69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Edolix]

^^

Sure, she never states it. But then again, none of the other characters state their sexuality either. If you're going by that logic, most of the characters in the game would be bisexual.

Modifié par Edolix, 07 juin 2012 - 02:14 .

[exelsis]

Terrorize69 wrote...

exelsis wrote...

Darman, the fraction of species on earth with hair is extremely low. Also, every single species on earth with hair shares a common ancestor. They didn't evolve hair seperately, they inherited it from the original mammalian progenitor. Also, don't say evolutionist. It's a silly word.

Terror, your claim was that bioware intended for quarians to look more similar to humans than asari before tali was an LI. Tali was an LI before mass effect 3. Your post contains zero evidence to support your claim.

I've provided proof, you just decide not to account for it. And theres more out there, if I find the orginal sources that prove it i'll happily post them. Either way, I can provide proof backing her human-like apperance, you can't provide proof she looks like a pred-alien.

No, you have provided no evidence whatsoever. You have brought nothing that substansiated your claim that quarians were supposed to look more like humans than asari before tali was an LI. You can't try and retroactively say that they were. The current canon is the quarians are basically humans, but that doesn't support your claim in the slightest.

[Apathy1989]

Edolix wrote...

^^

Sure, she never states it. But then again, none of the other characters state their sexuality either. If you're going by that logic, most of the characters in the game would be bisexual.

Given the nature of terrors fapfiction, I think he/she believes all characters are bi. And enjoys ****** to the idea.

[Terrorize69]

Edolix wrote...

^^

Sure, she never states it. But then again, none of the other characters state their sexuality either. If you're going by that logic, most of the characters in the game would be bisexual.

Most of them are, play Femshep and you'll see this lol. Like I said, you have yours, I have mine, and neither are wrong.

@Exelsis, basically this,

Terror: 2
Exelsis: 0

Thats the scores on proof provided.

[Terrorize69]

Apathy1989 wrote...

Edolix wrote...

^^

Sure, she never states it. But then again, none of the other characters state their sexuality either. If you're going by that logic, most of the characters in the game would be bisexual.

Given the nature of terrors fapfiction, I think he/she believes all characters are bi. And enjoys ****** to the idea.

Don't imprint your fantasies on me, not my fault if your a tad on the homophobic side.

[JustOneGuy]

exelsis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

exelsis wrote...

Darman, the fraction of species on earth with hair is extremely low. Also, every single species on earth with hair shares a common ancestor. They didn't evolve hair seperately, they inherited it from the original mammalian progenitor. Also, don't say evolutionist. It's a silly word.

Terror, your claim was that bioware intended for quarians to look more similar to humans than asari before tali was an LI. Tali was an LI before mass effect 3. Your post contains zero evidence to support your claim.

I've provided proof, you just decide not to account for it. And theres more out there, if I find the orginal sources that prove it i'll happily post them. Either way, I can provide proof backing her human-like apperance, you can't provide proof she looks like a pred-alien.

No, you have provided no evidence whatsoever. You have brought nothing that substansiated your claim that quarians were supposed to look more like humans than asari before tali was an LI. You can't try and retroactively say that they were. The current canon is the quarians are basically humans, but that doesn't support your claim in the slightest.

Well Excelsis... even before Tali was a LI it was pretty sure that Quarians looked quite similiar to Humans !(sideprofile *cough*) I think it was even stated in the Codex at this time. During ME2 it became even more clear due the better side profile view and the books. Fact is that the cannon Pic, the codex, the things I mentioned before and the Wiki support Terrors point!

Modifié par JustOneGuy, 07 juin 2012 - 02:40 .

[Darman]

exelsis wrote...

Darman, the fraction of species on earth with hair is extremely low. Also, every single species on earth with hair shares a common ancestor. They didn't evolve hair seperately, they inherited it from the original mammalian progenitor. Also, don't say evolutionist. It's a silly word.

Terror, your claim was that bioware intended for quarians to look more similar to humans than asari before tali was an LI. Tali was an LI before mass effect 3. Your post contains zero evidence to support your claim.

