69153 réponses à ce sujet

[alex90c]

Ravensword wrote...

Like brandishing a firearm in public.

Heavy risk ...

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Aside from the magical renegade/paragon options, I would rather reveal the evidence of Rael's work to prevent Tali from getting exiled. I believe that Rael was in the wrong, that is why he was covering it up and hiding the evidence. You don't hide something unless you know you are guilty.

It was a reckless act with noble intentions. Like when the quarians creating the geth. However, the means of how Rael experimented on the geth was horrific. And even Tali says on her loyalty mission that it made her sick, she was horrified by what was done to them.

This is because she has a perspective where Rael didn't. I think that on some level, Tali believes that the geth have a sort of limited sentience. Otherwise, why would she express discomfort at the experiments on the geth?

[Ravensword]

alex90c wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Like brandishing a firearm in public.

Heavy risk ...

... but the priiize.

[Ravensword]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Aside from the magical renegade/paragon options, I would rather reveal the evidence of Rael's work to prevent Tali from getting exiled. I believe that Rael was in the wrong, that is why he was covering it up and hiding the evidence. You don't hide something unless you know you are guilty.

Don't forget about the option to rally the crowd to get out of having to
present the evidence to the admirtalty board and clearing her of the
charges. He was absolutely in the wrong but the evidence is also quite volatile and has the potential to threaten the stability of the Fleet. I'm for holding on to the data for whatever good it might do.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

It was a reckless act with noble intentions. Like when the quarians creating the geth. However, the means of how Rael experimented on the geth was horrific. And even Tali says on her loyalty mission that it made her sick, she was horrified by what was done to them. This is because she has a perspective where Rael didn't. I think that on
some level, Tali believes that the geth have a sort of limited
sentience. Otherwise, why would she express discomfort at the
experiments on the geth?

Well, they say that the path to hell is paved w/ good intentions. I think that if you want to reveal the evidence and the fact that the Geth were and invovled party in this situation, they deserve to know everything as well. This is obviously going to cause war between the Quarians and the Geth, but it's in the interest of not covering anything up.

As for the emboldened text, it's been awhile since I did her loyalty mission but I think she may have been more horrified about the fact that they were deliberately reactivating the Geth and not so much the experiments the Quarians were performing on the Geth.

Anyways, I'm all for preserving the stability of the Fleet and making peace w/ the Geth but at the same time the people deserve to know what happened on the Alarei. It is an injustice to w/hold that information from people who lost loved one on the Alarei. I hope the evidence is something that can be held onto indefinitely; until the Reaper menace is resolved.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

[DoNotIngest]

Hellbound555 wrote...

look at this...

Ravensword wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Like brandishing a firearm in public.

Heavy risk ...

... but the priiize.

*Applause and tears of awesomeness*



You can always justify hiding the evidence with deciding that three reckless Admirals with varying radical plans will definitely not respond appropriately to the discovery of a major advantage over the Geth in warfare.


But really, even if it wasn't so much "Telling the family the truth" VS "Keeping the Fleet intact", you've got to think about just what this "truth" is. Everyone but the Marines who died trying to take back the Alarei was in on the project; This makes them almost as bad of a war criminal as Rael in the eyes of the Quarian people. Wouldn't it be better to leave them with the fond memories and not the information that would forever taintthe image of their loved ones in their eyes and the eyes of those around them?

I mean, for the Marines, "the truth" isn't so heavy. You make your living in constant firefights, it's not unlikely that you'll end up shot yourself. "Rogue Geth" would probably be satisfactory for most of their loved ones.



Not that I just like giving Tali as much solace as possible. No, not that at all.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:17 .

[Stanley Woo]

Some off-topic discussion removed. Let's all please remember to stay on topic, whether you like Tali or not, and to please keep the bickering, insults, name-calling and swearing out of the discussion. Thank you.

[Nashiktal]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

look at this...

Ravensword wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Like brandishing a firearm in public.

Heavy risk ...

... but the priiize.

*Applause and tears of awesomeness*



You can always justify hiding the evidence with deciding that three reckless Admirals with varying radical plans will definitely not respond appropriately to the discovery of a major advantage over the Geth in warfare.


