[quote]glenboy24 wrote...
First, permit me to say that I have throughly enjoyed your posts thus far, they remind me quite a bit of the insightful and thought provoking discussions that once were held in the Tali Threads of Old, and can only now, sadly, be found every once and a while in the private groups.
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I appreciate that, thank you.
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That said, while I have enjoyed your observations and candor, I find myself somewhat Bi-Polar in my reaction to your various viewpoints. While I do agree, ardently, with your assertions that the thread has taken a sharp decline into, often, vulgar 4Chan territory, there are small diamonds still to be found in the proverbial rough.
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True. I was not including them in any way. As I made plain in an earlier post. I speak only of the loudly vocal creepy ones, unfortunately which is all most people see.
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Also, I believe, wholeheartedly, that, for many, the interest in Tali goes a bit beyond the usual Geek Girl fare, especially when one takes into account that the modern Western interpretation of what constitutes the aforementioned Geek Girl is now quite a departure from the backwards Otaku/Anime/Manga interpretations so prevailent in the late '90s and early aughts.
In my experience, Geek Girls - SNIP- Tali, I feel, covers this broad spectrum quite well.
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I have absolutely nothing against Geeky Girls. I say more power to them, long may they wave. Again, let me reiterate that I am Not Talking About Tali. I like Tali a lot.
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Despite all the commendable aspects of her character - SNIP - even in her own life her distance from her father instilled in her a belief that she needed to carry an equal proportion of weight and responsibility upon her shoulders.
And it's these elements that, for me and, I think, many, -SNIP - culminating in her desire to locate and retrieve the Geth Data for both the benefit of the Migrant Fleet as well as for her Pilgrimage.
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Well and good, but ultimately, what has she learned? Freedom's Progress and Haestrom are not shining examples of her command ability. From what her story within the game is alluding, she's not Admiral material, not even close.
Let's not be starry-eyed here: she did not procure the geth data on her pilgrimage - you did. You saved her from Fist. You saved her from Freedom's Progress and Haestrom and you saved her from her Father and exile. Not her own efforts. YOURS.
Let me make this plain: Without Shepard, she would have died in the alley on the Citadel. Without Shepard, her Pilgrimage would have taken a lot longer, if she even survived it. Without Shepard, she would have died on Freedom's Progress and Haestrom. Without Shepard, she'd have been exiled. Period.
I don't adore her, so I don't cultivate the illusions about her.
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And this is, I think, what lies at the heart of the Love for Tali. Unlike all of the other characters, there is the genuine sense that we are having a significant impact on Tali's growth as a person, watching her come into her own, as it were.
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See above. Her growth as a person is almost entirely due to Shepard's efforts. Rescue after rescue, O White Knight. Sorry.
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It's one of reasons why I actually have
come to laude BioWare's choice to not make her a Romance option in ME1.
When she first comes into Shepard's life, she is very much the titular
"Little Sister," character. Both a protoge and a friend. Shepard's role
as a mentor for Tali cements a close bond that, I feel, no other
character even comes remotely close to matching.
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And that's why the lust for this sweet young thing in your charge is so damn creepy.
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Out of all the
Characters, Tali most reflects the positive impact Shepard has had on
thier respective lives. Unlike Liara who becomes a prisoner of her own
emotions in persuit of revenge,
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I'd dispute that, but this isn't a Liara thread.
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or Ashley who becomes a Jaded reflection
of her former self,
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This too, but this isn't an Ashley thread, either.
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it is Tali who shows and demonstrates, above all,
the lessons she took from Shepard, rising to the occasion, taking
command, and doing what she sees is best for her people even if they
remain addamant on succumbing to old fears and prejudices.
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I'm afraid I have no idea where you see that, because as I stated above, none of that happened.
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Now,
to be fair, somes of these choices do not end well for Tali, however,
had she never met Shepard, been influenced and mentored by him, I don't
imagine she ever would have found it within herself to even attempt the
dangerous operation on Haestrom. Again, this is what makes the
relationship and, later, the romance so captivating and endearing.
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Again, I must be missing something.
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When
Shepard dies, Tali is only just becoming a fraction of who she is
destined to be. When Shepard returns, she is no longer the proverbial
Lost Lamb, but a stalwart woman, dedicated to higher goals and
possessing the courage of her convinctions. Another element that makes
Tali so endearing is the fact that, above all others, she has the most
unwavering faith in Shepard.
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That is not always a good thing. "Unwavering faith" can become "complete dependance", which in itself can be creepy.
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In ME2, after his(her) return, almost every
character with the exception of Joker, questions Shepard choice to
choose the lesser of two evils and work with Cerberus for the
preservation of the Human Race. Liara seeks to only use Shepard,
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Again, I think you're wrong, but not a Liara thread...
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Ashley
questions his motivations and even his loyalty,
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See above.
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Garrus remains by his
side but is warry of whether or not Cerberus is having any influence on
Shepard. Tali, not once, questions what it is Shepard is doing. She
believes in her former mentor, having seen him(her) make choices no one
else could and never waiver.
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Not always healthy.
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Taking these things into account, I
feel it's impossible for Shepard not to Fall in Love with Tali.
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Unfortunately, if your premise is flawed, your conclusion will be likewise.
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When it
seems everything and everyone he(she) knew had changed or has taken a
step away from him, Tali remains his most ardent supporter, his
veritable rock. -SNIP - A Love Story that paints a picture of
standing against the tide, shoulder to shoulder, one giving stregth to
the other.
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That's your interpretation. I don't happen to agree with it.
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While those who love Tali beyond nefarious reasons
might see the source of thier affection or reasoning otherwise, I think
these core components remain the same across the board. As such, while I
feel many of your arguments hold a measure of truth, they are, in some
respects, flawed as they, quite possibly, encompass your own prejudices
against the character influenced by the negative element you've seen
here.
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No... as I've said many times I am not on Tali's case. You have your take on her romance. I think your glasses are a little too rose-coloured.
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To summarize, there are many different positive reasons, devoid of
crude reasoning, for why Tali Zorah stands as the most beloved and
popular romance and character in Mass Effect.
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This is, again, your opinion, but seeing as I think your reasons for adoring her are a bit over-romanticised, I'm not surprised you'd think this way. Be that as it may, that doesn't refute what I've said about Tali's fans - in fact you've actually mildly illustrated a level to which I was alluding, although I certainly wouldn't include you in the creepy section of the fanbase - not even close.
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