Thanks for the information on earths organic beings. Nevertheless I still think there are a lot of creatures around us with hair/fur. And if you look back far enough, every creature, human or animal or insect has the same ancestors. The same ancestors also Quarians should have. Simple micro organisms and protozoas.
And again, I wasn't reffering to the odds of hair-development but to the function of hair and I stick with my opinion that it is likely other species on other planets would develope similar material. Besides, quarians have got hair. Its just a fact. Deal with it. You won't change it by saying its unlikely or by showing some suppositions by so called scientists. You can't change it like you can't change the basics of the terrible ending. It was BWs call, they decided this and Im not unhappy with this decision( I am, for the ending of course but nor for Talis face).
And for gods sake, how do I know what you call a specialist on this area of science. Let it be evolutionist or evolutionary biologic scientist or whatever. English isn't my motherlanguage, so I don't see how its silly. You got the meaning.

Modifié par Darman, 07 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[Edolix]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Like I said, you have yours, I have mine, and neither are wrong.

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with that. I respect your opinion on the matter, and I didn't mean to imply that I didn't.

It's just i'd appreciate it if you didn't post so much s/s stuff. A lot of us don't want to see it, so naturally it gets pretty grating when every other post you make is a fanart/comic of Tali and Femshep. The occasional one is tolerable, but when you start posting mountains of the stuff it gets tiring very quickly.

Modifié par Edolix, 07 juin 2012 - 03:16 .

[TheWerdna]

exelsis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

exelsis wrote...

Darman, the fraction of species on earth with hair is extremely low. Also, every single species on earth with hair shares a common ancestor. They didn't evolve hair seperately, they inherited it from the original mammalian progenitor. Also, don't say evolutionist. It's a silly word.

Terror, your claim was that bioware intended for quarians to look more similar to humans than asari before tali was an LI. Tali was an LI before mass effect 3. Your post contains zero evidence to support your claim.

I've provided proof, you just decide not to account for it. And theres more out there, if I find the orginal sources that prove it i'll happily post them. Either way, I can provide proof backing her human-like apperance, you can't provide proof she looks like a pred-alien.

No, you have provided no evidence whatsoever. You have brought nothing that substansiated your claim that quarians were supposed to look more like humans than asari before tali was an LI. You can't try and retroactively say that they were. The current canon is the quarians are basically humans, but that doesn't support your claim in the slightest.

One point of evidence for the Human-apearence of Quarians is the facial structure seen through the mask (present in ME1) that shows a humanlike nose in a position reletive to their eyes much the same as with humans

Another is the book Ascension (which was writen by Drew Karpyshyn before ME2 came out), which describes a Quarian's apearence outside their suit. While the description is vauge, the only trait that is directly stated as being different from Humans is the ears, saying "what passes for a Quarian version of a ear". ((If i remember corectly a Quarian in the book says that humans are the most simular in apearence to Quarians of all of the other races. I will have to double check this though))

[Terrorize69]

Edolix wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Like I said, you have yours, I have mine, and neither are wrong.

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with that. I respect your opinion on the matter, and I didn't mean to imply that I didn't.

It's just i'd appreciate it if you didn't post so much s/s stuff. A lot of us don't want to see it, so naturally it gets pretty grating when every other post you make is a fanart/comic of Tali and Femshep. The occasional one is tolerable, but when you start posting mountains of the stuff it gets tiring very quickly.

You make it sound like s/s Tali art was common, it's not... yet

And I can easily say I don't want to see Tali/Maleshep all the time, I may demand Kal/Tali only  or Tali/Garrus. It flips both ways, its a fan topic for Tali. Not Tali and Shepard only, although no doubt most people would like it to be so So yeah, we all have to be tolerant of what others post, not all of us have the same taste. I bet most of us don't play our Maleshep Talimancer the same way either.

[exelsis]

Terrorize69 wrote...
@Exelsis, basically this,

Terror: 2
Exelsis: 0

Thats the scores on proof provided.

Since you are currently unable to understand the simple facts, I shall try to use an analogy to show you your outrageous claim of victory.

Terror: All US presidents prior to barack obama have been black.
Exe: That is false.
Terror: Well the current president is black, so all the previous ones must have been black.
Exe: You cannot use the current to retroactively change the past.
Terror: Well obama looks black, fox news calls him black, and those things support eachother.
Exe: None of that proves that any other president was black.
Terror: Well I won nana nana boo boo.

Your claim still has no evidence. You have shown nothing at all that originated from before tali was known to be an LI. As that is the point of contention, you have made no real argument. You have simply piled on non-sequitors and falsely declared victory.

