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[Shajar]

N7Kopper wrote...

This is wrong. Liara can die by Harbinger's death beams. Any squadmate can potentially die this way if your EMS is crappy.

C'mon, you can take this on "serious" use. Nothing matters after beamhit, its all just one big plothole with space magic. Beam hit was cut out anyway, i got lowest possible score and there was no beamhit to squadies. She just cant die

Offtopic sry


Tali rules 

Modifié par Shajar, 31 mai 2012 - 11:02 .

[N7Kopper]

They altered it, so Shepard gets shot first. (Surviving that is a silly case of plot armour for a lot of people, but for a properly-specced ME1 solly/infil like me, it's a case of stuff finally making SENSE) You see the aftermath if you have a shoddy EMS. If you have a slightly better one, they escape.

And they're also fixing the ending, yashee?

Modifié par N7Kopper, 31 mai 2012 - 11:27 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

They altered it, so Shepard gets shot first. (Surviving that is a silly case of plot armour for a lot of people, but for a properly-specced ME1 solly/infil like me, it's a case of stuff finally making SENSE) You see the aftermath if you have a shoddy EMS. If you have a slightly better one, they escape.

And they're also fixing the ending, yashee?

They also said:

The ending wasn't going to be "anything like what you've seen before, no A, B, C endings"
It was going to be a "fuffilling conclusion"
It would be the end of shepard's story
MP would not detract from SP
MP would not be required to get a good ending in SP
Choices would matter

They don't have a good track record. At all. I'm inclined to disbelieve anything they say. I only have faith in weekes.

This is the fanart closest to what I think her eyes look like. All they need is irridescent blue sclera!

[N7Kopper]

exelsis wrote...

They also said:
The ending wasn't going to be "anything like what you've seen before, no A, B, C endings"
It was going to be a "fuffilling conclusion"
It would be the end of shepard's story
MP would not detract from SP
MP would not be required to get a good ending in SP
Choices would matter

Bolded statements were wrong. The unbolded ones are true. The one in italics is a Jedi truth. (AKA, you can use Datapad or Infiltrator too)

And personally, I'm enclined to not be a cynical knownothing. After all, optimist is just the word the cynic uses to describe the realist.
The track record of fixes such as this in video games is pretty much perfect.
Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition anyone? Or Fallout 3 Broken Steel no less?

Modifié par N7Kopper, 31 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...

They also said:
The ending wasn't going to be "anything like what you've seen before, no A, B, C endings"
It was going to be a "fuffilling conclusion"
It would be the end of shepard's story
MP would not detract from SP
MP would not be required to get a good ending in SP
Choices would matter

Bolded statements were wrong. The unbolded ones are true. The one in italics is a Jedi truth. (AKA, you can use Datapad or Infiltrator too)

And personally, I'm enclined to not be a cynical knownothing. After all, optimist is just the word the cynic uses to describe the realist.
The track record of fixes such as this in video games is pretty much perfect.
Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition anyone? Or Fallout 3 Broken Steel no less?

MP detracts from SP is a true statement. If you have to play MP to do well in SP, your SP only experience has been diminished. The destroy ending(and everything that EA and bioware are doing) indicates that there will be a sequel. And your choices don't matter. Kill wrex, not cure the genophage, exterminate the geth, none of them matter. The only thing you get to choose is the color of your disappointment.

No one ever ****ed up this bad before. This is the titanic of the video game industry. It wouldn't have made as much of a stir if CoD had a storyline.

FO3 didn't have a trash ending. Personally, I expected something like that to happen. Broken steel was the odd part for me, but I still enjoyed playing it. Never played any witcher games.

Modifié par exelsis, 31 mai 2012 - 01:25 .

[N7Kopper]

No, it's false. No development resources or manpower were detracted from the storyline to create the multiplayer mode. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed.
And the only real problem is that you need to be online to play it. You shouldn't expect the best outcome from missing out half the game's worth of sidequest.

