69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Not a fan of the Talisploitation either. I mean, to each their own and all, but sexualizing her largely eliminates what makes her unique compared to most of the other female characters.

[DoNotIngest]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Not a fan of the Talisploitation either. I mean, to each their own and all, but sexualizing her largely eliminates what makes her unique compared to most of the other female characters.

So... Am I the only one who laughed my ass off at the engine room/beach pics? I suppose I should feel offended, but they were just so ridiculous because of the whole suit thing being a major shaper of Tali's character.

[T.Attwood]

DoNotIngest wrote...

So... Am I the only one who laughed my ass off at the engine room/beach pics? I suppose I should feel offended, but they were just so ridiculous because of the whole suit thing being a major shaper of Tali's character.

Yeah, i'm surprised the artist didn't change the title at the bottom of the pic to "Ass Effect"!

DaftArbiter wrote...
Not a fan of the Talisploitation either. I mean, to each their own and all, but sexualizing her largely eliminates what makes her unique compared to most of the other female characters.

Indeed. The recent statue of Liara that was developed by the artist Kotobukiya (as seen under the 'photos' section of the 'Mass Effect 2' Facebook page) is an example of what can go wrong when someone doesn't understand the fan-base. Thankfully, he didn't do a statue of Tali. I think there would have been a huge amount of abuse thrown at him if he had created something in a similar vein for Tali (and by the looks of the response, the Liara statue didn't go down too well either).

Modifié par T.Attwood, 09 octobre 2011 - 04:15 .

[sites32]

Tali's personality is what drew me and many others to adore her character. She may have issues with her immune system but that doesn't make her a delicate flower that should be treated as such, thats bull****. Tali is strong and proud of her people and would die to protect them, exiled or not. Just give her a weapon and a drone and see what a delicate flower can do.

[Errationatus]

Collider wrote...

If people are letting their enjoyment of a character diminish because of the fandom, that's their own problem.

Let me put it this way: 

It's hard to share that enjoyment if you drop by to discuss and everyone else is engaged in a giant circle jerk.  Personally, I've only romanced her twice in my various run-throughs.  As I've said elsewhere, to me, it's like hitting on your buddy's nerdy little sister.  The feeling doesn't change just because she got contacts and filled out.  Tempting, but ultimately serious douchebaggery.

Of course, a rather huge chunk of her appeal is the fact that she's so virginial.  We say we like mature, worldly women, but we get to break Tali in and ain't dat delicious?  That's the otaku fetish, that anime view where all the girls look and sound twelve and have 40 DD's.  Get your cake and eat it too, and they can say that's not the reason, but where else is all this masturabatory slobber coming from?

Most disturbing, more than the fans simply content enough to gush irrationally over a character, are the people so upset and insecure as to insult people over their choice of favorite character in a videogame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people on BSN, and they tend to bring down the experience for everyone.

Indeed, but that's not what I'm doing. Pointing out that a huge chunk of Tali fans are rather working that creep factor is simply pointing out a basic fact. 

No other female character in Mass Effect has this kind of fandom.  So, from whence does this popularity stem? 

Because, frankly, as characters go in this game, Tali's not that awesome. She doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and the thngs she is given responsibility for - finding Vee'tor and extracting data on Haestrom - she fails miserably at, if you're counting bodies left in her wake.

The one thing she does is fulfil is the Kari Byronesque nerdy geeky girl thing;  if you take away the fact that we ride in knight-like to save her - twice - then discover that she's been saving it for us and we get to pop some quarian cherry as the icing on the cake, the salivating over her would vanish overnight. 

If Tali was the worldly mature type and not the squeaky virgin type, this lip-smacking hand-jobbery would not be so omnipresent, and I challenge any ardent Talifan to present her virtues aside from her physical and virginial appeal, or is her ability to hack AI and clean the ship's engine really that boner-inducing?

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but if you think her fanbase doesn't affect how people perceive her, you're being naive.  I know people who won't admit to even liking her in passing because they're afraid of being labeled as creepy, because that is the general perception of what it is to be a Tali fan. 

