69153 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Tali is qualified in not being qualified to lead. Over the past 2 games, there has been no example, no instance where she demonstrated herself to have any leadership capabilities of any kind.

I can agree. Admiral or not I don't think Tali will be doing any leading. Shepard will be doing that through her. Its the way BW gives the player control over that situation. Can't say how good it will turn out untill I play the game.

[Unschuld]

Oh hai guys.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Interesting how some people assume that Tali actively goes after an Admiralty position, as opposed to having it shoved on her.

[Sebby]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Interesting how some people assume that Tali actively goes after an Admiralty position, as opposed to having it shoved on her.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's idiotic.

[Killjoy Cutter]

There's a difference between stating "this is idiotic as a political system" and a flimsy excuse for some who get their pathetic little rocks off on destroying whatever someone else loves to take cheap shots at a character.

[The Elder King]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Interesting how some people assume that Tali actively goes after an Admiralty position, as opposed to having it shoved on her.

In that case, she could've refused it.
Though I prefer to wait and see in the game how it will be handled.

Modifié par hhh89, 09 janvier 2012 - 03:21 .

[Sebby]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

There's a difference between stating "this is idiotic as a political system" and a flimsy excuse for some who get their pathetic little rocks off on destroying whatever someone else loves to take cheap shots at a character.

I doubt Quarian law has a clause for (bad) fanwanking.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really that hard to just accept that they were looking for a replacement for Tali's father and Tali happened to be available at the time and if she's exiled she's merely an adviser?

I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

Nepotism and a lack of proven competence at leading, or even a history of significant leadership, aren't problems for replacing the highest levels of power?

That she'd quite after the Reaper War kind of misses the point that it's during the Reaper War the Quarians need the best leadership possible.

[Dean_the_Young]

Seboist wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

This is how leadership succession works among Quarians:

1. My daddy is an Admiral.
2. People notice me.
3. Therefore, I am qualified.

Admiral Tali, it will be my pleasure to have you watch the demise of your species, in the orbit of your filthy little homeworld.

I used to think Shepard was an idiot for asking her if she was royalty in ME1 but it turns out I was wrong.

Now I'm expecting the FCW to be revealed to have really been another genophage......

No, no, clearly it's the fault of Cerberus. Meddling in alien politics to weaken them and... stuff.

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Nepotism and a lack of proven competence at leading, or even a history of significant leadership, aren't problems for replacing the highest levels of power?

That she'd quite after the Reaper War kind of misses the point that it's during the Reaper War the Quarians need the best leadership possible.

They have. All their admirals are there. There's nothing that says that Tali will make all the decisions by herself. 

[Sebby]

Tali's former captain is more deserving of that position than she is.

[Pottumuusi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really that hard to just accept that they were looking for a replacement for Tali's father and Tali happened to be available at the time and if she's exiled she's merely an adviser?

I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

Nepotism and a lack of proven competence at leading, or even a history of significant leadership, aren't problems for replacing the highest levels of power?

That she'd quite after the Reaper War kind of misses the point that it's during the Reaper War the Quarians need the best leadership possible.

Do you even know what nepotism means?

"Lack of proven competence at leading"? She isn't being made the Queen, is she? There are still a bunch of other Admirals. Being a temporary advisor on warime decision making doesn't require a 20-year political career behind her, and Tali clearly has military experience and experience with the geth.
You know, the stuff that would actually matter during a war.

[HellBovine]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really that hard to just accept that they were looking for a replacement for Tali's father and Tali happened to be available at the time and if she's exiled she's merely an adviser?

I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

Nepotism and a lack of proven competence at leading, or even a history of significant leadership, aren't problems for replacing the highest levels of power?

That she'd quite after the Reaper War kind of misses the point that it's during the Reaper War the Quarians need the best leadership possible.

Do you even know what nepotism means?

"Lack of proven competence at leading"? She isn't being made the Queen, is she? There are still a bunch of other Admirals. Being a temporary advisor on warime decision making doesn't require a 20-year political career behind her, and Tali clearly has military experience and experience with the geth.
You know, the stuff that would actually matter during a war.

From what I've garnered from the spoilers, she doesn't even recieve authority over any portion of the fleet, with the military being led by Han'Gerrel and Koris leading the civilians.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Do you even know what nepotism means?

Favoritism granted to relatives without merit.

In this case, the daughter of the last admiral.

"Lack of proven competence at leading"? She isn't being made the Queen, is she?

No, she's being made a military officer atop numerous people who have been doing it longer than she's been an adult.

