69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Complistic]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Complistic wrote...

eh, one Rune is more than enough.

One is too many.

But which one?

[mauro2222]

sitesunseen wrote...

I have to agree with this one. Just leaving Geth isolated without any contact (besides hostle) just doesn't seem to work. And why do they attack anything without question when entering geth space.

This is unknown because, we don't actually know if the ones who attack are the heretics or the true geth.

[Ravensword]

DoNotTrololo wrote...

Hey, guise. Guise! GUISE! I think Saphra's back.



So yeah, I'm hoping for the entire crew/squad of the Normandy to be able to stop at clubs in ME3 and mass-dance.

Just like this, this, and this. 

[sites32]

mauro2222 wrote...

sitesunseen wrote...

I have to agree with this one. Just leaving Geth isolated without any contact (besides hostle) just doesn't seem to work. And why do they attack anything without question when entering geth space.

This is unknown because, we don't actually know if the ones who attack are the heretics or the true geth.

This may be unknown, but apparently the number of heretics greatly outnumber the True Geth platforms. In the end if geth wish to be left alone, then they should stop firing the first shot. Off topic I knows sorry.

[mauro2222]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Assimilation? No, all I want is diplomacy with them. Dialogue. They need to be willing to talk to us and not shoot organics on sight. If they want to be left alone then they need to establish trust.

Wait, if you support Xen, dialogue is not an option.

[Unschuld]

Saphra Deden wrote...


She is not short-sighted or lacking a moral compass, Mr. "I covered up war crimes to impress the girl I have a crush on". 

Oh, please. This one barely deserves a rebuttal. I'll touch on the war crime/coverup thing later, but suffice to say this is a laughable stab at a percieved/assumed "character flaw" in order to avoid actual logical discourse on the subject at hand. I couldn't care less about impressing my video-game waifu because I already have one of those "waifu" things. I made my decision, which I admit at the time was hard, based on the information I was given at the time. The only reason my Shepard is with Tali is because that's how I would like to see the story progress, entirely the same principal as enjoying the outcome of a movie only on an entirely different medium. Try harder next time.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Xen wants the homeworld back and she proposes the most efficient way to do it. In the process she'll avoid bloodshed and make her people much stronger and safer.

What is short-sighted about that?

Avoiding the points about how the Geth are an advanced, evolving AI which gained a sort of psudo-sentience and broke free of their masters. Yes, convenient. Absolutely no possibility of history repeating itself. Nope nope.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

The problem is that it's NOT a straightforward issue. It's not something that can be boiled down into a simple two digit math equation.

Yes it can.

Do you want the homeworld back? Y/N

If "Y" then you need to decide the most efficient means to do it.

Straight out war with the geth or a viral attack to neutralize and/or control them?

Obviously the second option is better because it spares the quarians the need to fight a costly war and leaves them with a much larger military and labor force than they started out with.

Even if you decide you don't want the homeworld back you still need to keep Xen in mind because her plans are the quarians best defense against possible geth aggression. Remember, the geth will attack if they even suspect the quarians might think that victory is possible. The dynamic between the two races is complex but what either races wants is not.

As I made a point of it in my post, which you ignored and further proved my point, your black & white view warps your sense of the world causing you to ignore potential consequences for your actions. In a way I can't blame you, because you're a typical example of the human species: short sighted and only really concerned with the immediate impact of your actions regardless of what it could affect as collateral damage down the road.

You've boiled down the decisions to two answers, when there is at least a third option alluded to in game as well: Leave the Geth alone for now/ i.e pursue peace. Although, because that's the option I chose, prefering to get more evidence to make an informed decision (which did happen before, during, and later in game) I can probably predict your next response:

Unshuchld wrote...
           ^  [I got a kick out of this]  ^
Hiding the evidence (regardless of your personal view on reavealing it as the logical choice) is the most rational choice,

Saphra Deden wrote...
METAGAMING*unintelligible noises emanating from a foaming mouth* BAAAAD!

Ah yes, "Metagaming", we have dismissed that claim. Honestly if there's anything 100% predictable as one of your "rubuttals" to a viewpoint that refutes your own (especially this issue it seems) it's this one. At this point, you throw that term around so often that I wonder if you even know the definition anymore. For your consideration, here it is. Sorry, wikipedia is all you get:

In role-playing games, a player is metagaming when they use knowledge that is not available to their character in order to change the way they play their character (usually to give them an advantage within the game), such as knowledge of the mathematical nature of character statistics, or the statistics of a creature that the player is familiar with but the character has never encountered. In general, it refers to any gaps between player knowledge and character knowledge which the player acts upon.

Is that clear enough? Here, let me explain. 

Reading a strategy guide prior to playing:
Metagaming.

Not upgrading the armor because you know Jack will turn into red mist (lol):
Metagaming.