And the endings on-disc aren't canon, for christ's sake. The EC endings will be canon. We do not know if they're worth it or not, but dismissing it out of hand is a fool's errand, and outright stupid honestly.

And FO3 did have a trashy ending. Three squadmates were utterly immune to radiation, and you had to either hit the switch yourself or get the not-immune Sarah Lyons to do it, until Steel came out. At least ME3's ending makes some tiny semblance of sense in some parts. (Illusive Man confrontation, the beginning of the Starchild conversation.)

And Witcher 2 was far, far worse. The Enhanced Edition was about 22-24 GB in size. Giga. Bytes. How monumental must the screwup have been to require a patch that big?

But hey, I'm not going to try and excise your assumptions. It's not like it'll make the ending better. I'll just wait until the Cut comes out. That will.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 31 mai 2012 - 01:36 .

[lillitheris]

N7Kopper wrote...

No, it's false. No development resources or manpower were detracted from the storyline to create the multiplayer mode. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed.

Categorically false. There’s a budget, and I guarantee you it’s not “Oh, you want to do multiplayer too? Here, have some more money that’ll cover the entire MP development.” How much it detracts is an open question, and personally I think that aside from the cheap MP requirement it was nowhere near the biggest problem with ME3.

Unless, of course, you count that they probably made some of the changes they did in SP because they wanted to appeal to more people who would play MP…

[N7Kopper]

lillitheris wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

No, it's false. No development resources or manpower were detracted from the storyline to create the multiplayer mode. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed.

Categorically false. There’s a budget, and I guarantee you it’s not “Oh, you want to do multiplayer too? Here, have some more money that’ll cover the entire MP development.” How much it detracts is an open question, and personally I think that aside from the cheap MP requirement it was nowhere near the biggest problem with ME3.

Unless, of course, you count that they probably made some of the changes they did in SP because they wanted to appeal to more people who would play MP…

Do you know how much money the microtransaction system actually nets? Quite a lot, considering that all MP DLC is free.
So it probably actually was "Hey, if you put in this multiplayer and use our microtransation boosted pack buy system for unlocks, we'll fund you ###### more!"

It's called an investment.

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

No, it's false. No development resources or manpower were detracted from the storyline to create the multiplayer mode. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed.
And the only real problem is that you need to be online to play it. You shouldn't expect the best outcome from missing out half the game's worth of sidequest.

And the endings on-disc aren't canon, for christ's sake. The EC endings will be canon. We do not know if they're worth it or not, but dismissing it out of hand is a fool's errand, and outright stupid honestly.

And FO3 did have a trashy ending. Three squadmates were utterly immune to radiation, and you had to either hit the switch yourself or get the not-immune Sarah Lyons to do it, until Steel came out. At least ME3's ending makes some tiny semblance of sense in some parts. (Illusive Man confrontation, the beginning of the Starchild conversation.)

And Witcher 2 was far, far worse. The Enhanced Edition was about 22-24 GB in size. Giga. Bytes. How monumental must the screwup have been to require a patch that big?

But hey, I'm not going to try and excise your assumptions. It's not like it'll make the ending better. I'll just wait until the Cut comes out. That will.

I know that no assets were diverted from SP to MP, but that is beside the point. If you MUST play MP to get the best ending in SP, the SP experience is diminished. That is what happened, even though bioware promised that it would not be the case. And I should expect to be able to get the best ending from SP only when they say that I can.

So what exists is not canon, but what does not yet exist and is unknown is canon? That's rediculous.

Not being able to get fawkes to enter the code is one plothole. ME3 has more holes than a seive. In FO3, you don't teleport from the purifier to mothership zeta where the ghost of abe lincoln tells you that you must sacrifice yourself to A: activate purifier B: activate purifier with anti-mutant junk, C: turn everyone into ultra-humans.

I can't say anything on the wticher at all. Never played. No basis for comment.

