69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacellio2]

So i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect? Ash gets labeled as the racist but shes clearly isn't, she shows mistrusting at first(in ME1) then character growth where she even states Tali is like one of her little sisters, but with Tali however she shows no signs of growth over the trilogy. She hates the geth and will always hate the geth. Even after meeting Legion and talking with it/I for a game and a half and her realizing that the geth just want peace(not the heretics) she still went to war with them in the end. Even after you solve the Quarian Geth conflict with peace (if paragon), you talk to Tali and she says thank you for making that happen because she would of wiped the geth out without hesitation. So i'm just wondering do all of you talimancers just accept that aspect of her character and ignore it?

Modifié par Pacellio2, 26 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[l7986]

Pacellio2 wrote...

So i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect? Ash gets labeled as the racist but shes clearly isn't, she shows mistrusting at first(in ME1) then character growth where she even states Tali is like one of her little sisters, but with Tali however she shows no signs of growth over the trilogy. She hates the geth and will always hate the geth. Even after meeting Legion and talking with it/I for a game and a half and her realizing that the geth just want peace(not the heretics) she still went to war with them in the end. Even after you solve the Quarian Geth conflict with peace (if paragon), you talk to Tali and she says thank you for making that happen because she would of wiped the geth out without hesitation. So i'm just wondering do all of you talimancers just accept that aspect of her character and ignore it?

well if you lived your entire life being told that geth are bad it would be pretty hard over the space of 7 months or so to get over 20 some years of prejudice.

[Ticonderoga117]

Pacellio2 wrote...

So
i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious
to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably
the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect? Ash gets
labeled as the racist but shes clearly isn't, she shows mistrusting at
first(in ME1) then character growth where she even states Tali is like
one of her little sisters, but with Tali however she shows no signs of
growth over the trilogy. She hates the geth and will always hate the
geth. Even after meeting Legion and talking with it/I for a game and a
half and her realizing that the geth just want peace(not the heretics)
she still went to war with them in the end. Even after you solve the
Quarian Geth conflict with peace (if paragon), you talk to Tali and she
says thank you for making that happen because she would of wiped the
geth out without hesitation. So i'm just wondering do all of you
talimancers just accept that aspect of her character and ignore it?

Racist at first? Kinda, but like Ash she grows out of it. Just look at the dialogue after the end of the Rannoch arc. (Save both) She pretty much says she feels sorry for Legion and that he had to "die". In ME1 she wouldn't have said that at all.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 26 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Reaver102]

I accept it as part of her character, the difference between Tali and Ash in this regard is that Ash makes no apologies about her dislike of aliens, while Tali tries and I believe does overcome her hatred of the Geth in me3. She attempts to have the admirals contact the geth to open peace talks but is shut down three of the other admirals, at this point she can either warn the geth or betray her people and all of us would side with our own people if ever given that choice.

[Jull3]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Ignore it? No, I don't ignore it; I accept it. She was raised to believe that the geth were evil, and they exiled her people to live like Nomads. It's hard enough to move on, and accept a new way of thinking when one was RAISED that way, but that's her character, and she even says that (if you couldn't broker a peace between Geth and Quarian) she had to KILL a FRIEND to end their war.

You mention that she has had no character growth, but she clearly
does grow. She even says that she thought maybe there could be peace,
but when the board is out ruled 3-2, you can't ignore what the others
want. She didn't want war, but she had to go with it.

Tali has probably the MOST character, and is the MOST relatable out of all of the other characters. She has depth, she has flaws, and she can succumb to anger, and rage just like we can.

I'd kill off whatever AI I needed to to reclaim Earth if it came down to it, especially if we had the chance to live without space suits when we wanted.

[Pacellio2]

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

^ Err... anyway!

Racist at first? Kinda, but like Ash she grows out of it. Just look at the dialogue after the end of the Rannoch arc. (Save both) She pretty much says she feels sorry for Legion and that he had to "die". In ME1 she wouldn't have said that at all. [/quote

Okay but still it always irked me how she says that she would of wiped them out if it weren't for shepard. I have a few ME2 playthroughs where she was my LI but i just dont like ME3 Tali. For me I compare it to American History X with Edward Nortons character where he hates african american unconditionaly until he goes to jail and gets some perspective then learns the truth and how he was mistaken but when I look at Tali i see her getting that perspective and then just ignoring it anyway and I dont like it.