Picking the wrong specialist ("Any" biotic, cause Miranda said so) and losing your other teammate to the bees:
Not Metagaming.

Picking the wrong one because you KNOW one of them gets carried away: Metagaming.

Picking the "right" biotic, because they are the only pure biotics: Not Metagaming.

Making informed or best-rational decisions based on evidence experienced by your character in-game: 
Not Metagaming.

 My first time playing the game, I had not seen anything but the Grunt vs. Threshermaw trailer. Didn't read any of the books or comics, nothing. Cerberus infiltrated the migrant fleet? What's up with that? Had no idea what would happen on the suicide mission at all, or the mechanics of it. In fact, picking up ME1 at the store was an impulse buy because I just wanted to play an RPG and it got a good review. Up until recently, and well after playing both games many times, I avoided the forums/MEwiki and the rest because I didn't want anything to color my decisions. Unfortunately, I did see bits and pieces of the recent (old) ME3 leak but unless I can somehow remember the exact gobbledy-****** I read I doubt it will color my further actions.

I'll get to the topic at hand. The same principals above apply, and though it's redundant to retell the story everyone should already know, I'll do it anyway. Tali is called in to be tried for treason blah blah blah. Something didn't seem right. From talking to the admirals, you find out that this trial really isn't about her at all, but between quibbling admirals trying to further their own goals. Geth suddenly appearing on Rael's research ship is a convenient distraction to pin the blame on his daughter, who was sending him parts. On the Alarie you find out that Rael was performing tests not only on bits and pieces of inactive geth, but "live" Geth as well. This is all terrible and such, because bringing active geth to the fleet is a crime.

At this point, this information is something I'd consider revealing, regardless of her feelings about her father. He's dead and it doesn't really matter what happens to him anymore, and helping him avoid stigma and posthumous damnation would be more out of respect to Tali than anything else (which I agree). However, that's not the reason I chose to cover up the info. It doesn't take a political genious to figure out pre-trial that this is a volatile situation, which is being further compounded by a sham meant to further the admirals' own interests. Talking to them individually and listening to the conversations of other Quarians gives enough information to make a judgement. I personally told Han Gerril after the trial though, because I felt he could be trusted. Xen, not so much. She ended up finding out anyway, and we'll see what comes of that.

It's still better than the entire public finding out at the moment, and they can be told later. When things calm down further, when/if they get their homeworld back, then they can find out. At least then their differing viewpoints won't turn them into a disorganized mess trying to fight Geth and the reapers all at once. Again, not metagaming at all, since Shepard himself knows this. Please give me a good reason WHY it would be better to reveal it now, when there's bigger problems at hand. Yes, he's a war criminal in a sense, but as far as the Quarians would be concerned it's because he endangered the fleet by doing his experiments. He did this because it was his means to an end, his ends justified the means. Something you (rather hypocritically considering your stance on this issue) advocate on a daily basis.

My point, as I mentioned before, is proven by what happens if you reveal the evidence. The fleet splits up, the Quarians are no longer unified, infighting has gotten worse, Tali is pissed at you for assuming your decision would be best.

Saphra Dedan: "But, but, that's METAGAMING!"

No, actually it isn't. I provided that as an example (I actually first saw it less than a month ago) because I'm sure that's the end result that you got in your game based on your reactions. I myself had no previous notions that this would be the exact consequence, but I certainly speculated as such and made my decision based on what evidence I saw. As I said before, it's not that hard, you just have to listen to what people tell you in game and piece together the clues instead of barging in guns blazing all the time. Turns out I was correct about my assumptions, based on what the youtube video shows. Again, it's not metagaming because I had already made my decision, it doesn't color my opinion differently about the future and it only serves as proof that had chosen the path that was closest to the outcome I wanted. It doesn't matter that I've seen the alternate, I'd still make the same decision regardless. End of story.

So how is this "metagaming"? Given the fact that you sling the term wildly like mud at anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint, I can form a decent hypothesis. Going by the general tone of most of your posts, you believe that no matter what decision you make, it is the absolute most correct thing to do. Anyone who dares to oppose you or have a different opinion is "stupid" or "wrong". This doesn't extend just to forum posters, but the game itself it seems. How could Bioware possibly give you a negative consequence for revealing the truth!?! You, who's never wrong about anything! It must be Bioware. 'The game is broken and wrong because it didn't give me what I wanted.' To use a colloquialism, it sounds like you're suffering from a major case of "teh butthurtz". The game didn't give you what you wanted and you got upset.

My first impulse was to kill the Rachni queen, and I still do that on every "canon" playthrough. Why? Because it's the decision I felt was best at the time given the information that I knew (fast spreading, dangerous territorial species) at the time. There was no connection to the reapers known until I got further into the game, so I'll live with it if it bites me in the ass later in ME3. I suggest you do the same. Deal with it and accept the consequences. 

