69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Then again, Tali isn't exactly a professional doctor, so there might be other factors that comes in.

Who knows, maybe there are other ways for them to improve their immune systems and adaptability...

[iceman6773]

Is it possible to genetically change their DNA to strengthen their immune system?

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

It seems that quarians have focussed to much on protecting themselves from germs and bacteria as opposed to actually improving their immune system.

I mean, 150 years in the future and an alien race of individuals so technically advanced that they live in self sufficient ships, create suits that can block of an infection in their body, and can create a semi-sentient robot.

You would think there would be something that allows them to improve their immune system? Besides herbal supplements (although I am curious as to what those herbal supplements are.)

[Someone With Mass]

iceman6773 wrote...

Is it possible to genetically change their DNA to strengthen their immune system?

You'll just have to wait an see what happens.

I don't want to reveal anything, since it's a pretty big moment in the game.

All I can do is tease, tease and tease some more. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

The original "sterile environments over generations have weakened our immune systems" explanation made more sense than "beneficial viruses".

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I have read some of the spoilers from the leak, I admit. But Mass is always the omniscient one when we talk about these sort of things. You must have read every scrap of info.

I bet he is smirking while he posts 'You'll see.' ;P

[Ruthac_Arus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The original "sterile environments over generations have weakened our immune systems" explanation made more sense than "beneficial viruses".

Errm, not so much. Unless quarians are highly prone to drastic yet somehow stable "use it or lose it" mutations, evolution to the point of them all having deficient immune systems on a genetic level isn't possible in just 300 years. Adding in the caveat that their immune systems are more adaption-oriented than resistance-oriented still jives with the "how" explanation that life on the Flotilla wrecked their immune systems, while also adding in the logic of "why", how that was even possible, and why simply birthing the next generation of quarians in a not-so-sterile environment wouldn't solve the problem.

@ Someone With Mass: you awful, awful tease. XD

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ruthac_Arus wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The original "sterile environments over generations have weakened our immune systems" explanation made more sense than "beneficial viruses".

Errm, not so much. Unless quarians are highly prone to drastic yet somehow stable "use it or lose it" mutations, evolution to the point of them all having deficient immune systems on a genetic level isn't possible in just 300 years. Adding in the caveat that their immune systems are more adaption-oriented than resistance-oriented still jives with the "how" explanation that life on the Flotilla wrecked their immune systems, while also adding in the logic of "why", how that was even possible, and why simply birthing the next generation of quarians in a not-so-sterile environment wouldn't solve the problem.

And never mind that the human immune system would suffer a similar problem if several generations of people lived in utterly sterile environments, right?

The human immune system, at least, does a lot of "learning" from exposure.

[Spartanburger]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Tali says that she thinks it would take a long time (60 years) even to re-acclimatize to the homeworld, which would suggest that their immune systems did get weaker. If not, at least new born children on the homeworld should be able to live in the open air immediately and considering quarian life spans I don't think one generation equals sixty years.

But here's the thing, a large portion (in fact, i think it's something like 80%) of a child's immune system developes while in the womb of the mother. At least for humans at least. If the mother's immune system is untrained then the child's will be untrained. It's only through exposure that it can grow strong. "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" is a very good description of it.

This poses an issue. Because childs are in such a delicate state before (and after) birth, it is dangerous to expose mother and child to diseases and bacteria.

Now for the 60 vs 600 year thing.

To safely regenerate a immune system, the Quarians would have to routinely expose themself to atmosphere every now and then (for a short amount of time) to expose their immune system to bacteria and make it stronger. Once the reaction has passed, they repeat the exposure. This exposure could, in theory, be simulated with a program in thier suits but, because immune systems and bacteria are such complex things, nothing short of an AI would be able to do that *ahemspoilercoughcough.* During this time, Quarians would be very weak due to the near constant fighting against illness. Every survived exposire would increase the strength of their immune system.

On Rannoch, because it is a world of native biology to the Quarians, this would take drastically less time than on other planets. The Quarian immune system would be more familiar with bacteria and viruses on Rannoch. Starting from a severely weakened immune system and from a somewhat young age (lets say around 20 standard years) and therefore missing the critical point in childhood where the immune system is 'beefed up,' would mean that the time to get a more functional immune system would be quite a few decades. Chilren from parents with a fully functioning immune system don't normally develope their's until around the age of 10 or even past that. Also consider that the immune system is never 'done' constructing until much later in life when the body starts to deteriorate with age.

If the Quarians settled a different world, they would have to deal with a biology of bacteria and viruses completely foreign to their own. Not only that, but because Quarians are biologically supposed to have a weakened immune system (one that is more symbiotic with the native biology) it would take far more time for the immune system to develop into a system capable of knowing the difference between harmful and beneficial bacteria and pathogens on a foreign world.

