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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*


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#6476
Errationatus

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DoNotIngest wrote...

Ah, yes, baleen, it's perfect! I knew there was something overtly whalish about those Quarians... Hell, now she can brush Shep's teeth during makeout sessions.



On a serious note, catlike, anyone? Maybe it's the glowing eyes, enhanced night vision and pouncing, but at least those back up canines, cartiledge-and-skin type mammal predatory ears, and some retractable claws.


Evolution shapes animals in direct proportion to their environment.  Clues to quarians'appearance should be looked for by examining Rannoch.  What's it like?  How did a lack of insect life shape how quarians adapted?    Flowering plants shape how insects look, how they act - even how they see (a flower does not look the same way to a bee as it does to you and me), even to how they avoid and detect predators that use plants and flowers to snare them.

So too would their homeworld shape them. Three hundred years is not enough time to change them radically via natural evolution.  Minor adapations, sure, but nothing major.

So - what is known about Rannoch's environment?  It'd be a good place to start, and give a decent grounding for any speculation.

Just a suggestion, if it's not come up before.

#6477
T.Attwood

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JakeMacDon wrote...
Evolution shapes animals in direct proportion to their environment.  Clues to quarians'appearance should be looked for by examining Rannoch.  What's it like?  How did a lack of insect life shape how quarians adapted?    Flowering plants shape how insects look, how they act - even how they see (a flower does not look the same way to a bee as it does to you and me), even to how they avoid and detect predators that use plants and flowers to snare them.

So too would their homeworld shape them. Three hundred years is not enough time to change them radically via natural evolution.  Minor adapations, sure, but nothing major.

So - what is known about Rannoch's environment?  It'd be a good place to start, and give a decent grounding for any speculation.

Just a suggestion, if it's not come up before.

I personally haven't seen much info regarding Rannoch (I think a screen-shot or concept art exists somewhere, but that is about it).

(Based on only a limited knowledge, and logical assumptions) I don't think a lack of insect life would change things all that much. I see insects as purely another organism. Plants can't move around like limbed creatures, and so need help in the form of pollenation from another organism as their way of sexual reproduction. I think as long as some method exists for this, (maybe even Quarian's themselves perform the task indirectly as a carrier for pollen), then bees (or other insects) don't have to exist. However, there are a few problems with this: insects provide a source of food for larger organisms. Simply removing them has an effect on the food chain (It would be interesting to see how this is coped with on Rannoch). Also, (as someone pointed out to me a while ago) bee's use pollen as food, and so this limits the size of anything that uses pollen, as their food source is limited.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 05 octobre 2011 - 12:10 .


#6478
HellBovine

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JakeMacDon wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

Ah, yes, baleen, it's perfect! I knew there was something overtly whalish about those Quarians... Hell, now she can brush Shep's teeth during makeout sessions.



On a serious note, catlike, anyone? Maybe it's the glowing eyes, enhanced night vision and pouncing, but at least those back up canines, cartiledge-and-skin type mammal predatory ears, and some retractable claws.


Evolution shapes animals in direct proportion to their environment.  Clues to quarians'appearance should be looked for by examining Rannoch.  What's it like?  How did a lack of insect life shape how quarians adapted?    Flowering plants shape how insects look, how they act - even how they see (a flower does not look the same way to a bee as it does to you and me), even to how they avoid and detect predators that use plants and flowers to snare them.

So too would their homeworld shape them. Three hundred years is not enough time to change them radically via natural evolution.  Minor adapations, sure, but nothing major.

So - what is known about Rannoch's environment?  It'd be a good place to start, and give a decent grounding for any speculation.

Just a suggestion, if it's not come up before.


Doesn't necessarily have to be much different based on lacking insects, there are plenty of other species who could do the job of pollination. Our plants got by just fine before even developing flowers, and after developing them plenty of animals other than insects took the job. Birds, lizards, bats, rodents are known pollinators for us, I'm sure some sort of anologue would make use of the free food that flowers provide.

#6479
Nashiktal

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You are underestimating how big insects have shaped life today. Insects have been around since about the silurian period.

While other animals can do the jobs, the plants and animals are not as adapted to them as much as insects. Would the woodpecker be the same without insects to adapt the beak for? Would the flytrappers even exist? Without bee's many plants would not even exist right now, they would be completely different and probably not nearly as widespread.

A plant adapted to attract bee's would look much different to a plant adapted to attract say... Varren.

#6480
HellBovine

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Nashiktal wrote...

You are underestimating how big insects have shaped life today. Insects have been around since about the silurian period.

While other animals can do the jobs, the plants and animals are not as adapted to them as much as insects. Would the woodpecker be the same without insects to adapt the beak for? Would the flytrappers even exist? Without bee's many plants would not even exist right now, they would be completely different and probably not nearly as widespread.

A plant adapted to attract bee's would look much different to a plant adapted to attract say... Varren.


Now we don't know enough about Rannoch to speculate as to exact details, I simply said that niches are always going to be exploited if they are available, regardless whether insects are better adapted on our planet.