[Terrorize69]

exelsis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
@Exelsis, basically this,

Terror: 2
Exelsis: 0

Thats the scores on proof provided.

Since you are currently unable to understand the simple facts, I shall try to use an analogy to show you your outrageous claim of victory.

Terror: All US presidents prior to barack obama have been black.
Exe: That is false.
Terror: Well the current president is black, so all the previous ones must have been black.
Exe: You cannot use the current to retroactively change the past.
Terror: Well obama looks black, fox news calls him black, and those things support eachother.
Exe: None of that proves that any other president was black.
Terror: Well I won nana nana boo boo.

Your claim still has no evidence. You have shown nothing at all that originated from before tali was known to be an LI. As that is the point of contention, you have made no real argument. You have simply piled on non-sequitors and falsely declared victory.

I won.

Now read up.

[TheWerdna]

Exelsis.... did you skip the evidence I posted in favor of a Human-like appearance for Quarians I posted.

Modifié par TheWerdna, 07 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[exelsis]

"And I don't get the arguing etc about how Human Tali looks, seriously. Before Tali was even a LI option it was stated that Quarians looks the most similar to Humans, more so then Asari. And have you seen Asari? They are blue human chicks with a "comb back"."

And you support it with unsourced wiki information posted after the release of ME2.

"No matter how much you dislike the pic, both the Wiki and the pic support each other."

Yes, they don't contradict eachother. Unfortunately for you, mass effect 3 came out AFTER mass effect 2. I don't content that quarians canonicaly? look very similar to humans. This entire debate is over if that was always the case. Everything you have brought up has been nothing but stating the fact that canon quarians look like humans in ME3. This has nothing to do with this argument. Referencing the pic in ME3 is literally retarded.

@werdna, was away for a bit. Went back and read. That's far better than anything terror brought forth. I'll check the dates.

Modifié par exelsis, 07 juin 2012 - 04:09 .

[Terrorize69]

And yet I still win.

I provided the wiki's source, I said when I find the original source I'd post that too, Werdna got there before I did (Thanks by the way )

So, Bow chicka bow wow.

[exelsis]

Terrorize69 wrote...

And yet I still win.

I provided the wiki's source, I said when I find the original source I'd post that too, Werdna got there before I did (Thanks by the way )

So, Bow chicka bow wow.

And yet, you still fail to see the point.

No full description of quarians was posted from ascension, so the similarity between humans and quarians cannot be assessed.
Ascension was published long after people started asking for tali romance option. The important thing: was it published before bioware decided to make tali an LI. I can't find this information.

[Darman]

Exelsis, what are you actually up to? What is this whole discussion actually about. We know you'd prefer an alien Tali more than canon. But providing whatever proof for Quarians being non-human-like is useless. As I said, BW decided to make Quarians look like this. And just because you come up with your claims doesn't mean they'll say: "Oh, yes, youre right it makes sense. We'll immediatly release a DLC to make Tali look more alien like." This won't happen. Her appearance won't change. Quarians look human-like. Its a fact. Deal with it.

Terror will always win, because he has the writers on his side and the facts won't change.

[Terrorize69]

exelsis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

And yet I still win.

I provided the wiki's source, I said when I find the original source I'd post that too, Werdna got there before I did (Thanks by the way )

So, Bow chicka bow wow.

And yet, you still fail to see the point.

No full description of quarians was posted from ascension, so the similarity between humans and quarians cannot be assessed.
Ascension was published long after people started asking for tali romance option. The important thing: was it published before bioware decided to make tali an LI. I can't find this information.

No, you fail to see the point, its common sense.

Look at Asaris, look at Humans, look how similar they already are too each other. Now if a race is said to be even more similar to Humans then Asaris. You can get a close enough mental imagine of what that could be. Theres only a small amount of room to work with there.

Bottom line is, Tali was always going to be human-like.

[exelsis]

Darman wrote...

Exelsis, what are you actually up to? What is this whole discussion actually about. We know you'd prefer an alien Tali more than canon. But providing whatever proof for Quarians being non-human-like is useless. As I said, BW decided to make Quarians look like this. And just because you come up with your claims doesn't mean they'll say: "Oh, yes, youre right it makes sense. We'll immediatly release a DLC to make Tali look more alien like." This won't happen. Her appearance won't change. Quarians look human-like. Its a fact. Deal with it.

