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[Nashiktal]

glenboy24 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The thing is glenboy, her father WAS her childhood. Thats her whole character arc for ME1 AND 2. She is the daughter of an admiral and all that, and her mother apparently faded in the background.

Actually, Nash, the thing is that's not an accurate summation, in the slightest. Had her mother died when Tali was born, or when Tali was very, *very* young, i.e. still a toddler, then yes, her father would have been her whole life. However, her mother was with her for a good portion of her youth, and while she might not have had a direct or immediate impact on Tali's life in the grand scheme of what was expected of her because of her father's role on the Admirality, she none the less played a part in her development, i.e. the woman Tali became. As such, Tali reflecting on that expands on her life before Shepard and on the character as a whole.

Am I saying it's required for me to love Tali? No. Am I saying that it seemed strange (to me and others) to not focus more on it and that it would simply be nice to have that *extra* layer to the character? Yes. And while you just see Tali as "The Daughter of an Admiral" I do not, nor do I think the writers ever meant to impart that; in point of fact, what I think they meant to impart was how Tali wanted, and was, *more* then just the daughter of an Admiral. She wanted to make her own mark, prove she could stand outside her Father's shadow. And, you know what? She did. And perhaps that had more to do with her mother then anything else. 

Read dilandau's post. He is making the point better than I am. 

And again you are more likely to hear about her mom from raan, who was best friends with her rather than tali who doesn't seem to think or talk much of her.

[Dilandau3000]

sitesunseen wrote...

@exelsis
lol Damn maybe the Alliance should place a therapist onboard the Normandy.

That's what Kelly is for, remember (and she does seem willing to hug absolutely anyone and anything; I'm betting she'd hug Harbinger if given half the chance).

@Someone: she's blushing through her visor? That must've been quite the interrupt.

[Nashiktal]

Its kinda a meme for bioware to give everyone "daddy" issues at this point. Its the easiest and cheapest way to create character development and motivation.

[sites32]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

@exelsis
lol Damn maybe the Alliance should place a therapist onboard the Normandy.

That's what Kelly is for, remember (and she does seem willing to hug absolutely anyone and anything; I'm betting she'd hug Harbinger if given half the chance).

@Someone: she's blushing through her visor? That must've been quite the interrupt.

Ha
Assuming control of this hug...this conforts you.

[Someone With Mass]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

@Someone: she's blushing through her visor? That must've been quite the interrupt.

Well, she's blushing so hard that even Shepard notices it.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 décembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[RogueWriter3201]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What I think it comes down to is that Tali feels like she was defined by her father more than her mother, even if that may not be strictly accurate.

What's more, she didn't seem to want to go into it any further, and maybe the pain of her mother's loss has something to do with that. For Shepard to press her further would be rather rude, especially in ME1 when the two are not yet all that close.

From an out-of-continuity perspective, there's only so many details you can fit into a script. Tali's father is not only important to Tali, he's also important to the story as a whole due to his role in the Migrant Fleet and his experiments with the geth. Naturally, this leads to the writers giving him priority.

Depending on how Shepard broached the subject, it *might* be considered rude. BioWare, however, could easily have a Paragon Shepard coax even painful memories out of Tali because he cares and not just because I, the player, want to know.  Honestly though, there's really nothing that kept Tali from expanding on her relationship with her mother in ME2, especially given Raan's story and then the loss of her Father. Also, there's no reason what-so-ever Shepard would have to go to Raan to be told more about Tali's mother. Why would he ask her when, obviously, he cares more about how Tali feels?

I can concede, from a story perspective, why she might not want to go into detail about her mother in ME1. However, as I've said, I think it would have made things more poignant to have Tali reflect on the loss of her mother given the loss of her father especially given his prominence in her life. Outside the story, as I mentioned in a previous post, and as you indicated, likely Tali just didn't warrent further exposition due to her not being a Love Interest. Obviously, the LIs have a lot more dialogue then the other Squadmates. However, with ME2, regardless of reasoning, it would have been nice and added to the sense of trust and emotional connection between Tali and Shepard.

Regardless, I love the relationship between John and Tali in ME2 and, from what I've read, ME3. The circumstance with her mother's story simply remains something I would like them to expand on. As someone who enjoys BioWare character details I think it would be quite excellent.  

[Dilandau3000]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Well, she's blushing so hard that even Shepard notices it.

Actually, he says he can't tell. It's Tali who gives herself away by blaming it on the fever afterwards.

[RogueWriter3201]

Nashiktal wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The thing is glenboy, her father WAS her childhood. Thats her whole character arc for ME1 AND 2. She is the daughter of an admiral and all that, and her mother apparently faded in the background.