Small animals are always best adapated to be pollinators, only they recieve enough energy from pollen to be able to sustain themselves solely upon it. The fact of the matter if a niche is open it will be used. Modern plants on our planet have co-evolved with bees, but the first were primarily pollinated by beetles. If flowering plants were a beneficial trait for plants on Rannoch, they would require some sort of small creatures devoted to exploiting the resources.

We obviously cannot expect all creatures to have a Rannoch counterpart, some species like Woodpeckers and carnivorous plants are evolved specifically to consume one type of organism, Rannoch's predators would be adapted to consuming whatever primary consumers were available.

#6481
HellBovine

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Oops, somehow doubleposted.

Modifié par HellBovine, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:41 .


#6482
DoNotIngest

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Nashiktal wrote...

You are underestimating how big insects have shaped life today. Insects have been around since about the silurian period.

While other animals can do the jobs, the plants and animals are not as adapted to them as much as insects. Would the woodpecker be the same without insects to adapt the beak for? Would the flytrappers even exist? Without bee's many plants would not even exist right now, they would be completely different and probably not nearly as widespread.

A plant adapted to attract bee's would look much different to a plant adapted to attract say... Varren.



A plant shaped like Fishdogs Incorporated Tastee Bites?

And was I the only one to read that as "...Salarian period"?



Anyways, regardless of the impact from lack of insects, Quarians are definitely not built like vegetarians. They look more predatory than humans to me, so I'm betting anything from typical omnivore to carnivore with some some greens thrown in.


EDIT: And I call *pounce* to the stand as my first witness. Shepard is quite the illusive prey.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .


#6483
PhantomSpectre

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aiDvEoN wrote...

Ok, that strip was win. Similar territory to valley girl quarian, skewering the tendency of some fans to view Tali as part of the whole "ill girl" archetype, especially pre ME2. She's well aware of her physical limitations and handicaps thank you, treating her like she's made of porcelain in matters of physical intimacy is just plain insulting when she comes ground side with you and gets SHOT AT on a regular basis.


I agree.

Though you could say that it's a little bit different to get shot, which will made relatively small fracture in her suit than to remove the whole suit because of intimate moment. Of course this still doesn't mean that Tali is made of porcelain. But it does mean that they both need to more careful and be prepared for it, if only to minimalize any harmful issues (for Tali's sake).

#6484
Webkahve

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Tali art, link
Posted Image

#6485
CommanderBadass

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Tali Was my favorite me3 Romance, her trial left me thinking, should I clear her, or let her be exiled.......Regardless, I will never ever...EVER romance anyone other than Ms.Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy.

#6486
Errationatus

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T.Attwood wrote...

I personally haven't seen much info regarding Rannoch (I think a screen-shot or concept art exists somewhere, but that is about it).

(Based on only a limited knowledge, and logical assumptions) I don't think a lack of insect life would change things all that much.


Well, humans have a hard time seeing past their own wee-wees and the swinging of said wee-wees, but plants are slightly more hyper-important to life on this planet than we are.  They have shaped animal life to astounding degrees, in many instances plants have directed insect evolution, down to points where some plants and insects are so specialized they cannot survive without each other.  Rain forests are the lungs of Earth, and produce the majority of the oxygen we breathe.  They were colonizing the surface of this planet almost half-a billion years before animal life showed up - and the first land animals were insects.  That primal relationship drives all animal life on this planet - down to our own food sources.  Any animal that needs to take over that symbiosis is going to change in significant ways, given enough time.

I see insects as purely another organism. Plants can't move around like limbed creatures, and so need help in the form of pollenation from another organism as their way of sexual reproduction.


True and true, unless Rannochian plants can get about on their own - and Earth flora can actually move - just not quickly.  But then, if you don't need to rush, why would you?

I think as long as some method exists for this, (maybe even Quarian's themselves perform the task indirectly as a carrier for pollen), then bees (or other insects) don't have to exist.


Well, without insect life from the get-go, there'd be nothing indirect about the quarians' part in pollination.  Either they are very late arrivals in Rannoch's animal evolution (not impossible, given their penchant for being allergic to pretty much everything - even on Rannoch), or they are essential to the process.  Personally I'm leaning to the "late-to-the-game" myself.

However, there are a few problems with this: insects provide a source of food for larger organisms. Simply removing them has an effect on the food chain (It would be interesting to see how this is coped with on Rannoch).


Indeed.  The insect niche could be taken up by small creatures - mice or shrew -sized creatures that are responsible for the majority of pollination, and are a primary food source for other animals.  Quarians could also eat them, and they could still be useful to the plants by doing what birds and herbivores do on Earth with ingested seeds.  Of course, if quarians are more lizard-like (give them a tail and them hips make more sense - think velociraptor-like), then they might possibly be more about small-critter-eating and less about pollination.

Also, (as someone pointed out to me a while ago) bee's use pollen as food, and so this limits the size of anything that uses pollen, as their food source is limited.