[Cheese of Borg]

Pacellio2 wrote...

So i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect? Ash gets labeled as the racist but shes clearly isn't, she shows mistrusting at first(in ME1) then character growth where she even states Tali is like one of her little sisters, but with Tali however she shows no signs of growth over the trilogy. She hates the geth and will always hate the geth. Even after meeting Legion and talking with it/I for a game and a half and her realizing that the geth just want peace(not the heretics) she still went to war with them in the end. Even after you solve the Quarian Geth conflict with peace (if paragon), you talk to Tali and she says thank you for making that happen because she would of wiped the geth out without hesitation. So i'm just wondering do all of you talimancers just accept that aspect of her character and ignore it?

In me3, she says she still belives peace with the geth is posible.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Pacellio2 wrote...

So i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect?

Heh... I think that is an ironic statement...  But no, I disagree for several reasons.  But I cannot go into detail, as I've stayed up too late already.

[Unschuld]

Cheese of Borg wrote...
Qumans would be amazing... but then Garrus fans would want...Hurrians?

 

They'd look like this, right?

Modifié par Unschuld, 26 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[Grimez7]

Pacellio2 wrote...

So i'm not here to start any flame wars or anything but I was just curious to see if all of you talimancers accept the fact that Tali is probably the most racist/prejudice character in all of Mass Effect? Ash gets labeled as the racist but shes clearly isn't, she shows mistrusting at first(in ME1) then character growth where she even states Tali is like one of her little sisters, but with Tali however she shows no signs of growth over the trilogy. She hates the geth and will always hate the geth. Even after meeting Legion and talking with it/I for a game and a half and her realizing that the geth just want peace(not the heretics) she still went to war with them in the end. Even after you solve the Quarian Geth conflict with peace (if paragon), you talk to Tali and she says thank you for making that happen because she would of wiped the geth out without hesitation. So i'm just wondering do all of you talimancers just accept that aspect of her character and ignore it?

No, she argued against the admiralty board against a war with the geth but she wasn't going to turn her back on her own people when they did go to war. She would have wiped out the geth without hesitation so that she could save her people, not because she hated them. Even if there is that portion of her that is prejudice, can you blame her? Her entire society has been focused on hating the geth for 300 years.

[Gen Petitt]

Well I'm off Keelah Se'lai

[Pacellio2]

Jull3 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

Ignore it? No, I don't ignore it; I accept it. She was raised to believe that the geth were evil, and they exiled her people to live like Nomads. It's hard enough to move on, and accept a new way of thinking when one was RAISED that way, but that's her character, and she even says that (if you couldn't broker a peace between Geth and Quarian) she had to KILL a FRIEND to end their war.

You mention that she has had no character growth, but she clearly
does grow. She even says that she thought maybe there could be peace,
but when the board is out ruled 3-2, you can't ignore what the others
want. She didn't want war, but she had to go with it.

Tali has probably the MOST character, and is the MOST relatable out of all of the other characters. She has depth, she has flaws, and she can succumb to anger, and rage just like we can.

I'd kill off whatever AI I needed to to reclaim Earth if it came down to it, especially if we had the chance to live without space suits when we wanted.

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

Modifié par Pacellio2, 26 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[Foul Slimes]

Sup people, I've been silently watching this thread grow, getting over technical issues that prevented me from posting earlier. But with those issues resolved, here I be. Now then, on to the topic at hand. Tali a racist?

When you reunite with her in ME3, she tells Shepard that she opted for peace over war as an admiral, but she was outvoted 3-2. She only went along with it for the sake of her people, as on such an issue, being divided could have broken up the Migrant Fleet in numerous factions and caused additional instability.

Furthermore, if you bring Garrus with you on the Dreadnought mission, he comments that the geth aligned with the Reapers only because the quarians attacked. Tali comments that she pleaded, begged, to try and negotiate but to no avail. When she says that, you can hear the tears in her voice, undoubtedly torn up by the ensuing conflict. There is no racism in that, I think.

[Pacellio2]

Foul Slimes wrote...

Sup people, I've been silently watching this thread grow, getting over technical issues that prevented me from posting earlier. But with those issues resolved, here I be. Now then, on to the topic at hand. Tali a racist?

