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[T.Attwood]

PhantomSpectre wrote...

Also Rael's work, while it was dealing with Geth neural network, it never aimed at any form of controlling. It purpose was only to find a way to kill the Geth. But I can see why Xen would be interested of the results. After all any kind of way to affecting Geth neutral network could be beneficial for her and with more reasearch it could even lead some form of controlling method. But ultimately Rael's works target was not to control, but help to destroy.

This made me realise that if Xen managed to find a way to control the Geth, they would effectively return to being the workers for the Quarians that they were originally built for. I guess things could get back to normal. However, I think Xen is displaying certain megalomaniac characteristics. If she (alone) found a way to control the Geth, she would effectively be the master of a Robot army (this reminds me of Saren). Would she just turn it over to the Quarians and live in peace, or would she go a bit mad and decide to use her new Geth army for her own personal crusades?

Another thing that concerns me about the Geth, is that they are machines and so will have evolutionary limitations. I wonder if they realise this themselves, and so to further their development as a race, have begun to experiment on Quarians and meld with them to attain true evolution. When the Quarians left Rannoch, do we know if they 'all' managed to escape, or were some Quarian's behind? Maybe one reason why the Geth are looking after Rannoch is to harvest the remaining Quarians and use them as test subjects. A chilling thought!

[HellBovine]

T.Attwood wrote...

This made me realise that if Xen managed to find a way to control the Geth, they would effectively return to being the workers for the Quarians that they were originally built for. I guess things could get back to normal. However, I think Xen is displaying certain megalomaniac characteristics. If she (alone) found a way to control the Geth, she would effectively be the master of a Robot army (this reminds me of Saren). Would she just turn it over to the Quarians and live in peace, or would she go a bit mad and decide to use her new Geth army for her own personal crusades?

Another thing that concerns me about the Geth, is that they are machines and so will have evolutionary limitations. I wonder if they realise this themselves, and so to further their development as a race, have begun to experiment on Quarians and meld with them to attain true evolution. When the Quarians left Rannoch, do we know if they 'all' managed to escape, or were some Quarian's behind? Maybe one reason why the Geth are looking after Rannoch is to harvest the remaining Quarians and use them as test subjects. A chilling thought!

I don't think that the geth have any intention of "melding" with the quarians, although it would suck if they did.

From what I've been able to gather, it seems that the ultimate goal is to become reaper-like. That's why the heretics decided to work with the reapers, so they could get a brand-new reaper body to inhabit after they were done. Regardless it would probably not have mattered as the reapers really seem to have no respect for the geth.

[GottyGear]

Hey, brand new here so I apologize in advance if I end up violating some sort of formatting rule.

I'd like to say it seems likely that what you chose, if anything, to tell the Admiralty Board at the end of Tali's loyalty mission will have a huge impact in ME3. Telling them to go to war will, in my opinion, likely have both positive and negative repercussions (despite being the "renegade" choice). Same with telling them not to throw their lives way. Perhaps it will have an impact on whether it's even possible to end up on Rannoch with Tali at the end. Just my two cents.

[T.Attwood]

GottyGear wrote...

Hey, brand new here so I apologize in advance if I end up violating some sort of formatting rule.

I'd like to say it seems likely that what you chose, if anything, to tell the Admiralty Board at the end of Tali's loyalty mission will have a huge impact in ME3. Telling them to go to war will, in my opinion, likely have both positive and negative repercussions (despite being the "renegade" choice). Same with telling them not to throw their lives way. Perhaps it will have an impact on whether it's even possible to end up on Rannoch with Tali at the end. Just my two cents.

Welcome new dude! Yeah, there has been quite a few debates on this over the last few months on what kind of things could happen. You are right, Bioware does seem to have created the trial scene on the Flotilla as a way of determining whether the Quarians should pursue peace or war with the Geth. It does seem to suggest far reaching implications on how the game will play out in ME3, and the final outcome of what happens to each race after (assuming) the Reapers have been beaten. Everyone could end up living in peace and happily ever after, or it could end up being widespread annihilation and body-bags all round (not the happiest of endings).
    After people have played through ME3, I think there is going to be a lot of replaying ME1 and ME2 to change decisions made during those games, in order to improve the outcomes in ME3.
    What option did you choose during Tali's trial?

Edit: I guess you are a Tali fan too, considering this is the first thread you posted on after signing up?

Modifié par T.Attwood, 10 août 2011 - 10:25 .

[GottyGear]

T.Attwood wrote...