Modifié par Unschuld, 13 décembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[Homebound]

I once sent Tali into the tubes and Grunt as firesquad leader thinkin his combined knowledge of Krogan warfare would give him an edge or something. but nope. At least i think I used grunt, either grunt, mordin or zaeed. either way, i thought their past experience wouldve helped..Like Thane and his ninja skills for the normandy crew, but they get killed instead.

[Unschuld]

Ravensword wrote...

It's always fun to watch Saphra argue. If you fail to agree w/ him within 20 minutes he starts getting upset and starts trying to insult the person he's arguing w/. I think it's a great way to convince someone of your views. Then again, this is the Internet and you're all arguing about fictional characters and fictional circumstances. Has anyone here really gained anything except rage and carpal tunnel syndrome?

Can't speak for others, but I'm not feeling any rage. I got a kick out of that, lol. Guess I enjoy writing things though, so to each their own.

[Dilandau3000]

Saphra Deden wrote...

HellBovine wrote...

Even if such a plan was successful, there remains a significant chance that the geth could once again become unshackled.

What makes you think this chance is significant?

Precautions could always be taken.

Because it happened before, and precautions are never more than just precautions; you won't know if it's enough until things go wrong. And in this case the end-result is the annihilation of their species if something does go wrong.

Remember the whole reason for the Morning War is that as soon as the geth showed signs of developing sentience the quarians decided to destroy them because they knew they couldn't control them. What has changed?

What's more, even if the geth could be perfectly controlled, they are now an independent, sentient race. Making them slaves again is therefore morally reprehensable.

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 13 décembre 2011 - 01:40 .

[Homebound]

i wonder if tali will have new skillz in mass3.

i ran a poll about this awhile ago asking what tali's class would be if mass effect was a classic rpg. would she be a warrior, rogue or mage?

edit: TOTP! STOP HURTING ME WITH YOUR WORDS!

Modifié par Hellbound555, 13 décembre 2011 - 03:30 .

[ZenJestr]

she'd probably be a rogue. Even though EngineerShep is more of a mage than Adepts are, Tali doesn't have Incinerate or Cryo Blast, she has hacking and decoys and stripping down defenses and stuff i.e. rogue stuff. Plus quarians are stereotypically known as "thieves".

[DoNotTrololo]

Seeing how Soldier = Warrior, Tech = Rogue and Biotics = Mage... Yeah, Rogue. Big damage up close with shotgun, sabatoges weapons/shields, distracts with drone... 100% Rogue.



And Hell, post a pic you lazy plebian Talimancer peasant, you. Top of the Page must survive!

[DoNotTrololo]

Oh, and she has a knife. NEED I SAY MORE.

[Spartanburger]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What's more, even if the geth could be perfectly controlled, they are now an independent, sentient race. Making them slaves again is therefore morally reprehensable.

Well... only partially sentient. I'd explain more but spoilerspoilerspoiler

[Someone With Mass]

I think the devs tweeted not long ago about how it was difficult to code Tali's new power.

[Homebound]

aww man, page 404! we need an error joke!

[exelsis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Remember the whole reason for the Morning War is that as soon as the geth showed signs of developing sentience the quarians decided to destroy them because they knew they couldn't control them. What has changed?

What has changed is that they are no longer dealing with an unknown. Now they know what the geth are and what they can do. This time the geth situation will be something they have engineered and understand.

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What's more, even if the geth could be perfectly controlled, they are now an independent, sentient race. Making them slaves again is therefore morally reprehensable.

The geth are machines and nothing more. They are not living beings, they are just malfunctioning tools.

Humans are nothing more than machines either. We are just made from organic molecules, while they are constructs of metal.

[Homebound]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Remember the whole reason for the Morning War is that as soon as the geth showed signs of developing sentience the quarians decided to destroy them because they knew they couldn't control them. What has changed?

What has changed is that they are no longer dealing with an unknown. Now they know what the geth are and what they can do. This time the geth situation will be something they have engineered and understand.

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What's more, even if the geth could be perfectly controlled, they are now an independent, sentient race. Making them slaves again is therefore morally reprehensable.

The geth are machines and nothing more. They are not living beings, they are just malfunctioning tools.

You know, Im starting to get this feeling that you're less of a Tali-fan and more of an anti-geth fan.

[Dilandau3000]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The geth are machines and nothing more.

They are machines, but they are also sentient and self-aware, which makes them more than tools in my opinion. You can disagree if you like, but I will stand by my opinion on this matter.

Basically, I'm with Asimov on this one: "There is no right to deny freedom to any object with a mind advanced enough to grasp the concept and desire the state." (Bicentennial Man (the book, not the movie))

@Hellbound's picture: (in Top Cat voice) "Exit, stage left!"

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 13 décembre 2011 - 03:41 .