True, but pollen is a high-energy food, and when both your body and brain are tiny, you don't need the all-beef patties and deep-fried butter.

#6487
Errationatus

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HellBovine wrote...

Doesn't necessarily have to be much different based on lacking insects, there are plenty of other species who could do the job of pollination. Our plants got by just fine before even developing flowers, and after developing them plenty of animals other than insects took the job. Birds, lizards, bats, rodents are known pollinators for us, I'm sure some sort of anologue would make use of the free food that flowers provide.


There's no free lunch.  True on the birds, etc. 

Given quarians' appearance - which can easily be seen as reptilian without much stretching - how are you on the idea that quarians are more reptile-based than not?  It eliminates hair, but keeps the quill/feather covering possible - and there are some pretty reptiles out there.  ;)

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 05 octobre 2011 - 08:54 .


#6488
Errationatus

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Collider wrote...

What, you got a problem with baleens?


Who, me?  Nope.  Eatcher damn krill anyway you want!  Comb it or crunch it, I'm not here to judge.

#6489
DoNotIngest

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JakeMacDon wrote...

HellBovine wrote...

Doesn't necessarily have to be much different based on lacking insects, there are plenty of other species who could do the job of pollination. Our plants got by just fine before even developing flowers, and after developing them plenty of animals other than insects took the job. Birds, lizards, bats, rodents are known pollinators for us, I'm sure some sort of anologue would make use of the free food that flowers provide.


There's no free lunch.  True on the birds, etc. 

Given quarians' appearance - which is can easily be seen as reptilian without much stretching - how are you on the idea that quarians are more reptile-based than not?  It eliminates hair, but keeps the quill/feather covering possible - and there are some pretty reptiles out there.  ;)




It's been made *painfully* clear that Quarians are mammals. And I don't mean that as in it's a bad thing. I mean it's in the damn Codex, maybe even in conversation. And there's never been a reptile in history with quills.


But yes, reptiles are pretty.




EDIT: Actually, pretty sure it's been said that Quarians are the *only* other mammalian race that we've seen to date. Which makes me wonder what the heck Elcor are.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 05 octobre 2011 - 08:56 .


#6490
Dethklokx7

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Cheese of Borg wrote...

Dethklokx7 wrote...

What if Tali had a "clean room" as her private quarters to walk around freely without the suit (If they ever decided to reveal her face or not in which I personally am fine with either decision) Then again she probably prefer to sleep in the engine room LOL


I can't imagene Bioware going from in a suit in helemet to walking around nude... but it would be nice.... :?


Does anyone know where to get that Quarian font?

Oh for crying out loud I didnt mean that! >_< I meant normal clothes instead of the suit and mask! One place to feel somewhat normal. *Sigh* again point withdrawn

#6491
CommanderBadass

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that'd actually be a good Idea for a "clean Room" for tali, We could finally interact with her and see past the helmet, see her, although I fell for her personality, the way she turned to greet me, the shyness, I never got that from miranda. Miranda, was casual and took it as a one night stand. I want Something long term for my Male Shepard. I want him to retire on a beach house with tali if plausible, or Live with his love interest, Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy, after Kickin' Ass in the War against the Reapers,

#6492
Dethklokx7

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perhaps in one of the endings you do get the "house on the homeworld" type epilogue or something

#6493
CommanderBadass

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Besides, little is known about Quarian Physiology, and what is known isn't much so Rannoch would be a good place to start. IF it was a place that you could visit in ME3, But I'm guessing the Migrant Fleet is going to be the place to go to rally the Quarians to Shepard's Cause, and Thus, who better to ask about Quarian Physiology than Tali. or Dr.Mordin Solus. Tali's face isn't known, so what? She is still Tali. now, how about someone help me compose a Psychological Profile using what we know about her so far?

#6494
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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DoNotIngest wrote...

EDIT: Actually, pretty sure it's been said that Quarians are the *only* other mammalian race that we've seen to date. Which makes me wonder what the heck Elcor are.

Wait, so what are asari? They seem like mammals to me, even with the squid heads.

#6495
Dethklokx7

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And Im fine whether or not her face is shown. Maybe a "special" ending reveal that requires certain gameplay choice i.e. Mordin alive, Tali not banished, Quarian/Geth peace, etc. But then again some people might not like that.

#6496
Quole

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Tali is exiled for me. I wonder if that means that she will be with me from the beginning?

#6497
CommanderBadass

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God, I hope so. What does Keelah'selai Mean?

#6498
Sudsaroo

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CommanderBadass wrote...

God, I hope so. What does Keelah'selai Mean?

Probably something spiritual like "God bless".

#6499
Runescapeguy9

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CommanderBadass wrote...

God, I hope so. What does Keelah'selai Mean?

A customary greeting or farewell. Could possibly be translated as "God be with you" or "Go with peace."

#6500
CommanderBadass

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I wonder how her experiences have shaped her Psycology?
Also how is Keelah'Selai actually written?

Modifié par CommanderBadass, 05 octobre 2011 - 10:41 .