And that's entirely the problem of the Talimancers.

[Errationatus]

DoNotIngest wrote...

I think I know what you're getting at, Jake. Tali *is* a lot like Jesus.

Only betterer.

Well, I'd believe in Tali a lot quicker, sure. 

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Knock it off, guys. This is why most of the people who used to post in the original threads don't come here anymore.

Thanks Rune, I was just waiting for it to tide over.

So I have started imagining quarians (and Tali of course) with a silver/metallic kind of skin tone... Thoughts?

Edit: Jake, I am a straight woman and I love Tali as a character. Quit throwing around stereotypes please.

Modifié par Tasha vas Nar Rayya, 09 octobre 2011 - 04:50 .

[lShepardl]

she is awesome i want a romance with her in Mass Effect 3
she is the best character is this game imho

[Xilizhra]

If Tali was the worldly mature type and not the squeaky virgin type, this lip-smacking hand-jobbery would not be so omnipresent, and I challenge any ardent Talifan to present her virtues aside from her physical and virginial appeal, or is her ability to hack AI and clean the ship's engine really that boner-inducing?

I'm not an ardent Talifan as such, but she's very intelligent, passionately devoted to her people yet not so dogmatic that she can't move past racial hatreds, keeps her major dislike of Cerberus intact, all in all has a good sense of humor, and so on. The only reason I don't romance her is because Liara got to me first and I'm not even sure if I'll ever be able to.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but if you think her fanbase doesn't affect how people perceive her, you're being naive. I know people who won't admit to even liking her in passing because they're afraid of being labeled as creepy, because that is the general perception of what it is to be a Tali fan.

Which is regrettable, but you don't have to let the personal weaknesses and prejudices of other ignorant people prevent you from liking a character.

[Scourge king]

I love Tali and her personality. when she's nervous its cute if you think of it and adorable. thats what has attracted many people to like and even to love her. unfortunately like what Jake said that there are people that just masterbate to her for her body only.

Modifié par Scourge king, 09 octobre 2011 - 05:06 .

[aaron baba]

games.ign.com/articles/119/1198290p1.html

A rather good article on whether Tali's face should be revealed or not.
I have to agree with him; it's not about simply seeing her face, it's about the scene and how she'll express herself for the first time. Not just from Shepard screwing her.

[Xilizhra]

Scourge king wrote...

I love Tali and her personality. when she's nervous its cute if you think of it and adorable. thats what has attracted many people to like and even to love her. unfortunately like what Jake said that there are people that just masterbate to her for her body only.

\\
Probably most of them are ex-Liara fans who don't care about anyone's personality. They're ignorable, in my opinion.

[Quole]

Arcian wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Collider wrote...

If people are letting their enjoyment of a character diminish because of the fandom, that's their own problem.

Let me put it this way: 

It's hard to share that enjoyment if you drop by to discuss and everyone else is engaged in a giant circle jerk.  Personally, I've only romanced her twice in my various run-throughs.  As I've said elsewhere, to me, it's like hitting on your buddy's nerdy little sister.  The feeling doesn't change just because she got contacts and filled out.  Tempting, but ultimately serious douchebaggery.

Of course, a rather huge chunk of her appeal is the fact that she's so virginial.  We say we like mature, worldly women, but we get to break Tali in and ain't dat delicious?  That's the otaku fetish, that anime view where all the girls look and sound twelve and have 40 DD's.  Get your cake and eat it too, and they can say that's not the reason, but where else is all this masturabatory slobber coming from?

Most disturbing, more than the fans simply content enough to gush irrationally over a character, are the people so upset and insecure as to insult people over their choice of favorite character in a videogame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people on BSN, and they tend to bring down the experience for everyone.

Indeed, but that's not what I'm doing. Pointing out that a huge chunk of Tali fans are rather working that creep factor is simply pointing out a basic fact. 

