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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*


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#62426
N7Kopper

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exelsis wrote...

And personally, I'd like absolutely no numberical interaction between MP and SP. Additional missions from one to the other are awesome, seeing a few of your promoted chars in SP, maybe in london, are all great, but I'd like it if single player could get the absolute best ending possible without ANYTHING other than SP.

And finally, recruiting tali early makes sense if you look at a map.

Batarians in the terminus and traverse, they are hit first. Rannoch should be in the right side of the traverse, which should get hit by the reapers BEFORE earth, unless the reapers are loons who have an invasion front the width of a solar system. Thessia and the salarians are in the inner council area, which means they get hit LAST, along with the humans. Really, you should be able to go right from mars to rannoch, as it should have been attacked by reapers already. Then tuchanka and the turians get hit, in the blue area. Makes sense from a tactical standpoint that the quarians would need assistance before or at the same time as the turians, both of which should get hit BEFORE earth, unless the reapers are complete fools.


Multiplayer characters have a two-weapon limit. If you're bringing squadmates in-line with them, giving them three is stupid. Just because you don't like the multiplayer, doesn't make it less canon, less fun, less innovative genius. It just means you're kind of weird. But we already know that. :P

And we've already established. Galaxy at War is half the game. It should be accessible offline, but the best ending should be out of reach without it. Laziness should not be rewarded. If you don't like doing it, you either suck it in and do exactly as much as you need, or suck it in and don't get the best ending. Or suck it in and cheat. Any of those three are acceptable.

And your last paragraph is all wrong. The Reapers are explicitly gunning for Earth from the very beginning. Because Shepard is there. "Tactical standpoints" are useless. The Reapers, and Harbinger, know this is a space opera. This one guy is the biggest threat this enemy conglomeration of trillions has at their disposal. It might work in a real battle, but this isn't a real battle. The Reapers aren't going to waste time attacking the geth at Rannoch when they could be trying to kill Commander Shepard. This one individual provides for almost half of the war effort, with a little help from his friends. Adding on the 50% boost from GaW, and the N7 Special Ops and Cerberus Escapees assets makes a whole army of species across the galaxy contribute only slightly more than one man. And their contribution in itself is highly dependent on this man's efforts.
After Shepard recovered from Harbinger's assault, that was the last straw. The oldest Reaper in the galaxy fled in pants-wetting terror. So it makes sense. They raze Kar'Shan because it's the first place to go, make a straight beeline for Earth hitting anyone in their way, then branch out from there.

Wishful thinking doesn't change facts. If it did, our world would be a far nicer place to live. It's awfully nice to try and rationalise ways for Tali and the VS to join the team earlier, but (at least in Tali's case) the plot would make a lot less sense if that happened.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 11 juin 2012 - 02:35 .


#62427
CmnDwnWrkn

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The lack of Kasumi was one of the more dissapointing aspects of ME3.

#62428
exelsis

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N7Kopper wrote...
Multiplayer characters have a two-weapon limit. If you're bringing squadmates in-line with them, giving them three is stupid. Just because you don't like the multiplayer, doesn't make it less canon, less fun, less innovative genius. It just means you're kind of weird. But we already know that. :P

And we've already established. Galaxy at War is half the game. It should be accessible offline, but the best ending should be out of reach without it. Laziness should not be rewarded. If you don't like doing it, you either suck it in and do exactly as much as you need, or suck it in and don't get the best ending. Or suck it in and cheat. Any of those three are acceptable.

And your last paragraph is all wrong. The Reapers are explicitly gunning for Earth from the very beginning. Because Shepard is there. "Tactical standpoints" are useless. The Reapers, and Harbinger, know this is a space opera. This one guy is the biggest threat this enemy conglomeration of trillions has at their disposal. It might work in a real battle, but this isn't a real battle. The Reapers aren't going to waste time attacking the geth at Rannoch when they could be trying to kill Commander Shepard. This one individual provides for almost half of the war effort, with a little help from his friends. Adding on the 50% boost from GaW, and the N7 Special Ops and Cerberus Escapees assets makes a whole army of species across the galaxy contribute only slightly more than one man. And their contribution in itself is highly dependent on this man's efforts.
After Shepard recovered from Harbinger's assault, that was the last straw. The oldest Reaper in the galaxy fled in pants-wetting terror. So it makes sense. They raze Kar'Shan because it's the first place to go, make a straight beeline for Earth hitting anyone in their way, then branch out from there.

