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Tali'Zorah ME3 Thread *MAJOR SPOILER WARNING!*


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#11401
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...

We are both machines made of differents materials.


In a way, yes, but vastly different at the same time. Legion may have a few "human" qualities to him that make him likable, but in the end are you going to choose the being having the least in common with you in a hypothetical life/death scenario? I'm not talking about a "Tali said Legion must die" scenario anymore, but one where you either have to side with one or the other as they're about to kill each other, or save one of them from some impending doom while the other dies.

Heck, or not even Tali or Legion scenario. How about Organic Character A vs. Inorganic Character B.

Modifié par Unschuld, 05 janvier 2012 - 02:24 .


#11402
da hizz nizz 3

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Unschuld wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

We are both machines made of differents materials.


In a way, yes, but vastly different at the same time. Legion may have a few "human" qualities to him that make him likable, but in the end are you going to choose the being having the least in common with you in a hypothetical life/death scenario? I'm not talking about a "Tali said Legion must die" scenario anymore, but one where you either have to side with one or the other as they're about to kill each other, or save one of them from some impending doom while the other dies.

Heck, or not even Tali or Legion scenario. How about Organic Character A vs. Inorganic Character B.

I would Trash the inorganic every time. Like Legion says I should'nt apply my morality to an inorganic. It would understand why it would be sacrificed before an organic

Modifié par da hizz nizz 3, 05 janvier 2012 - 02:31 .


#11403
mauro2222

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da hizz nizz 3 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

We are both machines made of differents materials.


In a way, yes, but vastly different at the same time. Legion may have a few "human" qualities to him that make him likable, but in the end are you going to choose the being having the least in common with you in a hypothetical life/death scenario? I'm not talking about a "Tali said Legion must die" scenario anymore, but one where you either have to side with one or the other as they're about to kill each other, or save one of them from some impending doom while the other dies.

Heck, or not even Tali or Legion scenario. How about Organic Character A vs. Inorganic Character B.

I would Trash the inorganic every time. Like Legion says I should'nt apply my morality to an inorganic. It would understand why it would be sacrificed before an organic


He says species, not inorganics. So, you shouldn't be caring about Tali either.

Modifié par mauro2222, 05 janvier 2012 - 02:56 .


#11404
Spartanburger

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Saphra Deden wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

We are both machines made of differents materials.


Only if you accept an extremely broad definition of what a machine is.

Machine
/məˈSHēn/


A machine manages power to accomplish a task. Examples include, a mechanical system, a computing system, an electronic system, and a molecular machine. In common usage, the meaning is that of a device having parts that perform or assist in performing any type of work. A simple machine is a device that transforms the direction or magnitude of a force.


We're machines. Not the same kind of machine as a computer or an engine, but nonetheless a machine.

#11405
mauro2222

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Unschuld wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

We are both machines made of differents materials.


In a way, yes, but vastly different at the same time. Legion may have a few "human" qualities to him that make him likable, but in the end are you going to choose the being having the least in common with you in a hypothetical life/death scenario? I'm not talking about a "Tali said Legion must die" scenario anymore, but one where you either have to side with one or the other as they're about to kill each other, or save one of them from some impending doom while the other dies.

Heck, or not even Tali or Legion scenario. How about Organic Character A vs. Inorganic Character B.


Of what they are made of is meaningless. They are both equal, so, its up to the situation.

#11406
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...

Of what they are made of is meaningless. They are both equal, so, its up to the situation.


It's not meaningless, it provides a point of dissimilarity which will affect views on equality depending on the viewer. Aside from that, it does rely pretty heavily on the situation. I would keep Legion "alive" over some **** human, even if "he" isn't much more than a sentient toaster.

#11407
mauro2222

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Unschuld wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Of what they are made of is meaningless. They are both equal, so, its up to the situation.


It's not meaningless, it provides a point of dissimilarity which will affect views on equality depending on the viewer. Aside from that, it does rely pretty heavily on the situation. I would keep Legion "alive" over some **** human, even if "he" isn't much more than a sentient toaster.


And you aren't much more than a piece of smelly flesh who withers and dies, and smells even more. You are also made of inorganic materials, 60% to 80% of you is water. So, it's meaningless. Unless you have some sort of metaphysical reason for why we are more important than them.

