69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Tom80]

Guys, please don't start that argument again.......

Modifié par Tom80, 19 juin 2012 - 06:34 .

[JustOneGuy]

Edolix wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Like I said, I'm not going to argue, there's enough evidences to do the arguing/talking for me. Its just up to people to either accept or not.

As I said earlier...

Maleshep = Straight Tali
Femshep = Tali is bi/gay for femshep. (possibly/likely only for femshep)

So for all your malesheps, you have nothing to worry about, femshep don't exist in your "universe".

Although I'm not sure why you would be worried about Tali being bi in a alt universe.. it's not like "bi/gay" is a disease and will infect yours..

Now i'm getting the impression that you've just refused to read any of my posts. Sigh...

Terror, I honestly have no problems with you wanting a bisexual Tali. I really don't. What gripes me is that you have to wave the "Tali IS bisexual" banner around as if it is an actual fact. It isn't.

"I'd like Tali to be bisexual" or "In my opinion, Tali should have been bisexual" is completely reasonable. But "TALI IS BISEXUAL, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG WHY DON'T YOU SEE" is obnoxious, irritating and in all honesty is the only reason i've been provoked into arguing with you.

Edolix, obiously YOU did not read Terrorizes posts... If you did, you would have noticed that he never said that Tali is generally BI ! He always said that in Maleshep games she's 100% Hetero. Femshep made Tali BI with her actions!

[weirdnerd]

Edolix wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Like I said, I'm not going to argue, there's enough evidences to do the arguing/talking for me. Its just up to people to either accept or not.

As I said earlier...

Maleshep = Straight Tali
Femshep = Tali is bi/gay for femshep. (possibly/likely only for femshep)

So for all your malesheps, you have nothing to worry about, femshep don't exist in your "universe".

Although I'm not sure why you would be worried about Tali being bi in a alt universe.. it's not like "bi/gay" is a disease and will infect yours..

Now i'm getting the impression that you've just refused to read any of my posts. Sigh...

Terror, I honestly have no problems with you wanting a bisexual Tali. I really don't. What gripes me is that you have to wave the "Tali IS bisexual" banner around as if it is an actual fact. It isn't.

"I'd like Tali to be bisexual" or "In my opinion, Tali should have been bisexual" is completely reasonable. But "TALI IS BISEXUAL, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG WHY DON'T YOU SEE" is obnoxious, irritating and in all honesty is the only reason i've been provoked into arguing with you.

edolix, you must be new here, you cant win an argument against terror so please just stop trying and ignore terror

[DirtySHISN0]

I don't quite understand the argument. One of you is arguing that it's a fact Tali is straight in a male shep game and the other is arguing that its not a fact in a femshep playthrough. No sh*t.

Opinion. Word of the day.

[Terrorize69]

^ Spot on Shisno (lol if only aliens called human's Shisno's in ME..)

@weirdnerd, you know... i'm sig'in that, for all eternity

[Edolix]

Terrorize69 wrote...

You too eh, I got that impression of you a few pages back, blatantly ignoring all evidence and blindly dismissing other peoples views and opinions.

If thats what you think I'm saying you obviously havn't read my posts.

I read all of your posts. I'm not dismissing any of your views either. If that's the impression you got from my posts, I assure you that wasn't my intention.

Fact, Shepards gender is not canon. So Maleshepard and Tali is at most only 50/50 chance of being canon.

Whats canon in my game, isn't canon in yours and vise versa.

Yes, this is true. But you're trying to "canonize" something that doesn't even happen in the game. And before you start going on about the "evidence":

So you out rightly dismissing my claim and the claim of others, aswell as evidence.

I addressed your evidence several posts back. This argument is going in circles. Let's stop.

weirdnerd wrote...

edolix, you must be new here, you cant win an argument against terror so please just stop trying and ignore terror

I know, right? I feel like i'm bashing my head against a brick wall. I'm mentally exhausted right now, he's too damn stubborn.

[WizenSlinky0]

Terrorize69 wrote...

You too eh, I got that impression of you a few pages back, blatantly ignoring all evidence and blindly dismissing other peoples views and opinions. Like being shown a picture of an apple and still saying it's an orange.

If thats what you think I'm saying you obviously havn't read my posts.

So let me just tell you something about canon/fact.

Fact, Shepards gender is not canon. So Maleshepard and Tali is at most only 50/50 chance of being canon.

Whats canon in my game, isn't canon in yours and vise versa.

So you out rightly dismissing my claim and the claim of others, aswell as evidence. Base sorely apon your Shepard's universe is "obnoxious and irritating"

Evidence is not factual. It is something that can be used to attempt to support a position but no amount of "evidence" can replace actual fact. Evidence is meant to be taken and then approved/rejected as a hypothesis based on it.