At least, that's what I think. Biology wasn't really my strong point.


TotPT:

Modifié par Spartanburger, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ruthac_Arus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Ruthac_Arus wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The original "sterile environments over generations have weakened our immune systems" explanation made more sense than "beneficial viruses".

Errm, not so much. Unless quarians are highly prone to drastic yet somehow stable "use it or lose it" mutations, evolution to the point of them all having deficient immune systems on a genetic level isn't possible in just 300 years. Adding in the caveat that their immune systems are more adaption-oriented than resistance-oriented still jives with the "how" explanation that life on the Flotilla wrecked their immune systems, while also adding in the logic of "why", how that was even possible, and why simply birthing the next generation of quarians in a not-so-sterile environment wouldn't solve the problem.

And never mind that the human immune system would suffer a similar problem if several generations of people lived in utterly sterile environments, right?

The human immune system, at least, does a lot of "learning" from exposure.

Nope, of course I'm not disregarding that. An adult human, raised with no exposure to germs would surely perish. However, on a genetic level that person's offspring wouldn't all of a sudden have no chance to develop a functional immune system if put into the correct environment at an early age. Or the offspring of the first person's offspring. And so on. Similar problem the quarians face, albeit they'll have a tougher time becoming terrestrial again because of the baseline functional differences between their immune systems and humanity's.

I'm not disputing anything except your assertion that ME1's explanation was somehow better, made more sense. The explanations from both games are collaborative, rather than mutually exclusive, and I like how Bioware is exploring various takes on nonhuman biology for the different species.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Spartanburger goes into more detail as to why a mother with an "untrained" immune system is detrimental to a child's immune development.

[witchee2woman]

do u think it would be possible for shephard and tali to have a family?

[witchee2woman]

i was just wondering but ty

[Ruthac_Arus]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Spartanburger goes into more detail as to why a mother with an "untrained" immune system is detrimental to a child's immune development.

Read that after I posted. Had considered how that may play a factor, but didn't feel like doing the research to verify my suspicions and further bloat my typically too-long posts. Did a little research just now, and that factor does indeed play a part in human reproduction at least. Which'll in all likelihood make it even *harder* for quarians to de-suit as a species. Expecting mothers, or those planning to have offspring, will need to train their immune systems through exposure to foreign matter.

Still doesn't affect my primary assertion though: the various explanations we've heard about quarian immune systems between the gams and books are collaborative, not conflicting. There's no "better" here, just more vague in ME1, and more fleshed out in ME2. And then we earn a happy ending in ME3 for the quarians (I'm unspoilered, but given the devs tendencies, no doubt we may earn a happy ending).

Modifié par Ruthac_Arus, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[Spartanburger]

witchee2woman wrote...

do u think it would be possible for shephard and tali to have a family?

Well, considering that her father and mother are dead, there are no known brothers or sisters or relative other than 'Auntie' Raan, she probably has an extremely small current family.

As for children, if she stays with Shepard, adoption is her only option. Gonna be plenty of orphans after the war so that is a very real possibility.

This, of course, depends on your definition of family. Quarian cultire could see family as being shipmates. Personally, I think this is more likely. Quarians on small ships would see the entire crew as a family and treat them as such. On larger ships it may be the local section that they spend most of their time in.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:03 .

[Cheese of Borg]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Alright, I guess I just misunderstood Tali in ME1 then. I just really felt her line about the sterile environment implied they didn't wear the suits on the Migrant Fleet.

I've not yet read the novels, though I've got the first one on my Kindle and I'll start reading it soon.

In the novels it is explained that becouse there is almost no personal space in the fleet, they wear it as a form of privacy.

[sites32]

What i get about quarians and "family" is that they seem closer to others than humans. Tali even says that the quarian people in a whole are a family, accepting and looking out for every quarian. Now who knows how far that acceptance would go if tali brings shepard to the fleet not just as a commander but as a mate. Thou I don't see a huge issue due to the respect the fleet has for shepard.

[Someone With Mass]

Cheese of Borg wrote...

In the novels it is explained that becouse there is almost no personal space in the fleet, they wear it as a form of privacy.

No kidding.

My bathroom is bigger than a quarian family's entire apartment.

[sites32]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cheese of Borg wrote...

In the novels it is explained that becouse there is almost no personal space in the fleet, they wear it as a form of privacy.

No kidding.

My bathroom is bigger than a quarian family's entire apartment.

Well least you wouldn't have to worry about B.O. being a sterile environment and all. You know how it is when your in a small space packed with people.

Modifié par sitesunseen, 04 décembre 2011 - 11:07 .

[sites32]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

Well least you wouldn't have to worry about B.O. being a sterile environment and all. : )

This thread is getting dangerously close to "quarian sweat" territory...

Well its not as bad as the dreaded "Quman" hypothesise.