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[Grand Champion]

Dynaphus wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

BrysonC wrote...

I wasn't aware of the 99% quarian genocide statistic. Where was that shared?

In the Codex, with a little math. Population prior to Morning War was in the Billions, after the war 17 million remained.

I have a hard time sympathizing with machines that commit genocide like that. 

1: In a sense the Geth were like developing children, they knew nothing other then what was shown to them. As none of them were being shown any 'mercy'

2: Of course, any species that does notice, and appreciate it's mistakes, or at least actively seek to right them deserves a chance to do so.

Pulled this from the wiki: 1: They sheltered geth from the authorities, and were detained or killed as a result. 



2: If you are talking about the Geth, then lolno. If they wanted to right their lefts wrongs they would have gave the Quarians Rannoch back.

Modifié par Wertom Three, 25 septembre 2012 - 08:20 .

[Dynaphus]

Wertom Three wrote...

Dynaphus wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

BrysonC wrote...

I wasn't aware of the 99% quarian genocide statistic. Where was that shared?

In the Codex, with a little math. Population prior to Morning War was in the Billions, after the war 17 million remained.

I have a hard time sympathizing with machines that commit genocide like that. 

1: In a sense the Geth were like developing children, they knew nothing other then what was shown to them. As none of them were being shown any 'mercy'

2: Of course, any species that does notice, and appreciate it's mistakes, or at least actively seek to right them deserves a chance to do so.

Pulled this from the wiki: 1: They sheltered geth from the authorities, and were detained or killed as a result. 



2: If you are talking about the Geth, then lolno. If they wanted to right their lefts wrongs they would have gave the Quarians Rannoch back.

Indeed, several were killed for sheltering the Geth. Those being sheltered generally not engaging in the war itself. Your argument is that they were wrong for sheltering non-combatants from a military government that was willing to execute it's own people? 

The final point refers to both of them. They've both committed their fair share of mistakes. But as for 'giving Rannoch back' I'd advise you to think logically, and strategically. The Quarians by that point had responded with nothing but violence, and eventual flight. What reason had the Geth to believe they would do anything else if they'd been allowed to return? Secondly, consider that it's highly unlikely the Quarians would willing just 'Return' if offered. They'd both expect violence from the other, and simple self-preservation and paranoia would end up causing any antempted 'Peace' at that point to be doomed to failue.
Of course, as a final note, your assuming at this extremely young stage in their existance that the Geth would even understand the value a species might attach to their homeworld. 

[JesseLee202]

Dynaphus wrote...

A few things should be taken into account. Firstly that a reasonable number of Quarians killed were killed by their own kind. The numbers of those little 'Purges' is never listed but it factors in.

The codex says the number of Quarians that helped the Geth were ultimately outnumbered. Those numbers added into the MILLIONS killed by the Geth... hardly even makes a dent.

Secondly it's worth considering that the Geth, although becoming sentient to a degree, were still in their infancy and as such knew little about how to react, and alternative responses to attacks upon them. In short, they responded with the one thing being shown to them by their creators - Force.

That is pure speculation. I can do that too BTW...

The Geth killed innocent women and children, used chemical weapons, and drove the Quarians off of every single star system they had. Ooooh the Geth are sooo innocent.

In a sense the Geth were like developing children, they knew nothing other then what was shown to them. As none of them were being shown any 'mercy' (A trait that was certainly not taught to them by those who claim a moral high ground), why should they be expected to know any different?

Um, yes they were shown mercy... Quarians that sided with them, not to mention the only reason the Quarians flipped out, was because one Quarian was afraid of a Geth asking its purpose. 

Another point, Geth already understand the concept of mercy. They will never show it. They use cold, calculated decisions.

Not to mention that it seems the Quarians tried to keep fighting long after the war had appeared to become hopeless. Some might call it 'Brave', but with their civilians still unevacuated, I personally would call it 'idocy', or at least 'pig-headed stubborness'.

More speculation on your part. The Quarians need Rannoch because of their weak immune systems. It would take less time to adapt to Rannoch than any other planet. You seriously think they only want to kill the Geth? The Geth stayed on Rannoch for no reason whatsoever. Just to "caretake" when they didn't need to. The Quarians are not as dumb as you would like to think.

(Someone needed to play 'devil's advocate')

Actually no, no one needs to.

