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[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

No. It simply doesn't. No fancy explaining changes that.
It probably should do, but it doesn't. The writers have the power. They're basically the gods of the verse.

That doesn't make them right. Fact trumps everything else. They can write what they want, but they are just wrong on this one. They failed at writing an ending, and failed at a large number of biological concepts. I am dissapointed in bioware.

[N7Kopper]

Be disappointed. Tali still can't eat that. My original point still stands correct. But was it established fact back when ME1 came out? A lot of people badger the writers for retcons that aren't retcons. What would happen if a juicy bit of ME lore was retconned due to being unrealistic?
And, technically, two people failed at the ending, not the writing team.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 01:35 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

Be disappointed. Tali still can't eat that. My original point still stands correct. (Even though I agree they should have thought about it a lot more)
And, technically, two people failed at the ending, not the writing team.

I shall remain disapointed every second of my life until I die.

Tali CAN eat that. Science beats everything else. Imagination isn't a block against truth.

If bioware gave control of the ending to two people, everyone involved in that decision also failed.


Edit: I'm not suggesting that anything be retconned. We all saw how much of a trainwreck they add up to. Just look at ME3. I'm simply asking that everyone keep in mind that there is nearly no barrier between the races eating eachothers' food. Don't retcon it, just realize it.

Modifié par exelsis, 16 mai 2012 - 01:41 .

[N7Kopper]

exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

Be disappointed. Tali still can't eat that. My original point still stands correct. (Even though I agree they should have thought about it a lot more)
And, technically, two people failed at the ending, not the writing team.

I shall remain disapointed every second of my life until I die.

Tali CAN eat that. Science beats everything else. Imagination isn't a block against truth.

If bioware gave control of the ending to two people, everyone involved in that decision also failed.


Edit: I'm not suggesting that anything be retconned. We all saw how
much of a trainwreck they add up to. Just look at ME3. I'm simply asking
that everyone keep in mind that there is nearly no barrier between the
races eating eachothers' food. Don't retcon it, just realize it.

Aliens, for hell's sake. Yes, you can safely say that humans that come from our world should be able to eat quarian food. But never the other way around. Nor humans from the MEverse. Never. Shepard survived a direct hit from Harbinger, got back up, saved the galaxy. A real life human would be flashfried, no matter what.

And besides, look at how EDI paints the forth wall when talking about the mass effect caused by eezo. It'd be like people in the ME world saying that we can achieve FTL travel through element zero because they can, ignoring the fact it's unlikely to even exist.

And those two people hijacked it. Only EA could have vetoed that, and that's called executive meddling, and is generally a bad thing.


EDIT: Ugh, who am I kidding. I'm arguing with you. You somehow think having the last word equals victory, so you never shut up.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 01:48 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...
I shall remain disapointed every second of my life until I die.

Tali CAN eat that. Science beats everything else. Imagination isn't a block against truth.

If bioware gave control of the ending to two people, everyone involved in that decision also failed.


Edit: I'm not suggesting that anything be retconned. We all saw how
much of a trainwreck they add up to. Just look at ME3. I'm simply asking
that everyone keep in mind that there is nearly no barrier between the
races eating eachothers' food. Don't retcon it, just realize it.

Aliens, for hell's sake. Yes, you can safely say that humans that come from our world should be able to eat quarian food. But never the other way around. Nor humans from the MEverse. Never.
And besides, look at how EDI paints the forth wall. It'd be like people in the ME world saying that we can achieve FTL travel through element zero because they can, ignoring the fact it's unlikely to even exist.

And those two people hijacked it. Only EA could have vetoed that, and that's called executive meddling, and is generally a bad thing.

You are incorrectly trying to push the suspension of disbelief where it does not belong. Suspension of disbelief works for mass effect technology because it introduces a new factor, which has a definite set of rules to it, and changes how known things behave. That is proper suspension of disbelief.

The food thing and quarian hair thing do not warrant suspension of disbelief. Bioware gave us too much information for that. We know how food and hair work, and given that quarians and humans are chemically very similar, suspension of disbelief is a VERY weak force. It is not strong enough to warrant belief that quarians have long hair in their suits or that the main races can't eat eachothers' food.

And if those two douchebags hijacked it on their own, the rest of the team also has some blame. They shouldn't have just sat there while those two ruined an incredible trilogy. Where was the artistic integrity THEN?