No other female character in Mass Effect has this kind of fandom.  So, from whence does this popularity stem? 

Because, frankly, as characters go in this game, Tali's not that awesome. She doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and the thngs she is given responsibility for - finding Vee'tor and extracting data on Haestrom - she fails miserably at, if you're counting bodies left in her wake.

The one thing she does is fulfil is the Kari Byronesque nerdy geeky girl thing;  if you take away the fact that we ride in knight-like to save her - twice - then discover that she's been saving it for us and we get to pop some quarian cherry as the icing on the cake, the salivating over her would vanish overnight. 

If Tali was the worldly mature type and not the squeaky virgin type, this lip-smacking hand-jobbery would not be so omnipresent, and I challenge any ardent Talifan to present her virtues aside from her physical and virginial appeal, or is her ability to hack AI and clean the ship's engine really that boner-inducing?

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but if you think her fanbase doesn't affect how people perceive her, you're being naive.  I know people who won't admit to even liking her in passing because they're afraid of being labeled as creepy, because that is the general perception of what it is to be a Tali fan. 

And that's entirely the problem of the Talimancers.

Dude, you're officially my new bro.

I love how it never occurs to people that more fans means more `creepy` fans. No matter the character. Simple math is hard I guess.

As for the reasons why people like Tali. Really? You could say that about any character. If Miranda wasnt wearing that outfit and wasnt `engineered to be perfect,`  do you thing the character would be nearly as popular? I challenge any Miranda fan to say otherwise. See what I did there? You are saying as if people need specific reasons to like a character. Is Garrus` ability to calibrate what people like about him?
You could easily say that about any character. You simply choose to analyze Tali more because it annoys you that a character that you dont fully appreciate has so many fans.
You are simply listing reasons why they think the character is overrated, completely oblivious that everone likes different things, hence why you could make the same argument with multiple characters. When it comes down to it, hating on a group of fans because there are so many of them is just stupid.

Modifié par Quole, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:18 .

[DoNotIngest]

Scourge king wrote...

I love Tali and her personality. when she's nervous its cute if you think of it and adorable. thats what has attracted many people to like and even to love her. unfortunately like what Jake said that there are people that just masterbate to her for her body only.

...The way you said that makes it sound like any normal person, yourself especially, would be sitting there masterbating to Tali for not just her body, but personality.




Can... Can we just *please* pretend certain forumites aren't here? How about this, those... Wires, tubes, whatever that converge out of the back of the helmets for male Quarians (And probably females Beneath the Veil (Heh heh)), do you think it's for anything more than anomalous wires and tubes? 




EDIT: And really, there's usually only a few dozen people who post in a character thread, tops, consistent posters usually ten or less. It's a very small pool to judge from on the BSN what similarities Tali fans share if it's a fraction of a percentage that are vocal.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 09 octobre 2011 - 05:57 .

[sites32]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Knock it off, guys. This is why most of the people who used to post in the original threads don't come here anymore.

Thanks Rune, I was just waiting for it to tide over.

So I have started imagining quarians (and Tali of course) with a silver/metallic kind of skin tone... Thoughts?

Edit: Jake, I am a straight woman and I love Tali as a character. Quit throwing around stereotypes please.

I was thinking of that metallic skin tone as well. People just see purple or pink. Having no exposure to u.v. or any type of environmental effects has be a factor.

[RogueWriter3201]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Collider wrote...

If people are letting their enjoyment of a character diminish because of the fandom, that's their own problem.

Let me put it this way: 

It's hard to share that enjoyment if you drop by to discuss and everyone else is engaged in a giant circle jerk.  Personally, I've only romanced her twice in my various run-throughs.  As I've said elsewhere, to me, it's like hitting on your buddy's nerdy little sister.  The feeling doesn't change just because she got contacts and filled out.  Tempting, but ultimately serious douchebaggery.

