69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

deleted

Modifié par Quole, 16 novembre 2011 - 10:01 .

[Tom80]

Back to topic please...

[DoNotIngest]

Arcian wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arcian wrote...

JD, you're being just as much of an annoyance as the Talimancers you're trying to rile up.

Probably more, since it's a thread ABOUT Tali, and anyone who doesn't like the fact that other people like Tali can just not read the thread.  But, for some reason, some people can't abide anyone else liking something they don't like.

I can't obviously speak for everyone, but I personally do not actually dislike Tali even though my distaste for Talimancers may imply such. In fact, she's okay. I'm not cool with how she was written in ME2 (mostly I'm pissed that none of her missions are actually about HER), but that's something I can live with.

What I truly dislike is the gigantic, unwashed mass of morons who count themselves to this fandom. I do not dislike them because they like Tali - it is their right to do so, as it is my right to like Garrus or Legion or Mordin, etc. What makes me dislike them is that they refuse to shut up about the fact that they like Tali, and that they see themselves and their character as superior to everything else. For example, I may like Garrus more than I like Tali, but that does not per definition make Garrus the superior character.

What's more, their idiotic, loudmouthed behavior is tarnishing the very term Talimancer to the point where it is widely considered derogatory by non-Talimancers. If the entire fandom had been a corrupted blob of cancer this would not have been a problem, but as it stands there are a lot of Talimancers who are normal, cool people who just like an awesome character without mocking other people's favorites and making a big fuss about it. Even if the good Talimancers do not mind being associated with a bunch of idiots, I personally think it is an unforgivable travesty that should be rectified. The good Talimancers deserve more, and the bad ones deserve less.

Maybe the problem is a prevalence of Y-chromosomes? And boy how I look forward to being relentlessly mocked for writing this.

See, I think I know why, at first glance, this wouldn't really make sense to me. I wasn't on the BSN until several months after the Tali threads were flying through dozens of pages a day (*points to 10k+ page Tali thread in evidence*). Notice how some days this thread doesn't even turn a page? I do believe *most* of the "unwashed peasant Talimancers" have retreated from the BSN, or at least, aren't posting in the public forums.


Not character/fan bashing here, but from what I've seen, it's now Miranda fans that seem to be the ones claiming their character is beyond all others (*points to "Miranda's a more powerful biotic than Jack!" discussion and MEfanforlife in evidence*).


However, this will probably change in a couple of months. Look at Miranda's dissapointing (to her fans; I'm neutral here) and rather lacking content. This will mean a lot of conversation urging Bioware to reconsider (and, yes, character hate; That's a given for any character). But with little to discuss, Miranda discussion will likely die down a fair bit, and be more directed towards appreciation threads.


Now, look at Tali in ME3. There are, apparently, three resolutions to the Geth/Quarian conflict. One is a Talimancer dream, that has had countless hundreds, if not thousands, of fanfics written on it. Now look at her romance arc. From some of the dialogue, it seems Bioware is giving a big toast to Tali's fans, and she'll have a large amount of likable content (*points to Drunk Tali convo*). Now, a lot of that (especially the bit in parentheses) is also very fanfic-ish; The point is, that kind of fanfic is meant to satisfy one's love of a character beyond what the game can accomodate. ME3 is, basically, going to contain a great deal of fanfic that would make many Talimancers (particularly the unwashed peasant variety) squee long and loudly.


Then there's this; BW's polls show that the vast majority of ME3 players want to see Tali's face in ME3. Now look at how much other content (Not contained to Tali by any means, but will not give examples so as not to spoil non-Tali related material) is exactly what a lot of people have been wistfully wishing for and fanfic'ing/Character Thread'ing on for ages. It's fan pandering, straight and simple. I use that term neutrally, let me make clear, not being derogatory; If it makes them happy, go for it.


To sum it up; Tali's got sh!tloads of content and screentime, more dialogue than ever, her story/romance will make fanboys explode with pleasure, and we're pretty much guaranteed to see her face due to popular demand.



Arcy, I have a bad feeling your horde of unwashed peasants will be back for ME3, exponentially larger. Any reveal will doubtless be beautiful, as Fan Pandering Effect 3 dictates. So this horde will be further riled up & divided with either pure awe & worship or mass hatred. And arguments WILL abound. Likely resulting in trolling throughout all forums and posts like never before. Also incensing loads of brand-new Talihaters, especially those whose character already got the shaft in the final game and who now have to put up with the spam.