Modifié par mauro2222, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:09 .


#11408
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...

And you aren't much more than a piece of smelly flesh who withers and dies, and smells even more. You are also made of inorganic materials, 60% to 80% of you is water. So, it's meaningless. Unless you have some sort of metaphysical reason for why we are more important than them.


You're missing the point a bit. It's not that either group has some sort of intrinsic higher value, that value comes from the perception of whatever side you view the arguement on. The inorganics would see individuals like themselves as more important, as would the organics. The only thing meaningless is using the building blocks of each as a point. Everything is made from inorganic atoms, so what. When protein chains are formed, its organic. The point isn't the actual physical materials, its how the being as a whole is viewed. If my toaster had a mind of its own, do you think I would choose it to "live" over another human? Hell no. Even if that toaster had a great personality and damn fine sense of humor, I wouldn't hesitate to chuck it given the choice of another human with a damn fine personality. It might make me sad, but still. Same would go for an alien species. The point I'm making is about dissimilarity.

To keep this somewhat on topic, I'd support the Quarian decision to attempt to wipe out the Geth the very moment they started making decisions for themselves. Cruel? Maybe, from your point of view. I guess seeing the Terminator at a very young age kinda helped in my distrust for sentient inorganic machines. Organics are constructs of proteins that got together to form chemical "machines". As such, through evolutiony details, they operate through a series of chemical reactions and behaviour based on evolved instincts and emotions. These are the things that allow us to feel things like empathy, love, hate, anger etc. These sorts of things allow us to make things like acts of kindness possible, however illogical. Sending food to starving children in an overpopulated world to allow them to live so they can reproduce and create more is illogical. I shudder to think of what the world would be like if every decision was based on pure logic.

Inorganics (in this case, we're talking about Geth, not rock people) are based on a system of logic and mathmatics. From what we see through Legions character development might suggest that they've evolved some sort of emotional set, but its still a bit debatable. From the Quarian standpoint the Geth, now thinking for themselves, could logically decide that in order to ensure survival and acquisition of resources the Quarians should be eliminated. So they acted first, as I would have. Unfortunately it was already too late.

I could write more, but this is already going way off topic. If you want more, it should go to PMs.

#11409
mauro2222

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Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?

Edit: That sounds like me, let me put it in this way. You are seriously going to kill someone because there is a possibilite that he may turn out to be a murderer?

Modifié par mauro2222, 05 janvier 2012 - 03:51 .


#11410
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?


That's assuming I have some sort of prescience that told me that it was going to be a murderer, I guess. That would be the logical decision, but I probably couldn't do it. Equating a race of constructs you created to your actual child is a pretty bold leap to make though. I see where you're coming from, but no. I can't say that's exactly an equal comparison.

#11411
mauro2222

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Unschuld wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?


That's assuming I have some sort of prescience that told me that it was going to be a murderer, I guess. That would be the logical decision, but I probably couldn't do it. Equating a race of constructs you created to your actual child is a pretty bold leap to make though. I see where you're coming from, but no. I can't say that's exactly an equal comparison.


Your child is also made by you... you created life. A quarian who creates an A.I. does the same.

#11412
HellBovine

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mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?

Edit: That sounds like me, let me put it in this way. You are seriously going to kill someone because there is a possibilite that he may turn out to be a murderer?

The geth were not the "children" of the quarians as much as defective equipment which accidentally gained semi-sentience. Comparing the situation to the murder of one's child is far too much of a stretch. The geth had no genetic link to the quarians, and no emotional bonds which would have prevented them from harming the quarians. They had unknowable motivations and extreme destructive potential (whittling down a population of billions to 17 million), the only things the quarians did wrong in that situation is act too late.
*edit totp Tali
Posted Image

Modifié par HellBovine, 05 janvier 2012 - 04:22 .


#11413
mauro2222

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HellBovine wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?

Edit: That sounds like me, let me put it in this way. You are seriously going to kill someone because there is a possibilite that he may turn out to be a murderer?