Of course, a rather huge chunk of her appeal is the fact that she's so virginial.  We say we like mature, worldly women, but we get to break Tali in and ain't dat delicious?  That's the otaku fetish, that anime view where all the girls look and sound twelve and have 40 DD's.  Get your cake and eat it too, and they can say that's not the reason, but where else is all this masturabatory slobber coming from?

Most disturbing, more than the fans simply content enough to gush irrationally over a character, are the people so upset and insecure as to insult people over their choice of favorite character in a videogame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people on BSN, and they tend to bring down the experience for everyone.

Indeed, but that's not what I'm doing. Pointing out that a huge chunk of Tali fans are rather working that creep factor is simply pointing out a basic fact. 

No other female character in Mass Effect has this kind of fandom.  So, from whence does this popularity stem? 

Because, frankly, as characters go in this game, Tali's not that awesome. She doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and the thngs she is given responsibility for - finding Vee'tor and extracting data on Haestrom - she fails miserably at, if you're counting bodies left in her wake.

The one thing she does is fulfil is the Kari Byronesque nerdy geeky girl thing;  if you take away the fact that we ride in knight-like to save her - twice - then discover that she's been saving it for us and we get to pop some quarian cherry as the icing on the cake, the salivating over her would vanish overnight. 

If Tali was the worldly mature type and not the squeaky virgin type, this lip-smacking hand-jobbery would not be so omnipresent, and I challenge any ardent Talifan to present her virtues aside from her physical and virginial appeal, or is her ability to hack AI and clean the ship's engine really that boner-inducing?

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but if you think her fanbase doesn't affect how people perceive her, you're being naive.  I know people who won't admit to even liking her in passing because they're afraid of being labeled as creepy, because that is the general perception of what it is to be a Tali fan. 

And that's entirely the problem of the Talimancers.

First, permit me to say that I have throughly enjoyed your posts thus far, they remind me quite a bit of the insightful and thought provoking discussions that once were held in the Tali Threads of Old, and can only now, sadly, be found every once and a while in the private groups. That said, while I have enjoyed your observations and candor, I find myself somewhat Bi-Polar in my reaction to your various viewpoints. While I do agree, ardently, with your assertions that the thread has taken a sharp decline into, often, vulgar 4Chan territory, there are small diamonds still to be found in the proverbial rough. Also, I believe, wholeheartedly, that, for many, the interest in Tali goes a bit beyond the usual Geek Girl fare, especially when one takes into account that the modern Western interpretation of what constitutes the aforementioned Geek Girl is now quite a departure from the backwards Otaku/Anime/Manga interpretations so prevailent in the late '90s and early aughts.

In my experience, Geek Girls are highly intellectual, often compassionate, strong willed, and possess equal quantities of maturity and humor. When the chips are down, so to speak, they can rise to the occassion, but in moments when they have let thier proverbial hair down and thier inherent emotional defenses are lowered they can still reflect insercurities that often plague those who where either never social butterflies or found themsevles somewhat of an outcast. Tali, I feel, covers this broad spectrum quite well. Despite all the commendable aspects of her character, her personal history, as relayed to Shepard in ME1, indicates that she was always somewhat of the Odd Man Out. Though it was expected of her to always excel and be the best at everything, this elevated status, due to her Farther's postion in the Fleet, left her outside the social norm; even in her own life her distance from her father instilled in her a belief that she needed to carry an equal proportion of weight and responsibility upon her shoulders.

And it's these elements that, for me and, I think, many, have drawn players to Tali. It's not just the Mystery of What's Behind the Mask, or the Archaic notion that she's a virginal prize, but rather that she is, in many ways, a reflection of Shepard him(her)self. Regardless of Shepard's Origins (in my case, Spacer) our lead character has taken it upon him(her)self to carry, in many ways, the weight of not just humanity, but of the greater galaxy upon thier shoulders, alone if need be, but thankful, regardless, for any help. Tali mirrors this. However, unlike Shepard, she does not possess the experience to make the kind of difficult choices that often have to be made when one puts themselves center-stage in any major circumstance or conflict. This fact is imminently made clear in Mass Effect 1 after she allows herself to be drawn into an ambush thinking she is taking the most logical, if dangerous, course of action. However this poor choice in judgement is amended once Shepard becomes an influencing factor in her life, culminating in her desire to locate and retrieve the Geth Data for both the benefit of the Migrant Fleet as well as for her Pilgrimage.