Wishful thinking doesn't change facts. If it did, our world would be a far nicer place to live. It's awfully nice to try and rationalise ways for Tali and the VS to join the team earlier, but (at least in Tali's case) the plot would make a lot less sense if that happened.

Multiplayer characters have a two gun limit, but have no limit on the TYPES they can carry. Squadmates have a limit of two guns, and no choice of type. Why can't I give tali an SMG instead of a pistol? No good reason, really.

Forcing someone to play a repetitive, unoriginal game mode, after promising that such play would be absolutely unnecessary to achieve the best ending possible, is a gross insult to your customers. This is exactly what bioware did. My requests are all "in a world where bioware gets their **** together, doesn't lie, and can magically get everything done instantly without complications...." kind of thing. They lied about MP, and I don't like that. That segment of that wish simply forces reality in line with their promises.

If the reapers are moronic enough to send their full force to kill one man in a known location, with OVERWHELMING superiority of both air, land, and space forces, leaving them deep in enemy territory and exposed to possible counter attack, and then FAIL TO GET THE GUY, they never would have cleaned out even the first cycle. I'm too stubborn to believe that the reapers are retards. And why burn the batarians, who are already indoctrinated, rather than wipe out the quarians, the largest fleet in the galaxy? That's the real inconsistancy.

Wishful thinking can't change reality, but looking back on mistakes can enable an increase in quality of future endevours.

There is no reason to go to palaven before rannoch. The writers decided that they would force players to go to palaven first, and so you must. There is no reason that it had to be that way.

Modifié par exelsis, 11 juin 2012 - 02:49 .


#62429
Ticonderoga117

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N7Kopper wrote...
Recruiting Tali earlier? Disagree. Unlike ME2, the plot was written out this way from the start, and it shows in how clunky it isn't. And showing up to Rannoch before taking care of business on Tuchanka will not only just get you laughed at by the admiralty board, ultimately having you do the brick-wall-head-beat dance like Tali was, but the krogan would be pretty screwed, too.


I disagree. Heading off to Rannoch to stop the stupid war is a win-win-win.
Win because you get Tali earlier.
Win because you save the Geth and Quarians beating thier heads together to see which one caves first.
Win because you get the ships you need to move the Krogan around, plus a large force of ships that can keep the Reapers from landing on planets. (Much more usefull than ground troops imo)

Not too mention that the Spectre terminal teases you about the whole dang thing. Oh, the Quarians might be up to something. Am I able to check it out, see what's up, ask Liara about it? Nope. Just ignore it and move on says the game. Bollocks to that I say.

And Kasumi doesn't want back on the Normandy. Honestly, the only squadmates who have no reason not to rejoin you are Zaeed and Miranda (although Grunt is kind of iffy, I can accept his want to be with his own people) - and Zaeed doesn't even have the excuse of finishing his plot arc moments before the point of no return.


I can see Grunt, Zaeed, Thane being not able to rejoin you. Everyone else is "too busy with thier own thing" to join you, which is BS since if they don't help out, they are all going to die horribly. Whatever I suppose.

The thing that gets me more? There's very little non-statistical Galaxy at War integration with the campaign. I would like to be able to do sidequests, portions of the main story, other fronts of the final battle, as my MP characters if promoted, Randall Enzo if Infiltrator is completed, and maybe even Jacob if I beat Galaxy and he survived the suicide mission loyal. And have the Galactic Readiness itself be reflected in how much of a battle the Reapers have across the galaxy. Perhaps the Miracle of Palaven would only happen with 80%+?


No! No, no no no no no! I do not want to play Multiplayer. It's been done better elsewhere. I do not want to play bland horde mode to get "good" things. No! It's already bad enough the breath scene is locked behind a "need to play MP" wall to be seen. This needs to be nipped in the bud. No!

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 11 juin 2012 - 03:11 .


#62430
N7Kopper

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exelsis wrote...
Multiplayer characters have a two gun limit, but have no limit on the TYPES they can carry. Squadmates have a limit of two guns, and no choice of type. Why can't I give tali an SMG instead of a pistol? No good reason, really.

Forcing someone to play a repetitive, unoriginal game mode, after promising that such play would be absolutely unnecessary to achieve the best ending possible, is a gross insult to your customers. This is exactly what bioware did. My requests are all "in a world where bioware gets their **** together, doesn't lie, and can magically get everything done instantly without complications...." kind of thing. They lied about MP, and I don't like that. That segment of that wish simply forces reality in line with their promises.