Be an optomist if you will. I shall expect nothing, and hope for everything. That way, I cannot suffer further disappointment.

[N7Kopper]

I'm a realist, dammit. A cynic would call me an optimist, however.
And no, it's not absurd. The Extended Cut may not be finished, but it exists.

And if you think multiplayer is a diminishment of your experience (which it categorically isn't in most people's opinions) and you're not playing on the PS3, you can simply use a save editor to bump your EMS up to a point where you don't need it!

And before you say "you shouldn't have to" YOU ARE DELIBERATELY MISSING OUT ABOUT HALF OF THE GAME. You SHOULD be punished in some way. What you shouldn't be punished for, however - is not having online access. I mean, if you don't like doing loyalty missions in ME2, which are different from the rest of the plot missions - same as multiplayer and single player in 3 play out kinda differently, expect to die. I mean, Thane and Samara's missions have no combat content whatsoever. And if the story is the foundation, the combat is the backbone.
But anyone can do the loyalty missions. You don't need to be online.

It's a moot point, anyway. Like you said, the non-Extended endings aren't worth it, so if you're capable of getting the Extended Cut, you're capable of playing the multiplayer. (With a very few exceptions that really should still be accounted for, and may actually be when it comes out)

Some method of playing the MP mode with Shepard and squad offline to boost readiness without a chance at getting the Special Ops asset wouldn't have gone amiss. Hell, you could even choose to not deploy Shepard, and instead play as your squad!

And if you're expecting nothing, but hoping for everything, don't whine. Whining makes you seem like one of those "oh woe is me" people who likes to ignore any good news. Just remain a stoic.
I want to do this. This is just a game for me, and if it sucks, I'll pay for a gamertag change, go play some Portal, and just drink to new days.

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...
And if you think multiplayer is a diminishment of your experience (which it categorically isn't in most people's opinions) and you're not playing on the PS3, you can simply use a save editor to bump your EMS up to a point where you don't need it!

And before you say "you shouldn't have to" YOU ARE DELIBERATELY MISSING OUT ABOUT HALF OF THE GAME. You SHOULD be punished in some way. What you shouldn't be punished for, however - is not having online access. I mean, if you don't like doing loyalty missions in ME2, which are different from the rest of the plot missions - same as multiplayer and single player in 3 play out kinda differently, expect to die. I mean, Thane and Samara's missions have no combat content whatsoever. And if the story is the foundation, the combat is the backbone.
But anyone can do the loyalty missions. You don't need to be online.

When bioware says that you don't need to play MP to get the best ending, and it turns out that you do, they have lied. It doesn't matter if I can play MP. Personally, I hate MP and hate all the moronic execs that made the decision to introduce it. But it doesn't matter. They lied about MP, and being able to change that with a save editor or pretending that they never lied and just playing MP doesn't change that fact.

They never lied about the loyalty missions. No one ever said that you don't need to do loyalty missions to get the best ending. Several points in the game just SCREAM go do more loyalty missions, doofus. That's fine. Lies aren't fine.

[N7Kopper]

So you're saying they should have outright stated you need multiplayer/Infiltrator/Datapad to get the best ending.
I agree.
But don't hate on multiplayer itself. It's good. If you don't like it, then you don't like it. Doesn't stop it being good.
It's like Call of Duty as a series. An involving (if linear) plot, a deep multiplayer with lots of RPG customisation... and I can't stand it. It's still great, but I just can't stand it.


Tali is sad that she's not in the multiplayer. She wanted to play as herself.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 31 mai 2012 - 02:15 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

So you're saying they should have outright stated you need multiplayer to get the best ending.
I agree.

And that the pile of lies building up at their feet are a discredit to everything they now say. Until the EC comes out, it's all just worthless drivel. Words are cheap, but actions have worth.

[N7Kopper]

exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

So you're saying they should have outright stated you need multiplayer to get the best ending.
I agree.