And this is, I think, what lies at the heart of the Love for Tali. Unlike all of the other characters, there is the genuine sense that we are having a significant impact on Tali's growth as a person, watching her come into her own, as it were. It's one of reasons why I actually have come to laude BioWare's choice to not make her a Romance option in ME1. When she first comes into Shepard's life, she is very much the titular "Little Sister," character. Both a protoge and a friend. Shepard's role as a mentor for Tali cements a close bond that, I feel, no other character even comes remotely close to matching. Out of all the Characters, Tali most reflects the positive impact Shepard has had on thier respective lives. Unlike Liara who becomes a prisoner of her own emotions in persuit of revenge, or Ashley who becomes a Jaded reflection of her former self, it is Tali who shows and demonstrates, above all, the lessons she took from Shepard, rising to the occasion, taking command, and doing what she sees is best for her people even if they remain addamant on succumbing to old fears and prejudices.

Now, to be fair, somes of these choices do not end well for Tali, however, had she never met Shepard, been influenced and mentored by him, I don't imagine she ever would have found it within herself to even attempt the dangerous operation on Haestrom. Again, this is what makes the relationship and, later, the romance so captivating and endearing. When Shepard dies, Tali is only just becoming a fraction of who she is destined to be. When Shepard returns, she is no longer the proverbial Lost Lamb, but a stalwart woman, dedicated to higher goals and possessing the courage of her convinctions. Another element that makes Tali so endearing is the fact that, above all others, she has the most unwavering faith in Shepard. In ME2, after his(her) return, almost every character with the exception of Joker, questions Shepard choice to choose the lesser of two evils and work with Cerberus for the preservation of the Human Race. Liara seeks to only use Shepard, Ashley questions his motivations and even his loyalty, Garrus remains by his side but is warry of whether or not Cerberus is having any influence on Shepard. Tali, not once, questions what it is Shepard is doing. She believes in her former mentor, having seen him(her) make choices no one else could and never waiver.

Taking these things into account, I feel it's impossible for Shepard not to Fall in Love with Tali. When it seems everything and everyone he(she) knew had changed or has taken a step away from him, Tali remains his most ardent supporter, his veritable rock. Having been quite taken with Tali two years prior, as Shepard later indicates, the foundation is there for that gentle affection and respect to blossum into something more, devoid of "creepy" intentions. If one approaches Shepard and Tali's relationship from the context of the narrative, and not just some perverse obsession, what you find is, perhaps, the most emotionally engaging and endearing relationship in the ME Trilogy. A Love Story that paints a picture of standing against the tide, shoulder to shoulder, one giving stregth to the other.

While those who love Tali beyond nefarious reasons might see the source of thier affection or reasoning otherwise, I think these core components remain the same across the board. As such, while I feel many of your arguments hold a measure of truth, they are, in some respects, flawed as they, quite possibly, encompass your own prejudices against the character influenced by the negative element you've seen here. To summarize, there are many different positive reasons, devoid of crude reasoning, for why Tali Zorah stands as the most beloved and popular romance and character in Mass Effect. 
 

Modifié par glenboy24, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:16 .

[Scourge king]

i thought i took out only in that one statement it was supposed to be there are people who masterbate to her body and those people arent even real Tali fans.

Modifié par Scourge king, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:19 .