If the reapers are moronic enough to send their full force to kill one man in a known location, with OVERWHELMING superiority of both air and space forces, leaving them deep in enemy territory and exposed to possible counter attack, and then FAIL TO GET THE GUY, they never would have cleaned out even the first cycle. I'm too stubborn to believe that the reapers are retards. And why burn the batarians, who are already indoctrinated, rather than wipe out the quarians, the largest fleet in the galaxy? That's the real inconsistancy.

Goddamn, try to have a good point? I myself said that Tali should be able to wield a sniper rifle.

Repetitive and unoriginal? That's about as opinionated as "Call of Duty is a generic shooter with no tactics or good plot threads" CoD's campaign is either a rather engrossing alternate reality (Treyarch games) or a great commentary on modern politics (Infinity Ward) and the multiplayer itself has more potential for co-operation and team strategy than most anything on the market. It also has a heavy RPG basis in it. I am honestly disappointed in myself that I can't bring myself to enjoy it. (Call of Duty, not ME multiplayer) It is my opinion that MP is original enough to sink a few hours in at a time. Many people with nearly-maxed manifests clearly like it more than I!

Why do you care about the endings? There are no good ones. B) Read the bottom of my post and see what I think. Lazy formatting FTW!

And they failed to stop Shepard because he's Shepard. They succeeded in getting him in the second game, guess what it didn't do? Stop him. Harbinger succeeded again on Earth, in the final push. Guess what happened? He kept on going, leaving Harbinger fleeing in aforementioned fear. Space opera. Just because the villains play their cards right doesn't mean they should succeed. Granted, the Reapers' victory should be possible. But possible is the key word. What would the point of playing be if you can't succeed no matter what you do? Especially since the plot was fully set up in so that success is a distinct possibility?

Shepard is the biggest threat. He wouldn't be the biggest threat if he were that easy to kill. The exact things that make him the biggest threat are the exact things that make just shooting him with your dreadnought-destroying-laserbeams of death an impractical solution.

But we get it, you don't like the multiplayer or anything else. This dislike should, again, not detract from the experience of people willing to perform every task, and jump through every hoop the game presents them. People like me, who would highly enjoy the feeling of everything coming together, and actually prefer - in games such as this, the feeling of being a part of a well-oiled team machine than a one-man army.


And remember one thing. Human beings are very bad at telling if they're thinking with their cerebellums (emotional cortex) rather than their prefrontal lobe (logic centre)
It's the source of people screaming "I AM BEING REASONABLE!" in arguments when they're clearly not being so.
It's possible your love for Tali is distorting your arguments, at least somewhat. Don't blame you, myself. :wub:
Maybe my love for the GaW system is doing kinda the same for me. But I'm trying to control it, at least.

Image IPB

But please try not to derail topics with MP hatred. Most players of the game like the multiplayer. Most players of the game don't like that they were lied to about how much you need it for the "best ending"
And I won't derail topics with I think that people who think the Extended Cut will suck are complete and utter morons. Deal? :innocent:

But nobody knows if they're going to add a backdoor clause in the Extended Cut to get the best ending without any of the GaW stuff, so please. Don't complain yet. The EC endings will actually be worth it, unlike the coloursplosion endings we have now.



Ticonderoga117 wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...
Recruiting Tali earlier? Disagree. Unlike ME2, the plot was written out this way from the start, and it shows in how clunky it isn't.
And showing up to Rannoch before taking care of business on Tuchanka
will not only just get you laughed at by the admiralty board, ultimately
having you do the brick-wall-head-beat dance like Tali was, but the
krogan would be pretty screwed, too.


I disagree. Heading off to Rannoch to stop the stupid war is a win-win-win.
Win because you get Tali earlier.
Win because you save the Geth and Quarians beating thier heads together to see which one caves first.
Win
because you get the ships you need to move the Krogan around, plus a
large force of ships that can keep the Reapers from landing on planets.
(Much more usefull than ground troops imo)


And meanwhile, Cerberus detonate the bomb on Tuchanka, destroy the Shroud, and completely screw over the krogan. That would have been a nice stinger for people fool enough to do Rannoch first. :lol:


N7Kopper wrote...

