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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*

Débuté par Collider , juin 13 2011 06:02

69153 réponses à ce sujet

#7426
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:42

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Saphra Deden wrote...

cacharadon wrote...

The point is shepard knows what would happen if he revealed the data.


No he doesn't. All he knows is that Rael will be exiled posthumounsly. He knows nothing else.

You are advocating covering up the truth to protect your waifu's feelings. That's not very responsible.



It's mentioned explicitly what would happen if you revealed the data, maybe its Tali herself that says it can't remeber right now. But yea fracturing the quarian is not the smartest descion with the reapers knocking on your door. ...biggest fleet and all that...
Bioware provides 4 options that lead down a specific path,
1) exile Tali
2) incite crowd
3) paragon speech
4) renegade speech

if you want to be the oddball that decides to hand over the data, well more power to you. Just pointing out that it's gonna make things tough for you when the reapers show up and half your quarian fleet is either busy fighting geth, or running circles around the council races begging for colonisation rights. You've single handedly disabled half the galaxy. :wizard:

#7427
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:45

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aiDvEoN wrote...

You aren't covering up a damn thing, you're keeping it out of a public circus.


Riiight... hiding information isn't "covering anything up".

Do you work for the US government or something?


cacharadon wrote...

It's mentioned explicitly what would happen if you revealed the data,


No. It. Isn't.

Modifié par Saphra Deden, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:46 .

#7428
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:45

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GoG ToXiC wrote...

You guys must be new here. You don't argue with Saphra. She refuses to even consider the fact that other people might have reasons just as good as hers for doing something differently and seems to think we're all idiots if we don't play the game the way she does. Or at least that's the impressions I get. Either way, the argument isn't worth the pain of banging your head into a wall.


im just bored, and this thread hardly has anything worthwhile to discuss on the best of days. Till bioware release new Tali news this thread is going to flounder with stale discussions about her mask. Might as well discuss the quarian issue since its slightly tali related

#7429
Codyacsmith
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:46

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/\\This coming from someone who's pro-Cerberus.

#7430
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:50

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Saphra Deden wrote...

cacharadon wrote...

It's mentioned explicitly what would happen if you revealed the data,


No. It. Isn't.



OK lemme put it this way, bioware very carefully releases bits and snippets of information through various npcs as to what might happen if the data is released to the public. Its up to YUUUUUUO the PC to connect the dots and figure out that releasing the data is the equivalent of releasing a bull in a china shop.

*edit i'm pro TIM not pro cerberus, still gonna kill him though.

Modifié par cacharadon, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:51 .

#7431
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:52

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cacharadon wrote...

OK lemme put it this way, bioware very carefully releases bits and snippets of information through various npcs as to what might happen if the data is released to the public.


They did no such thing. All you learned was that there were different opinions floating about. None of it says anything about what will happen if the data is revealed. The most they say is what might happen depending on who replaces the fallen Admiral. (and it says nothing about the fleet splitting)

You are trying hard to justify your shiftless meta-gaming.

#7432
Codyacsmith
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:54

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I was talking about Saphra being a hypocrite cause Cerberus is most likely involved in some cover-ups.

#7433
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 02:58

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Saphra Deden wrote...

cacharadon wrote...

OK lemme put it this way, bioware very carefully releases bits and snippets of information through various npcs as to what might happen if the data is released to the public.


They did no such thing. All you learned was that there were different opinions floating about. None of it says anything about what will happen if the data is revealed. The most they say is what might happen depending on who replaces the fallen Admiral. (and it says nothing about the fleet splitting)

You are trying hard to justify your shiftless meta-gaming.


fine i give up, I just don't have the stamina to keep up this argument.

#7434
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:10

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cacharadon wrote...

fine i give up, I just don't have the stamina to keep up this argument.


I win again! Was there any doubt? You know, to admit defeat like that (almost) shows integrity on your part (almost).

It amazes me how far people are willing to go, the mental gymnastics they'll perform, to justify their decisions.

Actually, it doesn't amaze me at all.

Tali did a very selfish thing. She robbed the victims of her father of their justice, all to protect her father's reputation. I understand why she did it, but the only person responsible for Rael's reputation being destroyed is Rael himself. Tali needs to grow up.

#7435
Jog0907
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:12

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Saphra Deden wrote...

cacharadon wrote...

OK lemme put it this way, bioware very carefully releases bits and snippets of information through various npcs as to what might happen if the data is released to the public.


They did no such thing. All you learned was that there were different opinions floating about. None of it says anything about what will happen if the data is revealed. The most they say is what might happen depending on who replaces the fallen Admiral. (and it says nothing about the fleet splitting)

You are trying hard to justify your shiftless meta-gaming.


truth be told it is you the one that is trying hard to justify the way you play, tali advises you not to reveal the data not only for her fathers sake but also she does expresses fear about what the data can do to the fleet if its revealed. You should trust her judgement since its her people we are talking about.
Also how people play the game its their business, mass effect favors choice deal with it, that you act with such contempt towards people who make different choices than you its just sad.

edit> reading your post above and your views of a discussion as winning or losing shows how inmature and uncapable of intelligent discussion you truly are. Also you didnt won the discussion the only thing that happened is that your stubborness and close mind resulted in people getting tired of talking with you, not the most honorable way of "winning" an argument.

Modifié par Jog0907, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:19 .

#7436
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:16

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Jog0907 wrote...

truth be told it is you the one that is trying hard to justify the way you play, tali advises you not to reveal the data not only for her fathers sake but also she does expresses fear about what the data can do to the fleet if its revealed.


No. She. Doesn't.

#7437
Codyacsmith
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:19

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Let's all agree to disagree.