Actually, Nash, the thing is that's not an accurate summation, in the slightest. Had her mother died when Tali was born, or when Tali was very, *very* young, i.e. still a toddler, then yes, her father would have been her whole life. However, her mother was with her for a good portion of her youth, and while she might not have had a direct or immediate impact on Tali's life in the grand scheme of what was expected of her because of her father's role on the Admirality, she none the less played a part in her development, i.e. the woman Tali became. As such, Tali reflecting on that expands on her life before Shepard and on the character as a whole.

Am I saying it's required for me to love Tali? No. Am I saying that it seemed strange (to me and others) to not focus more on it and that it would simply be nice to have that *extra* layer to the character? Yes. And while you just see Tali as "The Daughter of an Admiral" I do not, nor do I think the writers ever meant to impart that; in point of fact, what I think they meant to impart was how Tali wanted, and was, *more* then just the daughter of an Admiral. She wanted to make her own mark, prove she could stand outside her Father's shadow. And, you know what? She did. And perhaps that had more to do with her mother then anything else. 

Read dilandau's post. He is making the point better than I am. 

And again you are more likely to hear about her mom from raan, who was best friends with her rather than tali who doesn't seem to think or talk much of her.

She might not talk about her, but it's rather short sighted to imagine she doesn't *think* about her mother. I lost one of my brothers many years ago, but even though I don't talk about him off the cuff, it doesn't mean I don't think about him. If someone wanted to know about him would they ask my cousin, or me? 

[Someone With Mass]

Dilandau3000 wrote...
Actually, he says he can't tell. It's Tali who gives herself away by blaming it on the fever afterwards.

And that's how he noticed it. 

[huntrrz]

Quole wrote...

Hey, ME figures are back on the Bioware Store. Pre ordered a Tali figure.

If I recall, the figures were criticized for poor quality when they were first released.  Given the quality of the Normandy replica, I'd give them a pass.  Even Tali.

[RogueWriter3201]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

@Someone: she's blushing through her visor? That must've been quite the interrupt.

Well, she's blushing so hard that even Shepard notices it.

Greatest moment *ever.* Well, next to "The Pounce." 

[Nashiktal]

Glad to know you are a quarian glenboy. You can divulge to us all the secrets of your immune system now.

We have to remember we are talking about fictional alien characters. Even then not everyone is particularly close to their mothers, not everyone cares to remember the dead, and people of different cultures and biology definitely have different ways of handling emotions.

Both of us can argue why we should or should not hear about tali's mother, but In either case it doesn't seem to matter because there is little indication we will be learning much about her mother. At least from tali.

Honestly for me, I would prefer character development to NOT be about our squadmates family for once. Most of the cast has issues and talk about their dead or lost family. I would prefer some new material, maybe we could do a childhood friend or something for once.

[exelsis]

We need to recruit these guys to the normandy SR3, as ship's councilors. And official hug givers.

[Dilandau3000]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Forget the Normandy; we need these guys to get to work on the BSN.

Bad idea. It's bad enough we've got fans of different characters at each other's throats; the last thing we need is cat lovers vs. dog lovers on top of that.

[RogueWriter3201]

Nashiktal wrote...

Glad to know you are a quarian glenboy. You can divulge to us all the secrets of your immune system now.

We have to remember we are talking about fictional alien characters. Even then not everyone is particularly close to their mothers, not everyone cares to remember the dead, and people of different cultures and biology definitely have different ways of handling emotions.

Both of us can argue why we should or should not hear about tali's mother, but In either case it doesn't seem to matter because there is little indication we will be learning much about her mother. At least from tali.

Honestly for me, I would prefer character development to NOT be about our squadmates family for once. Most of the cast has issues and talk about their dead or lost family. I would prefer some new material, maybe we could do a childhood friend or something for once.

Nice attempt to use snarky comments to deflect the points I made. classy and mature. 

And since when does being an alien race negate the need to express sorrow over loss. Especially in Mass Effect the Citadel races seem quite human in regards to how they express a broad spectrum of emotions. Shepard and other characters even joke about how many of the races suffer from "Human" nature. Regardless, Tali being non-human has nothing to do with a desire to see an element of the character's personal history fleshed out a bit more. 

As to the Squadmates, there are really only 4 characters that have complex histories with thier parents, Ashley, Tali, Liara, and Wrex. Garrus doesn't so much have problems with his father, his father simply doesn't like Spectres and thinks Garrus is missing his true calling with C-Sec. But he doesn't hate, want to kill him or anything like that. Also, the central characters having various issues with thier parents lends weight to the overall intention of the Mass Effect story, i.e. what has come before, how those things have changed us, and the legacy we leave behind. Those elements are closly tied in with parentage. 