Now, me being a troll dictates that this will prove highly entertaining for me. But seeing as how you generally strive to tell people straight-on to grow up and stop with their idiocy, I'm getting a twinge of guilt about that. Just brace yourself, is all.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 16 novembre 2011 - 10:59 .

[ZenJestr]

wait are you saying that Tali is getting all of the awesome but the other 'mances get next to no attention?

If that's the case I can totally see why people are getting upset. BW should give every 'mance satisfying story arcs...

then again, they did say that this script was old......so maybe they do have something planned? (I haven't read the spoilers btw, the only spoilers I know are the s/s romances and the spoilers that are in this thread)

[JeffZero]

Some Tali fans actually end up keeping their appreciation for the character on the down-low because the whole situation has turned into a bad case of FFVII syndrome. (For those not in the know, FFVII is a great game [IMO; your mileage will always vary!] that wound up receiving more praise than anything ever should receive, and thus legions of anti-FFVIIers came about, proudly proclaiming to this day some fourteen years later that FFVII is the pinnacle of garbage and absolutely horrendous.)

Sound familiar? I spot not one but two anti-Tali groups on BSN every time I click the 'groups' button. I don't like dealing with people who have nothing better to do than routinely insult the things that I like, so I don't often bring it up. But yeah, Tali is my favorite female character in the series. In large part due to her presence in ME2, actually, although I know that sometimes goes at-odds with what her fandom generally states.

I don't feel like she was damsel'd in 2, although I wouldn't have minded a bit more of her saving Shepard rather than the vice versa ad nauseum. But there simply wasn't enough of her in 1, and I didn't 'get it' until the sequel.

[NuclearBuddha]

I really don't get the loathing for women needing to be saved. I mean, doesn't anyone like to feel needed?

[DoNotIngest]

ZenJestr wrote...

wait are you saying that Tali is getting all of the awesome but the other 'mances get next to no attention?

If that's the case I can totally see why people are getting upset. BW should give every 'mance satisfying story arcs...

then again, they did say that this script was old......so maybe they do have something planned? (I haven't read the spoilers btw, the only spoilers I know are the s/s romances and the spoilers that are in this thread)

Well, let's see...


Jacob gets completely stereotyped and has a brief, horrendous cameo about it.

Miranda gets one mission, longer than most non-perm ME2 characters, but due to content her fans are upset.

Thane gets one mission and he either dies after or he doesn't. At best it's another one-conversation kind of deal.

Didn't read Kelly's bit, but it'll be small too, no doubt.

Nothing was menitioned mance-wise on Samara.

Jack has one mission, and probably one long conversation, but her fans are also upset due to changes.

VS is written to be... Well, it's just baaaad. Though, if you can somehow ignore what happens, it's always possible their 'mance will be decent.


To be fair, you'll probably (maybe?) get a chance to sex them up on the Normandy one last time if you stay faithful to your 'ship. But honestly, that's just a part of the one romance conversation, amirite?


Really, the only ones I can see coming out nicely besides Tali are Garrus & Liara. Vega's a new guy, so probably him, too. The other two newbies aren't really romanceable, as far as I've been able to tell. So not only will there be a high concentration of luvvin' for Tali, Garrus & Liara, but an incredible amount of ragin' and hatin' from everyone else.




EDIT: @Nuc; Well, the only male I can recall needing saving in ME has been Garrus. And that was him being suicidal, so he really wasn't expecting or necessarily wanting ('til he found out about Shep) to be saved. I think people want more backbone in these women who are supposedly some of the Galaxy's finest fighters/specialists. At least save Shep back with a flare of badassery, y'know?

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 16 novembre 2011 - 11:46 .

[JeffZero]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I really don't get the loathing for women needing to be saved. I mean, doesn't anyone like to feel needed?

Certainly. I don't have a big, big issue with it. I do like to see women saving men on occasion though, just... because. You know? It's refreshing. All I'm saying is, I certainly wouldn't have been opposed to Tali doing a bit of Shepard-saving at some point in ME2, but it's not exactly a problem for me that it didn't happen.

To me, the issue comes when a female character in a game with a more modern setting falls all over herself, with lines that insult the gender's capabilities and a very Peach-esque presentation. Thankfully, that really hasn't happened in Mass Effect, and it certainly hasn't happened with Tali.

[Axelstall]

I'm back, haven't been here in a while but I have scrolled through the last few pages.
So... Let's begin.


DoNotIngest, I see your still posting here, and making sense. (At least to me) Plus you, Arcian, haven't seen you before but you make sense too. (Again, at least to me) Let's just hope I'm not a creepy/super fanboy. (I would hate to turn into my enemy sort o' deal right?)