There are still a bunch of other Admirals. Being a temporary advisor on warime decision making doesn't require a 20-year political career behind her, and Tali clearly has military experience and experience with the geth.
You know, the stuff that would actually matter during a war.

You know who also has military experience and experience with the Geth? The Quarian military and those who have fought the Geth. Like Kal'Reegor. Who is actually a professional soldier.

Being a temporary advisor is not a justification for command rank, even if you do have other commanders. Tali does not have the claim to distinguish experience or knowledge or capability to justify such a rank.

[Troodon80]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Is it really that hard to just accept [...]

SWM, I am surprised at you asking a question like that. Even the codex can't be accepted by some. Debating about whether or not this should be accepted is a little pointless, some people will argue regardless of how much logic you bring into it.

Someone With Mass wrote...
I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

I know I've said it before, way-back-when, but I could see this happening; Tali becoming an admiral. To call what she says in ME2 foreshadowing is a bit of an understatement. However illogical it may seem to some that's the direction, and it is plausible since it was mentioned in ME2.

Plausible does not equal logical, however.

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Its still a stupid idea. You don't make someone a leader because they were related to the former and had some useful information unless you are in North Korea.

It may not be the most logical choice to some, but think of it this way:

People on both sides want different things; one side wants war, the other wants peace.

Now, you take into consideration how many "friends" (acquaintances or allies) she still has on the fleet, including both Han and Shala (assuming you didn't get her exiled), and neither Daro nor Zaal actually hate her.

Now, consider what the trial was all about, in reality. It was a farce, a political ploy, to further their own particular agendas at that time.

It is my opinion, when taking this into account, that Tali can be used as a banner, a figurehead, for political reasons among the other admirals. This, as I said, is not always for logical reasons, but it still happens. If I am honest, comparing it to North Korea is a bit over the top, I think.

Tali is not necessarily being promoted because she was the daughter of an admiral, though that likely does have something/quite a bit to do with it, she could simply be promoted due to others pushing for it. As it was said in ME2, some people were putting her name forward. Who better to have as a political ploy, advisor, or figurehead, than the person "who knows more about the geth than any other quarian alive."

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Nepotism and a lack of proven competence at leading, or even a history of significant leadership, aren't problems for replacing the highest levels of power?

That she'd quite after the Reaper War kind of misses the point that it's during the Reaper War the Quarians need the best leadership possible.

They have. All their admirals are there. There's nothing that says that Tali will make all the decisions by herself. 

No one said she would, but having other commanders or rank isn't basis to elevate someone past their capabilities.

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No one said she would, but having other commanders or rank isn't basis to elevate someone past their capabilities.

And they aren't trying to do that.

They're merely giving her the ability to be at their side and offer advice based on her knowledge (it's how Shepard comes into the picture too) when they're planning their approach.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No one said she would, but having other commanders or rank isn't basis to elevate someone past their capabilities.

And they aren't trying to do that.

That's exactly what they're doing.

They're merely giving her the ability to be at their side and offer advice based on her knowledge (it's how Shepard comes into the picture too) when they're planning their approach.

Since she can do that without a rank even if she's an exile, that argument falls on its face.

Tali doesn't need a promotion to be at their side. Even Admirals have aids.

[Troodon80]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Tali doesn't need a promotion to be at their side. Even Admirals have aids.

And those aids would look a lot better to other quarians, especially in a time of war, when they hold a position. It makes them look like they know what they are doing. The position itself is mostly irrelevant since she can't make any actual decisions that affect the fleet by herself.

I think people are taking this "position" far more seriously than they should be.

What if it was only to fill a spot that others would be arguing over, causing a split in the rest of the fleet over who should be an admiral. It's easier to accept the one that knows something about the enemy rather than fracturing the fleet over opinions in a time of war. At least it keeps others quiet until after the war. Then they can worry about who will actually take the position.

[Unschuld]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Tali doesn't need a promotion to be at their side. Even Admirals have aids.

Poor Quarians. The last thing they need is aids.

[Someone With Mass]

Not to mention that without a fifth admiral, they're an even number. That's not the ideal situation when you're deciding things with a democratic system.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:25 .

[Unschuld]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

edit: And I see I have been ninja'd by a similar joke. Well, great minds think alike, I suppose.

For great justice. 

[Someone With Mass]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Well, to be fair, it's not like Tali ends up having the deciding vote anyway.

True. They can still pull rank, but I think it's not really that important how she and Shepard can affect the outcome with mere titles, anyway.

She's there, she matters. It's good.

Haters gonna hate.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 janvier 2012 - 06:35 .