When you reunite with her in ME3, she tells Shepard that she opted for peace over war as an admiral, but she was outvoted 3-2. She only went along with it for the sake of her people, as on such an issue, being divided could have broken up the Migrant Fleet in numerous factions and caused additional instability.

Furthermore, if you bring Garrus with you on the Dreadnought mission, he comments that the geth aligned with the Reapers only because the quarians attacked. Tali comments that she pleaded, begged, to try and negotiate but to no avail. When she says that, you can hear the tears in her voice, undoubtedly torn up by the ensuing conflict. There is no racism in that, I think.

But she still says afterwards that she wouldn't of hesitated to wipe out the geth if Shepard hadn't of intervened. She knew that the Quarians were wrong but she still would of sided with them to wipe the geth out.

[l7986]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Jull3 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

Ignore it? No, I don't ignore it; I accept it. She was raised to believe that the geth were evil, and they exiled her people to live like Nomads. It's hard enough to move on, and accept a new way of thinking when one was RAISED that way, but that's her character, and she even says that (if you couldn't broker a peace between Geth and Quarian) she had to KILL a FRIEND to end their war.

You mention that she has had no character growth, but she clearly
does grow. She even says that she thought maybe there could be peace,
but when the board is out ruled 3-2, you can't ignore what the others
want. She didn't want war, but she had to go with it.

Tali has probably the MOST character, and is the MOST relatable out of all of the other characters. She has depth, she has flaws, and she can succumb to anger, and rage just like we can.

I'd kill off whatever AI I needed to to reclaim Earth if it came down to it, especially if we had the chance to live without space suits when we wanted.

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

so your saying that if your entire life you were told that geth are bad and you never had any contact with the geth except when they are trying to kill you you would be able to have clear rational thoughts about them

[Grimez7]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

i think relating her to a member of the KKK is not even close. The KKK hate people that aren't caucasian because they are ignorant and can't accept the fact that all men are created equal. Tali had the decision between life or death for her entire race, she had the option to take back their homeworld and secure a better future for her race. She even says that she would have had to kill a friend on Rannoch - referring to Legion.

Modifié par Grimez7, 26 avril 2012 - 03:08 .

[Unschuld]

Pacellio2 wrote...

But she still says afterwards that she wouldn't of hesitated to wipe out the geth if Shepard hadn't of intervened. She knew that the Quarians were wrong but she still would of sided with them to wipe the geth out.

Because if it were my people/species getting eliminated/fighting a war I didn't want I'd totally sympathize with their enemy instead.

Modifié par Unschuld, 26 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[Olueq]

Why do you say Tali is racist towards the geth? EVERYONE hate the geth. No one even knows they are willing to make peace. When Tali DOES find this out she tries to stop the war. You say shes racist because she would have killed the geth if it were her choice, isnt that what Legion was going to do against the quarians?

[Pacellio2]

Grimez7 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

i think relating her to a member of the KKK is not even close. The KKK hate black people because they are ignorant and can't accept the fact that all men are created equal. Tali had the decision between life or death for her entire race, she had the option to take back their homeworld and secure a better future for her race. She even says that she would have had to kill a friend on Rannoch - referring to Legion.

Yeah I get your point and it was a bit of an unfair comparison but i guess none of us can really answer that type of situation unless we were put into it ourselves. I came here to hopefully get my train of thought corrected....but idk I know that if I were put in that situation I would do what I knew to be right and not kill off a race to save my own. If my own ppl were that ignorant and stupid to not be able to understand the concept that the geth/enemy wanted peace then thats there own fault.

[forthary]

Tali has changed her perspective over the Geth during the Mass Effect series. At first, she's hot-tempered about it, but meeting legion made her viewpoint change, especially if Shepard helped to break up the argument onboard the normandy without losing anyone's loyalty.

I sure hope that my infiltrator Shepard from ME2 can broker peace with the geth, otherwise I will scream and turn back time so I can save both the geth and the quarians. I rewrote the geth and while I did regain legion's loyalty, I wasn't able to break up the fight in the first place...