But really, even if it wasn't so much "Telling the family the truth" VS "Keeping the Fleet intact", you've got to think about just what this "truth" is. Everyone but the Marines who died trying to take back the Alarei was in on the project; This makes them almost as bad of a war criminal as Rael in the eyes of the Quarian people. Wouldn't it be better to leave them with the fond memories and not the information that would forever taintthe image of their loved ones in their eyes and the eyes of those around them?

I mean, for the Marines, "the truth" isn't so heavy. You make your living in constant firefights, it's not unlikely that you'll end up shot yourself. "Rogue Geth" would probably be satisfactory for most of their loved ones.



Not that I just like giving Tali as much solace as possible. No, not that at all.

Really? Everyone? Even the janitor replacing the light bulbs, the chef handing out the food? We don't have any direct proof but the alerai is a big ship. It takes a lot of people to keep the ship running, especially when you literally have to live on it and keep it running indefinitely. Rael was also trying to keep his project a secret. Having the entire ship know about the project while keeping it a secret is just infeasible.

Although I think to argue this further we need to establish how much the quarians know in general. We know that if we save the ship, the quarians of coure search it. Admiral xen apparently discovers the truth considering the email she sent you.

Which bring up another question, if the truth is discovered regardless, why doesn't rael get his name stripped from the records? If the truth is discovered why does tali remained exiled if she was indeed exiled?

[ZenJestr]

because only Xen got it and she wants to keep it for herself to further her own political ideas...she could've shown it to the others, but she knows that would just cause a ****storm so she saw more value in keeping it to herself to further Rael's plans and advance on her own...



that's what I think, at least...

Modifié par ZenJestr, 24 octobre 2011 - 06:27 .

[HellBovine]

Nashiktal wrote...

Really? Everyone? Even the janitor replacing the light bulbs, the chef handing out the food? We don't have any direct proof but the alerai is a big ship. It takes a lot of people to keep the ship running, especially when you literally have to live on it and keep it running indefinitely. Rael was also trying to keep his project a secret. Having the entire ship know about the project while keeping it a secret is just infeasible.

Although I think to argue this further we need to establish how much the quarians know in general. We know that if we save the ship, the quarians of coure search it. Admiral xen apparently discovers the truth considering the email she sent you.

Which bring up another question, if the truth is discovered regardless, why doesn't rael get his name stripped from the records? If the truth is discovered why does tali remained exiled if she was indeed exiled?

It is hard to know what sort of duties were performed by who on the lab ship. For all we know the lab ship was only a temporary workplace for given experiments. For example, the mother who is telling her son to be brave for daddy is obviously not a crewmember of the ship, as her husband (or quarian equivalant word) and son were not living with her. It is possible that all people on the Alerai were actively involved in the project.

The only reason t hey would strip Rael's name at the trial is because it is revealed to the general public. The admirals have no interest in posthumously dishonoring one of their own and casting doubts as to their own leadership and whether they had any links themselves to Rael's work. The admirals would understand that public outcry at the revelation of this could split the fleet, so they have a vested interest in keeping it secret.  Once the information is public knowledge they have no choice but to exile him, but otherwise it is best to keep it to themselves even if just for their own self-interest like miss Xen.

We can't know whether or not Tali is going to be unexiled in ME3, but it could happen.

Modifié par HellBovine, 24 octobre 2011 - 06:39 .

[Zkyire]

Hellbound555 wrote...

look at this...

Looks like she's about to execute somebody off-screen lol

[Nashiktal]

I like Tali cosplay, too bad the human head isn't as thin and small as a quarians, because of that Tali cosplayers get bubble head.

[Zkyire]

Nashiktal wrote...

And that is one reason why I hate character threads. Sure loving a character is great, but these character threads forcing discussion and debate into only praise is ridiculous.

/stand
/applause
/sit

[DeltaUnknown]

Nashiktal wrote...

And that is one reason why I hate character threads. Sure loving a character is great, but these character threads forcing discussion and debate into only praise is ridiculous.

Then I believe a good image, that could also double as kill the praising mood would be acceptable:

[exelsis]

DeltaUnknown wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

And that is one reason why I hate character threads. Sure loving a character is great, but these character threads forcing discussion and debate into only praise is ridiculous.

Then I believe a good image, that could also double as kill the praising mood would be acceptable:

This is the true story of my first playthrough of ME2. 3 red rings during the normandy crash site mission.

[DeltaUnknown]

exelsis wrote...