Welcome new dude! Yeah, there has been quite a few debates on this over the last few months on what kind of things could happen. You are right, Bioware does seem to have created the trial scene on the Flotilla as a way of determining whether the Quarians should pursue peace or war with the Geth. It does seem to suggest far reaching implications on how the game will play out in ME3, and the final outcome of what happens to each race after (assuming) the Reapers have been beaten. Everyone could end up living in peace and happily ever after, or it could end up being widespread annihilation and body-bags all round (not the happiest of endings).
    After people have played through ME3, I think there is going to be a lot of replaying ME1 and ME2 to change decisions made during those games, in order to improve the outcomes in ME3.
    What option did you choose during Tali's trial?

Edit: I guess you are a Tali fan too, considering this is the first thread you posted on after signing up?

Yep. I guess I'm a tad late to the ME party seeing as how I got the first and second games about a month ago. I tried to romance Tali in the first one to no avail unfortunately. I still have no idea what makes her so compelling as a character or as an LI.

Anyways, I told them "not to throw their lives away against the geth". I kinda regretted it until I saw that I could do a reverse-virus type thing on Legion's loyalty mission. I'm fully expecting it to come to bite me in the ass when Legion betrays me or something. I'm holding out hope for some sort of final scene where the geth come and save the day at the very last moment, cliches aside.

[sites32]

GottyGear wrote...

Hey, brand new here so I apologize in advance if I end up violating some sort of formatting rule.

I'd like to say it seems likely that what you chose, if anything, to tell the Admiralty Board at the end of Tali's loyalty mission will have a huge impact in ME3. Telling them to go to war will, in my opinion, likely have both positive and negative repercussions (despite being the "renegade" choice). Same with telling them not to throw their lives way. Perhaps it will have an impact on whether it's even possible to end up on Rannoch with Tali at the end. Just my two cents.

Welcome. Whether you side with the Quarians or Geth most likely you will need both races in ME3. But many think you will have to choose sides. I hope it doesn't play out like that. I will not sacrifice the fleet for Geth strength against the Reapers.

[GottyGear]

sitesunseen wrote...

Welcome. Whether you side with the Quarians or Geth most likely you will need both races in ME3. But many think you will have to choose sides. I hope it doesn't play out like that. I will not sacrifice the fleet for Geth strength against the Reapers.

Agreed. I wouldn't hate having to choose sides, as it might be a tad more realistic. I do (correct me if I'm wrong) get the feeling that for most people it wouldn't be much of a decision.

[sites32]

GottyGear wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Welcome. Whether you side with the Quarians or Geth most likely you will need both races in ME3. But many think you will have to choose sides. I hope it doesn't play out like that. I will not sacrifice the fleet for Geth strength against the Reapers.

Agreed. I wouldn't hate having to choose sides, as it might be a tad more realistic. I do (correct me if I'm wrong) get the feeling that for most people it wouldn't be much of a decision.

You said you don't see why tali is a compelling character, i thought the same when I started the series. But during ME1 I took her on every mission and side quest. At the end I was hooked. : )

[GottyGear]

sitesunseen wrote...

You said you don't see why tali is a compelling character, i thought the same when I started the series. But during ME1 I took her on every mission and side quest. At the end I was hooked. : )

Same, I don't know where the allure comes from. I *would* like to ask something just so I don't tread on anyone's tail. It seems as though there's a pretty negative stigma on these boards when it comes to Tali fans. I did a bit of lurking before posting and that's simply the impression I got. Am I right?

[T.Attwood]

GottyGear wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Welcome. Whether you side with the Quarians or Geth most likely you will need both races in ME3. But many think you will have to choose sides. I hope it doesn't play out like that. I will not sacrifice the fleet for Geth strength against the Reapers.

Agreed. I wouldn't hate having to choose sides, as it might be a tad more realistic. I do (correct me if I'm wrong) get the feeling that for most people it wouldn't be much of a decision.

When you were playing through ME2, did you sometimes feel that in some scenes, you couldn't side with the Quarians/Tali and were forced to side with the Geth/Legion? A few people on these forums had noticed the same thing. It felt strange when I came across these scenes in ME2. It looks like Bioware is attempting to sway the player into thinking that the Geth aren't purely mindless killing machines (coupled with the fact that the Geth are looking after Rannoch for some 'unspecified' reason). I get the feeling that the Geth could be allies in ME3.

[sites32]

GottyGear wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

You said you don't see why tali is a compelling character, i thought the same when I started the series. But during ME1 I took her on every mission and side quest. At the end I was hooked. : )

Same, I don't know where the allure comes from. I *would* like to ask something just so I don't tread on anyone's tail. It seems as though there's a pretty negative stigma on these boards when it comes to Tali fans. I did a bit of lurking before posting and that's simply the impression I got. Am I right?

Some people just love to be negative and hate on tali fans. I wouldn't take other peoples opinions personally. Most stay away from tali forums, but occasionally some venture forth to try and spead tali hate. : (

[GottyGear]

T.Attwood wrote...