You're not giving a view or opinion. You're presenting a factual statement, "Tali is bisexual", not an opinion "I think tali is bisexual". There's a very large difference and you've been nothing except insulting to those who have disagreed with you, essentially calling them both homophobes and ignorant for not using your evidence as fact (which are two different things).

While I heavily support the multi-verse that is the multiple-protagonist phenomneon in choice based games we must still create each individual story based on the information given. And while you can certainly say "My tali is bisexual", as it's a projection of your own interpretations and individual story, you cannot say the Tali character is bisexual as a hard-fact.

It really doesn't matter to me if she is or isn't. However, I am very vocal about not presenting a hypothesis or opinion as pure fact. I'm not even claiming she isn't bisexual. I'm only claiming that based on the evidence it is not a fact. It is a position, an opinion, a hypothesis, that has evidence that must be accepted or rejected based on its merit. But even if you accept that evidence it doesn't make a fact.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 19 juin 2012 - 07:06 .

[Terrorize69]

Must... resist.. using it...

*struggles*

No I can't dooo it! It's KAIDAN TIME!



To put this all in a very simple and clear way, If you romance Kaidan on Femshep, is he gay?

[Tom80]

-sigh-

Let's see how long it goes this time....

[WizenSlinky0]

Terrorize69 wrote...

To put this all in a very simple and clear way, If you romance Kaidan on Femshep, is he gay?

The objective interpretation would be bisexual, or having bisexual tendencies if he hasn't explored them in a femshep story.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 19 juin 2012 - 07:14 .

[Edolix]

He's not gay, he's bisexual. Because we know he will happily romance Mshep.

Is this a trick question?    


EDIT: Wizen is putting all of this into words much better then I can. I need a break from BSN, i'm thoroughly steamed out lol

Modifié par Edolix, 19 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[DirtySHISN0]

[WizenSlinky0]

Edolix wrote...
EDIT: Wizen is putting all of this into words much better then I can. I need a break from BSN, i'm thoroughly steamed out lol

When I get my serious face on I tend to be prone to wordy interpretations, analysis, and discussion.

[Terrorize69]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

You too eh, I got that impression of you a few pages back, blatantly ignoring all evidence and blindly dismissing other peoples views and opinions. Like being shown a picture of an apple and still saying it's an orange.

If thats what you think I'm saying you obviously havn't read my posts.

So let me just tell you something about canon/fact.

Fact, Shepards gender is not canon. So Maleshepard and Tali is at most only 50/50 chance of being canon.

Whats canon in my game, isn't canon in yours and vise versa.

So you out rightly dismissing my claim and the claim of others, aswell as evidence. Base sorely apon your Shepard's universe is "obnoxious and irritating"

Evidence is not factual. It is something that can be used to attempt to support a position but no amount of "evidence" can replace actual fact. Evidence is meant to be taken and then approved/rejected as a hypothesis based on it.

You're not giving a view or opinion. You're presenting a factual statement, "Tali is bisexual", not an opinion "I think tali is bisexual". There's a very large difference and you've been nothing except insulting to those who have disagreed with you, essentially calling them both homophobes and ignorant for not using your evidence as fact (which are two different things).

While I heavily support the multi-verse that is the multiple-protagonist phenomneon in choice based games we must still create each individual story based on the information given. And while you can certainly say "My tali is bisexual", as it's a projection of your own interpretations and individual story, you cannot say the Tali character is bisexual as a hard-fact.

It really doesn't matter to me if she is or isn't. However, I am very vocal about not presenting a hypothesis or opinion as pure fact. I'm not even claiming she isn't bisexual. I'm only claiming that based on the evidence it is not a fact. It is a position, an opinion, a hypothesis, that has evidence that must be accepted or rejected based on its merit. But even if you accept that evidence it doesn't make a fact.

By your logic, the fact we don't see Shepard return to Earth in the start of Me3, mean's it doesn't happen, as that would be a hypothesis despite the evidence. So yeah... ok then, to the next point.

I've given it as a view/opinon, clearly you've not read my post's or didn't understand them and quickly jumped to "defend Tali's honor", so yeah, I won't both with the second half of that statement, since you failed to grasp the meaning of the worlds, "could be bi for femshep" and use it as me being insulting.

Did I say it was a hard-fact? No. Again, you've not read my posts. Try again, actually read the whole arguement before complaining.

Would help if you actually read my posts before being vocal. Your entire post seems to be based around the fact that you've skimmed my posts at the very most. Refusing to take anything in.

[Terrorize69]

Edolix wrote...