[Cultic-Jacopo N7]

I'm aware for this situation of love/hate on Tali (for fanbase vault though , not character fault ,sad) but what can i say?
My canon Shepard thinks like a paragon for him , Tali,Garrus and Joker are the Bros (Tali both bro and hos) , why should he threat like crap the most loyal and dedicated character he ever found?(but the renegades thinks that too,it's the only mentality they have in common).
Tali isn't perfect but she is awesome (imho) and she deserves the big fanbase she got (maybe not the type , but talking of numbers , she deserves what she got) , nice recruiment mission (imho) , awesome loyalty mission , enyoable attitude ( i actually have a little sister but she doesn't have anything in common with her , so i don't ever get this point), the best (imho) romance ; not characters attitude repairs like Jack and Miranda (i don't dislike them , just this is not what romance means to me, i don't want to have right , i just my opinion ), no plot armor or immortality, just chemistry and love (imho),if you don't agree , i'm open to debate about it  .
I can understand that most of Talimancers are considere psycho-nerd (sometimes , even i can't stand them) but the character is not the fanbase , this two thing most stay separeted,none character deserve to lose fans for this stupid reason (i'm really sorry for my crappy English,i'm not American ).

WOW , awesome post Glenboy  , completely agree with you.

Modifié par Cultic-Jacopo N7, 09 octobre 2011 - 06:40 .

[Quole]

glenboy24 wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Collider wrote...

If people are letting their enjoyment of a character diminish because of the fandom, that's their own problem.

Let me put it this way: 

It's hard to share that enjoyment if you drop by to discuss and everyone else is engaged in a giant circle jerk.  Personally, I've only romanced her twice in my various run-throughs.  As I've said elsewhere, to me, it's like hitting on your buddy's nerdy little sister.  The feeling doesn't change just because she got contacts and filled out.  Tempting, but ultimately serious douchebaggery.

Of course, a rather huge chunk of her appeal is the fact that she's so virginial.  We say we like mature, worldly women, but we get to break Tali in and ain't dat delicious?  That's the otaku fetish, that anime view where all the girls look and sound twelve and have 40 DD's.  Get your cake and eat it too, and they can say that's not the reason, but where else is all this masturabatory slobber coming from?

Most disturbing, more than the fans simply content enough to gush irrationally over a character, are the people so upset and insecure as to insult people over their choice of favorite character in a videogame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people on BSN, and they tend to bring down the experience for everyone.

Indeed, but that's not what I'm doing. Pointing out that a huge chunk of Tali fans are rather working that creep factor is simply pointing out a basic fact. 

No other female character in Mass Effect has this kind of fandom.  So, from whence does this popularity stem? 

Because, frankly, as characters go in this game, Tali's not that awesome. She doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and the thngs she is given responsibility for - finding Vee'tor and extracting data on Haestrom - she fails miserably at, if you're counting bodies left in her wake.

The one thing she does is fulfil is the Kari Byronesque nerdy geeky girl thing;  if you take away the fact that we ride in knight-like to save her - twice - then discover that she's been saving it for us and we get to pop some quarian cherry as the icing on the cake, the salivating over her would vanish overnight. 

If Tali was the worldly mature type and not the squeaky virgin type, this lip-smacking hand-jobbery would not be so omnipresent, and I challenge any ardent Talifan to present her virtues aside from her physical and virginial appeal, or is her ability to hack AI and clean the ship's engine really that boner-inducing?

Don't get me wrong, I like Tali, but if you think her fanbase doesn't affect how people perceive her, you're being naive.  I know people who won't admit to even liking her in passing because they're afraid of being labeled as creepy, because that is the general perception of what it is to be a Tali fan. 

And that's entirely the problem of the Talimancers.

First, permit me to say that I have throughly enjoyed your posts thus far, they remind me quite a bit of the insightful and thought provoking discussions that once were held in the Tali Threads of Old, and can only now, sadly, be found every once and a while in the private groups. That said, while I have enjoyed your observations and candor, I find myself somewhat Bi-Polar in my reaction to your various viewpoints. While I do agree, ardently, with your assertions that the thread has taken a sharp decline into, often, vulgar 4Chan territory, there are small diamonds still to be found in the proverbial rough. Also, I believe, wholeheartedly, that, for many, the interest in Tali goes a bit beyond the usual Geek Girl fare, especially when one takes into account that the modern Western interpretation of what constitutes the aforementioned Geek Girl is now quite a departure from the backwards Otaku/Anime/Manga interpretations so prevailent in the late '90s and early aughts.