When you were playing through ME2, did you sometimes feel that in some scenes, you couldn't side with the Quarians/Tali and were forced to side with the Geth/Legion? A few people on these forums had noticed the same thing. It felt strange when I came across these scenes in ME2. It looks like Bioware is attempting to sway the player into thinking that the Geth aren't purely mindless killing machines (coupled with the fact that the Geth are looking after Rannoch for some 'unspecified' reason). I get the feeling that the Geth could be allies in ME3.

I hope so. I definitely found it more and more difficult to side purely with Tali and the Quarians, despite how much I like her character. If there's hope to win over any race, it'd be the Geth simply because they're the only ones capable of purely rational thought.

I do want it to be *somewhat* difficult to accomplish though. I'm looking forward to a game that's possible to actually lose and end up screwing everything up. No more of this "well no matter what dialogue and choices I choose I'll get it done somehow" nonsense.

[sites32]

Yep I agree most fans will, about being swayed to side with Geth, I didn't like that really. It's like during ME1 when you talked to tali about the Geth some options you were given seemed rather rude towards her. And those were paragon options! I wasn't buying it. I don't want to be rude to a person who's race was slaughtered by machines and on the brink of extinction.

[T.Attwood]

GottyGear wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

You said you don't see why tali is a compelling character, i thought the same when I started the series. But during ME1 I took her on every mission and side quest. At the end I was hooked. : )

Same, I don't know where the allure comes from. I *would* like to ask something just so I don't tread on anyone's tail. It seems as though there's a pretty negative stigma on these boards when it comes to Tali fans. I did a bit of lurking before posting and that's simply the impression I got. Am I right?

There are those that would 'claim' that, but every character gets attacked at some point. This is more of a reflection on the mentality of the attacker than anything else (it looks more like an attempt to get attention for their own gain. It's the usual 'attack the person at the top' garbage, because Tali is a popular character).
    Since joining the boards and doing my own research, the accusation from the haters is that Tali fans are 'obsessive' and don't listen to other points of view. What I find hilarious is that these haters do exactly the same thing that they are accusing the fans of. And they can't even see it!

Anyway, discussing other people is frowned upon by the moderators. If you get any nonsense from haters, just report it (as they say, 'dont feed the trolls'. They are a waste of time. Conflict and argument is what the haters are looking for).

In general, this is a really good thread with a lot of interesting and intelligent discussions. Have fun discussing Tali!

[GottyGear]

Thank you! I'm guessing that someone has already said this over the course of this enormous thread, so I'm sorry if I'm being redundant but...

Am I the only one that wants a romance with Tali (or anyone else for that matter) to actually be DIFFICULT? For me to perform certain actions and maybe lose standing with other characters or factions. Make actual sacrifices maybe? As good as ME2 was, that was my main problem with it. Romances were so easy. Just always choosing paragon options pretty much got you there with them (with the one exception of not being able to tell Tali "No. It's too dangerous.").

[T.Attwood]

GottyGear wrote...
Thank you! I'm guessing that someone has already said this over the course of this enormous thread, so I'm sorry if I'm being redundant but...

If you think this thread is enormous, I guess you never saw the epic 5,000 and 10,000 page threads from last year?

GottyGear wrote...

Am I the only one that wants a romance with Tali (or anyone else for that matter) to actually be DIFFICULT? For me to perform certain actions and maybe lose standing with other characters or factions. Make actual sacrifices maybe? As good as ME2 was, that was my main problem with it. Romances were so easy. Just always choosing paragon options pretty much got you there with them (with the one exception of not being able to tell Tali "No. It's too dangerous.").

I agree, they did seem somewhat linear and formulaic. However, from reading info on ME3, your complaints seem to have been addressed for the next game. It sounds like the devs are creating more chances to fail with romances, with many difficult choices and potential conflicts between characters, with serious consequences for all involved. This info came from Twitter or quotes from interviews with Casey Hudson and Jesse Houston over the last few months (just look for recent online articles on ME3).

[TheWerdna]

GottyGear wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Welcome. Whether you side with the Quarians or Geth most likely you will need both races in ME3. But many think you will have to choose sides. I hope it doesn't play out like that. I will not sacrifice the fleet for Geth strength against the Reapers.

Agreed. I wouldn't hate having to choose sides, as it might be a tad more realistic. I do (correct me if I'm wrong) get the feeling that for most people it wouldn't be much of a decision.

I have a feeling no mater your choices in ME2 regarding the the whole Geth/Quarian war you will still be able to get all the various oucomes (wiether it be siding with one side, or getting peace between them).

