69153 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartanburger]

PhantomSpectre wrote...
You know, I don't remember exactly how it was, but I think that exiled Tali was called back to the fleet, but that she never was really pardoned or anything. That's why that whole "dirty secret" part in the text.

I know. I think that the leaked script was incomplete (big surprise) and had two different versions of it in it.

[Troodon80]

Unschuld wrote...
The process goes something like this:
Step 1: Black & white statement disregarding any other possible view as false
Step 2(a): Incomprehension of how anything other than personal viewpoint could be true
Step 2(: Hypocritical statement/NO U
Step 3: Insults, You're stupid, I'm right
Step 4: /ragequit

... I don't see Saphra posting. I hope I didn't make him ragequite or offend him in any way .

[Unschuld]

phonypapercut wrote...

I made no mention of details leading up to them being given the titles. You should probably read my post again, I tried to address the point you just raised.

I wasn't quoting you in order to refute what you said, albeit just expanding on it in a vain attempt that hopefully others would finally notice the point everyone is trying to make.

Troodon80 wrote...

... I don't see Saphra posting. I hope I didn't make him ragequite or offend him in any way .

Either that or it's reloading for another volley of step 2( or step 3.

Modifié par Unschuld, 09 janvier 2012 - 09:59 .

[Spartanburger]

phonypapercut wrote...
She's capable of being wrong, and has track record of doubting herself. Being one of five people to decide the future of her people and the geth isn't a useless title, and she's kidding herself if she believes it.

"Give me some ezzo and some scrap metal and i could have it making precision jumps"

Yup. Totally sounds like she's doubting herself there.

phonypapercut wrote...
I made no mention of details leading up to them being given the titles.

And we are addressing that oversight. It matters not what the position is that she gained. What matters is the circumstances in which she acquired it. That is what is similar to the Spectre status thing (read: similar, not exactly alike).

[PhantomSpectre]

Unschuld wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...
Its not like Shepard's trial being held on Earth; which still severely irritates me.

Because he's being prosecuted by the Alliance military which he still belongs to, and what better place than Earth, I guess?

As
for Tali, I'm really curious as to how they're going to make that
little reunion with Shep go, and possibly (hopefully) explain what
happened to her between Shepard being hauled off in cuffs and the reaper
invasion, from her perspective.

No direct spoilers though, please!

Well all I say is that according to leak, it's more than likely that you get your wish is some form.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really that hard to just accept that they were looking for a replacement for Tali's father and Tali happened to be available at the time and if she's exiled she's merely an adviser?

I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

Indeed. It seems that Tali being Admiral is just some political decision. Tali becomes Admiral just because of her knowledge of Geth and probably because others thought that she would favor the war against the Geth, thanks her not so welcoming attitude towards Geth in general. This was just a way to get more votes for war or at least I see it this way. 

Anyway it doesn't really matter if Tali becomes admiral or not as it seems that it doesn't matter at the end. Especially for Tali.

Modifié par PhantomSpectre, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:05 .

[HellBovine]

PhantomSpectre wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really that hard to just accept that they were looking for a replacement for Tali's father and Tali happened to be available at the time and if she's exiled she's merely an adviser?

I really don't see the big deal there. Especially when she said herself that she'll quit when it's over. Among other things that makes me think that she does not intend on keeping the admiral title for long.
It's just a perk with the job, nothing more.

Indeed. It seems that Tali being Admiral is just some political decision, which doesn't really matter at the end. Not even for Tali.

It makes a lot of sense that the admirals would want a less authoritative person to take the final admiral position before starting a war. They want to have someone with geth experience on their side who would give more weight to them stating that they have a chance at winning a war. They get someone without significant leadership experience who thus cannot question their decisions. They belive that Tali will be easily manipulated into furthering their own goals of war, belieiving her to be her father's daughter.

The other admirals do not want an equal, they want a subordinate who won't cause them to continue political strife at a time they believe they need to act.

Modifié par HellBovine, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:07 .

[hand-o_death547]

Unschuld wrote...

phonypapercut wrote...

I made no mention of details leading up to them being given the titles. You should probably read my post again, I tried to address the point you just raised.

I wasn't quoting you in order to refute what you said, albeit just expanding on it in a vain attempt that hopefully others would finally notice the point everyone is trying to make.

