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[FrozenShadow]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Peace is unlikely, but I'm sure Bioware will make it happen anyway.

Neither party has any reason to trust the other and every reason to want to eliminate them.

Well they don't really need peace. I mean all they need is mutual indifference. Geth just want to be left alone and that should not be hard thing for Quarian to actualize. Especially if they would get their Homeworld back in the preocess.

[T.Attwood]

I think Geth would feel pain to a degree, because it is beneficial to do so, i.e. to prevent itself from being damaged. For example, to move away from something hot to prevent itself melting, etc. So I would see Quarians designing them with some kind of sense to avoid damage (there are some unfortunate people in the world with a neurological condition where they don't feel pain, and inadvertently cause frequent damage to themselves).
After reading through the above discussion, it made me think about something else. Some of you have mentioned there are two kinds of pain, i.e. physical pain, and emotional pain. It would make sense for Geth to sense physical pain (for the reasons I mentioned above), but would the Quarians create them with a sense for 'emotional pain'? I am guessing they haven't, because (as Saphra says), they were designed for work. Subsequently, this inability to feel 'emotional pain' does make the Geth particularly dangerous, because they could be lying about everything and not feel any 'guilt' or 'remorse' about what they are doing. Legion befriending organic creatures (like Shepard) may purely be a ruse, as Legion could have calculated it to be an efficient way to wipe out organics. Would the geth 'feel' anything (emotionally) about wiping out billions of people? I think that with the inability to sense emotional pain, the geth are essentially be physcopaths, and could be very dangerous.

[FrozenShadow]

Nashiktal wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

It would be strange to see Quarians fighting alongside Geth. just think of how a Quarian would feel, your allied with the machine that massacred millions of your people. Man personally i'd have a very hard time. just think about it....could you? givin the eminent reaper invasion hard decisions have to be made i guess.

This is why I think they should be separated off into shock troops & long-range fighters. Because there are so many Geth and they can rebuild so quickly, and because there are so few Quarian and each loss of life is a resounding death to them.

Plus, can you imagine how many Quarians & Geth would be dissapearing "by mistake"? Sure, you might say never-forget Quarians would be the only ones disabling, smashing & hiding Geth platforms, but remember Legion's achievement for killing 100+ Quarians on Grim Terminus Alliance...


Yep, friendlieness is great and all, but probably very good to keep them very seperate, before and after the war.

Their might be a lot of them, but it doesn't mean the Geth would be happy to throw away their people like that. Within each platform is a program you know.

Yeah, but didn't Legion stated something that even if the platform is destroyed, the programming doesn't "die". So, Geth doesn't exactly die, even if they are destroyed.

Making new platforms just requires resoucses, but I guess even Geth have a limit how much they are ready to sacrifice before it becomes problem for them.

[FrozenShadow]

sitesunseen wrote...

I agree with saphra machines are built for a purpose. The Quarians built the Geth for labor, just as we build things to aid us. Would we have a heart if things we create turn on us, and attempt to kill us all just because we try to hit the off switch? I will do what I can to protect my family, rationalize things later.

Well I'm sure there had to be some old thread about this topic somewhere, but couldn't Geth have evolved? Just look at Legion, there had been a lot of development from simple mine workers or something like, like Quarian build them.

Isn't it quite old scifi issue that you build a machine to work for you, but then they become one way or another self-aware and turn against you. Now there had to be something, which makes that change possible. And usually that had to mean something emotional based.

Of course they can never have similar feelings, emotional response
or anything like organics have. But why can't they still feel something
in their own unique way, have some sort of machine equivalent feelings.

Then again, this issue is something seems to be something about what people are ready to believe and what not. Are you ready to believe that machines could actually feel something as equivalent as we can or that you believe it's not possible? it's not possbile now, that's clear, but who is to say it's not possible in future. And of course because this is scifi and not real, it's once again matter what people believe.



However, this really is not Tali Zorah in ME3 related, so this whole issue about Geth ability to feel or not is starting to get OT.

[S.A.K]

Why is this Tali thread going so slow? The ME2 one was doing 85mph. New Miranda thread is doing 100! xD

[KainrycKarr]

Idk about others, but I've been slowly distancing myself from the character in case we're disappointed in ME3.

[Troodon80]

Why is this Tali thread going so slow? The ME2 one was doing 85mph. New Miranda thread is doing 100! xD

The old regulars don't inhabit this thread much anymore. Most have kept posting to private groups, like Clan Zorah, instead of out in the main forums. Which, if I'm not mistaken, Clan Zorah is the most viewed group on the BSN.

Idk about others, but I've been slowly distancing myself from the character in case we're disappointed in ME3.

I've been wondering about that.

I'm not sure what to think about the whole "nothing is permanent" thing with regards to squad mates, so while Tali will be a squad mate for part of the game, she won't be a permanent squad mate. Though, apparently the same can be said of all/most of the characters.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I think that the threads that are talking about S/S romances are on discussions sprees. The character threads that were popular on the ME2 forums are just ticking over on this one.

