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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*


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#9426
Nashiktal

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

We're talking about her face again? It seems like half this thread is on that topic.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind it if Tali's face somewhat resembled her VA's. In fact, I think it kind of fits.


The problem isn't with tali looking like Sroka, the problem is that with ME's level of face capturing, it would hit the uncanny valley and NOT look that great. You know sheps rape face that gets posted and made fun of all the time? That's part of the uncanny valley.

Compare shep and miranda's face to say... Jack's. See the big leap in quality?


Edit: Also if you don' want to talk about her face you are free to come up with a topic you know.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 03 décembre 2011 - 01:04 .


#9427
Someone With Mass

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How about some more Tali lines from the script to spice things up?

*spoiler*

You were happy before.


This was supposed to be my father's fight. But he left me with all of this.


You've given up so much, stood for too long without allies. I didn't want you to do this alone.


So if you're ever lonely... just let me know.


Unless you'd rather be alone. We've got the war... several, in fact. And if you're not interested...


It wasn't so bad when it happened. I had you.


Do I still... have you?


Hey. You're not alone.


I'm here for you.

*spoiler*

She's so nice.

#9428
Dilandau3000

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Nashiktal wrote...

I definitely don't want Ash's face on tali. All that would do is create the uncanny valley effect. Its bad enough with sheps raep face, and miranda's... Face. Doing that to Tali would just be creepy.

Oh, I agree, Tali's face shouldn't be just like Ash's, because as I said above it'd be too human (and you're also right about the uncanny valley effect of ME's face modeling). But if the 3D modelers sat down and designed a proper alien face for her while keeping Ash's face in the back of their minds, I think that could work. But if they can come up with something better, more power to them.

It's an interesting juxtaposition. I love Tali's personality, but have no idea what she looks like under the mask, while I love Ash Sroka's looks but have no idea what her personality is like. Posted Image

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:21 .


#9429
RogueWriter3201

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Nashiktal wrote...

I definitely don't want Ash's face on tali. All that would do is create the uncanny valley effect. Its bad enough with sheps raep face, and miranda's... Face. Doing that to Tali would just be creepy.


Sorry, but that doesn't seem very accurate and appears based more on a dislike of the actress behind Miranda then anything else. The fact of the matter is *all* the characters are based on real life people, i.e. Models, etc. What difference does it make if they base the character on the voice actor? The fact is, other then Shepard's appearence, Mass Effect is, in essence, a Science Fiction film one can control, and like a Movie it has actors. If the character the actor is voicing looks like said actor, but with CG effects to change their face and make it appear very alien, i.e. what they did in Cameron's Avatar, or make-up, what would be the difference? When the Mass Effect movie *movie* comes out are people going to complain that the actors in the movie that are alien (other then Wrex and Garrus for obvious reasons) such as the Asari look too much like the people who are playing them?

The fact is, if they use Ashley's face as inspiration for Tali's appearence, but change it enough that it looks very alien, that would make a hell of a lot more sense then making her look like someone/something else entirely. The fact is we already know (though without a ton of details) that Quarians look somewhat Human like thanks to canon references in the novels and comics, so while Tali (I hope) looks alien, she's not going to look like, say, Garrus or Mordin. So, I'd rather they give her a face that is sure to match her voice, and in this case if the actress, i.e. Ashley Sroka, is very pretty it makes a hell of a lot of sense to just use her as the template.
 

#9430
Ruthac_Arus

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To add onto what glenboy is saying, VAs tend to make very good facial expressions and use expressive body language while performing too, which often helps define a character's mannerisms. I know they've been basing facial animations (and approximate looks in some cases) off the vocal performers since ME1, so it seems natural they'd continue that here.

And really, Tali is *very* expressive with her body language, so I'm personally hoping that, if her face is shown, that they'll be able to pull from Ash's performance and make that part of Tali's animated performance brilliant too. Having some structural similarities, whether or not it's very alien, would probably help with the facial animation in that case.

Oh, and nice post SWM. I can almost imagine Shep's end of that conversation... but I'm trying not to think too much on it. T'was smart, just posting some of Tali's lines in isolation- shows the niceness/sweetness, without really being a spoiler. Thanks.

Modifié par Ruthac_Arus, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:52 .