Troodon80 wrote...

... I don't see Saphra posting. I hope I didn't make him ragequite or offend him in any way .

Either that or it's reloading for another volley of step 2( or step 3.

I'm new to these forums, so I just gotta ask.  Is this guy like this in all the threads or just specific ones?  Because if he does it in all threads he reminds me of this guy on another forum that I occasionally get on haha.

[HellBovine]

*delete

Modifié par HellBovine, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:06 .

[PhantomSpectre]

hhh89 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Interesting how some people assume that Tali actively goes after an Admiralty position, as opposed to having it shoved on her.

In that case, she could've refused it.
Though I prefer to wait and see in the game how it will be handled.

You know, I do remember reading something from leak script, which gives you answer for "Why Tali didn't refuse the job, if it was shoved on her?"

[phonypapercut]

Spartanburger wrote...

"Give me some ezzo and some scrap metal and i could have it making precision jumps"

Yup. Totally sounds like she's doubting herself there.

She's certainly capable of being confident too. I suppose I should have specified, she seems to doubt herself in political or leadership roles.

Spartanburger wrote...

phonypapercut wrote...
I made no mention of details leading up to them being given the titles.

And we are addressing that oversight. It matters not what the position is that she gained. What matters is the circumstances in which she acquired it. That is what is similar to the Spectre status thing (read: similar,
not exactly alike).

What you quoted there was in response to the only other person defending the comparison, who is saying the opposite, that the circumstances don't matter, it's the position that's similar.

Modifié par phonypapercut, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:24 .

[Unschuld]

hand-o_death547 wrote...

I'm new to these forums, so I just gotta ask. Is this guy like this in all the threads or just specific ones? Because if he does it in all threads he reminds me of this guy on another forum that I occasionally get on haha.

The Saphra Dedan is a consistent and predictable creature. At home in its natural forum environment, it stalks its prey which consists of anything that disagrees with it. The reasons why it attacks, and the meaning of its existence is up for debate amongst the scholars of the BSN community. Some believe its behavior to be too irrational and exaggerated to be anything but a natural form of satire. Fortunately, though aggressive and vicious in its attacks, it is mostly harmless if left ignored.

themoaryouknow.jpeg

Modifié par Unschuld, 09 janvier 2012 - 10:26 .

[hand-o_death547]

Unschuld wrote...

hand-o_death547 wrote...

I'm new to these forums, so I just gotta ask. Is this guy like this in all the threads or just specific ones? Because if he does it in all threads he reminds me of this guy on another forum that I occasionally get on haha.

The Saphra Dedan is a consistent and predictable creature. At home in its natural forum environment, it stalks its prey which consists of anything that disagrees with it. The reasons why it attacks, and the meaning of its existence is up for debate amongst the scholars of the BSN community. Some believe its behavior to be too irrational and exaggerated to be anything but a natural form of satire. Fortunately, though aggressive and vicious in its attacks, it is mostly harmless if left ignored.

themoaryouknow.jpeg

Ahh quite like the creature that I mentioned he reminded me of on the socom.com forums.  He is called the Dirty Walter (that's his actuall screen name btw) and also stalks forums for countless hours, even going to a fan-made  forum that everyone who got sick of him on socom.com went to just to troll every now and again.

[BentOrgy]

Hmm... I wonder if the admirals were hoping that, considering she doesn't have much leader experience, they'd be able to use her like a puppet. Each Admiral agreed to place a well known and knowledgeable, yet young and inexperienced person in a position of power during a critical time to further their own cause's goal. Each hoping to manipulate/guilt Tali into rallying to their cause. It'd be like having an entire political party supporting you; considering how well known Tali is among the quarians.

Gerrel knows that Tali's killed legions (Heehee.) of geth; a common bond.

Koris (During the trial, depending on what you said.) believes that Tali could easily choose peace; a common bond,

Xen.... Is insane, that much is clear from the leaked script. Not exactly a common bond, but the insane tend to believe that everything will go according to plan in the end, so I doubt Xen's too worried about Tali, and her possible meddling.

Just an idea that popped into my head.

[Spartanburger]

phonypapercut wrote...

She's certainly capable of being confident too. I suppose I should have specified, she seems to doubt herself in political or leadership roles.