[Tali Nar Shepahard vas normandy]

Whoever is calling selfish, I'm gonna kill you. Second, I've always thought the geth were cool, but it ends there. They should have tried to make peace, simple as that. They should have told the quarians they didn't want war. And I think that quarians had pilgrimages pre morning war.

[AquaKinesis]

Dynaphus wrote...


Indeed, several were killed for sheltering the Geth. Those being sheltered generally not engaging in the war itself. Your argument is that they were wrong for sheltering non-combatants from a military government that was willing to execute it's own people? 
 

There's no evidence to any of this whatsoever.  The only time we see quarians killing each other is in the server mission, when the bomb goes off and kills one. One quarian being killed by collateral damage doesn't suddenly mean they were lining up the traitors and executing them.

[Dynaphus]

AquaKinesis wrote...

Dynaphus wrote...


Indeed, several were killed for sheltering the Geth. Those being sheltered generally not engaging in the war itself. Your argument is that they were wrong for sheltering non-combatants from a military government that was willing to execute it's own people? 
 

There's no evidence to any of this whatsoever.  The only time we see quarians killing each other is in the server mission, when the bomb goes off and kills one. One quarian being killed by collateral damage doesn't suddenly mean they were lining up the traitors and executing them.

Legion states that over time those who support, and shelter the Geth were found, and quite heavily implies they were wiped out. Of course, people are free to assume he's lying.

[Grand Champion]

Dynaphus wrote...

Wertom Three wrote...

Dynaphus wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

BrysonC wrote...

I wasn't aware of the 99% quarian genocide statistic. Where was that shared?

In the Codex, with a little math. Population prior to Morning War was in the Billions, after the war 17 million remained.

I have a hard time sympathizing with machines that commit genocide like that. 

1: In a sense the Geth were like developing children, they knew nothing other then what was shown to them. As none of them were being shown any 'mercy'

2: Of course, any species that does notice, and appreciate it's mistakes, or at least actively seek to right them deserves a chance to do so.

Pulled this from the wiki: 1: They sheltered geth from the authorities, and were detained or killed as a result. 



2: If you are talking about the Geth, then lolno. If they wanted to right their lefts wrongs they would have gave the Quarians Rannoch back.

1: Your argument is that they were wrong for sheltering non-combatants from a military government that was willing to execute it's own people? 

2:The Quarians by that point had responded with nothing but violence, and eventual flight.  

1:I am stateing that they were shown mercy and compassion

2: Read 1 and have a Tali



http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

[JesseLee202]

Dynaphus wrote...

AquaKinesis wrote...

Dynaphus wrote...


Indeed, several were killed for sheltering the Geth. Those being sheltered generally not engaging in the war itself. Your argument is that they were wrong for sheltering non-combatants from a military government that was willing to execute it's own people? 
 

There's no evidence to any of this whatsoever.  The only time we see quarians killing each other is in the server mission, when the bomb goes off and kills one. One quarian being killed by collateral damage doesn't suddenly mean they were lining up the traitors and executing them.

Legion states that over time those who support, and shelter the Geth were found, and quite heavily implies they were wiped out. Of course, people are free to assume he's lying.

That is just as reasonable as trusting Legion.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

[Dynaphus]

JesseLee202 wrote...

That is pure speculation. 

Indeed, speculation, formed with the application of logic. Due to the rather lacking amount details available on the Morning War logic and speculation are necesarry to form the closest thing each of us has to an image of the events that occured. I think it's safe to assume however that everyone has their own perspectives on the paticulars. Which is why I think it's safe to say You and I have very different impressions of the event. 
In the end, I would grant that both of us have done a fair amount of speculating, simply due to the lack of definte, and unbiased acounts of the war itself, an well as the simple lack of large quantities of concrete information on the specifics. 

[AquaKinesis]

darthrevaninlight wrote...


DISCUSSION TO DISCUSS: Tali, in Mass Effect 3, faces the dilemma of choosing either her people or Shepard. At the end of the Rannoch arc, she does choose Shepard, saying "I gave up my father for my people. I gave up my freedom for an admiral position I didn't want. I'm not giving up you."
This choice; to choose Shepard even while knowing her people need her. She makes a selfish choice, to stay with Shepard rather than stay for the sake of all her people, and even while fully aware of the selfishness ingrained in her decision. Is this a change in her character? And what brought it out?