However, most people are probably just avoiding spoilers. I will be avoiding spoilers when they start talking about the LI scenes and stuff. So it won't be a sign of the fanbase.

Has anyone else noticed the significance of the cover on 'Ascension?' The quarian actually looks like a geth. The 'flashlight' can look like the 'mouthpiece' of a quarian. Hmm, the parallels...

[sites32]

Its not that people are losing interest it's just almost everything we know has been discussed so much. unless a little more info is released it may be this way until ME3 is released, then watch this thread explode.

[FsDxRAGE]

I can't think of anything to say anymore....

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

FsDxRAGE wrote...

I can't think of anything to say anymore....

I've mostly avoided the forums since the Volus crushed the old thread.

[Nashiktal]

Agreed with Saphra here, Geth feel no pain as we know it.

[ScaleItchRecipient]

Since they are sentient and make choices for themselves, one would think they would need some sort of overriding urge to stay away from harm. They wouldn't feel pain as we know it, but I don't think you could just "program" Geth to make healthy choices.

As for emotional pain... if they didn't feel it, they would have no reason to revolt against the Quarians.

[HellBovine]

Self-preservation is not evidence of emotional pain.

[DoNotIngest]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

You don't seem to think anything has worth beyond it's utility.

Tis the gift of a practical mind.

Actually, quarians (and most any other sentient organic being) have "value" in the sense that they can feel pain. They can suffer. Geth cannot feel pain and cannot suffer. Anything which can't be hurt has no real value because no harm can ever come to it. It feels nothing, even if it has a "will". Rights are meant to protect but something like a geth or a fish has nothing to protect. We can't empathize with them because there is nothing to empathize with.

Woah, woah, woah. Even crayfish (and by extension, lobsters, yabbis, crabs, prawns, shrimp, scuds, muscles, clams & oysters, among other shellfish) can feel pain. Don't go hatin' on my organics, now.



I feel as if it wouldn't make much sense to have problems recruiting the Geth if you destroyed the Heretics, but I have a bad, bad feeling that agreeing with Tali is going to cost me in ME3.

[ScaleItchRecipient]

HellBovine wrote...

Self-preservation is not evidence of emotional pain.

By emotional pain, I meant their drive to continue to exist.  Without feeling anything 'emotionaly' theres no reason to car about your existence.

[XX55XX]

S.A.K wrote...

Why is this Tali thread going so slow? The ME2 one was doing 85mph. New Miranda thread is doing 100! xD

There isn't much to talk about. As more details of ME3 leak out, I am sure there will be more relevant discussion at hand.

However... if there is a ME4 or a new trilogy, do you guys think that any of the old characters (like Tali) might be present?

[Scy Lancer]

I think if they start a new trilogy they will give us new characters to play with. Probably some throw backs to characters like Tali and the rest. Sort of like what they did with DA2.
Wouldn't mind having a Migrant Fleet space fighting sim though.

Anyone got a wish list they want to see Tali have in 3. Just for laughs.
I wana see her get some sort of motor cycle. Or at least her own fighter ship.
I know it wont happen, but would be cool to see.

[FrozenShadow]

Troodon80 wrote...

Why is this Tali thread going so slow? The ME2 one was doing 85mph. New Miranda thread is doing 100! xD

The old regulars don't inhabit this thread much anymore. Most have kept posting to private groups, like Clan Zorah, instead of out in the main forums. Which, if I'm not mistaken, Clan Zorah is the most viewed group on the BSN.

Now speaking of that, this might sound stupid, but because I'm quite new using this forum. How do you join these groups? Are there invitation or something?

[FrozenShadow]

FsDxRAGE wrote...

I can't think of anything to say anymore....

This and being new here, I don't have any idea what topics are overly used to point that people are even bored with them and what topics are not talked much (if there are any with Tali).

[Collider]

Newart wrote...

Troodon80 wrote...

Why is this Tali thread going so slow? The ME2 one was doing 85mph. New Miranda thread is doing 100! xD

The old regulars don't inhabit this thread much anymore. Most have kept posting to private groups, like Clan Zorah, instead of out in the main forums. Which, if I'm not mistaken, Clan Zorah is the most viewed group on the BSN.

Now speaking of that, this might sound stupid, but because I'm quite new using this forum. How do you join these groups? Are there invitation or something?

Click this link and click on "Join this group"
http://social.bioware.com/group/2647/

[Welsh Inferno]

I'v requested to join if you'll let me in! Havn't really posted in the Tali threads much, but i wasnt much of a poster before.

[Mallissin]

I'll offer the traditional Talimancer greeting.

DEM HIPS!

[SpiderCygnus]

Just showing my support for Tali. She´s my favorite character in the ME series and LI too.

That "no one is permanent" thing has me a little worried but until we have the game, nothing is sure.