DeltaUnknown wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

And that is one reason why I hate character threads. Sure loving a character is great, but these character threads forcing discussion and debate into only praise is ridiculous.

Then I believe a good image, that could also double as kill the praising mood would be acceptable:

This is the true story of my first playthrough of ME2. 3 red rings during the normandy crash site mission.

This is coming from the same artist that created the Panty & Stocking version of Tali. And quoting her words:

"In life there is no reset button, if you really try you may get a second chance but no more, no reset in life... no reset..."

Yeah long story short, my friend missed his chance with Tali and said he'd just reset the Xbox, which got me thinking: Isn't it kinda sad how if you miss the girl or the situation in the game you just press reset and everythings fine and yet in real life, will you know no reset button?

Anywho, after I got to think about the game situation with Shepard and Tali, and what if, you only had one chance to get the girl, what if you failed, what if you get it? Just thinking...

Basically it is inspired for those who love Tali but unfortunately blew their chance to have her as LI, hence the Ring and Tali and Shepard crying, kinda puts you on perspective, doesn't it?

I was the one that mentioned her about a second chance, what if Tali can be romanced on ME3, how would things go if Shepard never said anything, or if he was unsure at the time of ME2? Would things go sweetly as ME2 or it would be harder for both of them?

Modifié par DeltaUnknown, 24 octobre 2011 - 11:26 .

[DoNotIngest]

DeltaUnknown wrote...
I was the one that mentioned her about a second chance, what if Tali can be romanced on ME3, how would things go if Shepard never said anything, or if he was unsure at the time of ME2? Would things go sweetly as ME2 or it would be harder for both of them?

I fear the Tali pounce only grows in power with time. It may prove fatal should Shepard wait until ME3.

[Cheese of Borg]

DeltaUnknown wrote...

For me it went a little like this:

[Orion1836]

Tali is on page 2? For shame...

[Ravensword]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

Still, aside from letting friends and family members of everyone who died on Alarei know what happened, the evidence should be declassified eventually to keep this from happening again, on the condition that the Quarians drop the treason charges on Rael and  find him guilty of gross negligence. That's what the evidence suggests anyways. But I will agree that during the trial the evidence shouldn't be revealed.

[aiDvEoN]

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

Still, aside from letting friends and family members of everyone who died on Alarei know what happened, the evidence should be declassified eventually to keep this from happening again, on the condition that the Quarians drop the treason charges on Rael and  find him guilty of gross negligence. That's what the evidence suggests anyways. But I will agree that during the trial the evidence shouldn't be revealed.

Its too bad for him that if the negligence endangers the fleet, then as far as they're concerned, its treason.  Be it with malice aforethought or simple misadventure, they do not tolerate even the vaguest hint of something that may bear a passing resemblance to what may or may not be a threat to fleet safety.   After all, Tali faced treason charges for bringing Geth parts to the fleet, because they might have reactivated.

[Ravensword]

aiDvEoN wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

Still, aside from letting friends and family members of everyone who died on Alarei know what happened, the evidence should be declassified eventually to keep this from happening again, on the condition that the Quarians drop the treason charges on Rael and  find him guilty of gross negligence. That's what the evidence suggests anyways. But I will agree that during the trial the evidence shouldn't be revealed.

Its too bad for him that if the negligence endangers the fleet, then as far as they're concerned, its treason.  Be it with malice aforethought or simple misadventure, they do not tolerate even the vaguest hint of something that may bear a passing resemblance to what may or may not be a threat to fleet safety.   After all, Tali faced treason charges for bringing Geth parts to the fleet, because they might have reactivated.

Regardless, they make a deal to declassify the evidence and reveal the evidence to the entire Fleet, in exchange for finding him guilty of gross negligence, It's like a posthumous plea bargain. However, Rael is indeed a war criminal for performing brutal experiments on POWs. Should the Admiralty Board consider that as well or are they not going to care about that b/c of the fact that the POWs were reactivated Geth?

The most they could've charged Tali w/ was complicity but that wouldn't work b/c she had no idea of what her father was actually doing.

[Pharos]

Ravensword wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

Still, aside from letting friends and family members of everyone who died on Alarei know what happened, the evidence should be declassified eventually to keep this from happening again, on the condition that the Quarians drop the treason charges on Rael and  find him guilty of gross negligence. That's what the evidence suggests anyways. But I will agree that during the trial the evidence shouldn't be revealed.