At the same time i see certain choices in ME2 making it easyer or harder. Really this is the way I am seeing alot of the choices turning out.
For example getting both Tali and Leagion's loyaly, solving their dispute without angering either, and haveing both survive the SM would be helpful to pursue the peace option, since now you have someone on each side who is willing to listen to Shepard and possibly vouch for him when speaking the either side.

[GottyGear]

T.Attwood wrote...

If you think this thread is enormous, I guess you never saw the epic 5,000 and 10,000 page threads from last year?

I did not, unfortunately. If only I'd tried this series earlier!

T.Attwood wrote...

I agree, they did seem somewhat linear and formulaic. However, from reading info on ME3, your complaints seem to have been addressed for the next game. It sounds like the devs are creating more chances to fail with romances, with many difficult choices and potential conflicts between characters, with serious consequences for all involved. This info came from Twitter or quotes from interviews with Casey Hudson and Jesse Houston over the last few months (just look for recent online articles on ME3).

Excellent... So much anticipation! Despite wanting a more difficult LI experience, I'm still completely with the faction that desires the option of a happy ending with Tali on Rannoch. After all, it's not *that* unrealistic. I feel like they hinted at Shepard settling down in ME2. During a conversation with Samara I believe he says "I don't intend to live like this forever".

[PhantomSpectre]

GottyGear wrote...

Yep. I guess I'm a tad late to the ME
party seeing as how I got the first and second games about a month ago. I
tried to romance Tali in the first one to no avail unfortunately. I
still have no idea what makes her so compelling as a character or as an
LI.

First of welcome and it's never too late to like Tali. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

GottyGear wrote...

Same, I don't know where the allure comes from. I *would* like to ask something just so I don't tread on anyone's tail. It seems as though there's a pretty ative stigma on these boards when it comes to Tali fans. I did a bit of lurking before posting and that's simply the impression I got. Am I right?

Yeah, your impression is right. There are some people here, who don't like Tali or her fans that much. But mostly they won't bother you, especially if you stay on Tali thread.

Then again Tali is character, who you either love or love to hate. But it seems that either way people tend to have strong opinions about her.

[GottyGear]

She doesn't seem particularly polarizing, at least not in the traditional sense. I guess some people (like me) find her mysterious aura and accent to be attractive, whereas others find her to be whiny. Personally, she's my LI of choice not only because she is alluring, but because no one else is. Ashley, Liara, and Miranda are all unbelievably obnoxious to me. Jack, I don't so much mind, I just prefer Tali.

[sites32]

I lurked in those old tali threads 10,000 pages was nuts. They just moved so fast.

[Sebby]

Saphra Deden wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Yep I agree most fans will, about being swayed to side with Geth, I didn't like that really. It's like during ME1 when you talked to tali about the Geth some options you were given seemed rather rude towards her. And those were paragon options! I wasn't buying it. I don't want to be rude to a person who's race was slaughtered by machines and on the brink of extinction.

Bioware has been pushing everyone to side with the geth for a long time.

Resist their indoctrination.

It's a damn shame we're never able to endorse the Quarians trying to deactivate the Geth.

[PhantomSpectre]

GottyGear wrote...

Thank you! I'm guessing that someone has already said this over the course of this enormous thread, so I'm sorry if I'm being redundant but...

Am I the only one that wants a romance with Tali (or anyone else for that matter) to actually be DIFFICULT? For me to perform certain actions and maybe lose standing with other characters or factions. Make actual sacrifices maybe? As good as ME2 was, that was my main problem with it. Romances were so easy. Just always choosing paragon options pretty much got you there with them (with the one exception of not being able to tell Tali "No. It's too dangerous.").

Hmm, it would be more fun if you would actually need to work to get that Paramour achievement, not just purely talking with possible LI's. However as popular as some of these romances are, they are still only (minor) subplots in the game. So far none of the romances had had any effect on main storyline or even for any of the missions. Also because there were three different LI's for both genders in ME2, it was quite impossible to make romances more challenging to get. Doing that would have required quite a lot of extra dialogue and writing for each character, much more animations and generally much more work from BW. And to make it even more difficult was that if you made one particular scene for one character, you would need to make something similar for each and every one of the LI's, otherwise people would start to complain.

Also while basics (like romance scene in ME2) would be same for all LI's options, you would still need to make them unique and character specific (Like Tali's mask removal and what that means, Jack letting her quard down and showing her vunerable side or Garrus not being sure if he is worth of it in ME2). Now imagine if there would have been more of this sort of scenes or just more of dialogue in ME2. That would have meant awful lot of extra work from BW, which still wouldn't have affect to the main story in anyway. So, because of this, it seems that BW did settle for making Romances as effortless and easy as they could.

However it does seems that BW is planning to concentrate much more to romances and character interaction in general in ME3, so let's just hope that romances would be more challenging.