The thing that gets me more? There's very little non-statistical Galaxy at War integration with the campaign. I would like
to be able to do sidequests, portions of the main story, other fronts
of the final battle, as my MP characters if promoted, Randall Enzo if
Infiltrator is completed, and maybe even Jacob if I beat Galaxy and he
survived the suicide mission loyal. And have the Galactic Readiness
itself be reflected in how much of a battle the Reapers have across the
galaxy. Perhaps the Miracle of Palaven would only happen with 80%+?


No!
No, no no no no no! I do not want to play Multiplayer. It's been done
better elsewhere. I do not want to play bland horde mode to get "good"
things. No! It's already bad enough the breath scene is locked behind a
"need to play MP" wall to be seen. This needs ti be nipped in the bud.
No!

Add a versus mode. America's Army style, where the enemy team are nameless, faceless, and indoctrinated. All the time. If you win, readiness points. It would be more fun.
And "bad" is subjective. If you don't like the idea of Shepard being unable to do it all on his lonesome, you can gun it alone. And be punished for doing so. The kind of backlash you exhibit here is what I personally want to nip in the bud. The complainers shouldn't stop the rest of us getting nice things. I want this to happen. If you don't want it to happen, work harder in your single player, and come in just under the wire for a "good enough" ending where nobody goes extinct, and named characters don't die, but there is hardship.

Meh, leaving anyway. For now. I get it, people here are strange folk who don't like playing with others. ;)

Modifié par N7Kopper, 11 juin 2012 - 03:13 .


#62431
Ticonderoga117

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N7Kopper wrote...
And meanwhile, Cerberus detonate the bomb on Tuchanka, destroy the Shroud, and completely screw over the krogan. That would have been a nice stinger for people fool enough to do Rannoch first. :lol:

Since when was Cerberus going to blow up the Shroud? A destroyer Reaper was sitting pretty on it... doing nothing. Besides, the Krogan aren't useful without ships. The Quarians and Geth, have ships. Again, ships are more useful than ground troops against Reapers.


N7Kopper wrote...
Add a versus mode. America's Army style, where the enemy team are nameless, faceless, and indoctrinated. All the time. If you win, readiness points. It would be more fun.
And "bad" is subjective. If you don't like the idea of Shepard being unable to do it all on his lonesome, you can gun it alone. And be punished for doing so. The kind of backlash you exhibit here is what I personally want to nip in the bud. The complainers shouldn't stop the rest of us getting nice things.


Fan-tastic. More MP that has a better use in a seperate game. Why should I be punished for not playing MP in a game series that for the last two games been a singleplayer RPG? **ck that! It should be a help if you don't want to do all the side missions, not a hinderance. Shepard has help, it comes in the forms of Tali, Garrus, Joker, Javik, etc etc.

If they really think this is the wave of the future, it should help!

For example, you get a 1.0x multiplier in the base game. This is enough to get all the best things in the game if you did your choices right and do all the side missions. MP should add to that, probably toppign off at no more than 1.5x. There, I have fixed the problem with MP so that we both get what we want.

#62432
MadCat221

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exelsis wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

Her HP and defence are too damn wimpy.
But then again, maybe that's by my "Chuck Norris is softer" Immunity spam build's standards.

Wrex and Ashley are the only people who don't die too quickly. And micromanagement is an unnecessary nightmare when you can solo Insanity with a pistol.

If your tali was weak, you simply outfitted her wrong. The only more durable squadmate is wrex, but he always seems to die first for me because he always catches armature shots in the face. Give her good armor, and she will stay alive through almost anything. Colossus X = quarian juggernaught.


This.  She can easily gain the most powerful shields of all characters, even without armor.  Her character passive skill laquers on the shields real thick on its own, in addition to the stuff she can get through the Electronics skill and from armor.  As long as shields can take the hits, she tanks real well in ME1.

Perhaps the rachni workers' ability to bypass the shields is why she goes "SPIDERS SPIDERS SPIDERS SPIDERS SPIDERS" if you bring her on the Rachni mission in ME3.

Modifié par MadCat221, 11 juin 2012 - 04:45 .


#62433
DarchAngelDavid

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Jarvik wasn't clueless about your being together. He was clueless about the way they were speaking cryptically.

#62434
DarchAngelDavid

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Also you don't need to play multiplayer to get the best ending. I have never played it and I have the best ending by using the app on my iPhone. I use it one or twice a day to keep my GRR at 100%.

#62435
Ticonderoga117

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DarchAngelDavid wrote...

Also you don't need to play multiplayer to get the best ending. I have never played it and I have the best ending by using the app on my iPhone. I use it one or twice a day to keep my GRR at 100%.