He's not gay, he's bisexual. Because we know he will happily romance Mshep.

Is this a trick question?    


EDIT: Wizen is putting all of this into words much better then I can. I need a break from BSN, i'm thoroughly steamed out lol

Nope not a trick question, it's another example of a character whos sexuality differs based on the gender of Shepard.

Nothing in a femshep play through will lead you to believe Kaidan is gay (unless you judge by looks etc, but then... yeah, no.)

So Kaidan is 100% hetero in a Femshep game. In Malesheps game, he expresses a desire for him. As far as we know, only for maleshep, do we say "Oh its a bug, he's not really meant to romance MaleShep, it's left over text meant for femshep only." No, we don't. (The fact they get a s/s s*x scene also helps to clear this up)

The same is similar for Tali, both have sexuality's which can/may differ depending on how you interact with them. The only difference is, we don't have/see (thats not cut) a sex scene with Femshep and Tali.

My interpretation of Tali's sexuality, come's all from ingame sources. If I was to include cut material then well, case closed. But in fairness, I would bet even if those scenes weren't cut, some people would still deny it..   

I choose to read "such and such" evidence this way, that is why I said "could at least be gay for femshep"

[Nozzivix]

 Oh for ****s sake, this argument is back.

[Maggot4ever]

Nozzivix wrote...

 Oh for ****s sake, this argument is back.

I kinda lol'ed, but I agree.

[Terrorize69]

This is the topic, and we are on it.

Anyway, preemptive strike.

For whatever reason people are misreading my posts, intentionally or not. I'll summarize my point to make it clear.

Using the material given in game, it is fair to form the view that Tali could be bi for FemShep. This view is an entirely viable interpretation of what we can see and what we are told, it's not 100% canon as it can be taken other ways if you really can't see otherwise, but it's by no means sorely headcanon. While in a MaleSheps game, this material doesn't exist so for all we know in those games, shes 100% hetero.

[Edolix]

Terrorize69 wrote...
Using the material given in game, it is fair to form the view that Tali could be bi for FemShep. This view is an entirely viable interpretation of what we can see and what we are told, it's not 100% canon as it can be taken other ways if you really can't see otherwise, but it's by no means sorely headcanon. While in a MaleSheps game, this material doesn't exist so for all we know in those games, shes 100% hetero.

Ahhh...If only you had posted this statement beforehand, then that argument would never have happened. This is the sort of thing I was looking for from you, Terror.



On a side note, I noticed that the only thing that seems to get this thread moving these days are arguments - whether it's about Tali's face, her sexuality, w/e. When these debates flare up, they manage to eat up at least a couple of pages in about an hour. When they die down, things go back to about a post every hour or two (if we're lucky).
It's kinda sad, really.

I often wish you Tali-room folks would post here more often. I know some of you guys still pop in here occasionally (Terror, forthary, darthrevan) but many of you haven't even posted here at all since the Tali-room was created. I understand the need to have a place where you can go off-topic, but to completely abandon the thread?

I was largely a lurker until you guys moved off. I only started posting in order to get things moving a little, as the inactivity was a little...mmph, saddening.

Modifié par Edolix, 19 juin 2012 - 08:52 .

[JesseLee202]

I must resist...

[DirtySHISN0]

Edolix wrote...

I was largely a lurker until you guys moved off. I only started posting in order to get things moving a little, as the inactivity was a little...mmph, saddening.

This. There was a time when i started lurking, i couldn't keep up with the thread.

[exelsis]

This. Lots going on in it. Including tendril haired and sorta fanged quarians.

Modifié par exelsis, 19 juin 2012 - 08:58 .

[Terrorize69]

Meh, I did say it Just not in that order, kinda posting the middle then the end and the start, over a few pages Cause you know, puzzles are awesome lol.

Arguments are the whole point of forums lol, they would never move if everyone agreed and the same view.

As for the Tali-room well, it's not that we don't pop here. It's just theres little else to discuss, without going off-topic heavily, thus breaking rules etc. I on the other hand, am everywhere o__o If you catch a glimpse of something in the mirror, just for a second, that's me. It's always me.

[JesseLee202]

I joined shortly after me2's release so I could get the Dr. Pepper DLC... I then went into hiding until after ME3 was released.

[Edolix]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Edolix wrote...

I was largely a lurker until you guys moved off. I only started posting in order to get things moving a little, as the inactivity was a little...mmph, saddening.

This. There was a time when i started lurking, i couldn't keep up with the thread.

I know! Back then, it flew by at least 30 pages a day! There's a reason why this thread has more pages then Miranda, the VS's and Liara.

I honestly didn't mind the impossible task of keeping up though; it was great watching you guys banter and everything, many lols were had.