Its too bad for him that if the negligence endangers the fleet, then as far as they're concerned, its treason.  Be it with malice aforethought or simple misadventure, they do not tolerate even the vaguest hint of something that may bear a passing resemblance to what may or may not be a threat to fleet safety.   After all, Tali faced treason charges for bringing Geth parts to the fleet, because they might have reactivated.

Regardless, they make a deal to declassify the evidence and reveal the evidence to the entire Fleet, in exchange for finding him guilty of gross negligence, It's like a posthumous plea bargain. However, Rael is indeed a war criminal for performing brutal experiments on POWs. Should the Admiralty Board consider that as well or are they not going to care about that b/c of the fact that the POWs were reactivated Geth?

The most they could've charged Tali w/ was complicity but that wouldn't work b/c she had no idea of what her father was actually doing.

Why do you assume the quarians don't realise what really happened anyway? Depending on how you play things without actually revealing what happened, at least three quarians know exactly what Rael was up to and don't tell anyone either (Daro'Xen (finds out while poking around the Alarei), Han'Gerrel (Shep tells him) and Kal'Reegar (figures it out for himself)) ...Would none of the other 17kk quarians really not see through Shep's rather laughable 'cover-up'?

There is a time for a species to face its ugly home-truths; doing it when the species in question is teetering on the brink of extinction (when maintaining unity is paramount), and when the entire galaxy is just months away from a visit from the Reapers is not it.

Modifié par Pharos, 25 octobre 2011 - 02:21 .

[Ravensword]

Pharos wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I believe she mentions that it was terrible, and that she didn't want to know whether or not Rael had a part to play in it. That was when they were looking onto parts of a geth that had been experimented on. It is open to interpretation I guess.

And I agree, innocents did die on the Alarei, but Rael received retribution for that. It isn't necessary for the quarians to know what he did, but it is preferable to having Tali exiled. Which is why I prefer a paragone/renegade response, or inciting the crowd.

Still, aside from letting friends and family members of everyone who died on Alarei know what happened, the evidence should be declassified eventually to keep this from happening again, on the condition that the Quarians drop the treason charges on Rael and  find him guilty of gross negligence. That's what the evidence suggests anyways. But I will agree that during the trial the evidence shouldn't be revealed.

Its too bad for him that if the negligence endangers the fleet, then as far as they're concerned, its treason.  Be it with malice aforethought or simple misadventure, they do not tolerate even the vaguest hint of something that may bear a passing resemblance to what may or may not be a threat to fleet safety.   After all, Tali faced treason charges for bringing Geth parts to the fleet, because they might have reactivated.

Regardless, they make a deal to declassify the evidence and reveal the evidence to the entire Fleet, in exchange for finding him guilty of gross negligence, It's like a posthumous plea bargain. However, Rael is indeed a war criminal for performing brutal experiments on POWs. Should the Admiralty Board consider that as well or are they not going to care about that b/c of the fact that the POWs were reactivated Geth?

The most they could've charged Tali w/ was complicity but that wouldn't work b/c she had no idea of what her father was actually doing.

Why do you assume the quarians don't realise what really happened anyway? Depending on how you play things without actually revealing what happened, at least three quarians know exactly what Rael was up to and don't tell anyone either (Daro'Xen (finds out while poking around the Alarei), Han'Gerrel (Shep tells him) and Kal'Reegar (figures it out for himself)) ...Would none of the other 17kk quarians really not see through Shep's rather laughable 'cover-up'?

There is a time for a species to face its ugly home-truths; doing it when the species in question is teetering on the brink of extinction (when maintaining unity is paramount), and when the entire galaxy is just months away from a visit from the Reapers is not it.

Yeah, just three, while 16,999,997 can only speculate as to how and why the Geth attacked the Alarei. As far as everyone else is concerned, what happened on the Alarei was not Tali's fault, not that they even knew what was happening in the first place. Saving the Alarei is enough for them to be inclined to believe Shepard. Not to mention the fact that the trial was ,ore like a sham since each admiral to forward his/her own agenda than actually being about Tali.

Yes, I agree w/ you. I never said that they they should revealthe evidence right away. If you want you can argue this w/ Saphra Deden. I think she enjoys arguing about this.