Modifié par exelsis, 16 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[N7Kopper]

No, I'm done here. You keep beating your head against that brick wall. Take that overrealism and get killed on Eden Prime when the Prothean beacon lodged shrapnel into your brain after failing to work because of incompatible neural networks. If you only like hard sci-fi, only partake in hard sci-fi. It's not that hard. :/
Aliens themselves are just as much an unknown. We haven't met any yet. Looking similar doesn't make them chemically so.

I like to suspend disbelief. It's what keeps me playing when my shields are down, I'm on one bar of health, and the health gate stops me dying when a rocket hits me in the face.

Also, they tried. Read the link in my signature.



Now, anyone up for a good discussion?

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 01:55 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

No, I'm done here. You keep beating your head against that brick wall. Take that overrealism and get killed on Eden Prime when the Prothean beacon lodged shrapnel into your brain after failing to work because of incompatible neural networks. If you only like hard sci-fi, only partake in hard sci-fi. It's not that hard. :/
Aliens themselves are just as much an unknown. We haven't met any yet. Looking similar doesn't make them chemically so.

Also, they tried. Read the link in my signature.



Now, anyone up for a good discussion?

Actually, that was explained quite well throughout the game. Thats why you needed the Cipher and liara's mind magic to make sense of the crazy-ass dreams you were having. And why saren required similar assistance.


We've had every conversation already. All there is left to do is bask in the light of tali.

Modifié par exelsis, 16 mai 2012 - 01:58 .

[N7Kopper]

Ah, but it shouldn't have worked at all, if you're sticking to realism.
No amount of cultural know-how can compensate for having a completely different brain.

Just like the levo-dextro thing was explained in-universe. Modern science then trampled all over it, but by then it was an integral part of canon.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 01:58 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

Ah, but it shouldn't have worked at all, if you're sticking to realism.
No amount of cultural know-how can compensate for having a completely different brain.

Do we know that much about prothean brains? I didn't get javiik (thank tali for that) so I don't know. The difference is the amount of information we are given about the subject. The more we know, the less your disbelief should be suspended.

[N7Kopper]

We know nothing about aliens, and how they might be able to look similar to us while being very different.
Disbelief suspension: 100%.

Yeah, we know enough that a Prothean can read minds, pheromones, moods, languages by touching people. If it wasn't for aforementioned "knowing nothing about aliens" then that would be a shatterer. I don't care how unrealistic it is if we can't prove it wrong.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

We know nothing about aliens, and how they might be able to look similar to us while being very different.
Disbelief suspension: 100%.

Yeah, we know enough that a Prothean can read minds, pheromones, moods, languages by touching people. If it wasn't for aforementioned "knowing nothing about aliens" then that would be a shatterer. I don't care how unrealistic it is if we can't prove it wrong.

We know that all the main races have double stranded DNA. We know that all known races are carbon-based. We know that quarians and turians can share food with little or no ill effects whatsoever, and are allegedly able to get nutrition from that food as well.

We know that turians, humans, quarians, salarians, asari, batarians, and krogan are chemically, very similar to eachother. All of those races are able to share food between eachother, within their levo/dextro groups, and get nutrition from them.

Humans can safely eat asari food, and it is not simply empty calories. Oddly enough, quarians and humans even share blood color. That makes it likely that they use iron as their oxygen transporter.

Humans and quarians also share traits such as fingernails and hair(grrrr.....) They are the only two races who are known to have hair. We know a lot. Suspension of disbelief matters, but can't justify everything.

That went on too long.

Modifié par exelsis, 16 mai 2012 - 02:15 .

[N7Kopper]

Point: swing and a MISS!
We know nothing about any aliens in real life. You're expositing lore whilst trying to argue the lore is wrong.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:18 .

[N7Kopper]

edit: lolglitch

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:18 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

Point: swing and a MISS!
We know nothing about any aliens in real life. You're expositing lore whilst trying to argue the lore is wrong.

You do realize that lore is not a singular unit, right? Parts can be wrong, and parts can be right.

[N7Kopper]

Parts can coincide with reality, and parts can contradict it. Parts can touch the unknown.
The dextrolevo thing is the second option as far as humans are concerned, and the third as far as the aliens are.
All canon lore is right, within the universe. A "new scientific study" showing that humans possess the unique capacity among levos to digest dextro-amino acids would have fixed this.

And now you're making this circular.
I don't mind wishful thinking. I really really don't. I just don't want it foisted upon me. As a canon lover, I know where I stand.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:25 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

exelsis - can you explain the issue with Quarian hair? My understanding of biology is admittedly lacking.