As for Tali's behavior, It's fine to me, as long as BioWare doesn't make her any more trip-over herself because of Shepard than she is. To me she'd be borderlining giddy shcoolgirl if they make her like that all the time. (And that would make her annoying. It would be WAY Too over the top there.)


Even though I'm a guy I do like to see bad*** women on occasion. Like the intro vid for Star Wars the Old Republic when you choose Sith. That Bounty Hunter girl was EPIC.


All the Humans in Mass Effect kinda bored me. (Don't know why) Jacob was just kinda dull (To me), Jack was the most interesting of them all (Because of her background), and VS was kinda dull as well (Again, to me), to me Kelly is just my receptionist, nothing more, nothing less, and then we have Miranda, don't get me wrong she's ok, but I'm not into nor do I care much for Human females in scifi that are out of proportion physically AND have british accents, they seem to, generic.
Personally, my favorite characters are in this order, (Besides the Human squadmates): Tali, Wrex, Garrus, Legion, Joker, Liara, Grunt, Thane and Samara. (If I missed one thats my fault) (And this is my personal opinion)


Last thing, Please, Please don't make Tali some "Southern Belle" character, that would probably kill me a little inside, (Kinda like when they made Captain Price in CoD the main character, that pissed me off) Keep Tali a strong capable person BioWare. (That was my rant, and plea)


Anyway, fanboys will come, and I'll be ready, will you?


May the force be with all of us. And Keelah Sel'ai. (Hope I spelled it right)

Modifié par Axelstall, 17 novembre 2011 - 02:17 .

[TLock_Supreme]

Personally I do not see the point of trolling, I see a troll post and laugh. I respect all Tali fans, I mean we are all here because we either like a trait of her, respect her as an individual and so on. People who believe that their favorite character is better than the next is wrong, we all have our own opinions and must respect those of other .As for the Tali development for ME3 I just hope they keep up the good work on her development I like how they made her grow throughout ME1 and ME2. Sorry if this is off topic, I will run away and hide now.

[magnuskn]

I find it incredible that the response from some Tali fans about somebody calling them a.) peaseants / plebeians and then b.)  going on a super trollish rant about how horrible Tali fans are ( in completely generalizing terms, to boot ) is apparently to nod assent and try to distance themselves from the ficticious "bad Tali fans".

I'd like to point out that the current fanbase of Tali are intelligent and articulate people who, contrary to the "anti-Tali" crowd, do not invade the fan-threads of other fanbases to talk crap about the that character and their fans. I know that there were some issues with excessive spamming in the giant Tali fan-thread after the release of ME2, but while those times are over, we still get people threadcrapping here and then daring to tell us that we are somehow "over the top".

[OfficerDonNZ]

This is why I gave up on fan threads years ago. Nothing good can come of them. Well that's not entirely true of course. But trolling and flame wars can and do happen and can get quite nasty.

On the old Bio boards there was the NWN2 Shirtless Saga threads. Most of the time is was quite fun but every so often we'd have a mini flame war brake out and it could get nasty.

[JeffZero]

magnuskn wrote...

I find it incredible that the response from some Tali fans about somebody calling them a.) peaseants / plebeians and then b.)  going on a super trollish rant about how horrible Tali fans are ( in completely generalizing terms, to boot ) is apparently to nod assent and try to distance themselves from the ficticious "bad Tali fans".

I'd like to point out that the current fanbase of Tali are intelligent and articulate people who, contrary to the "anti-Tali" crowd, do not invade the fan-threads of other fanbases to talk crap about the that character and their fans. I know that there were some issues with excessive spamming in the giant Tali fan-thread after the release of ME2, but while those times are over, we still get people threadcrapping here and then daring to tell us that we are somehow "over the top".

Nah, I'm not looking at it the way you're insinuating that I am... that is to say, if you're directing that at me to any extent. I'm typing very generally here -- throughout history, the vastly-appreciated are often slandered for no good reason but to slander, and that is what has occured with Tali. Conversely, however, there have been some very over-the-top, narrow-minded Tali fans, as there have been for everything under the sun, and as there have been for almost every squadmate in the series.

It's nothing new or unique to Talimancers. I don't distance myself from regular quarian discussion because I find anyone here remotely offensive. I do so because I don't have the patience to deal with the hatemongering from the folks who get their jollies off on dissing Tali's character. Well, that and because the OP makes mention of discussing Tali predominately, and I actually tend to find quarian culture as a whole produces more thought-provoking conversation.