True.
I think that because we have only raw text in the leak and have no real way of hearing how she says the line we cannot infer whether she is being doubtful of herself or not (Generally you can tell by the emotion in the voice, assuming the VA is good. If it sounds more bitter then it's probably not her doubting herself and more something she's discovered through trial and error. If it sounds a little sad then it's probably her just doubting herself. We won't really know for sure until the game comes out.)

phonypapercut wrote...
What you quoted there was in response to the only other person defending the comparison, who is saying the opposite, that the circumstances don't matter, it's the position that's similar.

Hm. Perhaps my ability to communicate my ideas are worse than I thought.

I partially agree that it "IS the same in terms of a temporary, political move to apply a leadership/rank status" but would add that the position itself, official or not, is just a cover position to be shown to the public and of no real power. Like a fancy pet being strolled around. The public loves it and the owner can bestow all these titles of power on it but the owner still has the leash. (or something like that. I'm bad at analogies.)

[Unschuld]

PhantomSpectre wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...
Its not like Shepard's trial being held on Earth; which still severely irritates me.

Because he's being prosecuted by the Alliance military which he still belongs to, and what better place than Earth, I guess?

As
for Tali, I'm really curious as to how they're going to make that
little reunion with Shep go, and possibly (hopefully) explain what
happened to her between Shepard being hauled off in cuffs and the reaper
invasion, from her perspective.

No direct spoilers though, please!

Well all I say is that according to leak, it's more than likely that you get your wish is some form.

Ah, thank you! The vagueness of your post was just what I was hoping for too, lol (serious). Only two more months, hnnnnggg!!! 

Also, relevant to the current debate, it would be nice if she also speaks of her newly found "rank" with a bit of resentment, but you don't need to confirm that one. I'll find out when I see/hear it.

[hand-o_death547]

I think the admirals are going to use her as a puppet, it's kinda obvious. "Hey let's take this young girl who has little to no real leadership experience and make her an admiral". It all will go well though as long as I get to kill Xen.

[PhantomSpectre]

phonypapercut wrote...

I hate to agree with Saphra, but I don't see how Shepard's Spectre status in ME2 is comparable in the least to Tali being an Admiral.

The Spectre title meant absolutely nothing for Shepard in ME2, except for allowing him to tell that C-sec officer he was a current Spectre instead of a former one I guess.

Tali actually sits on the Admiralty board in ME3, if I understand the leaks correctly. And votes in a decision that overrules the conclave. That alone makes the position pretty far from just a title.

I think you're wrong about everything else though, and I wish I had the time right now to write out a proper critique of your posts over the last couple pages.

The connection between Shepard's Spectre status in ME2 and Tali admiral position in ME3 is that neither of them really matters.

Shep's obvious as there are only two moments, where Shep's spectre status had any effect in ME2. (First when Shep is helping Quarian on Citadel and second when Shep is interrogating Kelham, which requires quite high Paragon and Renegade points to get that option.)

Now you would think that Tali being Admiral would matter more and on paper that would be the case. However it seems that other Admirals doesn't really care what Tali says as for example her attempts to peaceful solution falls on deaf ears. And it's pretty much the same with everything else. Also the only time other Admirals seems to be listening Tali is only after Shep had come to help Quarians and even then only barely.

So, sure Tali's positions as Admiral could have meant something (same as Shep's spectre status), but in the end it seems that it didn't really matter. After all it does seems that Tali's admiral status was just political ploy without much real significance, especially when it comes to war between Geth/Quarian.

[Unschuld]

I don't *think* we'll have to kill Xen. If anything it seems more befitting, poetically(?), that one of her plans blows up in her face. The geth grabbing her and turning her into a husk on a nearby dragon's tooth? I'm down for that. I'll miss the voice though...

[hand-o_death547]

Unschuld wrote...

I don't *think* we'll have to kill Xen. If anything it seems more befitting, poetically(?), that one of her plans blows up in her face. The geth grabbing her and turning her into a husk on a nearby dragon's tooth? I'm down for that. I'll miss the voice though...

Her voice scares me straight to hell, it sounds like a robot.  I just think she's a bit of a nutjob and also (this can kinda be said of all Quarians though) she doesn't give a damn about anything except the quarians and would probably be the type who would try to use reapers to somehow control the geth or something like that.  Oh yeah and I just realized it's only 2 months till it's out, but it feels like 200 years.