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

Parts can coincide with reality, and parts can contradict it. Parts can touch the unknown.
The dextrolevo thing is the second option as far as humans are concerned, and the third as far as the aliens are.
All canon lore is right, within the universe. A "new scientific study" showing that humans possess the unique capacity among levos to digest dextro-amino acids would have fixed this.

And now you're making this circular.
I don't mind wishful thinking. I really really don't. I just don't want it foisted upon me. As a canon lover, I know where I stand.

I'm not trying to turn you against canon. Or the dark side. I just want everyone to remaind aware of the fact that there is no reason, biologically speaking, that aliens cannot share food. You can love your canon as long as you realize on which side of the reality line that is stands.

Also, this debate needs to be MORE SHAPELY.

[N7Kopper]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

exelsis - can you explain the issue with Quarian hair? My understanding of biology is admittedly lacking.

So's his. He's trying to use Earth life biology for a species that's meant to sit on the other end of the galaxy, and doesn't see what's wrong with that?

exelsis wrote...

You can love your canon as long as you realize on which side of the reality line that is stands.

The undecided side. The side of "we have no goddamn clue"

I mean, why can't we just agree to disagree on what we want to be true?

exelsis: "Think Tali would like this pastry with honey glazing?"
N7Kopper: "Don't think she can eat that bro"
exelsis: "Well I prefer to think she does"
N7Kopper: "Whatever floats your boat, but I disagree"

Like that?

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:33 .

[exelsis]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

exelsis - can you explain the issue with Quarian hair? My understanding of biology is admittedly lacking.

There is nothing wrong with quarians having hair, but everything wrong with quarians having long hair. It is not possible for hair to stay in the scalp when something like an envirosuit is worn for the VAST majority of the time.

But I don't think they have hair at all. I think they have vasular tendrils. Like this, but much less volume. And no slime.

[N7Kopper]

I would like to see the helmet technology they cooked up to keep that hair in the helmet without getting stuck on anything...

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

I would like to see the helmet technology they cooked up to keep that hair in the helmet without getting stuck on anything...

It doesn't matter if the inside of the helmet was completely frictionless though. The hair being ripped out by the root is only part of it. If you strap a latex swimming cap on your head, and even if you manage to keep it from being pulled around on your head, your hair will still start to fall out, and will stop growing. You will have permanent, uneven, short hair.

And not sexy dreadlock things.

Modifié par exelsis, 16 mai 2012 - 02:41 .

[N7Kopper]

*ahem*
I would like to see the helmet technology they cooked up to keep that hair in the helmet without getting stuck on anything...
She isn't a human. She doesn't run by human hair rules unless the writers say otherwise. And the writers couldn't give a toss what any armchair xenobiologists have to say.
We've been over this. Cut this crap out, everyone.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 16 mai 2012 - 02:44 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

*ahem*
I would like to see the helmet technology they cooked up to keep that hair in the helmet without getting stuck on anything...
She isn't a human. She doesn't run by human hair rules unless the writers say otherwise.
We've been over this. Cut this crap out, everyone.

even if you manage to keep it from being pulled around on your head, your hair will still start to fall out, and will stop growing.
It doesn't matter if the composition of the hair is completely different, it it somehow grows from the tip, or has a different shape, thickness, texture, or pattern, even though the poorly photoshopped canon pic(huehuehue?) shows perfectly human hair. Any narrow filaments growing from the scalp will be ripped out, fall out, and stop growing.

Again, you can believe your canon. But that canon is incorrect.

[Cheese of Borg]

4stringwizard wrote...

So no word on Ash Stroka returning for the EC yet?

Yes, Bioware has confirmed that ALL voice actors form Squad will be recording for it!

[Darman]

exelsis wrote...
There is nothing wrong with quarians having hair, but everything wrong with quarians having long hair. It is not possible for hair to stay in the scalp when something like an envirosuit is worn for the VAST majority of the time.

But I don't think they have hair at all. I think they have vasular tendrils. Like this, but much less volume. And no slime.

Oh, is the topic Talis appearance again? Why she's got hair? Even long hair? If this makes sense?

 

exelsis wrote...
But I don't think they have hair at all. I think they have vasular tendrils. Like this, but much less volume. And no slime.

it looks pretty much like hair.
Hey, look, shes' got hair. And BW fortunatly won't change her look.

Btw, sex sells and bald isn't sexy.