And that the pile of lies building up at their feet are a discredit to everything they now say. Until the EC comes out, it's all just worthless drivel. Words are cheap, but actions have worth.

Actions like hiring the voice actors back for another go around.
Some of the VA talent even said as much on their Twitters.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 31 mai 2012 - 02:20 .

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

So you're saying they should have outright stated you need multiplayer to get the best ending.
I agree.

And that the pile of lies building up at their feet are a discredit to everything they now say. Until the EC comes out, it's all just worthless drivel. Words are cheap, but actions have worth.

Actions like hiring the voice actors back for another go around.
Some of the VA talent even said as much on their Twitters.

The only ones that matter to me are meer/hale and sroka. I've heard not a peep from sroka, and that bodes ill.

[N7Kopper]

...nah.
The Sheps are the most important ones, and their contracts likely obligate them to be called back for DLC anyway.
And Sroka voices a love interest. The only reason she wouldn't turn up is if she explicitly said no. And she likes Tali's character, so...

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

...nah.
The Sheps are the most important ones, and their contracts likely obligate them to be called back for DLC anyway.
And Sroka voices a love interest. The only reason she wouldn't turn up is if she explicitly said no. And she likes Tali's character, so...

They would do more VA if asked, but I haven't heard that they were. If those 3 don't do more VA, the EC will be a complete flop.

[N7Kopper]

exelsis wrote...
If those 3 don't do more VA, the EC will be a complete flop.

You answered your own question. They will be doing more VA. For that exact reason.

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...
If those 3 don't do more VA, the EC will be a complete flop.

You answered your own question. They will be doing more VA. For that exact reason.

It seems simple, but the current ending is a flop for another simple reason: they let two idiots ruin the entire story.

[N7Kopper]

exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...
If those 3 don't do more VA, the EC will be a complete flop.

You answered your own question. They will be doing more VA. For that exact reason.

It seems simple, but the current ending is a flop for another simple reason: two idiots used their senior positions to force everyone else to kowtow to their artistic vision without the peer review process.

Fixed.
Those two were the lead designer and writer. The only people with more authority than them are their corporate overlords. And we all know how badly fans take executive meddling.

[exelsis]

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

exelsis wrote...
If those 3 don't do more VA, the EC will be a complete flop.

You answered your own question. They will be doing more VA. For that exact reason.

It seems simple, but the current ending is a flop for another simple reason: two idiots used their senior positions to force everyone else to kowtow to their artistic vision without the peer review process.

Fixed.
Those two were the lead designer and writer. The only people with more authority than them are their corporate overlords. And we all know how badly fans take executive meddling.

Executive meddling is certainly called for under circumstances such as these, and all fans would have cried for it if we knew what was happening. Too bad we were distracted by a euphoric desire for more tali.

[lillitheris]

N7Kopper wrote...

And before you say "you shouldn't have to" YOU ARE DELIBERATELY MISSING OUT ABOUT HALF OF THE GAME.

I dunno about you, but the Mass Effect series is a single-player RPG with an advancing storyline, engaging NPCs, choices I get to make, things like that.

I could not care less about yet another horde-mode shooter with absolutely none of those things and every single one of the ridiculous multiplayer cliches like constant fighting about ‘balance’.

Playing multiplayer would have about as much effect on my game experience as playing Worms 3D or Tetris.

I don’t begrudge you for liking it, but A) it would have been better if we got ME3, and then we got a shooter called, let’s say, ME3: Planetary Resistance, which had these multiplayer capabilities; and if the ham-fisted, ‘accidental’ mandatory multiplayer requirement wasn’t there. “You can just mod your game” is not a valid solution, especially since PS3 can’t and it’s against the TOS of Xbox.


Aanyway.

[Unschuld]

exelsis wrote...
The only ones that matter to me are meer/hale and sroka. I've heard not a peep from sroka, and that bodes ill.