I think it IS a little selfish, but that's the point. She's always been incredibly selfless, thinking of the fleet before herself. By going with Shepard, she's finally doing something for herself. Something that SHE wants. And she's earned it at this point, I think.

Besides, she was only made in admiral because her people were about to go to war with the geth, and she knew more about the geth than anyone. Once the war is over, she'd probably be more helpful with Shepard. And she never wanted to be an admiral, anyway.

[AquaKinesis]

Dynaphus wrote...

Legion states that over time those who support, and shelter the Geth were found, and quite heavily implies they were wiped out. Of course, people are free to assume he's lying.

No, he says that over time the quarians who opposed martial law on Rannoch became outnumbered. Maybe because as time went on, it became more and more apparent to the quarians that the geth were exterminating them.

[Grand Champion]

 Yes! Break the arguement! 

[JesseLee202]

Dynaphus wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

That is pure speculation. 

Indeed, speculation, formed with the application of logic. Due to the rather lacking amount details available on the Morning War logic and speculation are necesarry to form the closest thing each of us has to an image of the events that occured. I think it's safe to assume however that everyone has their own perspectives on the paticulars. Which is why I think it's safe to say You and I have very different impressions of the event. 
In the end, I would grant that both of us have done a fair amount of speculating, simply due to the lack of definte, and unbiased acounts of the war itself, an well as the simple lack of large quantities of concrete information on the specifics. 

As long as you acknowledge that the Geth are not blameless, as I have done with the Quarians.

Both are responsible, I just side more with the Quarians. 

[Dynaphus]

As long as you acknowledge that the Geth are not blameless, as I have done with the Quarians.

Both are responsible, I just side more with the Quarians. 

Indeed, both have been responsible for the ensuing destruction. Although my argument might have appeared biased, and if that was the case, then fair enough, my apologies as that fault is mine and mine alone. 

I myself personally just tend to hold a certain degree of sympathy for the Geth.

[BrysonC]

Dynaphus wrote...


I myself personally just tend to hold a certain degree of sympathy for the Geth.

So do I, but I think the general consensus we've rightly reached is that neither side is blameless.

Shall we move on?

[JesseLee202]

Agreed.

So... Tali...

[Edolix]

...is amazing.

I don't if you guys have seen this (it was posted a great deal around BSN recently) but it's basically a Mass Effect tribute video - an extremely well done tribute video. Much respect to the guy who made it, as he did it in 6 different versions! (Male and female, with each of the three endings respectively). The one I've linked is for Male/Destroy. It's bloody excellent. Watch it now.

And it IS relevant because the Male version has Tali as the LI. Which is as it should be

[JesseLee202]

Shep catching Legion and not Tali?

I am slightly mad. 

Other than that, great video.

[The Most Sneaky Of Foxes]

 So, been lurking around this thread a while now...
And being the technical genius that I am, how do you post pics?
I'm doing this from my phone, so that may be why it's not working.
But anyway... Tali.

[JesseLee202]

SneakyFox wrote...

 So, been lurking around this thread a while now...
And being the technical genius that I am, how do you post pics?
I'm doing this from my phone, so that may be why it's not working.
But anyway... Tali.

*img* image url */img*

replace * with [ and ]

[Edolix]

^^ Or you could simply copy and paste. That works as well lol.

[JesseLee202]

We need more Tali.

[The Most Sneaky Of Foxes]

 Aaaaand I didn't even think of that <_<
But anyway, here:

http://meenoy6.devia...059135#/d45ve0o

It's by meenoy6 on DA. Should really look at her stuff, she has a lot of Tali doodles 

[BrysonC]

SneakyFox wrote...

 Aaaaand I didn't even think of that <_<
But anyway, here:

http://meenoy6.devia...059135#/d45ve0o

It's by meenoy6 on DA. Should really look at her stuff, she has a lot of Tali doodles 

Cheers for the link, some cute doodles in her gallery.

[JesseLee202]

Quick question...

I know all about the suicide mission mechanics, and who shep catches etc..
But in ME1, which characters take what side on saving the council. In this video, Tali has dialogue for both sides of the argument... My question is, who should I bring so Tali will say "This is bigger than humanity." and advocates saving the council.

I usually bring Garrus with Tali; Garrus wants to save them, while Tali wants  to hold the ships back.

Modifié par JesseLee202, 26 septembre 2012 - 12:42 .