Sense has indeed been made, Neurotics, but I don't feel like it was applicable in my case.

Modifié par JeffZero, 17 novembre 2011 - 01:45 .

[JeffZero]

An understandable reaction.

Frankly, I'm surprised no keyboards have been broken as yet on my end. I'm actually a pretty patient guy despite that little contradiction in my passage up there, it's just... let me rephrase that bit in retrospect: it's not that I don't have the patience, it's that I like how calm I can continually present myself as (for the most part...) and don't want to see what would happen if that ever cracked.

>_>

[JeffZero]

That's one major reason I haven't gotten involved in much online gaming. Although I used to play Metal Gear Online, and some of its player base's antics... enraged me. I never broke any PS3 controllers, but I think if I hadn't quit that would have soon changed.

Good thing, then. PS3 controllers are even more expensive than 360 controllers. Speaking of which, damn, controllers are expensive these days.

[Axelstall]

TLock_Supreme wrote...

Personally I do not see the point of trolling, I see a troll post and laugh. I respect all Tali fans, I mean we are all here because we either like a trait of her, respect her as an individual and so on. People who believe that their favorite character is better than the next is wrong, we all have our own opinions and must respect those of other .As for the Tali development for ME3 I just hope they keep up the good work on her development I like how they made her grow throughout ME1 and ME2. Sorry if this is off topic, I will run away and hide now.

It's not off topic, technically it is but right now what you posted about is the topic.

EDIT: I was wrong, controllers/keyboards is the topic.

Modifié par Axelstall, 17 novembre 2011 - 02:14 .

[JeffZero]

Neurotics wrote...

I can't stop playing multiplayer, it's just to addicting.
Well, that and the rage makes for some really  funny live coms.

Haha, no doubt.

[DoNotIngest]

@Jeff

Magnus is talking about Arcian when he refers to someone calling Talimancers peasants/plebes. Though if you felt it applied to you too, it doesn't really matter, I s'pose


@Neurotics

From what I heard of you that one time, listening to you rage over the mic would be quite entertaining, methinks...

magnuskn wrote...

I find it incredible that the response from some Tali fans about somebody calling them a.) peaseants / plebeians and then b.)  going on a super trollish rant about how horrible Tali fans are ( in completely generalizing terms, to boot ) is apparently to nod assent and try to distance themselves from the ficticious "bad Tali fans".

I'd like to point out that the current fanbase of Tali are intelligent and articulate people who, contrary to the "anti-Tali" crowd, do not invade the fan-threads of other fanbases to talk crap about the that character and their fans. I know that there were some issues with excessive spamming in the giant Tali fan-thread after the release of ME2, but while those times are over, we still get people threadcrapping here and then daring to tell us that we are somehow "over the top".

Arcian is referring to the veritable horde of rather tasteless Talimancers from way back when. They aren't ficticious, they've just either left, retreated to Clan Zorah (which, I may add, is predominantly made of sensible, reasonable people. Don't get me wrong here), or moved on to the Tali-centric websites that have been created. Or are just lying low 'til they recieve another dose of Mass Effect. He usually mentions when he finds a Tali fan reasonable and stepping over his expectations, and everything's fine from there on with said person.


Indeed, most of the contributors to this thread *are* quite responsable, mature people (Excluding DNI, of course). You'll also have noticed how very few of us there are. Probably because, being decent (Or in my case, having trollish resistance), they aren't trolled as much. Probably because we aren't the types to blubber on about Tali outside of this thread or designated threads/groups. Though, there are still plenty of idiots who troll like it's 2010. But I find mild pity and strong amusement to be my first reactions to these people with so little better to do with their times (As I am a very, very productive person. Clearly.)


Though, there are still some bad ones. Case in point: Scourge King (Though he hasn't been around for a few days now). Shame, too, it's a nice username to be wasted like that. Expert science points to ancient Egyptian Pharaohs being hybrid aliens/humans, so Qumans, totally possible. Don'tchaknow.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 17 novembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[Axelstall]

JeffZero wrote...

Neurotics wrote...

I can't stop playing multiplayer, it's just to addicting.
Well, that and the rage makes for some really  funny live coms.

Haha, no doubt.

So true, so true.
(START OFF TOPIC)  Why I had one confrontation about two months ago in a game of Halo how I was camping (Or something I stopped paying attention very quickly) and the other player continued to insist I was playing wrong for about, 12 minutes, afterwards he began to repeat his words but repeat them in a fashion that no human could understand. It was a good time. (To me at least).  (END OFF TOPIC)