#7438
Another_Golden_Dragon
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:25

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Bulls don't break every piece of china in a china shop, btw.... Unless you try to put 6-10 bulls into too small of a space or something rediculous like that. That myth was busted. :)

What is explicitly stated (by Tali) is that informing the Admiralty Board will destroy everything her father was. Yes, it will exonerate Tali (Her father really is to blame, and even stated that Tali wasn't involved in one of the logs), but, as the entire point is to gain her loyalty (which revealing the data will NOT do) it fails to work.

How I wish it could be handled (Full Paragon Route): Same way as Mordin's with the Genophage Cure Data. Destroy all evidince of it on the Ship, and keep the only copy (I'd wipe the logs, too) for myself. After the end of the trial, I'd destroy that last copy, too.

Then get Tali and Legion to talk it all out.

#7439
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:26

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Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

What is explicitly stated (by Tali) is that informing the Admiralty Board will destroy everything her father was.


Yes, which pertains to her father's reputation and nothing else. It does not in any way indicate that the fleet will break apart over their disagreements. Frankly, there is no reason they shouldn't have broken up if you kept the data hidden since their disagreements haven't gone anywhere.

#7440
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:27

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Saphra Deden wrote...

cacharadon wrote...

fine i give up, I just don't have the stamina to keep up this argument.


I win again! Was there any doubt? You know, to admit defeat like that (almost) shows integrity on your part (almost).

It amazes me how far people are willing to go, the mental gymnastics they'll perform, to justify their decisions.

Actually, it doesn't amaze me at all.

Tali did a very selfish thing. She robbed the victims of her father of their justice, all to protect her father's reputation. I understand why she did it, but the only person responsible for Rael's reputation being destroyed is Rael himself. Tali needs to grow up.


GRAAAWWRR youve enraged me *RELEASE THE KRACKEN* 

You don't seem to care that Rael was Tali's father. When confronted with your loved ones good and bad dosen't mean the same thing. Unless your some unfeeing robot completely cut off emotianlly from anyone thats close to you.

And what justice are you talking about here btw?

The quarians knew what they were geting into when they started experimenting on the geth. So do you mean justice as in string them out like the scum they are? this would help nobody. Sure some people would get a chance to spit on their corpses, but seriously was it worth it -.- 

OR

do you mean justice as in some sort of exonaration and pardon? if so then what about Rael? The quarians on the ship was as guilty as Rael. Keeping the data underwaps would overall prevent a lot of nasty feelings. Even if you don't believe the whole quarian fracture theory.

Why so concerned about accountability? are you related to Julian Asange?
BTW those "mental gymnastics" is what most people call role playing.
You know, the whole point of mass effect... otherwise how would we ever come up with this situation.
Where 2 random strangers on opposite sides of the world sit in front of their computers arguing about accountability of a war crime commited by a fictional alien race.

Modifié par cacharadon, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:29 .

#7441
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:33

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cacharadon wrote...

You don't seem to care that Rael was Tali's father.


I do care, but what is more important? Rael's reputation and Tali's feelings or 17 million people?

What Tali wanted was understandable, but was also selfish and short-sighted.

chacharadon wrote...

And what justice are you talking about here btw?


The family members of Rael's victims deserve to know why their loved ones died and who was responsible. They deserve closure on the matter, they deserve the truth. Furthermore, the leadership is discussing the possibility of war and Shepard, if he needs Tali's demands, is complicit in hiding information pertinent to that discussion.

chacharadon wrote...

Why so concerned about accountability?


I'm not, but I recognize accountability when I see it and I know right from wrong.

cacharadon wrote...

BTW those "mental gymnastics" is what most people call role playing.


Call it whatever you want but have the integrity to admit selfishness when it is present.

#7442
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:35

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This is hopleless, kthxbai

#7443
Codyacsmith
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:37

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This. Will. Never. Stop.

#7444
Sethan_1
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:37

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Rael is dead. Everyone directly involved with what he was doing is dead, as a direct result of their actions.

They've already paid the ultimate price for their actions. Justice ends there.

#7445
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:38

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Sethan_1 wrote...

Rael is dead. Everyone directly involved with what he was doing is dead, as a direct result of their actions.

They've already paid the ultimate price for their actions. Justice ends there.


No it doesn't. The next of kin will still be suffering as a result of Rael's actions. They deserve to know the truth and to know that justice was carried out. If that justice is Rael being exiled in death then so be it. He brought it upon himself with his recklessness.

#7446
Ravensword
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:39

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Saphra Deden wrote...

-snip-


Bah! I have the power to decide what will happen to the Quarian fleet b/c of the information from the Alarei. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. The many being the galaxy and the few being the ones who's loved ones died due to Rael's negligence.

#7447
Jog0907
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:41

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saphra you are saying it yourself, 17 million people are more important than tali, thats why you let her hold herself accountable for the disaster on the alarei instead of revealing the true culprit using evidence that even without being told before about its obvious can do nothing but cause a public outrage and political ****storm.

Modifié par Jog0907, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:43 .

#7448
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:43

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Ravensword wrote...

Bah! I have the power to decide what
will happen to the Quarian fleet b/c of the information from the Alarei.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. The many being the
galaxy and the few being the ones who's loved ones died due to Rael's
negligence.


You are meta-gaming and thus your argument is completely worthless.

Jog0907 wrote...

saphra you are saying it yourself, 17 million people are more important than tali,


Yes and that is why they should know the truth so that their decision on how to move forward will an informed decision rather than one made in ignorance.

#7449
Guest_cacharadon_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:44

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Ravensword just owned Saphra's argument, my kracken is pleased.

#7450
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 octobre 2011 - 03:51

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cacharadon wrote...

Ravensword just owned Saphra's argument, my kracken is pleased.


He did no such  thing. He didn't even pose an argument.
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