69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Olueq]

Lol. I think you have proven your somewhat contempt for America on enough occasions.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:00 .

[Olueq]

N7Kopper wrote...

American competitive debating proves that it's not violence that is the last refuge of the incompetent, but the Chewbacca Defence. Named for South Park, but it's an actual fallacy tactic.


And I'm just saying that racism is bad mmmkay.
And the thing is, neither of us are actually right or wrong, thanks to the nonlinear nature of Mass Effect.
It's just that Tali is wrong on the heroic route. Not necessarily on others...

and thats where the argument would start.

[N7Kopper]

Yes, it is. But that's my point and I'm sticking to it. Hell, she even says so herself!

America brought us the Chewie Defence. South Park lampooned it. Everyone uses it, often without realising.
Got nothing against the US.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 08 mai 2012 - 12:02 .

[Olueq]

N7Kopper wrote...

Yes, it is. But that's my point and I'm sticking to it. Hell, she even says so herself!

America brought us the Chewie Defence. South Park lampooned it. Everyone uses it, often without realising.
Got nothing against the US.

you really want to argue, dont you?

[N7Kopper]

debate.

[Olueq]

To change the subject

[Olueq]

N7Kopper wrote...

debate.

lol I C WUT U DID THAR.

But I win. Theres only arguing in the BSN.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:05 .

[Jull3]

I've been meaning to say this, but sleeping and all that jazz came into play.

These arguments are silly. She's racist, sure, and her people wanted their homeworld back, sure. That doesn't make them wrong.

The thing with Legion, albeit emotional, and powerful, and moving. Was GETH MEMORY, inside of a GETH consensus. To say that it was 100% all true, could be a possibility, but the other possibility is that Legion displayed what they wanted Shep to see.

Either way, the geth could have been completely frantic, and bat-**** crazy as we always thought them to be, but quickly grew out of it. We don't know.

[Olueq]

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

[N7Kopper]

Well, there's only arguing rather than debating because people who don't want to win a debate insist on making it so.
Not being one of those people, I reject that reality and substitute my own. Or at least, I won't stop trying... but then again, you've probably conceded the point through lack of argument by outright stating your own victory anyhow.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 08 mai 2012 - 12:07 .

[Olueq]

N7Kopper wrote...

Well, there's only arguing rather than debating because people who don't want to win a debate insist on making it so.
Not being one of those people, I reject that reality and substitute my own. Or at least, I won't stop trying... but then again, you've probably conceded the point through lack of argument by outright stating your own victory anyhow.

you gonna accept defeat and drop the subject?

[N7Kopper]

Accept victory and drop it. This was never a competitive debate. Please don't make it one in future.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 08 mai 2012 - 12:13 .

[Olueq]

N7Kopper wrote...

Accept victory and drop it. This was never a competitive debate. Please don't make it one in future.

Lol. Europeans, so persistant in their ranting.

btw. that was a joke.
anyway, if you continue the subject I wont bother responding. Now Im looking for an answer to my last question.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:13 .

[N7Kopper]

You were joking? Make it clear.
Sarcasm no work when you use the same tone of voice.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 08 mai 2012 - 12:14 .

[Fenrisfil]

Olueq wrote...

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

No.

[Olueq]

Fenrisfil wrote...

Olueq wrote...

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

No.

well its obvious she wouldnt like any ending. But having to choose. IDK. Lets assume shepard dies in the red ending. Otherwise that would be the only answer.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[Olueq]

In the blue ending, does shepard actually die? If he takes control of the reapers then hes still alive (obviously not technically) in a way. Assuming Tali has the information, IDK.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[N7Kopper]

Well, if you're not getting the best variant of every ending, the comparison is inherently unfair. And Synthesis only has one tier.

Jull3 wrote...

The
thing with Legion, albeit emotional, and powerful, and moving. Was GETH
MEMORY, inside of a GETH consensus. To say that it was 100% all true,
could be a possibility, but the other possibility is that Legion
displayed what they wanted Shep to see.



Either way, the geth
could have been completely frantic, and bat-**** crazy as we always
thought them to be, but quickly grew out of it. We don't know.

Well, so many people take what Javik says about the Zha-Til at face value,
and we know he hates synthetics. He might be one hundred percent right,
or the Zha may have been in control the whole time, and got annihlated
for contradicting the Prothean Cosmic Imperative through their
transZhaism. People have reacted just the same for having their religions solidily, beyond any doubt, proven wrong. (If they made their own young into nonsapient "abominations"
after they became immortal cyborg things, they were just not making the
krogan mistake of overbreeding)

Legion may have been outright lying. But if he lied, and it secured peace, than he just used a Renegade persuade on Shepard. Just like a Talimancing Shepard who picked "let the geth die" for their preliminary choice, before you find out if you can persuade, and then used Intimidate.

White lying isn't telling someone they don't look fat when they do. It's that. Saying you never were genocidal monsters, since you aren't now, but used to be. It produced a better outcome. At least if you get peace, like Legion would likely anticipate you would.

...the geth VI, on the other hand? Don't know enough about that thing.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 08 mai 2012 - 12:24 .