Terror will always win, because he has the writers on his side and the facts won't change.

I don't remember what this is about. I'm just too stubborn to let it go. But I don't think it has anything to do with anything.

Terror WOULD win If I was fine with him moving the goalposts from "quarians have always looked like humans" to "quarians CURRENTLY look like humans". I am not. Unfortunately for us, he doesn't seem to realize the distinction. So this is going to keep going. 

EDIT: Terror, you have once again posted a vacuum of evidence. It doesn't matter that she DOES look like a human. It only matters to this discussion whether or not she ALWAYS HAS.

Modifié par exelsis, 07 juin 2012 - 04:41 .

[Terrorize69]

Ok lets put it another way, Have you SEEN her look anything BUT Human-like in game or SEEN any mention in canon material that suggests a more alien look?

If you cannot provide proof of this then its pretty clear we can assume she ALWAYS HAS looked Human-like.

I doubt many species go from looking like a Squid to an Elf as they mature.

[exelsis]

Art from the ME1 artbook. 6 prospective faces for tali. The only one with hair is indistinguishable from a human. Why would they have a 100% human, and then 5 much more alien versions? Looks to me like the first one is a base, getting the facial structure how they want it, and then the other 5 are the 'real' ideas.

Also, the tiny 'dem hips' like sketch makes me thing that the artist was thinking that she would be an LI.

And the wierd white face next to it is creepy.



Not counting the first one, because it IS a human:

5/5 lack visible ears
1 has no nose or nostrils at all, 1 has nostrils but no nose(voldemort style?), and another barely has a nose.
5/5 lack any visible hair on the scalp, though 2 of them have what appear to be eyelashes/eyebrows similar to human ones
2 of them have completely black eyes, another seems to have white pupils as well as sclera, and a fourth has something wierd going on with the eyes, like multiple iris-like rings around the pupil.

Significantly more alien than the canon pic, and these are just faces.

Modifié par exelsis, 07 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[Terrorize69]

Do you have any idea how many concept ideas/art work are drawn up before a character is actually used? Showing concept proves absolutely nothing, its nothing more then brainstorming.

And, as people have already mentioned, you can clearly see a human-like nose behind Talis visor, which cancels out most of those concepts. Try again.

[exelsis]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Ok lets put it another way, Have you SEEN her look anything BUT Human-like in game or SEEN any mention in canon material that suggests a more alien look?

If you cannot provide proof of this then its pretty clear we can assume she ALWAYS HAS looked Human-like.

I doubt many species go from looking like a Squid to an Elf as they mature.

Have you ever READ anything from early new world colonists that indicated that they were NOT aliens? 

Have you ever listened to any of lincoln's speeches where he says that he DIDN'T hunt vampires?

Have you ever found any starbucks that DON'T have their products listed in english?

Anyway, read the above post.

[DirtySHISN0]

The bottom line is Tali has to appear human in a lot of ways to make her character relatable.
Example if she looked like a keeper who would be interested? no one because the character's audience would have been alienated.

The challenge that Bioware faces is trying to please many different people because unfortunately with different peoples tolerances and taste the line that divides Tali being too human and too alien is anything but fine.

So choose the face that you like best, after all it's your shepard who is looking at her.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 07 juin 2012 - 05:03 .

[Terrorize69]

exelsis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Ok lets put it another way, Have you SEEN her look anything BUT Human-like in game or SEEN any mention in canon material that suggests a more alien look?

If you cannot provide proof of this then its pretty clear we can assume she ALWAYS HAS looked Human-like.

I doubt many species go from looking like a Squid to an Elf as they mature.

Have you ever READ anything from early new world colonists that indicated that they were NOT aliens? Yes

Have you ever listened to any of lincoln's speeches where he says that he DIDN'T hunt vampires? Yes

Have you ever found any starbucks that DON'T have their products listed in english? Poor Example, Hell Yes

Anyway, read the above post.

Replys in the quote

My last reply on the matter, untill you can actually provide proof that at some point Tali used to be a baby Krogan before growing up to be a space elf.

Untill you can provide proof that Tali was meant to be more alien, you'll just have to accept that for a very long time, Tali was always going to be human-like.