall.

Either that, or nobody cared to comment.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, thanks.  I don't remember seeing that scene in the slightest, so it made my night better.

Thanks for posting the vid as Im sure it clarified for many.

[Ryuji2]

Well I just wanted to make sure people saw it is all I meant.