As to whether or not we might ever hear more about Tali's mother? What has leaked from the game's script is an early draft and, since said draft, much more dialogue could have been added. Many of the voice actors, including Ms. Sroka, have mentioned that they've gone in to record ME dialogue as recently as last month. So, at this point, it's rather myopic to assume we will never hear anything about Tali's mother, especially given one of the possible endings for ME3. 

[Unschuld]

glenboy24 wrote...


Nice attempt to use snarky comments to deflect the points I made. classy and mature. 

And since when does being an alien race negate the need to express sorrow over loss. Especially in Mass Effect the Citadel races seem quite human in regards to how they express a broad spectrum of emotions. Shepard and other characters even joke about how many of the races suffer from "Human" nature. Regardless, Tali being non-human has nothing to do with a desire to see an element of the character's personal history fleshed out a bit more. 

As to the Squadmates, there are really only 4 characters that have complex histories with thier parents, Ashley, Tali, Liara, and Wrex. Garrus doesn't so much have problems with his father, his father simply doesn't like Spectres and thinks Garrus is missing his true calling with C-Sec. But he doesn't hate, want to kill him or anything like that. Also, the central characters having various issues with thier parents lends weight to the overall intention of the Mass Effect story, i.e. what has come before, how those things have changed us, and the legacy we leave behind. Those elements are closly tied in with parentage. 

As to whether or not we might ever hear more about Tali's mother? What has leaked from the game's script is an early draft and, since said draft, much more dialogue could have been added. Many of the voice actors, including Ms. Sroka, have mentioned that they've gone in to record ME dialogue as recently as last month. So, at this point, it's rather myopic to assume we will never hear anything about Tali's mother, especially given one of the possible endings for ME3. 

Look, you've put down a lot of good reasons for a subject you feel should see some more light, but it's a moot point. This arguement isn't going to go anywhere useful from here on out. If its written in the script, we'll see it (or rather hear it). If it isn't, we won't. Choice to complain about it at that point is up to whoever feels they need to further continue a fruitless debate.  Regardless, there is no control we personally have to see *if* this info comes to light later, we can only wait. Or you could pick apart the spoiled script.

[RogueWriter3201]

Unschuld wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...


Nice attempt to use snarky comments to deflect the points I made. classy and mature. 

And since when does being an alien race negate the need to express sorrow over loss. Especially in Mass Effect the Citadel races seem quite human in regards to how they express a broad spectrum of emotions. Shepard and other characters even joke about how many of the races suffer from "Human" nature. Regardless, Tali being non-human has nothing to do with a desire to see an element of the character's personal history fleshed out a bit more. 

As to the Squadmates, there are really only 4 characters that have complex histories with thier parents, Ashley, Tali, Liara, and Wrex. Garrus doesn't so much have problems with his father, his father simply doesn't like Spectres and thinks Garrus is missing his true calling with C-Sec. But he doesn't hate, want to kill him or anything like that. Also, the central characters having various issues with thier parents lends weight to the overall intention of the Mass Effect story, i.e. what has come before, how those things have changed us, and the legacy we leave behind. Those elements are closly tied in with parentage. 

As to whether or not we might ever hear more about Tali's mother? What has leaked from the game's script is an early draft and, since said draft, much more dialogue could have been added. Many of the voice actors, including Ms. Sroka, have mentioned that they've gone in to record ME dialogue as recently as last month. So, at this point, it's rather myopic to assume we will never hear anything about Tali's mother, especially given one of the possible endings for ME3. 

Look, you've put down a lot of good reasons for a subject you feel should see some more light, but it's a moot point. This arguement isn't going to go anywhere useful from here on out. If its written in the script, we'll see it (or rather hear it). If it isn't, we won't. Choice to complain about it at that point is up to whoever feels they need to further continue a fruitless debate.  Regardless, there is no control we personally have to see *if* this info comes to light later, we can only wait. Or you could pick apart the spoiled script.

I'll concede this has gone on far too long. Honestly, I didn't intend for it to. However, once Nash here came out of left field with his condescening remarks, well, I fell for the oldest trick in the book, i.e. someone getting you riled up in an attempt to make themselves look superior, far more knowledgable, and so forth. Christ, it's like a moth to a flame. My whole initial point was just that I thought it would be great to learn more about Tali's mother. That's it. However, well, I got baited. So, yeah, case closed. 

[Unschuld]

Other Tali argument/troll thread-------> L-L-L-L-L-Lockdown!

Can't believe that nonsense lasted as long as it did.

[Quole]

No trolling was involved

[Unschuld]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

It was ****ing amazing though.

hella gud tymes buldin dat pyrimid tbh

Modifié par Unschuld, 06 décembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Unschuld]

Quole wrote...

No trolling was involved

Trolling, pissing match, baiting, whatever. The original premise of the thread was retarded. Innoculation by Gmag speak cured the initial onset of AIDS.