No iphone, no app.

#62436
weirdnerd

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no the app is now on android

still the app is "pay money so you dont have to care about mp"

#62437
Ticonderoga117

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weirdnerd wrote...

no the app is now on android

still the app is "pay money so you dont have to care about mp"


Ok, no smartphone, no app. Rage.

Edit: Top of Page Tali
Image IPB

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 11 juin 2012 - 07:05 .


#62438
Ryuji2

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Posting this again for great justice. Also I would like opinions on it n' all that jazz. Newest chapter of a Tali fanfic Revan and I are writing.

http://social.biowar...05/blog/213740/

Modifié par Ryuji2, 11 juin 2012 - 08:16 .


#62439
Nozzivix

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 I'll admit, the multiplayer is annoying sometimes, but at least we get new content every once in a while for free, plus it's rather well done, doesn't play like it's tacked on either.
Now, back on topic.
TALI FOR THE PEOPLE 

Image IPB

#62440
Bahroo3

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Nozzivix wrote...

 I'll admit, the multiplayer is annoying sometimes, but at least we get new content every once in a while for free, plus it's rather well done, doesn't play like it's tacked on either.
Now, back on topic.
TALI FOR THE PEOPLE 

Image IPB


Hey wait a minute.....   I thought Drell were not Dextro? Why is Thane drinking Tali's drink?

#62441
Nozzivix

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Bahroo3 wrote...

Hey wait a minute.....   I thought Drell were not Dextro? Why is Thane drinking Tali's drink?

He's already dying, maybe he's willing to risk an allergic reaction?

#62442
Grand Champion

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I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.

Image IPB

#62443
Ticonderoga117

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Wertom Three wrote...

I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.

Image IPB


I see that, and raise you:
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

#62444
Grand Champion

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.
*robosnip*


I see that, and raise you:
*notfairsnip*


How about this?

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Modifié par Wertom Three, 11 juin 2012 - 08:30 .


#62445
Ticonderoga117

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Wertom Three wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.
*robosnip*


I see that, and raise you:
*notfairsnip*


How about this?

*cowgirlsnip*


Image IPB

#62446
Grand Champion

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.
*robosnip*


I see that, and raise you:
*notfairsnip*


How about this?

*cowgirlsnip*


*britishsnip*


The day is mine

Image IPB

#62447
Anubis722

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Wertom Three wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

I don't think Tali is the weakest party member.
*robosnip*


I see that, and raise you:
*notfairsnip*


How about this?

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing


Cowgirl Tali i like it.

#62448
Ticonderoga117

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Wertom Three wrote...
The day is mine

*rainbowsnip*


Curses! Foiled again!

#62449
Pride Demon

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exelsis wrote...
Batarians in the terminus and traverse, they are hit first. Rannoch should be in the right side of the traverse, which should get hit by the reapers BEFORE earth, unless the reapers are loons who have an invasion front the width of a solar system. Thessia and the salarians are in the inner council area, which means they get hit LAST, along with the humans. Really, you should be able to go right from mars to rannoch, as it should have been attacked by reapers already. Then tuchanka and the turians get hit, in the blue area. Makes sense from a tactical standpoint that the quarians would need assistance before or at the same time as the turians, both of which should get hit BEFORE earth, unless the reapers are complete fools.


Image IPB

Batarian home systems (Kite's Nest cluster you visit in ME3) are beyond the Skyllian Verge, that is in the bottom right corner of the map. That's where the Reapers came from...

The fact the Galaxy at War map classifies it as EAS is either a mistake or a simplification given the Batarian Hegemony no longer exists (and neither does Batarian space), however if you look closely, there is a small inner division, some sort of rectangular shape, that was probably the delimitation of the original Batarian Space. Inner Council Space has those subdivision too (a small chunk on the left for the krogan DMZ, a southern block which is turian space and a nothern block that is salarian space...

The reapers are spreading "scouting parties" here and there as the story proceeds, but the main force is coming from the bottom right and making its way to top left, prioritizing hits on homeworlds, that's no contradiction...

That said, I read a report some time ago from someone claiming Tali had dialogue for the Tuchanka bomb mission somewhere in the game files, said mission by the time you get Tali is permanently unavailable. So, if that person was telling the truth, either a few missions were thought with longer "lifespans" or Tali was originally going to be recruited pre "Priority Tuchanka".

#62450
Nozzivix

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 More Tali.
Image IPB