#9431
Someone With Mass

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Ruthac_Arus wrote...

Oh, and nice post SWM. I can almost imagine Shep's end of that conversation... but I'm trying not to think too much on it. T'was smart, just posting some of Tali's lines in isolation- shows the niceness/sweetness, without really being a spoiler. Thanks.


No problem.

It had a few lines I took away, because they involved other romances and most of their other intimate moments have a bit of spoilers about the whole conflict in them, so I thought that this would be good enough.

#9432
Ruthac_Arus

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Someone With Mass wrote...

No problem.

It had a few lines I took away, because they involved other romances and most of their other intimate moments have a bit of spoilers about the whole conflict in them, so I thought that this would be good enough.


*Tips nonexistent hat* Much obliged, good sir. Your thoughtful Tali-related tidbits make the wait for the reunion between Shep, Tali, and the rest of the (admittedly at-times dysfunctional) Normandy family easier to bear.

#9433
Dilandau3000

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Someone With Mass wrote...

It had a few lines I took away, because they involved other romances and most of their other intimate moments have a bit of spoilers about the whole conflict in them, so I thought that this would be good enough.

And it's a good thing too, because otherwise I would've had to sic Tali's drone on you (as per my sig). Posted Image

#9434
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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The more dialogue from the leaked script I see, the more March 6 seems much, much too far away.

Modifié par Cthulhu42, 03 décembre 2011 - 04:20 .


#9435
Nashiktal

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glenboy24 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I definitely don't want Ash's face on tali. All that would do is create the uncanny valley effect. Its bad enough with sheps raep face, and miranda's... Face. Doing that to Tali would just be creepy.


Sorry, but that doesn't seem very accurate and appears based more on a dislike of the actress behind Miranda then anything else. The fact of the matter is *all* the characters are based on real life people, i.e. Models, etc. What difference does it make if they base the character on the voice actor? The fact is, other then Shepard's appearence, Mass Effect is, in essence, a Science Fiction film one can control, and like a Movie it has actors. If the character the actor is voicing looks like said actor, but with CG effects to change their face and make it appear very alien, i.e. what they did in Cameron's Avatar, or make-up, what would be the difference? When the Mass Effect movie *movie* comes out are people going to complain that the actors in the movie that are alien (other then Wrex and Garrus for obvious reasons) such as the Asari look too much like the people who are playing them?

The fact is, if they use Ashley's face as inspiration for Tali's appearence, but change it enough that it looks very alien, that would make a hell of a lot more sense then making her look like someone/something else entirely. The fact is we already know (though without a ton of details) that Quarians look somewhat Human like thanks to canon references in the novels and comics, so while Tali (I hope) looks alien, she's not going to look like, say, Garrus or Mordin. So, I'd rather they give her a face that is sure to match her voice, and in this case if the actress, i.e. Ashley Sroka, is very pretty it makes a hell of a lot of sense to just use her as the template.
 


What are you talking about? I like yvonne, and I like miranda. That doesn't excuse the fact that both shep and miranda have creeper face. Miranda has a wierd skin fold all around her head so that her face looks like an animated mask while shep has those insanely creepy smiles.

You don't seem to be getting why I am against it at all. The only character in ME so far that has had a decent face model was liara. Everyone else is just damn creepy, and I rather they create their own damn face than just copy paste it onto tali and phone it in. That seemed to work great with Jack at least.

Also the very fact you are using AVATAR as an example why they should use face modeling is very telling. Do you not realize the technology and money that had to go into that movie to even achieve that lifeike results?

Modifié par Nashiktal, 03 décembre 2011 - 04:23 .


#9436
mauro2222

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Someone With Mass wrote...

No problem.

It had a few lines I took away, because they involved other romances and most of their other intimate moments have a bit of spoilers about the whole conflict in them, so I thought that this would be good enough.


Oh, I get it... I first thought that it didn't make much sense.

#9437
Nashiktal

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Since we started talking about face modeling I think it would be a good idea if we all familiarized ourselves with what Uncanny Valley means. Extra credits did a nice bit on this for video games.

http://www.penny-arc...-uncanny-valley

http://imageshack.us...iddenskill.jpg/

Modifié par Nashiktal, 03 décembre 2011 - 04:35 .


#9438
PseudoEthnic

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Nashiktal wrote...