[BentOrgy]

Unschuld wrote...

I don't *think* we'll have to kill Xen. If anything it seems more befitting, poetically(?), that one of her plans blows up in her face. The geth grabbing her and turning her into a husk on a nearby dragon's tooth? I'm down for that. I'll miss the voice though...

I don't get it; why is her voice so popular? I've seen posts like this a lot, its not a bad one, but it wasn't really increbile either.

Meh?

[mauro2222]

Unschuld wrote...

hand-o_death547 wrote...

I'm new to these forums, so I just gotta ask. Is this guy like this in all the threads or just specific ones? Because if he does it in all threads he reminds me of this guy on another forum that I occasionally get on haha.

The Saphra Dedan is a consistent and predictable creature. At home in its natural forum environment, it stalks its prey which consists of anything that disagrees with it. The reasons why it attacks, and the meaning of its existence is up for debate amongst the scholars of the BSN community. Some believe its behavior to be too irrational and exaggerated to be anything but a natural form of satire. Fortunately, though aggressive and vicious in its attacks, it is mostly harmless if left ignored.

themoaryouknow.jpeg

If you agree with it. The Saphra Deden turns out to be an incredibly docil and domestical creature. It just needs to be feed with T.I.M. pictures, and they can't be left alone in the house without their record of Daro's voice.

[Angmir]

Dear talimances I am in troubel i just got my new phone HTC Desire Z and I cant find any Tali wallpaper for it anyone knows any good one Tali Litho would be great

[Unschuld]

BentOrgy wrote...

[
I don't get it; why is her voice so popular? I've seen posts like this a lot, its not a bad one, but it wasn't really increbile either.

Meh?

Because it's Claudia Black, and a lot of users here are Farscape fans. Tali's voice is bubbly and "cute". Xen's voice is sultry and sexy (in a really arrogant way). I don't like her as a character (she's great, but one of those that you "love to hate") but her voice... mmmmmmm....

[PhantomSpectre]

BentOrgy wrote...

Hmm... I wonder if the admirals were hoping that, considering she doesn't have much leader experience, they'd be able to use her like a puppet. Each Admiral agreed to place a well known and knowledgeable, yet young and inexperienced person in a position of power during a critical time to further their own cause's goal. Each hoping to manipulate/guilt Tali into rallying to their cause. It'd be like having an entire political party supporting you; considering how well known Tali is among the quarians.

Gerrel knows that Tali's killed legions (Heehee.) of geth; a common bond.

Koris (During the trial, depending on what you said.) believes that Tali could easily choose peace; a common bond,

Xen.... Is insane, that much is clear from the leaked script. Not exactly a common bond, but the insane tend to believe that everything will go according to plan in the end, so I doubt Xen's too worried about Tali, and her possible meddling.

Just an idea that popped into my head.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if other Admirals would have thought using or wanting Tali to be some sort of puppet. I can especially see Gerrel wanting to use Tali.

Why? It seems that he might believe that she is like her father, which would mean a quite rapid supporter of the idea of getting homeworld back and even by force. Also I think that he might belive that the fact that Geth killed her father would make her want revenge or at least make her more easily to favor the war option. (Which is totally wrong as Tali had changed during her time on Normandy......... well romanced and "peaceful solution for Tali/Legion argument Tali at least.)

Now if Koris had heard of Tali's changed attitude and that she had worked with Legion (geth), which is unlikely, he might want to use Tali to get peaceful solution. Then again it doesn't really matter as Tali seems to want peaceful solution anyway.

Xen............ well she is just insane who wants to control Geth. But she also knows that best way to achive her goal is to side with warmongers as it gives her opportunity use and develop technology to achieve her goals. But she doesn't care Tali.

Raan........ well she was mystery in ME2, but it seems that she did favor the war in ME3. She could have thought that Tali might have favored the war after or something, thought most like Raan's reason for war are something totally different from everyone else.

[PhantomSpectre]

Unschuld wrote...

I don't *think* we'll have to kill Xen. If anything it seems more befitting, poetically(?), that one of her plans blows up in her face. The geth grabbing her and turning her into a husk on a nearby dragon's tooth? I'm down for that. I'll miss the voice though...

About killing Xen or not...................... well you see in two months.