[Olueq]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Grimez7 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

i think relating her to a member of the KKK is not even close. The KKK hate black people because they are ignorant and can't accept the fact that all men are created equal. Tali had the decision between life or death for her entire race, she had the option to take back their homeworld and secure a better future for her race. She even says that she would have had to kill a friend on Rannoch - referring to Legion.

Yeah I get your point and it was a bit of an unfair comparison but i guess none of us can really answer that type of situation unless we were put into it ourselves. I came here to hopefully get my train of thought corrected....but idk I know that if I were put in that situation I would do what I knew to be right and not kill off a race to save my own. If my own ppl were that ignorant and stupid to not be able to understand the concept that the geth/enemy wanted peace then thats there own fault.

lol so you would kill millions of innocent people. Make sense. The geth were going to do the SAME thing Obviously Tali wasnt going to side with the geth.

Modifié par Olueq, 26 avril 2012 - 03:11 .

[Grimez7]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Yeah I get your point and it was a bit of an unfair comparison but i guess none of us can really answer that type of situation unless we were put into it ourselves. I came here to hopefully get my train of thought corrected....but idk I know that if I were put in that situation I would do what I knew to be right and not kill off a race to save my own. If my own ppl were that ignorant and stupid to not be able to understand the concept that the geth/enemy wanted peace then thats there own fault.

so you would kill off all of humanity to save a race that destroyed our society, exiled us from Earth and made us live in starships for 3 centuries?

[Jull3]

Pacellio2 wrote...

Jull3 wrote...

Pacellio2 wrote...

Ignore it? No, I don't ignore it; I accept it. She was raised to believe that the geth were evil, and they exiled her people to live like Nomads. It's hard enough to move on, and accept a new way of thinking when one was RAISED that way, but that's her character, and she even says that (if you couldn't broker a peace between Geth and Quarian) she had to KILL a FRIEND to end their war.

You mention that she has had no character growth, but she clearly
does grow. She even says that she thought maybe there could be peace,
but when the board is out ruled 3-2, you can't ignore what the others
want. She didn't want war, but she had to go with it.

Tali has probably the MOST character, and is the MOST relatable out of all of the other characters. She has depth, she has flaws, and she can succumb to anger, and rage just like we can.

I'd kill off whatever AI I needed to to reclaim Earth if it came down to it, especially if we had the chance to live without space suits when we wanted.

Thats like not holding a KKK member responsible for their actions just because they were raised in that atmosphere but still when I think about the convo where she talks about the admiralty board outnumbering her it reminds me of Shepards quote "I wont let fear comprimise who I am" and I feel like she lets herself get comprimised and it saddens me. 

Top Tali
https://encrypted-tb...j82PE6P2KLEcR3w

No, you wouldn't, but the difference is I've never met a KKK member that didn't just spout ignorance. Tali doesn't like the Geth, and for good reason for the majority of 65% of the trilogy. Legion was the ONLY geth we were shown to show any type of intelligent thought, and he showed us that the Geth weren't evil, and he even showed Tali this which was reflected in parts of 2, and 3.

It's been said already, but I'll say it again. She would have killed the geth for her people, not because she hated them. And like I said I would kill Ai for Earth, I would kill any AI, no matter how good, for the whole of humanity. You're assuming she's a bad person for saying this without looking at it from her point of view. You would let humanity crumble at their AI creations before killing off the AI to save them?

Let me note that these Geth were NOT truly sentient. Since the reaper code was removed from the dreadnought (Legion) they lost any intelligence and they, as wrong as this may sound, weren't truly alive until Legion makes his sacrifice.

[Pacellio2]

Olueq wrote...

Why do you say Tali is racist towards the geth? EVERYONE hate the geth. No one even knows they are willing to make peace. When Tali DOES find this out she tries to stop the war. You say shes racist because she would have killed the geth if it were her choice, isnt that what Legion was going to do against the quarians?

Everyone hates the geth because they are ignorant. Shepard and Tali and the entire admiralty board knows they want to make peace but because of the admiralty boards stupidity they decide against trying to have "talks" with the geth. And Legion made his choice out of self preservation...the geth would have never preemtpively attacked the quarians. The quarians attacked the geth leading to his desperation.

[Olueq]

Now you are not making sense, you REALLY expected Tali to side with the geth? Tali was opposed to the war but if she HAD TO CHOOSE she would obviously side with own people.