You don't seem to be getting why I am against it at all. The only character in ME so far that has had a decent face model was liara. Everyone else is just damn creepy, and I rather they create their own damn face than just copy paste it onto tali and phone it in. That seemed to work great with Jack at least.

You do realize that Jack was based off a model just like the other human/asari characters, right? Besides, other than Miranda(which I don't think is that bad), all of the faces look fine.

#9439
Nashiktal

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PseudoEthnic wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

You don't seem to be getting why I am against it at all. The only character in ME so far that has had a decent face model was liara. Everyone else is just damn creepy, and I rather they create their own damn face than just copy paste it onto tali and phone it in. That seemed to work great with Jack at least.

You do realize that Jack was based off a model just like the other human/asari characters, right? Besides, other than Miranda(which I don't think is that bad), all of the faces look fine.


Ah but jack isn't a direct scan of the face. A difference man! I have nothing against face's being modeled after real people, I have problems with the faces being based on real people, I do have problems with real faces being directly scanned and causing uncanney valley which breaks my immersion.

#9440
Dilandau3000

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I don't really have any problems with Miranda's face. I do however have problems with her teeth. I mean, honestly! Yvonne Strahovski does appear to have slightly largish front-teeth, but not distractingly so. However, for some reason Miranda seems to have chipmunk teeth.

It was honestly the first thought that came into my mind when Miranda first spoke in in ME2:  "what's wrong with your teeth?" And once you've noticed it, you can't unnotice it. "And perhaps I wouldn't mind if you admired my body." "I'm sorry, I'm too busy being distracted by your bloody teeth!"

And now I've ruined her for everyone else. Posted Image

Default MaleShep's appearance is based on a Dutch model (I'm Dutch too). I don't use his default appearance though.

#9441
Cheese of Borg

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If you look in the background of one of the recent bioware pulse episodes, you can see what appears to be an entirely new race as a squad member.....or is it?
www.youtube.com/watch (Jump to time stamp 3:45)

Modifié par Cheese of Borg, 03 décembre 2011 - 07:36 .


#9442
sites32

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Cheese of Borg wrote...

If you look in the background of one of the recent bioware pulse episodes, you can see what appears to be an entirely new race as a squad member.....or is it?
www.youtube.com/watch (Jump to time stamp 3:45)

I believe thats.... OH sorry thats wondering into spoiler territory.

#9443
Dilandau3000

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Are you suggesting that's Tali? I doubt it since neither of the squadmates in that clip appears to have quarian legs.

#9444
Tasha vas Nar Rayya

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None of the aliens hit the uncanny valley for me. Apart from maybe some Asari. So I think we should be safe with quarians.

#9445
Ticktank

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Cheese of Borg wrote...

If you look in the background of one of the recent bioware pulse episodes, you can see what appears to be an entirely new race as a squad member.....or is it?
www.youtube.com/watch (Jump to time stamp 3:45)


ZOMG is that Aria?

#9446
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Dilandau3000 wrote...

I don't really have any problems with Miranda's face. I do however have problems with her teeth. I mean, honestly! Yvonne Strahovski does appear to have slightly largish front-teeth, but not distractingly so. However, for some reason Miranda seems to have chipmunk teeth.


She looks like somebody stuck chiclets over her front teeth.

Incidentally, a friend of mine leaked to me an image of the (sadly deceased) male actor being used to model Miranda's father.


Posted Image

#9447
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Ticktank wrote...

Cheese of Borg wrote...

If you look in the background of one of the recent bioware pulse episodes, you can see what appears to be an entirely new race as a squad member.....or is it?
www.youtube.com/watch (Jump to time stamp 3:45)


ZOMG is that Aria?

Nope, that's Ashley with bugged hair textures.

#9448
mauro2222

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I thought it was Prothy. :crying:

#9449
exelsis

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I still dont get why the reapers took the time to turn
Posted Image
into
Posted Image
tentacle faces into bug men? why put that much effort into it?

#9450
mauro2222

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exelsis wrote...

I still dont get why the reapers took the time to turn

into

tentacle faces into bug men? why put that much effort into it?


Harbinger likes eyes. Not even the human-reaper-baby-larva had two eyes.

Modifié par mauro2222, 03 décembre 2011 - 06:04 .