The rumors are that Meer/Hale have already been called back, and are additionally working on "something they can't talk about". Ash Sroka doesn't use and has never used twitter as far as I recall, so you'll have to wait for Bioware on that one. If memory serves me right it was a Bioware employee/fellow voice actor that tweeted about her day in the recording booth for ME3 about half a year ago.

[Shajar]

 More Tali

[Fenrisfil]

N7Kopper wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...
*massivesnip*

Yep, more proof that the auto dialog complainers at least don't have a few facts.
When I say "does the same thing" I mean Shepard says the exact same sentence. This crops up a lot. And people (perhaps "convieniently" perhaps genuinely) forget it. When I say "outcome" I mean "outcome", not just "tripped event flags or plot paths"

Although I see your point, I prefer the game taking control than pretending that I'm in command. (Such as the Thessia battle with Kai Leng would have been improved if the gunship took out the supports right away, rather than a fake boss fight occuring)
But if space were the issue, they would have crammed MP onto one disc rather than both of them (xbox version) and removed a lot of unused dialog, such as femshep lines for maleshep only romances.

Although I do have a few peeves myself.
Alien blood being one. It gets misrepresented a few times. (Some of these times can be forgiven, because the people who actually know might not want to see the scenes in question *coughwrexfightonthecitadel*)
But in MP it gets annoying.
*derp herp playing as an asari*
"Shields down!"
...why are the sides of my screen red, not purple? <_<

And even if people do have this magic power to put words into my mouth and assume "illusion of choice" means "a choice that ultimately does nothing to the plot" it still affected your alignment. Auto dialog also helps your Paragon/Renegade ratio reflect Shepard's actual approach to problem solving, wheras in the previous games it simply hindered your ability to play as either a nice guy who snaps under pressure and starts shouting people down, or the opposite.

...honestly, I think this should have been the way it was since ME1. Reputation rather than Para/Rene determining persuades, with Para/Rene just being an indicator of the player's leanings, automatic dialog allowing for some aspects of Shepard's character to be fleshed away from input, reinforcing the fact that Shepard isn't really you. You just play as Shepard and direct the big choices.

I kept the long quote here because we're a few pages on and I've not been keeping up.

I think that if your talking about instances of Shepard having multiple dialogue options and then saying the same thing anyway right off the bat, then your misinterpreting what the auto-dialogue complainers want yourself. I mean no way anyone would actually ask for that. What we want is variation in the dialogue that reflects how we feel at the time. I don't see that that is such a bad thing to want rather then just an automatic dialogue scene with no human interaction. If you know of anyone that is actually asking for auto dialogue to be replaced by options that result in Shepard saying the same line feel free to correct me, but my mind will probably still fail to accept that anyone is that crazy.

I agree with you about the Kai Leng scene. I'm talking just about conversations and things that involve personality rather then action scenes. The fake conflict with Leng really annoyed me too. He was easy to take down and after standing around while he hacked Thane apart it's frustrating not to be able to have a proper fight with him on Thessia. But then I hate Leng as a character in general. The third worst character in the whole series IMHO (not hard to guess who number 2 and 1 are, funny how they are all in ME3).

I also agree about the reputation thing. I didn't like in ME2 being forced down one path or the other. At least in ME1 I could spend skill points one way or the other without having to be a complete b*stard or goodie two shoes all the time. ME3 had that don't better, though I would have liked it if it had gone further and taken into account Renegade/Paragon balance (Percentage of total points, not just a score of one or the other) to determine some options. So reputation would determine most options but in some cases you also need a certain balance of Paragon/Renegade and that should just be an extreme one way or another, some options could be more neutral or a bit renegade/bit paragon. That would be the ideal for me. I think in ME1 what let it down was that as far as I could tell, there was always a charm and intimidate option and they were always the same level, making it pointless for anything other then role playing purposes to have both. In ME2 they at least made some choices easier one way or the other, but then you couldn't do both anyway (unless you just cheated of course).