The geth were not the "children" of the quarians as much as defective equipment which accidentally gained semi-sentience. Comparing the situation to the murder of one's child is far too much of a stretch. The geth had no genetic link to the quarians, and no emotional bonds which would have prevented them from harming the quarians. They had unknowable motivations and extreme destructive potential (whittling down a population of billions to 17 million), the only things the quarians did wrong in that situation is act too late.


If a baby feels threatened, it's going to defend himself, it doesn't matter if you are the mother or the father.

#11414
HellBovine

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mauro2222 wrote...

HellBovine wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?

Edit: That sounds like me, let me put it in this way. You are seriously going to kill someone because there is a possibilite that he may turn out to be a murderer?

The geth were not the "children" of the quarians as much as defective equipment which accidentally gained semi-sentience. Comparing the situation to the murder of one's child is far too much of a stretch. The geth had no genetic link to the quarians, and no emotional bonds which would have prevented them from harming the quarians. They had unknowable motivations and extreme destructive potential (whittling down a population of billions to 17 million), the only things the quarians did wrong in that situation is act too late.


If a baby feels threatened, it's going to defend himself, it doesn't matter if you are the mother or the father.

A baby is defenseless and nonthreatening, a geth collective is neither. :whistle:

#11415
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...


Your child is also made by you... you created life. A quarian who creates an A.I. does the same.

mauro2222 wrote...


If a baby feels threatened, it's going to defend himself, it doesn't matter if you are the mother or the father.


You have a PM.

HellBovine wrote...
A baby is defenseless and nonthreatening, a geth collective is neither. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

We should probably end the debate here. The thread is getting a bit off topic. Carry it to PMs, or maybe another thread.

Modifié par Unschuld, 05 janvier 2012 - 04:23 .


#11416
Unschuld

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So... Tali.... She has strange looking feet and hands, and she wears a suit.

#11417
mauro2222

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HellBovine wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

HellBovine wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmm... I see your point, but my opinion differs from the fact that I see everyone as my equal. My attachment to my species is the same attachment that I have for another one.

You are seriously going to kill your child because it may be a murderer?

Edit: That sounds like me, let me put it in this way. You are seriously going to kill someone because there is a possibilite that he may turn out to be a murderer?

The geth were not the "children" of the quarians as much as defective equipment which accidentally gained semi-sentience. Comparing the situation to the murder of one's child is far too much of a stretch. The geth had no genetic link to the quarians, and no emotional bonds which would have prevented them from harming the quarians. They had unknowable motivations and extreme destructive potential (whittling down a population of billions to 17 million), the only things the quarians did wrong in that situation is act too late.


If a baby feels threatened, it's going to defend himself, it doesn't matter if you are the mother or the father.

A baby is defenseless and nonthreatening, a geth collective is neither. :whistle:


...? If a human baby had claws instead of a cry, it wouldn't look so defensless.

#11418
mauro2222

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Unschuld wrote...

You have a PM.


Thanks Kelly :lol:

#11419
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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Unschuld wrote...

So... Tali.... She has strange looking feet and hands, and she wears a suit.

Yes. That she does. *awkward silence*

#11420
mauro2222

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

So... Tali.... She has strange looking feet and hands, and she wears a suit.

Yes. That she does. *awkward silence*


............ quarian pounce!


That's how you break silence.

#11421
Unschuld

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mauro2222 wrote...

Thanks Kelly :lol:


What you did there. Seeing it.

#11422
weirdnerd

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

So... Tali.... She has strange looking feet and hands, and she wears a suit.

Yes. That she does. *awkward silence*


. . .   well ****...

#11423
Unschuld

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I think Tali's face should......
I think there should be a scene in ME3 where Tali.....
If Shepard did x do you think Tali would.... aw, screw dat imma go back 2 poppin arrows into sum homies' patellas tbh

#11424
itzLWM

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Mecha3 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

It's just me, or her legs are more muscular?


Happens with repeated Shepard pouncing. Builds muscle tone. B)


WIN.

#11425
itzLWM

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da hizz nizz 3 wrote...

If Tali said you had to kill Legion to stay in a romance with her (because he betrayed them in some way involuntarily) and If not she leaves you but eventually you make up and become friends again, would you do it?


I would blast Legion to a million tiny pieces.