In my experience, Geek Girls are highly intellectual, often compassionate, strong willed, and possess equal quantities of maturity and humor. When the chips are down, so to speak, they can rise to the occassion, but in moments when they have let thier proverbial hair down and thier inherent emotional defenses are lowered they can still reflect insercurities that often plague those who where either never social butterflies or found themsevles somewhat of an outcast. Tali, I feel, covers this broad spectrum quite well. Despite all the commendable aspects of her character, her personal history, as relayed to Shepard in ME1, indicates that she was always somewhat of the Odd Man Out. Though it was expected of her to always excel and be the best at everything, this elevated status, due to her Farther's postion in the Fleet, left her outside the social norm; even in her own life her distance from her father instilled in her a belief that she needed to carry an equal proportion of weight and responsibility upon her shoulders.

And it's these elements that, for me and, I think, many, have drawn players to Tali. It's not just the Mystery of What's Behind the Mask, or the Archaic notion that she's a virginal prize, but rather that she is, in many ways, a reflection of Shepard him(her)self. Regardless of Shepard's Origins (in my case, Spacer) our lead character has taken it upon him(her)self to carry, in many ways, the weight of not just humanity, but of the greater galaxy upon thier shoulders, alone if need be, but thankful, regardless, for any help. Tali mirrors this. However, unlike Shepard, she does not possess the experience to make the kind of difficult choices that often have to be made when one puts themselves center-stage in any major circumstance or conflict. This fact is imminently made clear in Mass Effect 1 after she allows herself to be drawn into an ambush thinking she is taking the most logical, if dangerous, course of action. However this poor choice in judgement is amended once Shepard becomes an influencing factor in her life, culminating in her desire to locate and retrieve the Geth Data for both the benefit of the Migrant Fleet as well as for her Pilgrimage.

And this is, I think, what lies at the heart of the Love for Tali. Unlike all of the other characters, there is the genuine sense that we are having a significant impact on Tali's growth as a person, watching her come into her own, as it were. It's one of reasons why I actually have come to laude BioWare's choice to not make her a Romance option in ME1. When she first comes into Shepard's life, she is very much the titular "Little Sister," character. Both a protoge and a friend. Shepard's role as a mentor for Tali cements a close bond that, I feel, no other character even comes remotely close to matching. Out of all the Characters, Tali most reflects the positive impact Shepard has had on thier respective lives. Unlike Liara who becomes a prisoner of her own emotions in persuit of revenge, or Ashley who becomes a Jaded reflection of her former self, it is Tali who shows and demonstrates, above all, the lessons she took from Shepard, rising to the occasion, taking command, and doing what she sees is best for her people even if they remain addamant on succumbing to old fears and prejudices.

Now, to be fair, somes of these choices do not end well for Tali, however, had she never met Shepard, been influenced and mentored by him, I don't imagine she ever would have found it within herself to even attempt the dangerous operation on Haestrom. Again, this is what makes the relationship and, later, the romance so captivating and endearing. When Shepard dies, Tali is only just becoming a fraction of who she is destined to be. When Shepard returns, she is no longer the proverbial Lost Lamb, but a stalwart woman, dedicated to higher goals and possessing the courage of her convinctions. Another element that makes Tali so endearing is the fact that, above all others, she has the most unwavering faith in Shepard. In ME2, after his(her) return, almost every character with the exception of Joker, questions Shepard choice to choose the lesser of two evils and work with Cerberus for the preservation of the Human Race. Liara seeks to only use Shepard, Ashley questions his motivations and even his loyalty, Garrus remains by his side but is warry of whether or not Cerberus is having any influence on Shepard. Tali, not once, questions what it is Shepard is doing. She believes in her former mentor, having seen him(her) make choices no one else could and never waiver.