[Fenrisfil]

Olueq wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

Olueq wrote...

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

No.

well its obvious she wouldnt like any ending. But having to choose. IDK. Lets assume shepard dies in the red ending. Otherwise that would be the only answer.

As far as I'm concerned it's still the only answer. It's the only thing that solves the problem of the Reapers. The other two options leave the Reapers around and if they are around, they can end up destroying everyone again. With synthesis, free will is taken away as the choice is forced on everyone and everything, there is no protection against creating future synthetics and no protection against the Reapers should they decide to kill everyone anyway. It's actually the worst possible choice.

Edit: Off to work now.

Modifié par Fenrisfil, 08 mai 2012 - 12:36 .

[Olueq]

Not really unfair or vague. Best blue ending, Best red (except shepard), and green ending. pretty simple.

Modifié par Olueq, 08 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[Deoku]

Olueq wrote...

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

Hard to say. Synthesis end doesn't make everyone into AI.  Whatever you are organically(Human, Quarian, Turian) you stay mostly that with cybernetics intergrated in, or vice versa you remain synthetic (Geth) with organic components added.  Such as EDI still looking like EDI but most likely gained some internal organics.  Quarians are already used to this on some level and Shepard as well.  If it were to turn them into AI though I think she'd have a huge problem with it, but since we don't know the exact extent of how much changed internally it's difficult to judge her reaction. The one thing she would be happy about though is not having to worry about her immune system anymore.

Modifié par Deoku, 08 mai 2012 - 12:27 .

[Dilandau3000]

Deoku wrote...

Hard to say. Synthesis end doesn't make everyone into AI.

It changes the fundamental nature of life. A new DNA.

The problem with that claim is that it doesn't actually mean anything, so we have no idea what the actual end result is.

Regardless of which, you're still forcing that on every single life form in the entire galaxy, making it a morally reprehensible option to me. Legion's words about all life having the right to self-determination were foremost in my mind here. Legion sacrificed himself for the future of the geth, but I believe that he would rather have sacrificed the geth than to do something that is anathema to what the geth were about, like synthesis. I hope Tali would do the same, even if she didn't know Shepard would live.

Control is a bit more ambiguous. Personally, I didn't choose it because I don't believe it can work. Shepard, no matter how strong, would be subsumed by the reapers eventually, or even if he wasn't his point of view would be changed anyway. The reapers would be back to start the cycle again. Of course, I can't prove that based on the information given, but it's what I read into it.

That leaves destroy. It's what we set out to do from the start. The loss of the geth is something I'd rather avoid (and since Shepard can survive, who knows if the starchild was telling the truth about that), but even given that, even not knowing that Shepard will live, it's still the lesser evil of the three choices offered.

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 08 mai 2012 - 12:49 .

[Deoku]

IReuven wrote...

Deoku wrote...

Olueq wrote...

anyway. Would Tali approve of the synthesis ending?

Hard to say. Synthesis end doesn't make everyone into AI.  Whatever you are organically(Human, Quarian, Turian) you stay mostly that with cybernetics intergrated in, or vice versa you remain synthetic (Geth) with organic components added.  Such as EDI still looking like EDI but most likely gained some internal organics.  Quarians are already used to this on some level and Shepard as well.  If it were to turn them into AI though I think she'd have a huge problem with it, but since we don't know the exact extent of how much changed internally it's difficult to judge her reaction. The one thing she would be happy about though is not having to worry about her immune system anymore.

Do not even get me started about synthesis or endings.
Turning everyone into reaper/husk without asking, mostly against their free will? C'mon, get **** on!

Keep in mind what EDI said at our Suicide Mission in ME2 - Something about Reapers being hybrids? Collectors wouldn't need "human-juice 100%" otherwise.
So logically synthesis does not affect reapers very much. Also remeber Catalyst ( aka Harry Plothole ) that synthesis is the highest stage of evolution? "We are Your genetic destiny." "We are the highest stage of evolution." Rings any bells? So logiocally thinking synthesis is doing exactly what reapers want.

I do not think that Tali would like to be a reaper or a husk. But let this thoughts go out. This is not the place to argue about lacks of logic in the ending(s).

At any rate what She would do without her immunological problems? Shepard is quite dead. I can't image Tali saying "**** this bosh'tet" and going to Garrus.

Ahh BSN.... Anyway I never argued anything about Reapers and what the Synthesis end actually meant for this very reason. Im answering his question, they aren't really husk since as you can see in the end they aren't drooling mindless idiots they appear to still be themselves consciously so Im leaving it at that.  Whatever people want to believe about the synthesis ending, it's morals, and it's flaws are a different debate altogether.  If Im purely going by what I see to answer his question specifically then what I stated earlier is what I get from it. 

As for her immune system, being happy that she doesn't have to worry about it doesn't mean she has to worry about who she wants to screw next.  As she stated herself taking off her mask alone is a risk just to smell flowers. All Im saying is it's those small things that she does not have to worry about anymore. Simple as that.

Modifié par Deoku, 08 mai 2012 - 01:00 .