Taking these things into account, I feel it's impossible for Shepard not to Fall in Love with Tali. When it seems everything and everyone he(she) knew had changed or has taken a step away from him, Tali remains his most ardent supporter, his veritable rock. Having been quite taken with Tali two years prior, as Shepard later indicates, the foundation is there for that gentle affection and respect to blossum into something more, devoid of "creepy" intentions. If one approaches Shepard and Tali's relationship from the context of the narrative, and not just some perverse obsession, what you find is, perhaps, the most emotionally engaging and endearing relationship in the ME Trilogy. A Love Story that paints a picture of standing against the tide, shoulder to shoulder, one giving stregth to the other.

While those who love Tali beyond nefarious reasons might see the source of thier affection or reasoning otherwise, I think these core components remain the same across the board. As such, while I feel many of your arguments hold a measure of truth, they are, in some respects, flawed as they, quite possibly, encompass your own prejudices against the character influenced by the negative element you've seen here. To summarize, there are many different positive reasons, devoid of crude reasoning, for why Tali Zorah stands as the most beloved and popular romance and character in Mass Effect. 
 

well said.

[T.Attwood]

DoNotIngest wrote...

EDIT: And really, there's usually only a few dozen people who post in a character thread, tops, consistent posters usually ten or less. It's a very small pool to judge from on the BSN what similarities Tali fans share if it's a fraction of a percentage that are vocal.

Yes. People don't seem to understand a simple law of statistics: if you attempt to draw conclusions from a small sample and use them to describe a population, you will get very inaccurate results. For example, it makes me laugh when you hear some haters using the 'Tali's sweat' fiasco, claiming it represents all Tali fans. It is like saying "one person says (insert nonsense here), so therefore everyone must be saying exactly the same thing". Obviously, those particular haters dont realise that people are individual thinking entities, and not some collective consciousness.

[AnimaTempli101]

Tali fans, I find myself bored and have a distinct lack of things to do. Could any of you fine people point me in the direction of some quality FanFic? (Answers in PM form please, be aware I have already read both Razor's Edge and its sequel)

[tyler1991991]

I am gonna throw my 2 cents about Tali's face reveal

There are 2 major groups (IMO) the people that want to see her face and the people who dont simple .Bioware is gonna step on someones toes with this no question about it the matter is who dont they want to ****** off more. I think there are more people who want to see her face than dont. I want to see her face because its the last of the trilogy she is an important side character and not like Master Chief which is you. They should like show it like the artical said in an emotional way i want to see her smile and cry of happiness and hear her and Shepard say i love you. My face would melt from that and i dont see how anyone wouldnt want to see that just because they dont want their image of her to be ruined.

Also if they just show us another Quarian's like body and face and not Tali's then i would be mad too. Just because I didnt romance that Quarian, that Quarian wasnt with me since ME1, that Quarian doesnt have my Shepards love. I hope they dont do this just to be like ok you know what they look like under their suites and you still can wonder about Tali it would be a cop-out IMO. That was my 2 cents and now i will go back to lurking.

Modifié par tyler1991991, 09 octobre 2011 - 07:31 .

[Errationatus]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Thanks Rune, I was just waiting for it to tide over.

So I have started imagining quarians (and Tali of course) with a silver/metallic kind of skin tone... Thoughts?

Edit: Jake, I am a straight woman and I love Tali as a character. Quit throwing around stereotypes please.

You being a straight woman is irrelevant.  I like Tali - as I have stated.  I also differentiated between the fanbase, as you can see from my earlier post on this subject - I gave folks their due. That some fit a stereotype is not my doing.

It cannot, however, be denied that Tali is being judged by the creepy underbelly of her fanbase, and the odds are good that there are intelligent, articulate people who would love to discuss her, but won't because anywhere they could is awash in sticky Tali love.  Why frigg'n bother when taking a warm swim makes you come up covered in slime?

It's a pity because the character has enormous potential.